13 réponses à ce sujet

[Mitre7]

 So  I was really enjoying playing through the campaign for the first time with a sorc, when i get to level 6.  Obviously it's time to finally get haste.  I looked at the spell details in disbelief as there isn't a bonus to casting speed anymore?  wtf?!?   So i guess after thinking about it, it makes sense for nwn2 since there are more companions and a sorc is not needed to solo things as easily.  However i feel this completely ruins the spell and makes spellcasters absolutely worthless.  

Since it is the compaign, does anybody know a hack  to download that returns haste to the good old days of decreasing casting speed?  If not, does anybody know how to edit the spell from the toolset to implement this feature. 

I don't expect everyone to understand, but ive spent two days searching for this feature and have lost all motivation to continue with this game. 

-Thanks!

[kamal_]

What you are looking for is the Quicken Spell feat.

Modifié par kamal_, 12 juillet 2011 - 06:48 .

[Arkalezth]

Take Quicken Spell. I've never seen Haste doing what you describe, though.

And saying that it makes spellcasters absolutely worthless, well...

[painofdungeoneternal]

Mitre7 wrote...

 So  I was really enjoying playing through the campaign for the first time with a sorc, when i get to level 6.  Obviously it's time to finally get haste.  I looked at the spell details in disbelief as there isn't a bonus to casting speed anymore?  wtf?!?   So i guess after thinking about it, it makes sense for nwn2 since there are more companions and a sorc is not needed to solo things as easily.  However i feel this completely ruins the spell and makes spellcasters absolutely worthless.  

Since it is the compaign, does anybody know a hack  to download that returns haste to the good old days of decreasing casting speed?  If not, does anybody know how to edit the spell from the toolset to implement this feature. 

I don't expect everyone to understand, but ive spent two days searching for this feature and have lost all motivation to continue with this game. 

-Thanks!

Have you actually read the haste description? which has this line This effect is not cumulative with similar effects, such as that provided by a weapon of speed, nor does it actually grant an extra action, so you can’t use it to cast a second spell or otherwise take an extra action in the round. Haste is not supposed to boost casters like that, it's supposed to improve movement and give you more attacks, really it's a boost for melee types.

The issue is that if you can cast spells twice as fast, well that doubles a casters power, and anything that doubles a spellcasters power is not a 3rd level spell, really it would be an epic level spell with some costs involved. 

The "power" to cast faster is supposed to come from feats, metamagic called quicken or the epic feats for auto quicken. In NWN1 there was an error with this, which made quicken metamagic entirely useless. The new rules split the power of haste and quicken so they each provide value and are worth taking.

If the casting at double speed is really important to you, i'd suggest making a magic item or cheat moddding your character to give yourself autoquicken feats. The epic feats "auto quicken 1-9" are what you want. Since they are so powerful they are one per spell level and you can only manage 4 of them by epic level normally. ( One of the best PVP casters i knew did this ), But if you are cheating them in there is no limit, it's your own game so go for it.

If you did an extraordinary effort, you probably could make it so you get the feats when you do haste, and add the feats to all the items that give you haste, etc, but it's an awful lot of work to reimplement a bug you liked when there is a way to get the same effect by making sure you get the quicken feats.

You will probably find though, if you give NWN2 a chance, the rules are much better thought out. For the most part you are not losing much and you are gaining a lot more options, it's just in different places and will take you a while to get used to it.

Modifié par painofdungeoneternal, 12 juillet 2011 - 11:47 .

[Arkalezth]

Did Haste work as the OP describe in NWN1? Haven't played for a long time.

Improved Alacrity did that in BG2, and it was an epic spell.

[kevL]

Arkalezth wrote...

Did Haste work as the OP describe in NWN1? Haven't played for a long time.

Yes. Cast 2 spells / rd.

like the OP, i was a bit miffed .. no worries tho

[Haplose]

Yes it did. I actually believe that was correct according to DnD 3.0 edition ruleset.

Then you could cast a third spell per round with Quicken (Free Action). The implementation of Quicken was wrong in NWN though, and Quicken was largely obsolete with Haste.

Modifié par Haplose, 13 juillet 2011 - 06:00 .

[Arkalezth]

Yeah, I seem to remember it now.

[The Fred]

Mitre7 wrote...
However i feel this completely ruins the spell and makes spellcasters absolutely worthless.  
...
and have lost all motivation to continue with this game.

Ouch. Like, Haste is not as good as it was, but it's still powerful. It lets you move a lot faster, it gives you a bonus to AC, AND, most importantly, it's not just for you. It also affects all your allies, so they can attack more often.

You could probably do what you wanted by having the spell add the Automatic Quicken spells to your character temporarily (probably as bonus feats applied to a "creature skin") but it seems like a massive cheat to me. Those feats are Epic level for a reason, just like they nerfed Haste for a reason. What keeps caster power in check is not how many spells they can cast, it's how frequently they can cast them, otherwise the Warlock would be way overpowered.

[Haplose]

On the positive side, like has been mentioned, Haste was changed from single-target to a party-wide buff.

Plus, if you install Kaedrin's pack, the Swiftblade PrC lets you get some sick benefits from Haste.

And I definately wouldn't call spellcasters worthless in NWN2. If anything they seem more versatile and stronger then ever. Even moreso that now they got PrCs that actually work properly and increase their spell levels. Ranged touch attack spells finally work. And NWN2 brought it's fair share of unbalanced spells as well (like Avasculate or Shadow Simulacrum for example... default implementation of the lowly Mirror Image is pretty bad as well).

Modifié par Haplose, 13 juillet 2011 - 12:52 .

[The Fred]

Yeah, if all spellcasters needed one specific spell to be worthwhile, the balance in the game would suck.

[Mitre7]

Hmm good information, thank you. Sorry if I sounded cranky, was just a little frustrated. I assume it's just because it's my first time transitioning from nwn1 and haven't had the time or experience to discover the new strong points of the casters in nwn2. Back in nwn1 you kind of had to solo stuff more so than now.

I'm confused at one mechanic of the campaign though. It seems odd that every time there's a conversation before a fight, they all attack my main first. I'm running around until my tanks can shake it off of me, and finally when i can actually do something, I maybe get one spell off before my tanks have killed everyone, i.e. makes me feel like my caster is worthless. Maybe it's just because i'm at a low level still.

[painofdungeoneternal]

Yeah OC has issues with what is really a "story" issue. Not really the game itself, but they kind of force you into every fight the same way with a debuff and forcing you into a given position for their cutscene movie which make the knight captain a front line fighter. This is the only module where it's that bad, but then it's ridiculously easy as well with all the items ( and the sword turns you into a front line fighter as well ).

Kaldor Silverwand did an OC makeover which does help things, but i don't think you can really fix the issue without revamping the story and modules completely.

Spells like ethereal, invisibility and the like should help give you time to position your people and break any targeting. There are things like stone body, stone skin, etc which also are useful.

[Arkalezth]

Use long-lasting defensive spells. Mage Armor, Shield, Mirror Image, Ghostly Visage are all low level and last for 1 minute/level at least.