178 réponses à ce sujet

[Ryzaki]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Shepard is always a Mary Sue in one form or another.

This. 

Shepard can constantly tell the council to kiss his ass yet they never do anything about it. Shepard can be the rudest bastard to EVERYONE yet he still gets offered quests and rewards. He can go around punching civilians and threatening them (like Conrad) yet he doesn't even get bad press for this! (the only one who gives you bad press is the reporter). Shepard can be the mega douche of mega douches and yet everything turns out just fine. Be a racist douche to Tali and Garrus in ME1? Doesn't matter they'll still help you and suppot you in ME2. Not recruit Garrus at all due to being a racist douche in ME1? Doesn't matter. Only consequence is you can't romance him. He'll still somehow trust you enough to give you a turian weapon though! Nevermind that you're working for at human terrorist organization! (the fact that he joins renegade Shepard at all (who didn't recruit him) is headdesk inducing. Tali still helps him with the sheidling and Garrus still gives him the Thannix. 

Realistic consequences in ME? HA! 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 13 juillet 2011 - 09:32 .

[Foolsfolly]

There was no way to foresee it would happen. There was no logical sense for it to happen. A Paragon wanted to keep the workers alive, they made that choice, and they paid the price - Zaeed's loyalty. Then it's suddenly refunded back to them.

To be honest though, this happens with Miranda and Legion as well.

When Miranda and Jack have their argument about nothing and you side with Jack you lose Miranda's loyalty. It's refunded whenever you talk to her next. Same with Legion.

The game doesn't want you to lose loyalty with people. And will generally go the extra mile to make sure everyone's loyal. The only person without this is Thane. Thane also has no spot in the Suicide mission for him (but with +50 weapon damage, the incisor rifle, and Heavy Warp he's perfect as a squad mate during the whole mission).

Failing Thane's mission is also stupidly easy. That mission's glitched. Sometimes it ends in failure for no discernible reason, or at least does for me on the Xbox.

[alperez]

laecraft wrote...

@alperez: The Council has Spectres working for them. Spectres are terrorists. They stand above the law and can do literally anything they want. No one holds them accountable. Saren blew up a facility which resulted in hundreds of deaths, and the Council was okay with it. They don't care as long as the task is done, the mission always comes first. How is Cerberus worse? They're exactly the same. That's why the Council can't stand Cerberus. Competition.

The difference is that the council are the galaxies authority, what they do is allowed because they make the laws, if you can't see why an organisation sanctioned by the highest authority in the galaxy is different than an organisation acting under no authority or scrutiny then i'm sorry your missing the point completely.

Saren did what he did and the council accepted it because they gave him the authority to do whatever was needed to get the job done, once they gave him that authority they have to accept his actions as their own. Cerberus do whatever they like regardless of the consequences without any oversight other than the whims of TIM and even then they go beyond what TIM may have wanted (pragia) without any consequence or action from TIM whatsoever.

The council can't stand Cerberus not because they are competition as you put it but because they are a terrorist organisation threatening galatic stability under no governments direct control. We are in the process of dealing with one of those organisations worldwide at the moment, this is no different than what the council would or should do in response to cerberus.

Cerberus are not humanities elected or military representives, they are not a democratically elected body pushing for a greater role for humanity in the galaxy but an organisation that wants Human supremacy over every other species regardless of the effect this might have. Once again we're dealing with an organisation at the moment who wants to push their agenda of their supremacy over everyones elses and look how governments are dealing with that organisation worldwide.

I know that Cerberus is working against the Reapers from ME2. I know that Cerberus is preparing to war from Retribution. They're researching Reaper tech and sharing the data with others. Their research is the only thing that made OP possible. Cerberus' efforts will give us a chance in the upcoming impossible war yet.

You know that according to TIM and according to Cerberus they have been working against the reapers and are preparing to fight them in the upcoming war. You also know from comments from certain devs that they are working with the reapers and are trying to kill Shepard, something has obviously changed and what you think you know isn't what you really should know.

Do you honestly believe it will be because of Cerberus efforts we will have a chance to win the war, are you really that deluded?

We will win because of Shepard and despite everything else, if thought it would be any different you've been playin a different game.

I get your a Cerberus loyalist and your clutching at straws to justify why everyone else is wrong and your right but seriously, if you thought this game was about cerberus you've been badly mistaken.

[Foolsfolly]

Massadonious1 wrote...

I'm thinking they should of just stuck a timer on that mission. If you can kill fast enough and get to Vido regardless, you can kill him, because he sure as hell wasn't impeded by Zaeed bringing the entire base down around him.

There shouldn't of even been workers that needed saving if he was as good at his job as he supposedly is/was.

It's completely weird that those workers couldn't escape or turn on the sprinkler system by themselves. But whatever.

At least it's not as bad as Bring Down the Sky. "Let me live to kill more innocents or save these three people!"

Three people? Really?

I want someone to do the same thing in ME3 only for there to be a Renegade Interrupt that has Shepard shoot the terrorist in the head as he's speaking. "Or I'll kill the--" Bang.

And a Paragon option to have the Normandy shoot the guy down. Seriously, one Batarian and Vido both escape via ships while I have the Normandy hovering overhead...unable to do anything.

[Kaiser Shepard]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Meanwhile, people with actual morals choose the Renegade option of revealing the evidence at Tali's trial... and get rewarded with a gameplay disadvantage for doing the right thing.

I don't think there is any gameplay disadvantage. I recall that Tali still unlocks her loyalty power. Though I might be worng. I've only gone down that path once.

I think it doesn't unlock, but that wasn't the disadvantage I was referring to. I was talking about unloyal Tali during the Suicide Mission, which is still workable, though.

I though loyalty powers only stayed unlocked if the squaddie in question became loyal, then lost their loyalty in a confrontation in which Shepard sided against them.

[alperez]

Saphra Deden wrote...

alperez wrote...

So now your argument is that we shouldn't accept the storyline we may be given because we don't like it or agree with it?

Well yes, pretty much. If the writers do a bad job they should be called on it. You must really hate movie and literary critics, huh?

Actually yes but thats a whole different argument.

I just make my own mind up and judge it for myself and don't let critics make my opinion for me, most critics don't like or rate what i do or feel the same way about things anyway, so why should i not hate them lol.

I'm all for calling out the writers if they've done a bad job or for disagreeing with how a story progress or how a characters arc may evolve. What i'm not for though is when something i disagree with or don't like is presented to me just ignoring every single pointer that this may have been where it was heading all along.

You don't like or agree with Cerberus being the bad guys or with TIm going after Shepard, you don't think there was any evidence that this was always going to be the outcome and that TIm may have been in the process of being indoctrinated from a long time ago or that something has happened since we last met him that makes it so they are the bad guys or indoctrinated.

That's you perogative, as its mine to disagree and to accept it or not.

[Ryzaki]

Foolsfolly wrote...
It's completely weird that those workers couldn't escape or turn on the sprinkler system by themselves. But whatever.

At least it's not as bad as Bring Down the Sky. "Let me live to kill more innocents or save these three people!"

Three people? Really?

I want someone to do the same thing in ME3 only for there to be a Renegade Interrupt that has Shepard shoot the terrorist in the head as he's speaking. "Or I'll kill the--" Bang.

And a Paragon option to have the Normandy shoot the guy down. Seriously, one Batarian and Vido both escape via ships while I have the Normandy hovering overhead...unable to do anything.

I think you can shoot Balak before he gives his final speech. At least I did. I sat there for a few minutes wondering why there wasn't a killing scene.  I thought the game glitched. XD

[Foolsfolly]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Shepard is always a Mary Sue in one form or another.

Let me just say this real quick.....all PCs in RPGs are Mary Sues. They literally can master any and all skills, generally do the most damage, are the best at whatever class they choose to be, and change everyone's lives everywhere.

[AlexMBrennan]

Sounds interesting - won't buy it though since the first three are waaaaay too heavy on gorn and this won't be any different.

[Ryzaki]

Foolsfolly wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Shepard is always a Mary Sue in one form or another.

Let me just say this real quick.....all PCs in RPGs are Mary Sues. They literally can master any and all skills, generally do the most damage, are the best at whatever class they choose to be, and change everyone's lives everywhere.

Nah. Hawke's not a Mary Sue.

...But Hawke just sucks. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 13 juillet 2011 - 09:41 .

[Someone With Mass]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...
But this isn't just about impressing a certain cute quarian for me, nor just Real's experiments: the friends and families of those stationed on the Alarei deserve to know the truth.Making Rael's research too politically volatile for anyone sane to touch would be a pro as well... but then theres crazy Admiral Morrigan.

The intimidate option is weak, though, and pretty much comes down to continuing to yell until you get what you want.

And Quole, the Flotilla getting Balkanized shouldn't be a bad thing at all: those stupid enough to fight the geth die, whereas those able to get over their petty grudges get to live and may even colonize a planet.

How's that a pro?

You'd just make it so the crew on the Alarei died in vain if the research can't be used.

Which is worse than not letting their families know, if you ask me.

[Foolsfolly]

You can wound, graze, and kill Balak in dialogue. But only after he blows up the hostages and you fight his army of batarians and bots.

My favorite Paragon playthrough had me standing there in horror....let people die now or have the weight of possibly 1,000s of innocents on my heart later?

I decided to kill Balak. I tore him down, wounded him, and brought a terrorist to justice. It was a great moment...great and sad. Best way to play that mission, IMHO.

[Ryzaki]

Foolsfolly wrote...

You can wound, graze, and kill Balak in dialogue. But only after he blows up the hostages and you fight his army of batarians and bots.

My favorite Paragon playthrough had me standing there in horror....let people die now or have the weight of possibly 1,000s of innocents on my heart later?

I decided to kill Balak. I tore him down, wounded him, and brought a terrorist to justice. It was a great moment...great and sad. Best way to play that mission, IMHO.

All my paragons did the same thing. I have them stand infront of the room looking at those corpses for a while offering a small moment of silence to them before he turns and leaves. So much more powerful that way. 

The letting them live route felt...cheap. 

[Foolsfolly]

Ryzaki wrote...

Foolsfolly wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Shepard is always a Mary Sue in one form or another.

Let me just say this real quick.....all PCs in RPGs are Mary Sues. They literally can master any and all skills, generally do the most damage, are the best at whatever class they choose to be, and change everyone's lives everywhere.

Nah. Hawke's not a Mary Sue.

...But Hawke just sucks. 

I can say the same of the game Hawke originates. :innocent:

That said, it appears that in the retelling at least Hawke's a Mary Sue. Cassandra thinks Hawke's hand is behind every action of the last decade.

[Ryzaki]

Foolsfolly wrote...
I can say the same of the game Hawke originates. :innocent:

That said, it appears that in the retelling at least Hawke's a Mary Sue. Cassandra thinks Hawke's hand is behind every action of the last decade.

Yeah too bad the man didn't match the legend. 

Though that does make me wanna see how hilariously Shepard's story is exaggerated. I'd die laughing if it was told by Conrad too. 

[Foolsfolly]

The letting them live route felt...cheap.

It's also for nothing. Three lives today..who knows how many lives lost tomorrow. And if you bring Balak in he can be questioned. He says he's government funded which means that was an act of war, which certainty the Council and the Alliance would like to hear about.

I keep hoping Bring Down the Sky will be referenced in ME3....but the fact that it's DLC means it's unlikely to be referenced.

[Kaiser Shepard]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...
But this isn't just about impressing a certain cute quarian for me, nor just Real's experiments: the friends and families of those stationed on the Alarei deserve to know the truth.Making Rael's research too politically volatile for anyone sane to touch would be a pro as well... but then theres crazy Admiral Morrigan.

The intimidate option is weak, though, and pretty much comes down to continuing to yell until you get what you want.

And Quole, the Flotilla getting Balkanized shouldn't be a bad thing at all: those stupid enough to fight the geth die, whereas those able to get over their petty grudges get to live and may even colonize a planet.

How's that a pro?

You'd just make it so the crew on the Alarei died in vain if the research can't be used.

Which is worse than not letting their families know, if you ask me.

Because - aside from the fact that it is wrong to experiment on sentient species - it will simply blow up in their face, again. The quarians have shown that they haven't learnt nothing from the hubris that cost them their planet, most of their race and a normal life for their descendants. Even worse: they haven't learnt anything ever since, being hell bent on repeating their mistake for a grudge they have no one to blame for but themselves.

If anything, they're Cerberus - as in ME's Team Rocket - on a racial scale.

[Ryzaki]

Foolsfolly wrote...
It's also for nothing. Three lives today..who knows how many lives lost tomorrow. And if you bring Balak in he can be questioned. He says he's government funded which means that was an act of war, which certainty the Council and the Alliance would like to hear about.

I keep hoping Bring Down the Sky will be referenced in ME3....but the fact that it's DLC means it's unlikely to be referenced.

Wait...you can bring him in? I always kill him. I wasn't aware there was another choice.  

So the Batarian gov't planned that? Ugh. Batarian planet is offically the last planet I'm saving from the Reapers. Gonna take my sweet time gettin there. 

[Someone With Mass]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...
Because - aside from the fact that it is wrong to experiment on sentient species - it will simply blow up in their face, again. The quarians have shown that they haven't learnt nothing from the hubris that cost them their planet, most of their race and a normal life for their descendants. Even worse: they haven't learnt anything ever since, being hell bent on repeating their mistake for a grudge they have no one to blame for but themselves.

If anything, they're Cerberus - as in ME's Team Rocket - on a racial scale.

And you know this...how?

And I guess it'd be all sorts of wrong to try and help them realize their mistake, like Shepard has done dozens of times before. Nope, just let them die out so nothing will be gained at all and make the whole deal a huge waste of time.

I think that's a better solution.

[Foolsfolly]

Ryzaki wrote...

Foolsfolly wrote...
It's also for nothing. Three lives today..who knows how many lives lost tomorrow. And if you bring Balak in he can be questioned. He says he's government funded which means that was an act of war, which certainty the Council and the Alliance would like to hear about.

I keep hoping Bring Down the Sky will be referenced in ME3....but the fact that it's DLC means it's unlikely to be referenced.

Wait...you can bring him in? I always kill him. I wasn't aware there was another choice.  

So the Batarian gov't planned that? Ugh. Batarian planet is offically the last planet I'm saving from the Reapers. Gonna take my sweet time gettin there. 

Yeah, you leave him for the Alliance. And he talks about some great Batarian Rebellion for the 'injustices' their people have suffered. Those injustices being the fact that they started a war, lost it, and the Council didn't give in to their demands.

Seriously, the only reason I'll ever save the batarian world is because I don't want more foot soldiers for the Reapers. If at all possibly I want to be the one who cracks that world in half.