202 réponses à ce sujet

[ThePwener]

marshalleck wrote...

The Reapers built the Citadel.

In that, I have to disagree. I got the feeling that Sovereign was trying to feed me a lot of bull in Virmire. But that's a completaly different discussion.

[Mahrac]

marshalleck wrote...

The Reapers built the Citadel. I'm pretty certain Sovereign can hack it, if required. 

and yet it still had to have Saren hand over control manually, and it needed a fleet to protect it while it was manually reopening the relay

[marshalleck]

Mahrac wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

The Reapers built the Citadel. I'm pretty certain Sovereign can hack it, if required. 

and yet it still had to have Saren hand over control manually, and it needed a fleet to protect it while it was manually reopening the relay

Do you really, honestly believe that the prothean program was an utter, permanent checkmate in favor of organic civilization? That Sovereign's tentacles were tied? Be honest now.

Modifié par marshalleck, 15 juillet 2011 - 04:32 .

[ThePwener]

Luc0s wrote...

*retard talking*

That was my final statement, DERP to you too. Im not wasting time with someone who calls me "****ing stupid" when I never insulted them to begin with.

Recheck your manners and priorities, and THEN I'll waste my time with you.

[Sainthood85]

ThePwener wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

The Reapers built the Citadel.

In that, I have to disagree. I got the feeling that Sovereign was trying to feed me a lot of bull in Virmire. But that's a completaly different discussion.

The Truth hurts more than any lie, and Human emotion is so insignificant to something like a machine that it would never consider morale as a factor to one human, meaning that Soverign lying to Shepard would get it no gain.  Meaning he had no reason to lie because it wouldnt matter.  Confused yet?

Besides didnt Vigil confirm that the Mass Relays were built by the Reapers?

[Mahrac]

no, because Sovereign could still have someone (like Saren) hand control of the Citadel over to it. that said, that would require:

1. Saren to be at the control panel
2. no one shooting at you
3. Shepard not having control of the systems
4. enough time that the DA and the turian fleet could be saved

[marshalleck]

Mahrac wrote...

no, because Sovereign could still have someone (like Saren) hand control of the Citadel over to it. that said, that would require:

1. Saren to be at the control panel
2. no one shooting at you
3. Shepard not having control of the systems
4. enough time that the DA and the turian fleet could be saved

And you're willing to wager the future of not only your own species, but all species on those assumptions?

[Massadonious1]

If Sovereign could hack the Citadel, then it clearly should of been plan A.

[Mahrac]

yes, because if Sovereign did have control then the relay would be charging up and the reaper fleet would come through it and that would be the end of life as we know it, DA and turian fleet or not

[Savber100]

Luc0s wrote...

Yes, thay would make sense if letting the Council die could give you a headstart. Sadly, it DOESN'T!

1) You can't go in right away because THE GATES ARE CLOSED. 

2) Turian ships are getting ripped to shreds, ships that could HELP YOU against Sovereign if YOU would HELP THEM with protecting the DA.

3) Leaving the DA and the Turian fleet to it's fate means also leaving the Geth fleet in tact (because you just fly past them), which means the Geth could BACKSTAB you while you're trying to kill Sovereign.


Now tell me, who here lacks perspective?

There are THOUSANDS of reasons to save the council, and only ONE egocentric reason to let the council die.

1. The fact that you had the option to attack Sovereign first means that the Citadel arm wasn't going to be a problem either way.

2. As you said, the Turian fleet was ripped to shreds. Whatever that is left won't hardly make a difference.

3. It's either that or be stalled by the Geth which would have bought Sovereign even more time.

Last, you have to put it in perspective. At that very second, Sovereign was unleashing the entire Reaper fleet onto the galaxy. When I was playing I saw the decision as simple: Save the world or save the Council for rep points in the even we survive.

It's like choosing between saving UN or the world during a terrorist attack. Should I shoot the terrorist that's about to launch the nukes or save that politican so that he can later (hopefully) give me a medal?

[Mahrac]

Massadonious1 wrote...

If Sovereign could hack the Citadel, then it clearly should of been plan A.
 

that to

[marshalleck]

Mahrac wrote...

yes,

Anyone who answers in the affirmative to the question "are you willing to wager the future of your species" is not cut out for safeguarding said species. 

It's no less than saying you'd be willing to wager the life of your own child, under any circumstance.

Modifié par marshalleck, 15 juillet 2011 - 04:43 .

[ThePwener]

Sainthood85 wrote...

The Truth hurts more than any lie, and Human emotion is so insignificant to something like a machine that it would never consider morale as a factor to one human, meaning that Soverign lying to Shepard would get it no gain.  Meaning he had no reason to lie because it wouldnt matter.  Confused yet?

Besides didnt Vigil confirm that the Mass Relays were built by the Reapers?

The Protheans, with all of they're mighty tech and infinite knowledge, knew very little of who built the Reapers and the Citadel and the Relays. I have always had a theory of the Reapers not being true AI, but something completaly different. I think I always hear Sovereign crying "NOOOOOO!" when he blows up. Maybe Im nuts, but.....

[ThePwener]

Wait!? Why are we discussing Sovereign's control to free the Reapers.... when he was trapped in a giant metal cacoon and Saren dead? The choice of killing him meant that he COULD activate the relay. Figures. Another reason centering in him is the right call.

[AtreiyaN7]

As much as they seem like self-interested *bleeps*, I have to think that it's better to have the goodwill of the Council races, considering the high stakes.

[Mahrac]

Savber100 wrote...

Luc0s wrote...

Yes, thay would make sense if letting the Council die could give you a headstart. Sadly, it DOESN'T!

1) You can't go in right away because THE GATES ARE CLOSED. 

2) Turian ships are getting ripped to shreds, ships that could HELP YOU against Sovereign if YOU would HELP THEM with protecting the DA.

3) Leaving the DA and the Turian fleet to it's fate means also leaving the Geth fleet in tact (because you just fly past them), which means the Geth could BACKSTAB you while you're trying to kill Sovereign.


Now tell me, who here lacks perspective?

There are THOUSANDS of reasons to save the council, and only ONE egocentric reason to let the council die.

1. The fact that you had the option to attack Sovereign first means that the Citadel arm wasn't going to be a problem either way.

2. As you said, the Turian fleet was ripped to shreds. Whatever that is left won't hardly make a difference.

3. It's either that or be stalled by the Geth which would have bought Sovereign even more time.

Last, you have to put it in perspective. At that very second, Sovereign was unleashing the entire Reaper fleet onto the galaxy. When I was playing I saw the decision as simple: Save the world or save the Council for rep points in the even we survive.

It's like choosing between saving UN or the world during a terrorist attack. Should I shoot the terrorist that's about to launch the nukes or save that politican so that he can later (hopefully) give me a medal?

1. but you still need to fly through the middle of the battle to get to the arms, never mint the element of suprise and a pincer attack

2. there had to be a signiffigant number left since the DA was still intact since dreadnoughts aren't made for close combat

3. you have to fly right past them. not a whole lot of time lost

except by saving the world includes saving the UN and not saving the world includes not saving the UN

[ThePwener]

Luc0s wrote...

Yes you did insult me. Do I need to quote it? I didn't insult you directly, since I merely asked you a question.

"are you f-ing stupid?" =/= "you are stupid"

Whether you're stupid or not, I leave that up to you. So, ARE you stupid? Or not?

Well I guess we know who's "****ing stupid" now.

[mauro2222]

ThePwener wrote...

Frankly, threads like these demostrate how screwed we'd be if real military leaders thought like they're Shepards.

Haha they will probably find better and peaceful solutions to problems instead of shooting all that can cause troubles, in that way they will be more human and not just stupid brainwashed people ... Sacrificing your humanity is the same as being exterminated... Yeah you win the war, but you´ll become the new reaper.

"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche

[Sainthood85]

The fleets and ships I saw were being torn to bits in second without damaging the Reaper at ALL.

It wasnt until Shepard disrutped the link between Saren and Soveriegn that the opening came.

Seems like we wont be fighting Reapers in Space, but on the ground via ground to orbit based weapons and boarding parties with lots of bombs.

[thatguy212]

It really depends on how bioware decides to play it out, because i could see it going either way, save the council and you'll get support from other races, killl them and the other races won't support you, or save the council and they'll be too focused on saving their own races, kill the council and they'll look to humans for guidance again which will give us their support

[Mahrac]

marshalleck wrote...

Mahrac wrote...

yes,

Anyone who answers in the affirmative to the question "are you willing to wager the future of your species" is not cut out for safeguarding said species. 

It's no less than saying you'd be willing to wager the life of your own child, under any circumstance.

read the rest of the comment. it i'm right, then great. if i'm wrong, then there still isn't enough time for ignoring the DA to make a difference. at least thats how i saw and ment it

[ThePwener]

mauro2222 wrote...

"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.[/i][/b]" Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche

I am sorry, but I do not believe that. I myself would do horrible things for a cause I believed in. Minutes later I'd go back to my normal self like I never di anything. For me, remorse is abstract, just like it is for my Shepard.