583 réponses à ce sujet

[alex90c]

a) and some of these games have been bashed as well. Look at the backlash ME2 gets for its combat system being more shooter based.

and yet plenty of people love it, unlike the 4+ months of NON-STOP bashing DA2 has received on here and practically every site on the internet. besides, ME2 doesn't have stupid mangatard combat (no guys, don't shoot me for saying that, I'm using it interchangeably with awful/rubbish/garbage, w/e)

And DAII is not a Bioware RPG? LOL Its an RPG made by Bioware.

I was referring to my expectations of a Bioware RPG obviously. honestly, stop purposely being obtuse.

C) if you think that way, why the hell post on a DAII BOARD!!!!! If the game is such garbage, why waste your time.

the fact that I dislike the game means that I shouldn't post on its board? the fact that I am willing to point out the flaws of the game means I shouldnt post on the DA2 forum?

no, the point of my b*tching, whining and incessant vitriol (don't worry, i'm no "holier than thou", I know full well I can be extremely vitriolic in regards to DA2, I don't hide from that) is to keep awareness of the flaws in the hope that they're not repeated in DA3.

[In Exile]

tmp7704 wrote...
He is comparable in the areas which apply to the characters equally -- both Riordan and player/Alistair have to operate in country where the public is told the wardens are traitors and there's reward for capturing them. 

Except Riordan doesn't have the treaties, and he starts in a different place (I believe). 

The player/Alistair avoid getting captured but Riordan fails in this area. It can be argued that if he actually had the treaties, getting himself imprisoned would render him unable to use them, and his mission wouldn't even get to the point where the armies got gathered.

Or it could be argued that had he had the treaties, he would never have gone to Denerim at all, and instead raised an army and killed himself by flinging himself off a building again. He's a special kind of moron.

Another area of comparison is the fight in Denerim -- you have all three wardens there, but only one decides on a brilliant plan which results in discovering exactly how the gravity works. Again, it can be argued that even if Riordan had treaties and put the armies together, he'd ultimately end as splatter on Denerim pavement, the way he actually did.

Haha. I respond paragraph by paragraph, so I actually argue that prior to reading this.

This is discussing possible reasons of failure. But it doesn't change the fact ultimately the failure does take place, and the outcome is opposite of what the player's warden manages to achieve. Which shows plainly that what the player's character achieves isn't just something that could be done by every other warden.

Sure it does. Again, logically, gathering the armies != defeating the archdemon. 

I said that it was possible that someone who isn't the Warden could redo what the Warden does under different circumstances. That there are people who can't do this isn't even a counter-argument.

And if we really must get into these possible reasons, then using your own line of reasoning (that it's certain team composition that fails) it can be argued that the failure was caused by choosing that particular party instead of another more capable one, or in not coordinating their efforts well enough. Both these being something other than "being better at murdering things" -- the actual qualities of a leader.

If there's anything I think has no value, it's baseless speculation. And when I give those examples, I'm not giving thm any weight. I'm just saying I could invent a state of affairs that favours my argument as easily as you could invent one that favours yours, and that becasue I can do so it invalidates the attempt of speculation. 

[txgoldrush]

xkg wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

xkg wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

dealing with Anders is almost the exact same as dealing with Loghain, the only real difference was that he was a companion and not an antagonist. If you spare Loghain, Allistair leaves, if you spare Anders, Sebastian leaves. In fact Sebastian has a credible reason for leaving, Alistair just whines, pouts, and leaves failing to look at the big picture.

Hahaha. Always good laff on you. Your fanboism is beoynd any reason.

"Alistair just whines, pouts, and leaves failing to look at the big picture"

Maybe read this first :
http://dragonage.wik...dsmeet_Outcomes

So.....you can never have Loghian or Allistair in th eparty at the same time, just like you cannot have Sebastian and Anders in the smae party at the end.

He leaves your party, king or not, if Loghain is spared.

I'am not talking about them satying together in the party. I am talking about your ridiculous choice of words to prove your points.

"Alistair just whines, pouts, and leaves failing to look at the big picture"

Did you miss that part where he is not leaving just beacuse "he whine and can't see the big picture" but he bacame the KING.

If Becoming the king for you is the same as "failing to look at the big picture" then how can anyone take your arguments seriously.
lol

doesn't change the Landsmeet from being very sloppily written, he either gets to be king or becomes a wondering drunk, or is executed...it lacks subtlety and realism, unlike the Sebastian vs Anders choice.

He fails to look at the big picture regardless, even if he does become king.

[txgoldrush]

alex90c wrote...

a) and some of these games have been bashed as well. Look at the backlash ME2 gets for its combat system being more shooter based.

a) and yet plenty of people love it, unlike the 4+ months of NON-STOP bashing DA2 has received on here and practically every site on the internet. besides, ME2 doesn't have stupid mangatard combat (no guys, don't shoot me for saying that, I'm using it interchangeably with awful/rubbish/garbage, w/e)

And DAII is not a Bioware RPG? LOL Its an RPG made by Bioware.

I was referring to my expectations of a Bioware RPG obviously. honestly, stop purposely being obtuse.

C) if you think that way, why the hell post on a DAII BOARD!!!!! If the game is such garbage, why waste your time.

c) the fact that I dislike the game means that I shouldn't post on its board? the fact that I am willing to point out the flaws of the game means I shouldnt post on the DA2 forum?

no, the point of my b*tching, whining and incessant vitriol (don't worry, i'm no "holier than thou", I know full well I can be extremely vitriolic in regards to DA2, I don't hide from that) is to keep awareness of the flaws in the hope that they're not repeated in DA3.

a) And ME2 doesn't do waves on waves of enemies? doesn't put action over RPG elements (in fact its worse than DAII in this regard).?

no, you were changing the goal post. When is DAII not a Bioware RPG?

Fact is, being a Bioware RPG can also mean it follows the same formula with choices that don't matter until the last one, which is not a good thing. Its the Bioware cliche chart again.

If Bioware keeps reusing the same formula and not take risks, then they will encounter diminishing returns surely.

c) And many want Bioware to make a game just like DAO, which is a BAD thing. Many fans cannot accept that things can be different, they want more of the same and thats a bad thing. Always listening to your fans is not always a good thing.

Its more than just fixing DAII's flaws, its wanting to take steps back that is the problem with the DA fanbase.

[xkg]

You know what. All your speeches are colorful and all but that doesn't change the FACT that they are meaningless and foolish.
You wont convice me nor those 3.5 mil guys who bought DAO but dumped DA2.
So keep spreading your nonsense all you want. But what is the point ?

[alex90c]

a) And ME2 doesn't do waves on waves of enemies? doesn't put action over RPG elements (in fact its worse than DAII in this regard).?

did i mention waves? no.
did i mention action over RPG elements? no.

so how about you stop putting words in to my mouth and stick to answering JUST what i'm saying. the point i was ACTUALLY trying to make, is ME2 doesn't have stupid hyperactive, retarded animations and yet it's still action-y and fun. i do not need to see rogues turn their backs to an enemy and stab with their two daggers (wtf) to think WOW AWESOME!!!

no, you were changing the goal post. When is DAII not a Bioware RPG?

Fact is, being a Bioware RPG can also mean it follows the same formula with choices that don't matter until the last one, which is not a good thing. Its the Bioware cliche chart again.

If Bioware keeps reusing the same formula and not take risks, then they will encounter diminishing returns surely.

no, I wasn't changing the goal post ...

I never claimed DA2 wasn't a bioware RPG, I quite clearly stated when I play Bioware RPGs I expect stuff like awesome story, characters, whatever, not "DA2 isnt a bioware RPG"

and to be honest, if sticking with the cliche would have made DA2 something better than the complete joke it is now, then I would have been willing to put up with it one more time. yes, Bioware needs to branch away from gather allies defeat big bad, but the execution of their change in direction with DA2 sucked.

IT SUCKED HARD

c) And many want Bioware to make a game just like DAO, which is a BAD thing. Many fans cannot accept that things can be different, they want more of the same and thats a bad thing. Always listening to your fans is not always a good thing.

Its more than just fixing DAII's flaws, its wanting to take steps back that is the problem with the DA fanbase.

no, I believe the consensus is :

people loved DA:O thought it was a great game. if forced to choose between a game like DA2 and DA:O, many would pick DA:O any day.

BUT

and heres the big butt
since i like big butts and cannot lie

people are willing to accept change if its GOOD change. so for example

do NOT turn dragon age in to mass effect (ME is great, but seriously, keep the franchises separate, we don't need a hybrid)
do NOT turn dragon age in to a BUTTON AWESOME hack n' slash, it just insults peoples intelligence and alienates the fan base
do NOT limit companion interaction to twice per act

and a gazillion other things which im too lazy to write down

now Bioware does have the right idea in mind (moving forward), but the execution currently sucks ass. "moving forward" and "innovating" is not turning the dragon age franchise in to BUTTON AWESOME to get the call of duty crowd, it's ACTUALLY making the game BETTER, so that people who come in expecting an rpg get an rpg out of it, not some weird action adventure hybrid that doesn't even know what it is.

[FieryDove]

xkg wrote...

You know what. All your speeches are colorful and all but that doesn't change the FACT that they are meaningless and foolish.
You wont convice me nor those 3.5 mil guys who bought DAO but dumped DA2.
So keep spreading your nonsense all you want. But what is the point ?

The point is....fun.

Getting people all excited and tons of flamebait works every time.

I still think Hawke was nothing more than a spectator to someone's else's rise to power. He/she is not more powerful than even my wimpiest warden. imho...NO, FACT!!!!!! (joke)

[Persephone]

xkg wrote...

You know what. All your speeches are colorful and all but that doesn't change the FACT that they are meaningless and foolish.
You wont convice me nor those 3.5 mil guys who bought DAO but dumped DA2.

3.5 million people dumped DAII?

Evidence? Source?

Right. It isn't true.

[alex90c]

Persephone wrote...

xkg wrote...

You know what. All your speeches are colorful and all but that doesn't change the FACT that they are meaningless and foolish.
You wont convice me nor those 3.5 mil guys who bought DAO but dumped DA2.

3.5 million people dumped DAII?

Evidence? Source?

Right. It isn't true.

LA LA LA LA YOURE A DRAGON AGE 2 FAN YOUR OPINION IS WRONG



I'd like to see the evidence for that though, 5 mil got Origins and 1,5 mil got DA2 but it doesn't necessarily mean the 3,5 mil who didn't get it "dumped" DA2. they could have thought Origins sucked so wouldnt bother with DA2, completely forgot about the franchise or a whole load of other reasons.

Modifié par alex90c, 16 juillet 2011 - 10:52 .

[Persephone]

alex90c wrote...

Persephone wrote...

xkg wrote...

You know what. All your speeches are colorful and all but that doesn't change the FACT that they are meaningless and foolish.
You wont convice me nor those 3.5 mil guys who bought DAO but dumped DA2.

3.5 million people dumped DAII?

Evidence? Source?

Right. It isn't true.

LA LA LA LA YOURE A DRAGON AGE 2 FAN YOUR OPINION IS WRONG



I'd like to see the figure for that though, 5 mil got Origins and 1,5 mil got DA2 but it doesn't necessarily mean the 3,5 mil who didn't get it "dumped" DA2. they could have thought Origins sucked so wouldnt bother with DA2, completely forgot about the franchise or a whole load of other reasons.

5 mill did not get DAO. Nor did 1.5 mill get DAII.

Stop pulling numbers out of thin air/from ridiculous sources. (VGChartz)

[KnightofPhoenix]

alex90c wrote...
I'd like to see the evidence for that though, 5 mil got Origins and 1,5 mil got DA2 but it doesn't necessarily mean the 3,5 mil who didn't get it "dumped" DA2. they could have thought Origins sucked so wouldnt bother with DA2, completely forgot about the franchise or a whole load of other reasons.

Well apparently more than half didn't bother to finish Origins (IIRC). So I wonder why they'd want to try out DA2.

[xkg]

Persephone wrote...

alex90c wrote...

Persephone wrote...

xkg wrote...

You know what. All your speeches are colorful and all but that doesn't change the FACT that they are meaningless and foolish.
You wont convice me nor those 3.5 mil guys who bought DAO but dumped DA2.

3.5 million people dumped DAII?

Evidence? Source?

Right. It isn't true.

LA LA LA LA YOURE A DRAGON AGE 2 FAN YOUR OPINION IS WRONG



I'd like to see the figure for that though, 5 mil got Origins and 1,5 mil got DA2 but it doesn't necessarily mean the 3,5 mil who didn't get it "dumped" DA2. they could have thought Origins sucked so wouldnt bother with DA2, completely forgot about the franchise or a whole load of other reasons.

5 mill did not get DAO. Nor did 1.5 mill get DAII.

Stop pulling numbers out of thin air/from ridiculous sources. (VGChartz)

For me it isn't ridiculous for you it is. But it is not my problem it is yours.

[csfteeeer]

xkg wrote...

You know what. All your speeches are colorful and all but that doesn't change the FACT that they are meaningless and foolish.
You wont convice me nor those 3.5 mil guys who bought DAO but dumped DA2.
So keep spreading your nonsense all you want. But what is the point ?

just don't waste your time.
i was compelled to reply ("Alistair fails to see the big picture, king or not" what does this matter? he does, that's what matters,"Morrigan is Hardly Deep" Good GOD), but i remembered that arguing with someone like him, is little more than a waste of time.

[xkg]

alex90c wrote...

Persephone wrote...

xkg wrote...

You know what. All your speeches are colorful and all but that doesn't change the FACT that they are meaningless and foolish.
You wont convice me nor those 3.5 mil guys who bought DAO but dumped DA2.

3.5 million people dumped DAII?

Evidence? Source?

Right. It isn't true.

LA LA LA LA YOURE A DRAGON AGE 2 FAN YOUR OPINION IS WRONG



I'd like to see the evidence for that though, 5 mil got Origins and 1,5 mil got DA2 but it doesn't necessarily mean the 3,5 mil who didn't get it "dumped" DA2. they could have thought Origins sucked so wouldnt bother with DA2, completely forgot about the franchise or a whole load of other reasons.

hahah Yeah. But you know what I mean.
I just wanted to use that "colorful speech" OP is using.
My point was clear - about 3~3.5 mil more games sold (3x times more).

[Persephone]

xkg wrote...

Persephone wrote...

alex90c wrote...

Persephone wrote...

xkg wrote...

You know what. All your speeches are colorful and all but that doesn't change the FACT that they are meaningless and foolish.
You wont convice me nor those 3.5 mil guys who bought DAO but dumped DA2.

3.5 million people dumped DAII?

Evidence? Source?

Right. It isn't true.

LA LA LA LA YOURE A DRAGON AGE 2 FAN YOUR OPINION IS WRONG



I'd like to see the figure for that though, 5 mil got Origins and 1,5 mil got DA2 but it doesn't necessarily mean the 3,5 mil who didn't get it "dumped" DA2. they could have thought Origins sucked so wouldnt bother with DA2, completely forgot about the franchise or a whole load of other reasons.

5 mill did not get DAO. Nor did 1.5 mill get DAII.

Stop pulling numbers out of thin air/from ridiculous sources. (VGChartz)

For me it isn't ridiculous for you it is. But it is not my problem it is yours.

VGChartz is mocked for its inaccuracy, its lack of cited sources etc. all over the Internet....it's utter nonsense. Believe it as much as you like, if it pleases you. But don't sell these things as facts set in stone.

[xkg]

csfteeeer wrote...

xkg wrote...

You know what. All your speeches are colorful and all but that doesn't change the FACT that they are meaningless and foolish.
You wont convice me nor those 3.5 mil guys who bought DAO but dumped DA2.
So keep spreading your nonsense all you want. But what is the point ?

just don't waste your time.
i was compelled to reply ("Alistair fails to see the big picture, king or not" what does this matter? he does, that's what matters,"Morrigan is Hardly Deep" Good GOD), but i remembered that arguing with someone like him, is little more than a waste of time.

Yeah. I know all he says is utter garbage.
And now i think that OP is our dear friend - Raice. Same speech.
Only his problems with the game are legit and ours are "fluff" ... Sounds familiar ?  LOL

[Persephone]

xkg wrote...

alex90c wrote...

Persephone wrote...

xkg wrote...

You know what. All your speeches are colorful and all but that doesn't change the FACT that they are meaningless and foolish.
You wont convice me nor those 3.5 mil guys who bought DAO but dumped DA2.

3.5 million people dumped DAII?

Evidence? Source?

Right. It isn't true.

LA LA LA LA YOURE A DRAGON AGE 2 FAN YOUR OPINION IS WRONG



I'd like to see the evidence for that though, 5 mil got Origins and 1,5 mil got DA2 but it doesn't necessarily mean the 3,5 mil who didn't get it "dumped" DA2. they could have thought Origins sucked so wouldnt bother with DA2, completely forgot about the franchise or a whole load of other reasons.

hahah Yeah. But you know what I mean.
I just wanted to use that "colorful speech" OP is using.
My point was clear - about 3~3.5 mil more games sold (3x times more).

Again, source? (Backed up by official figures) Evidence?

There is none. Never mind that digital sales aren't listed anywhere.

And what do sales figures have to do with choices affecting/not affecting DAII's plot?:innocent:

[xkg]

Persephone wrote...

xkg wrote...

Persephone wrote...

alex90c wrote...

Persephone wrote...

xkg wrote...

You know what. All your speeches are colorful and all but that doesn't change the FACT that they are meaningless and foolish.
You wont convice me nor those 3.5 mil guys who bought DAO but dumped DA2.

3.5 million people dumped DAII?

Evidence? Source?

Right. It isn't true.

LA LA LA LA YOURE A DRAGON AGE 2 FAN YOUR OPINION IS WRONG



I'd like to see the figure for that though, 5 mil got Origins and 1,5 mil got DA2 but it doesn't necessarily mean the 3,5 mil who didn't get it "dumped" DA2. they could have thought Origins sucked so wouldnt bother with DA2, completely forgot about the franchise or a whole load of other reasons.

5 mill did not get DAO. Nor did 1.5 mill get DAII.

Stop pulling numbers out of thin air/from ridiculous sources. (VGChartz)

For me it isn't ridiculous for you it is. But it is not my problem it is yours.

VGChartz is mocked for its inaccuracy, its lack of cited sources etc. all over the Internet....it's utter nonsense. Believe it as much as you like, if it pleases you. But don't sell these things as facts set in stone.

Even if so - i can safely say that DAO sold 3x times more units. Why ?
Because methods to gather data for both games were identical.
Yeah but keep dreaming.

[Persephone]

xkg wrote...

csfteeeer wrote...

xkg wrote...

You know what. All your speeches are colorful and all but that doesn't change the FACT that they are meaningless and foolish.
You wont convice me nor those 3.5 mil guys who bought DAO but dumped DA2.
So keep spreading your nonsense all you want. But what is the point ?

just don't waste your time.
i was compelled to reply ("Alistair fails to see the big picture, king or not" what does this matter? he does, that's what matters,"Morrigan is Hardly Deep" Good GOD), but i remembered that arguing with someone like him, is little more than a waste of time.

Yeah. I know all he says is utter garbage.
And now i think that OP is our dear friend - Raice. Same speech.
Only his problems with the game are legit and ours are "fluff" ... Sounds familiar ?  LOL

I do not know the OP.

But it's down to personal insults now? (Heaven help the DAII fan daring to treat the Hater crowd like you treat the OP with everyone looking away)

classy!

[xkg]

Persephone wrote...

xkg wrote...

csfteeeer wrote...

xkg wrote...

You know what. All your speeches are colorful and all but that doesn't change the FACT that they are meaningless and foolish.
You wont convice me nor those 3.5 mil guys who bought DAO but dumped DA2.
So keep spreading your nonsense all you want. But what is the point ?

just don't waste your time.
i was compelled to reply ("Alistair fails to see the big picture, king or not" what does this matter? he does, that's what matters,"Morrigan is Hardly Deep" Good GOD), but i remembered that arguing with someone like him, is little more than a waste of time.

Yeah. I know all he says is utter garbage.
And now i think that OP is our dear friend - Raice. Same speech.
Only his problems with the game are legit and ours are "fluff" ... Sounds familiar ?  LOL

I do not know the OP.

But it's down to personal insults now? (Heaven help the DAII fan daring to treat the Hater crowd like you treat the OP with everyone looking away)

classy!

Yes that how it is. So ? What are you going to do about it ?

Report me if you like or BQ.

Modifié par xkg, 16 juillet 2011 - 11:08 .

[Persephone]

xkg wrote...

Persephone wrote...

xkg wrote...

Persephone wrote...

alex90c wrote...

Persephone wrote...

xkg wrote...

You know what. All your speeches are colorful and all but that doesn't change the FACT that they are meaningless and foolish.
You wont convice me nor those 3.5 mil guys who bought DAO but dumped DA2.

3.5 million people dumped DAII?

Evidence? Source?

Right. It isn't true.

LA LA LA LA YOURE A DRAGON AGE 2 FAN YOUR OPINION IS WRONG



I'd like to see the figure for that though, 5 mil got Origins and 1,5 mil got DA2 but it doesn't necessarily mean the 3,5 mil who didn't get it "dumped" DA2. they could have thought Origins sucked so wouldnt bother with DA2, completely forgot about the franchise or a whole load of other reasons.

5 mill did not get DAO. Nor did 1.5 mill get DAII.

Stop pulling numbers out of thin air/from ridiculous sources. (VGChartz)

For me it isn't ridiculous for you it is. But it is not my problem it is yours.

VGChartz is mocked for its inaccuracy, its lack of cited sources etc. all over the Internet....it's utter nonsense. Believe it as much as you like, if it pleases you. But don't sell these things as facts set in stone.

Even if so - i can safely say that DAO sold 3x times more units. Why ?
Because methods to gather data for both games were identical.
Yeah but keep dreaming.

Again, no. Inaccurate numbers on both games. Both are inaccurate nonsense. The only one knowing the actual figures is Bioware. And DAO did not sell 5 mill. All the numbers I read about vary between 3.00-3.5 million. Not 5. It also had almost 2 years, an expansion and DLC to boost sales. The comparison lacks coherence, fairness and accuracy. Will DAII ever outsell DAO? I doubt it. But the comparison is ludicrous at this point.

[Persephone]

xkg wrote...

Persephone wrote...

xkg wrote...

csfteeeer wrote...

xkg wrote...

You know what. All your speeches are colorful and all but that doesn't change the FACT that they are meaningless and foolish.
You wont convice me nor those 3.5 mil guys who bought DAO but dumped DA2.
So keep spreading your nonsense all you want. But what is the point ?

just don't waste your time.
i was compelled to reply ("Alistair fails to see the big picture, king or not" what does this matter? he does, that's what matters,"Morrigan is Hardly Deep" Good GOD), but i remembered that arguing with someone like him, is little more than a waste of time.

Yeah. I know all he says is utter garbage.
And now i think that OP is our dear friend - Raice. Same speech.
Only his problems with the game are legit and ours are "fluff" ... Sounds familiar ?  LOL

I do not know the OP.

But it's down to personal insults now? (Heaven help the DAII fan daring to treat the Hater crowd like you treat the OP with everyone looking away)

classy!

Yes that how it is. So ? What are you going to do about it ?

Report me if you like or BQ.

Wow. Bullying again? More repetetive than the DAII enviroments. Seriously. Stop trolling/flaming. Add to the discussion, if you love DAO so much, then try to represent its fandom as something other than a rude, condescending bully.

No. I will not report you. Not my style. Given you juvenile behavior, what good would it do? 

[xkg]

I dont care about your style really. Not my concern. Do what you want to do.
If you think that I am flaming/trolling report me , or if you don't want ... well it was nice talking to you (or maybe not).

[In Exile]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Well apparently more than half didn't bother to finish Origins (IIRC). So I wonder why they'd want to try out DA2.

This may be part of the reason why Bioware changed DA2's presentation and combat as they did. 

[tmp7704]

In Exile wrote...

This may be part of the reason why Bioware changed DA2's presentation and combat as they did. 

That was provided as major reasons for the change to how the game begins, at least. In any case if the data from achievement websites are anything to go by, it didn't work out to well -- the percentage of people who gave up on DA2 without finishing doesn't seem to differ much from DAO.

Modifié par tmp7704, 17 juillet 2011 - 12:14 .