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Hawke as the Warden's companion in DA3?


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#76
PrinceLionheart

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phoenixgoddess27 wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

What is with the Hawke hate in this thread? I understand that people weren't crazy about DA 2 as a game but why the Hawke hate?


Different opinions. Some like and some dislike.


Which still doesn't make any sense. Hawke is a PC, his personality is an extension of the players. This Hawke hatred is giving me some self-loathing vibes.

berelinde wrote...

Assuming that DA3 takes place sometime
shortly after Cassandra's interrogation of Varric, both Hawke and the
Warden will be over 30. While I would love the chance to play a more
mature protagonist, it doesn't really fit with the typical BioWare "20
and loving it" standard.


Commander Shepard is in his late 20(s) - early 30(s). :huh:

Modifié par PrinceLionheart, 15 juillet 2011 - 02:40 .


#77
phoenixgoddess27

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PrinceLionheart wrote...

Which still doesn't make any sense. Hawke is a PC, his personality is an extension of the players. This Hawke hatred is giving me some self-loathing vibes.


Yes, that makes total sense. Thank you. (sarcasm)
Our view on a character is based on our opinion. Does that mean we hate ourselves? No. That means we don't enjoy the character. That's our view, which is our opinion.
Some people enjoy Hawke. But I suppose that gives you some prideful vibes :whistle:

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

Modifié par phoenixgoddess27, 15 juillet 2011 - 03:53 .


#78
KotorEffect3

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phoenixgoddess27 wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

What is with the Hawke hate in this thread? I understand that people weren't crazy about DA 2 as a game but why the Hawke hate?


Different opinions. Some like and some dislike.


Which still doesn't explain the hate.  People don't just form opinions out of thin air.  Is it because they don't like the game, nastalgia for the warden, don't like the look of the default hawke, or something else?  Just doesn't make sense to me.

#79
Skaden

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KotorEffect3 wrote...

phoenixgoddess27 wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

What is with the Hawke hate in this thread? I understand that people weren't crazy about DA 2 as a game but why the Hawke hate?


Different opinions. Some like and some dislike.


Which still doesn't explain the hate.  People don't just form opinions out of thin air.  Is it because they don't like the game, nastalgia for the warden, don't like the look of the default hawke, or something else?  Just doesn't make sense to me.


My 3 main problems with Hawke are:

1. Default male Hawke looks like a jackass (doesn't help that his ugly mug is on the coverPosted Image)
2. Hawke never really seems to have the capacity to change or accomplish much besides a few things in act 2
3. Hawke's "origin" is both fixed and imho boring. Not a good combination, especially compared to DAO

Do I hate Hawke? Not really, at least not after I made a version of him that didn't suck. I simply don't find him as interesting as the Warden and don't feel that either of them should feature too directly in DA3 so no one's vision of either character is potentially crushed or retconned. Back on topic I feel there are too many variables for Hawke to be a companion of any real substance though I wouldn't mind a cameo and references to what both he and the Warden have done to affect Thedas. 

Modifié par Skaden, 15 juillet 2011 - 06:39 .


#80
phoenixgoddess27

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KotorEffect3 wrote...

Which still doesn't explain the hate.  People don't just form opinions out of thin air.  Is it because they don't like the game, nastalgia for the warden, don't like the look of the default hawke, or something else?  Just doesn't make sense to me.


People have been stating why all over the forum. All you have to do is search a few pages back, really. Around... page 4, I believe. The problem is, we've been stating why we don't like Hawke so much that people now ask us to stop. If you want, I can PM you threads stating why since this isn't really the thread for this conversation.

#81
Kondorr

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Well... I am all for a new protagonist with the option to recruit both, Hawke AND the Warden...
I doubt it would be a big problem to record all Hawke lines twice... once he is this **** and once he is a nice guy/gal...
I mean come on... if they want to impress us in the post DA2 debacle era... they should want to impress us... with real production values... (more variations, more sets).

So Hawke should be a recruit-able character in DA3... and he should be the way you made him...

I also think that The Warden needs to return.... especially after the Endgame of DA2... ok... they can screw up the voice-casting... they can screw up pretty much everything... but lets be honest...
this kind of feature has NEVER been done with Save game imports... time to get innovative for a change, not repetitive!

And they really need to impress us... us meaning these forums and the rest of the world!

#82
JaegerBane

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Skaden wrote...
Do I hate Hawke? Not really, at least not after I made a version of him that didn't suck. I simply don't find him as interesting as the Warden and don't feel that either of them should feature too directly in DA3 so no one's vision of either character is potentially crushed or retconned. Back on topic I feel there are too many variables for Hawke to be a companion of any real substance though I wouldn't mind a cameo and references to what both he and the Warden have done to affect Thedas. 


To be honest, I'd prefer to have my Warden back. I didn't really hate Hawke either, but since Hawke wasn't 'my' character, I couldn't really get into playing him.

Really, I think it would be best if they just *start over* with a new character in DA3. No matter what they do, they're not going to be able to elicit the same kind of general liking the Warden character ever generated, mainly because 'the Warden' was a blank slate that players took on the mantle of and guided him/her from humble beginnings to being the biggest badass in the world. Since a lot of Hawke's background has already been done to death he's just not going to satisfy that many people.

On the other hand, as of the last DLC, the Warden is now basically a God who splats ogres like they were flies. Unless Bioware really do have some mighty enemies in stock, playing him will be like playing an ME2 Adept on Casual.

#83
dewayne31

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If anything I think we'll play hawke again or new character. but think it would be hard to bring warden back. hawke so much. i'llgo out and say hawke will be mc in da3. i'm 98% certain

#84
Tellervo

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I would love to, at the end of the franchise, have The Ultimate Party of Ultimate Destiny. It would make up for any other BS that occurred in the series.

#85
Fortlowe

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I was kind of hoping Hawke would be the antagonist in DA3 or vice versa, depending on your choices in DA2. Still possible, I guess.

#86
Phaffner

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I would far rather see the return of my warden as the main character in DA3 then Hawke. And for those that say the wardens story is done after the defeat of the arch demon. The same can be said about Hawke her/his story ended when they killed the leaders of the circle and the templars there, then he/she took off running into hiding. The Wardens life and story no more ended after the arch demons death then did Hawkes after the fall of the chantry in Kairkwall. But I had far more to do with making the warden what she was then with Hawke in DA2.

#87
KotorEffect3

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JaegerBane wrote...

Skaden wrote...
Do I hate Hawke? Not really, at least not after I made a version of him that didn't suck. I simply don't find him as interesting as the Warden and don't feel that either of them should feature too directly in DA3 so no one's vision of either character is potentially crushed or retconned. Back on topic I feel there are too many variables for Hawke to be a companion of any real substance though I wouldn't mind a cameo and references to what both he and the Warden have done to affect Thedas. 


To be honest, I'd prefer to have my Warden back. I didn't really hate Hawke either, but since Hawke wasn't 'my' character, I couldn't really get into playing him.

Really, I think it would be best if they just *start over* with a new character in DA3. No matter what they do, they're not going to be able to elicit the same kind of general liking the Warden character ever generated, mainly because 'the Warden' was a blank slate that players took on the mantle of and guided him/her from humble beginnings to being the biggest badass in the world. Since a lot of Hawke's background has already been done to death he's just not going to satisfy that many people.

On the other hand, as of the last DLC, the Warden is now basically a God who splats ogres like they were flies. Unless Bioware really do have some mighty enemies in stock, playing him will be like playing an ME2 Adept on Casual.



While I agree that one of the appeals to the warden was they could be just about anybody and it was the player who defined them the warden is kind of the exception in the bioware games I have played rather than the rule.  In the bioware games I have played the protaganist already had an established background like Hawke.  Revan and Commander Shepard for example.  The problem isn't Hawke's background. 

As far as DA 3 goes I am fine with being Hawke again or a new protaganist all together,  I would even love it if it were DAO style and you could play as different races (but I am not expecting that).  As far as the Warden goes his story is done, let him/her rest.

#88
Lord Issa

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The Warden was probably the best self-insert character EVER. The dialogue choices were fantastic, and even if he did appear like a mannequin every now and then, he was MY mannequin. He really made me like him, even if he was, to all intents and purposes, me. Basically he was awesome. The only reason I don't want him to show up in DA3 is they probably won't do his awesomeness justice.

Either that or they'll give him a bloodstained nose and a conversation wheel. Hawke was cool, don't get me wrong, but he wasn't the Warden. (or Revan or Shepard for that matter)

Even if he isn't playable in DA3, him and Morrigan better get some closure, and a happy ending. Yes, I'm a Warden fanboy.

Modifié par Lord Issa, 16 juillet 2011 - 09:07 .


#89
JaegerBane

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KotorEffect3 wrote...

While I agree that one of the appeals to the warden was they could be just about anybody and it was the player who defined them the warden is kind of the exception in the bioware games I have played rather than the rule.  In the bioware games I have played the protaganist already had an established background like Hawke.  Revan and Commander Shepard for example.  The problem isn't Hawke's background. 


Hawke is nothing like Revan and Shepard. For one thing, Revan's background is never really mentioned, he's an amnesiac character - virtually the only thing you know about him was that he was a former sith and a badass. That is, to all intents and purposes, a blank slate  - the only difference being that it is Revan's second shot at life, while
the Warden is on his first.

I don't really know how you can equate him with Shepard, either - Shepard can be pretty much anything from a former gangster to engineering prodigy, he can have family that serve as officers in the Alliance or he can be pursued by criminals he used to run with. Simply put, his background is modifiable, and most importantly, plays little part in his adventures. In fact, aside from the fact he's voiced, I don't really understand what similarity you seen in Hawke with shep at all.

Hawke, on the other hand, is always going to be refugee from Lothering with a sibling and a mother, working his way up. His family and his circumstance shape his situation constantly through the game. In other words, his background is far more overt, and you can't get away from it, which automatically restricts how much player input goes into him.

The same goes for the Bhaalspawn and his vague background.

In essence, it is *Hawke* who is the general exception.

As far as the Warden goes his story is done, let him/her rest.


Well, this is really just a bald statement. It doesn't have any justification behind it whatsoever, so I'm afraid that it doesn't cut it for a reason for the Warden to be retired.

Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't necessarily mind if the Warden was allowed to drift off into legend, but discounting him for further games just because he completed his quest is blatantly silly. It's like claiming Luke's story in Star Wars was done with Return of the Jedi. There is *plenty* of material to keep the story going if it was so chosen to do so.

Modifié par JaegerBane, 16 juillet 2011 - 11:09 .


#90
retypeNick

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Grand story divided in 3 simultaneous paths, which will then combine in the end and cross multiple times between. You play Hawke(+ Isbella & comps) in one, Warden( + leliane & comps) in one, and Morrigans child(+ new companions) in one. And you can play them all in one party when the story gets to merging part :)

So you combine previous stories games to one + add finale, keep love stories, and have a grand ending to saga.

Modifié par retypeNick, 16 juillet 2011 - 11:17 .


#91
xkg

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retypeNick wrote...

Grand story divided in 3 simultaneous paths, which will then combine in the end and cross multiple times between. You play Hawke(+ Isbella & comps) in one, Warden( + leliane & comps) in one, and Morrigans child(+ new companions) in one. And you can play them all in one party when the story gets to merging part :)

So you combine previous stories games to one + add finale, keep love stories, and have a grand ending to saga.


But this gameplay type is best suited for Adventure games. That wouldn't work for RPG. At least for me.

#92
Jerrybnsn

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Companion? Heck no, I want my Warden in DA3 to make a quick stop in Kirkwall just to kick Hawk's ass all the way from Hightown to Lowtown and In-Betweentown.

#93
Jerrybnsn

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csfteeeer wrote...

In Exile wrote...

, you'll find the fanbase (independent of DA2) is very split on whether Bioware should destroy the character of the Warden even more by forcing the Warden to be a protagonist.


not really.

the feelings for DA2 are rather very mixed here, as you can tell by seeing how there are many people who prefer DA2 or put it on par with Origins(you won't find this many supporters of the game in practially any other place), even the people who prefer Origins still outnumbers the ones who don't.



A lot of those that posted they didn't like DA2 haven't posted here in months.  And considering that there is roughly 3.5 million people out there that own Origins but didn't purchase DA2, I say the anti-DA2 crowd is 3x larger than the pro-DA2.

#94
Chari

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In fact, I love this idea. I do not mind seeing Hawke as COMANION. He/She is not badass enough to be new hero. And Gw YES YES YES sronger and better than Hawke. So being a secondary character like companion is fine for me. Espesially MORTAL companion. Wanna kill at least ONE Hawke :3

#95
FaeQueenCory

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I would love this, but my Warden is an Amell and I think the whole adventuring-with-family thing is fun...

As to one of the OP's question/statement/imaginings: I think it would be easier to make Hawke an NPC rather than have the Warden be an NPC, simply because there are SO MANY different possibilities of the Warden, it would be rude to only allow for some of them to be "canonized" (used loosely). It would be a LOT simpler to have a dual import, one for your Warden (and then take him or her to the character creation screen, similar to how importing a character from the Character Creator works) and one for your Hawke's personality and choices (similar how the Origins import works in DA2).

#96
KotorEffect3

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JaegerBane wrote...

As far as the Warden goes his story is done, let him/her rest.


Well, this is really just a bald statement. It doesn't have any justification behind it whatsoever, so I'm afraid that it doesn't cut it for a reason for the Warden to be retired.

Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't necessarily mind if the Warden was allowed to drift off into legend, but discounting him for further games just because he completed his quest is blatantly silly. It's like claiming Luke's story in Star Wars was done with Return of the Jedi. There is *plenty* of material to keep the story going if it was so chosen to do so.




The main purpose of the Grey Wardens is to fight darkspawn, yes in DAO and DAA our Warden was doing more than just fighting darkspawn but everything they were doing was connected back to their fight against darkspawn.  Don't get me wrong I loved playing as the warden but there is more in Thedas going on than just stuff involving darkspawn, not that I  think the warden's and darkspawn shouldn't always be a part of DA games but you are kind of limiting yourself if you just play as a warden every single time.

Modifié par KotorEffect3, 17 juillet 2011 - 01:10 .


#97
KotorEffect3

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[quote]JaegerBane wrote...

[quote]KotorEffect3 wrote...

While I agree that one of the appeals to the warden was they could be just about anybody and it was the player who defined them the warden is kind of the exception in the bioware games I have played rather than the rule.  In the bioware games I have played the protaganist already had an established background like Hawke.  Revan and Commander Shepard for example.  The problem isn't Hawke's background. 
[/quote]

Hawke is nothing like Revan and Shepard. For one thing, Revan's background is never really mentioned, he's an amnesiac character - virtually the only thing you know about him was that he was a former sith and a badass. That is, to all intents and purposes, a blank slate  - the only difference being that it is Revan's second shot at life, while
the Warden is on his first

I don't really know how you can equate him with Shepard, either - Shepard can be pretty much anything from a former gangster to engineering prodigy, he can have family that serve as officers in the Alliance or he can be pursued by criminals he used to run with. Simply put, his background is modifiable, and most importantly, plays little part in his adventures. In fact, aside from the fact he's voiced, I don't really understand what similarity you seen in Hawke with shep at all.

Hawke, on the other hand, is always going to be refugee from Lothering with a sibling and a mother, working his way up. His family and his circumstance shape his situation constantly through the game. In other words, his background is far more overt, and you can't get away from it, which automatically restricts how much player input goes into him.

The same goes for the Bhaalspawn and his vague background.

In essence, it is *Hawke* who is the general exception.[quote]

We know that Revan is an ex-jedi turned Sith Lord who was betrayed by Malak and lost his memories.   Background seems pretty straightforward and written in stone.  What happens afterwards is up to the player.  As far as Shepard goes his background varies but he is still an elite N7 operative second in command on the Normandy when ME 1 starts.  Yes his/her backgrounds are more varied but at the end of the day he is still a fairly pre/defined character and no matter how he/she is played there are certain characteristics that all Shepard's seem to have.   Most of my Shepard's  have felt very similar to me and I have played paragon, renegade, in between, as well as male and female.  With that said Mass Effect is my favorite gaming series ever so if anything I would have a bias toward's Shepard over all the other bioware protagonists.  Hawke may not vary but playing as a mage hawke does give you a slightly different perspective than a warrior/rogue hawke it may be slight but it is there.  Personaly I don't mind if Hawke is the protaginist in DA 3 and it would actualy make alot of sense to me if he/she was at least more so than the Warden since Hawke is involved more in political upheavel and the focus of the series has shifted away from Darkspawn to the politics of Thedas.

Modifié par KotorEffect3, 17 juillet 2011 - 01:26 .


#98
Theagg

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JaegerBane wrote...

Really, I think it would be best if they just *start over* with a new character in DA3. No matter what they do, they're not going to be able to elicit the same kind of general liking the Warden character ever generated, mainly because 'the Warden' was a blank slate that players took on the mantle of and guided him/her from humble beginnings to being the biggest badass in the world. Since a lot of Hawke's background has already been done to death he's just not going to satisfy that many people.


All other things aside and yes, I did enjoy playing my warden too, the warden was never a "blank slate". He or she was simply one of 6 available predfined and packaged characters.

And since I have little interest in playing as a dwarf or elf, that reduced the packages available down to two in my playthrough.(Human noble vs human magi). Just one more choice than DA2.

A true blank slate starting state for a PC would be me deciding their origin in its entirety. Not being given a choice to pick from 6 fixed ones.

So Hawke starting off predefined is not a negative issue (and well, other games quoted as examples on here do even worse in that respect, with a rigid, fixed, single male character as your only choice)

#99
FaeQueenCory

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damn misfire:wizard:

Modifié par FaeQueenCory, 17 juillet 2011 - 02:09 .


#100
AstoundingArcaneArcher

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Didn't Bioware state that the Warden's tale ended when he/she sank the blade into the Archdemon?

Little problem there. I'm up for a new character in DA3, maybe seeing the Warden's and Hawke's tale interwoven together and the looses ends being tied up.