202 réponses à ce sujet

[ThePwener]

Luc0s wrote...

A real war-hero would help the Turians, save the Ascention and then as soon as the arms open, move towards Sovereign (together with what's left of the Turian fleet).

Yeah, too bad that sacrificing 5th Fleet ships lowered your chances of SAVING THE FREAKING GALAXY!!!!! Seriously, how can people forget that!!!!

[ThePwener]

Balances out? Jesus Christ. In real life, all Paragons would have doomed the galaxy. I know it's just a game, but I prefer to be realistic with my playthrough. I'll reserve my "happy ending" for ME3.... hopefully.

[S.A.K]

I found some people to be more friendly towards Shepard when I saved the council. So I saved the council in my canon play through. I Hope I didn't screw up!

[ThePwener]

Im Commander Shepard and I saved the council well knowing the risk of ending all intelligent life in the galaxy and dooming countless more cycles just so people would be firendly towards me.

http://t1.gstatic.co...pewiR9KUpVQ&t=1

Have you any idea how much of a douchebag move that is?

Modifié par ThePwener, 15 juillet 2011 - 03:44 .

[marshalleck]

Luc0s wrote...

ThePwener wrote...

Balances out? Jesus Christ. In real life, all Paragons would have doomed the galaxy. I know it's just a game, but I prefer to be realistic with my playthrough. I'll reserve my "happy ending" for ME3.... hopefully.

No, you're all wrong. ALL WRONG.

Again, LOOK AT THE BIGGER PICTURE. You sacrifice a few Alliance, but you save NOT ONLY the DA but ALSO the Turian fleet that protected the DA!

Seriously, STOP being so willful ignorant and realize that the Renegade choice is NOT a logical choice, UNLESS you want human dominance, that's the ONLY reason to hold back the Alliance fleet.

If you had any understanding of the tactical value of dreadnoughts in ME you'd realize that saving the DA is a poor tactical decision, considering the circumstances. 

A) Saving the Council at that moment will do nothing to aid the immediate efforts against Sovereign, because
The DA was already badly damaged and effectively incapable of fighting, because
C) It got its ass kicked by geth cruisers, because dreadnoughts (DA included) are designed to sit many kilometers away from combat and snipe at other dreadnoughts or stationary targets with their main guns, not engage in close-quarters combat where it can't maneuver adequately to bring firepower to bear on a target.

Dreadnoughts are vastly overrated on these boards. Conventional warfare in ME is basically two huge guys standing in place slugging each other in the face until one passes out. If that's your idea of tactics, well...

Modifié par marshalleck, 15 juillet 2011 - 03:48 .

[Lucifer_Cheney]

You're dammed if you do ("Ah yes, Reapers"), or dammed if you don't (Udina is still alive right?). The only response is to go all Founding Fathers on the situation and declare our Independence from the council's stupidity. Besides, I doubt the alien or human-led council races will help Shep galvanize the forces needed to defeat the Reapers.

[ThePwener]

Frankly, threads like these demostrate how screwed we'd be if real military leaders thought like they're Shepards.

Modifié par ThePwener, 15 juillet 2011 - 03:52 .

[marshalleck]

Wait, I have to stop you right there. How is Udina being alive a bad thing? The guy is an awesome and well-written character, as evidenced by how many people get their panties in a twist about him.

[Lucifer_Cheney]

Udina doesn't believe in the Reaper threat any more than the alien council members do (or did if you killed them). I haven't read any of the books, so if Udina has wised up, then I apologize. Short of that, he is no different than the alien council in that regard.

[marshalleck]

Luc0s wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

Luc0s wrote...

ThePwener wrote...

Balances out? Jesus Christ. In real life, all Paragons would have doomed the galaxy. I know it's just a game, but I prefer to be realistic with my playthrough. I'll reserve my "happy ending" for ME3.... hopefully.

No, you're all wrong. ALL WRONG.

Again, LOOK AT THE BIGGER PICTURE. You sacrifice a few Alliance, but you save NOT ONLY the DA but ALSO the Turian fleet that protected the DA!

Seriously, STOP being so willful ignorant and realize that the Renegade choice is NOT a logical choice, UNLESS you want human dominance, that's the ONLY reason to hold back the Alliance fleet.

If you had any understanding of the tactical value of dreadnoughts in ME you'd realize that saving the DA is a poor tactical decision, considering the circumstances. 

A) Saving the Council at that moment will do nothing to aid the immediate efforts against Sovereign, because
The DA was already badly damaged and effectively incapable of fighting, because
C) It got its ass kicked by geth cruisers, because dreadnoughts (DA included) are designed to sit many kilometers away from combat and snipe at other dreadnoughts or stationary targets with their main guns, not engage in close-quarters combat where it can't maneuver adequately to bring firepower to bear on a target.

We already had this discussion. I know VERY WELL how dreadnoughts work, even before you posted this, TWICE. I KNOW the DA can't help in the battle against Sovereign at the Citadel, but again, LOOK AT THE BIGGER PICTURE. The DA might prove very useful LATER AGAINST THE REAPER INVASION.

Also, the DA is a powerful symbol, letting such a symbol go down in shreds is not good for morale.

Also and most importantly, the DA has the council abort. If one thing is worse for morale than letting a symbol die, is letting the galactic government that led the galaxy for centuries die while they could have been saved. It will disrupt morale and worse, it will disrupt the political balance of the galaxy.
If there is one thing you do NOT want, it's a political poopstorm while we're about to go at war against our biggest enemy ever, the Reapers.

And no, saving the DA does not risk our position against Sovereign, because even though Alliance ships are lost against the Geth, Turian ships are saved while doing so. So it all balances out.


Why do all Renegades FAIL at looking at the bigger picture? Geez, stop being so short-sighted.

Looking at the "bigger picture" (as you lay claim to) when Sovereign is right there in front of your face minutes away from opening the gates of hell is waging the entirety of our existence vs. politics. Seriously? Literally no other consideration takes higher priority than stopping Sovereign as soon as possible, because if by the remotest chance it should activate the Citadel relay, our entire galactic civilization is lost. In all of military history across all the current species there was never a higher value target than Sovereign at the moment Shepard tells the Alliance to focus on it and ignore the DA. Talk about lacking perspective. 

Modifié par marshalleck, 15 juillet 2011 - 04:03 .

[ThePwener]

Alright, obviously this guy has in his possesion the dumbest Shepard ever. Im not wasting my time with him.

Why not save the Destiny Ascension?

1) The Council are douchebags

2) Sovereign is about to unleash the apocalypse

3) Shepard doesn't have a visual, hence he has no reason to believe that the Geth fleet can "backstab" 5th fleet.

4) Did I mention the apocalypse?

[marshalleck]

You're right that it's a gambit, but engaging the geth and possibly getting ensnared with them while Sovereign is summoning his pals is still a losing proposition because winning that little fight on the sidelines won't stop Sovereign. There's no guarantee that the Alliance fleet at full strength will take down Sovereign, and no guarantee regarding the strength and capability of the remains of the turian fleet, so why attempt a push on Sovereign at less than full capacity? 

The victory conditions here are destroying Sovereign. Any losses (even amongst humanity) are acceptable as long as Sovereign is stopped. The geth can be mopped up after the fact by the bulk of Citadel forces which were (ignorantly) stationed away from the Citadel and locked out of the battle until the relays open again.

Modifié par marshalleck, 15 juillet 2011 - 04:17 .

[marshalleck]

Luc0s wrote...
and only ONE egocentric reason to let the council die.

The continued survival of humanity, turians, asari, salarian, elcor, hanar, volus, batarians, krogans, and every other known/unknown spacefaring species in the galaxy is egocentric? Because just so you know, the cost of letting Sovereign succeed is the extinction of all of them, not just humanity. There's much more at stake here than saving political face.

But fair enough. I'm glad to be a selfish bastard then. I'll wear that badge with pride. 

Modifié par marshalleck, 15 juillet 2011 - 04:27 .

[Mahrac]

@ Luc@s

calm down.

that said, the better tactical decision is to throw all of your forces (human and turian) against half of the ememy fleet (geth) and then have a much stronger force when the citadel opens up, and you don't have to worry about your back flank. never mind that soverign CAN'T open the relay because Saren got 'killed' before he could transfer control of the station to Sovereign

[ThePwener]

marshalleck wrote...

But fair enough. I'm glad to be a selfish bastard then. I'll wear that badge with pride.

Your not alone in that pedestal pal. We may be few, but we're the only ones doing things right.

[ThePwener]

Mahrac wrote...

never mind that soverign CAN'T open the relay because Saren got 'killed' before he could transfer control of the station to Sovereign

We're not entirely sure of that. Even if it is so, there are still Geth on the station who can do it.

[Mahrac]

i'm fairly certain. Shepard did have access to the control panel and s/he said Vigel's files gave him/her control

[Sainthood85]

Save the Council, you're a hero and humanity gets a more lukewarm welcome to the galaxy.

Let the council die, you lose the largest ship in the fleet (A ship that was torn apart by a standard, albeit large, Geth fleet) and the Turians and humany start an arms race to build more ships and weapons in record time.

Now which one would you rather have when an unstoppable race of hyper-advanced machines comes bearing down on the galaxy....come to think of it would EITHE solution real matter, its not like Reaper ships have any real weaknesses to MEs weapon systems. Kinda makes you wonder if the Renegade option is the supposed best choice (even for a paragon shep, which I always am)

Renegade Result of ME1 - Arms race and dozens of new ships are made
Renegade Result of ME2 - Rushed out weapons to combat Reapers advanced shields and armor (admittedly difficult since the rechnology would be new, unknown, and outdated by Reaper standards but since there was tech on teh station about Reaper construction......

It just feels like Im supposed to play Paragon all through, make friends, then make a tough choice at the end that feels wrong.

[marshalleck]

Mahrac wrote...

@ Luc@s

calm down.

that said, the better tactical decision is to throw all of your forces (human and turian) against half of the ememy fleet (geth) and then have a much stronger force when the citadel opens up, and you don't have to worry about your back flank. never mind that soverign CAN'T open the relay because Saren got 'killed' before he could transfer control of the station to Sovereign

The Reapers built the Citadel. I'm pretty certain Sovereign can hack it, if required. 

[ThePwener]

Yeah, because we totally know what the Reapers are capable of.