202 réponses à ce sujet

[S.A.K]

mauro2222 wrote...

Is that Rannoch?

Rannoch? OMG where?

[JedTed]

[quote]S.A.K wrote...

[quote]Mahrac wrote...
[quote]S.A.K wrote...
[/quote]
It is the original one. But if he's dead, he must be replaced or that scene won't happen.
[/quote]
which trailer?[/quote]
This video at 14:08. They are onboard the Normandy.

[/quote]

That could also be the salarian ambassidor, the Councillor isn't the only salarian that wears that hood.

[Mahrac]

Yeah but that's not the point.
The point is, should the politicians face the consequences of their incopetency, or should some poor human soldiers face it for them?

I didn't "let the council die", I tried to prevent them. I just focused on the biggest threat.
I didn't mean to make a human-centric council. 

alright,my misunderstanding. but what about the other 10000 people on the DA? what about the rest of the turian fleet? 
should they all pay for the counsel?

[AlexMBrennan]

should they all pay for the counsel?

Well, yes - counsel: noun 2. a barrister or legal adviser conducting a case (OED)

Having to sacrifice a few ships and crew is simply the price humanity has to pay for greater influence on the Council (which Eden Prime was originally about before they were so rudely disturbed by the geth invasion) - if the first *human* Spectre give the order to *not* save the DA to keep human casualties low then all that work would have been for nothing as this would prove to the aliens that humans simply can't be trusted with the responsibility of the Spectres (never mind a seat on the Council).

In any case I'd justify saving the DA by pointing out that there's a geth fleet in the area who, presumably, had orders to protect Sovereign - so the question was whether Shepard wanted to fight the geth fleet and Sovereign at the same time or not.

Modifié par AlexMBrennan, 15 juillet 2011 - 06:34 .

[mauro2222]

S.A.K wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

Is that Rannoch?

Rannoch? OMG where?

Well they say that the quarian fleet is in orbit, and is a geth facilitie. I assume that is Rannoch.

[Iwantobelieve]

Mahrac wrote...

Yeah but that's not the point.
The point is, should the politicians face the consequences of their incopetency, or should some poor human soldiers face it for them?

I didn't "let the council die", I tried to prevent them. I just focused on the biggest threat.
I didn't mean to make a human-centric council. 

alright,my misunderstanding. but what about the other 10000 people on the DA? what about the rest of the turian fleet? 
should they all pay for the counsel?

Without the Alliance fleet, the whole citadel would be destroyed, council, and turian fleet included, anyway.
Let's pretend I'm a Turian and you are Shepard; You may have let some peple die, but you saved me from a certain death. Why the hell should I blame you for saving me and eliminating the big threat ? 
Because some aliens are complete idiots.

Modifié par Iwantobelieve, 15 juillet 2011 - 06:34 .

[Mahrac]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

should they all pay for the counsel?

Well, yes - counsel: noun 2. a barrister or legal adviser conducting a case (OED)

Having to sacrifice a few ships and crew is simply the price humanity has to pay for greater influence on the Council (which Eden Prime was originally about before they were so rudely disturbed by the geth invasion) - if the first *human* Spectre give the order to *not* save the DA to keep human casualties low then all that work would have been for nothing as this would prove to the aliens that humans simply can't be trusted with the responsibility of the Spectres (never mind a seat on the Council).

In any case I'd justify saving the DA by pointing out that there's a geth fleet in the area who, presumably, have orders to protect Sovereign - so the question is whether we want to fight the geth fleet and Sovereign at the same time or not.

thanks for pointing out the spelling mistake.

and i think we've already gone over that arguement somewhere. probably around the time some people lost there tempers

[Mahrac]

Iwantobelieve wrote...

Mahrac wrote...

Yeah but that's not the point.
The point is, should the politicians face the consequences of their incopetency, or should some poor human soldiers face it for them?

I didn't "let the council die", I tried to prevent them. I just focused on the biggest threat.
I didn't mean to make a human-centric council. 

alright,my misunderstanding. but what about the other 10000 people on the DA? what about the rest of the turian fleet? 
should they all pay for the counsel?

Without the Alliance fleet, the whole citadel would be destroyed, council, and turian fleet included, anyway.
Let's pretend I'm a Turian and you are Shepard; You may have let some peple die, but you saved me from a certain death. Why the hell should I blame you for saving me and eliminating the big threat ? 
Because some aliens are complete idiots.

but as things stand, the DA and fleet are on the way TO the citadel, which is closed. it would take nearly no extra time to swoop in, blast the Geth, get reignforcements, and be at the Citadel in time to hit Sovereign as the arms were opening.
That would save the counsil and give larger numbert to deal with the bigger threat and take out the threat to the Fifth fleet's back flank

[Iwantobelieve]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

should they all pay for the counsel?

Well, yes - counsel: noun 2. a barrister or legal adviser conducting a case (OED)

Having to sacrifice a few ships and crew is simply the price humanity has to pay for greater influence on the Council (which Eden Prime was originally about before they were so rudely disturbed by the geth invasion) - if the first *human* Spectre give the order to *not* save the DA to keep human casualties low then all that work would have been for nothing as this would prove to the aliens that humans simply can't be trusted with the responsibility of the Spectres (never mind a seat on the Council).

In any case I'd justify saving the DA by pointing out that there's a geth fleet in the area who, presumably, had orders to protect Sovereign - so the question was whether Shepard wanted to fight the geth fleet and Sovereign at the same time or not.

Lol, humanity saved the citadel isn't that a big contribution ? What you are asking is too much.
As I said, the human spectre doesnt give the order to "not save" the DA, but to kill the big one. It's also part of his duty.

[Iwantobelieve]

Mahrac wrote...

Iwantobelieve wrote...

Mahrac wrote...

Yeah but that's not the point.
The point is, should the politicians face the consequences of their incopetency, or should some poor human soldiers face it for them?

I didn't "let the council die", I tried to prevent them. I just focused on the biggest threat.
I didn't mean to make a human-centric council. 

alright,my misunderstanding. but what about the other 10000 people on the DA? what about the rest of the turian fleet? 
should they all pay for the counsel?

Without the Alliance fleet, the whole citadel would be destroyed, council, and turian fleet included, anyway.
Let's pretend I'm a Turian and you are Shepard; You may have let some peple die, but you saved me from a certain death. Why the hell should I blame you for saving me and eliminating the big threat ? 
Because some aliens are complete idiots.

but as things stand, the DA and fleet are on the way TO the citadel, which is closed. it would take nearly no extra time to swoop in, blast the Geth, get reignforcements, and be at the Citadel in time to hit Sovereign as the arms were opening.
That would save the counsil and give larger numbert to deal with the bigger threat and take out the threat to the Fifth fleet's back flank

You forgot to mention the human casualities. And the fact that in case of a freaking Reaper attack the most important thing to do is to destroy it rather than try to save the dumb politicians. We have to make a critical choice.
But I understand your opinion even if I dont agree with. We just dont have the same principles.

Modifié par Iwantobelieve, 15 juillet 2011 - 06:51 .

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Oh look it's this thread again.

[AlexMBrennan]

Lol, humanity saved the citadel isn't that a big contribution ?

Aliens won't see it that way - they'll see human commanders waiting just long enough to save the day with the aliens taking most of the casualties.
And, at the end of the day, humans can't stop the Reapers alone; hence stopping Sovereign is irrelevant if the means necessary will cause the other species to lose whatever trust they had.

As I said, the human spectre doesnt give the order to "not save" the DA, but to kill the big one.

I'd say the cutting communications counts as "Let them die" in that situation.

[Inverness Moon]

nhsk wrote...

Depends on your viewpoint

Saved council = more goodwill
Dead council = arms race between Humans and Turians

What do you want most?

They both seem like viable options. Goodwill helps with making alliances to deal with the reapers, an arms race will also help build up military strength in preparation for dealing with the reapers.

[Drone223]

Live old council: It will be easier to rally council species, They say the owe you a debt of a lot so when the reapers arrive and they know of this they may promise full militaray support
Dead council: Turian-human arms race means more ships and more weapons angainst reaper threat 

Also: None of the choices didn't really have much of a effect despite the npc reaction's also it was the 2nd game we're fighting collecters not reapers

[Mr. Gogeta34]

ThePwener wrote...

Even if that justified reason is wrong. Mass Effect is great as giving out indirect consequences.

Or atleast in allowing us to fabricate some when they aren't there.

Modifié par Mr. Gogeta34, 15 juillet 2011 - 08:59 .

[Augustei]

nhsk wrote...

Depends on your viewpoint

Saved council = more goodwill
Dead council = arms race between Humans and Turians

What do you want most?

That depends... whats more useful in war? Trust among allies or a ****load of weapons and vehicle tech and supplies from both sides?

Modifié par XxDeonxX, 15 juillet 2011 - 10:59 .

[Golden Owl]

S.A.K wrote...

What would be better, save the old council or let them die so humans get more power. I know the old council almost never listen to anything shepard has to say. So I got them killed at first and the new council seems to do the same sh*t. When the old council is saved atleast humans get more trust from other civilizations. But when war with the reapers start it might be good to have a human led council might be useful. What do you guys think?

Btw stay on topic.

Council: Saved them for a few reasons.....mainly Galactic
stability....despite how much we may dislike our politicians and how
bent they maybe, who do people look to for guidence in times of crisis?
Our Politicians.....they are a necessary evil in traumatic times...they
can bring the various forces together into a cohesive unit....Plus that
Dreadnought I think is of great benefit, its a powerful ship and will be
needed....Plus, demonstrating to the Galactic community that we all
need to join forces and work together to defeat this threat...lead by
example as such.

[Siven80]

I save the council everytime (except for my one and only renegade save where i concentrated on Sovereign). Mainly for saving the supposedly awesome Asari dreadnought, and a small part because i believe we need to work with the other races.

But from a future games interaction standpoint, i would still save them. For ME3 im guessing that if you saved the council it will be easier to convince other races to help (lower para/ren score persuade score needed maybe?) that it is if you let them die.

[Iwantobelieve]

Luc0s wrote...

Iwantobelieve wrote...

Luc0s wrote...

Iwantobelieve wrote...

Okay so explain me.

Shepard tryed to prevent the council from the reaper threat, they told him to go f*** himself.
Why should he save their asses, sending poor human soldiers who will have to face the consequences of the council stupidity?

I'm pro-galactic council AND paragon, but the decision to save the council is dumb as f***.

No, it's not dumb. Just because the council are a bunch of ****s towards Shepard regarding the reapers does not mean they deserve to die. MAYBE other people ARE happy with the current council. 

For example, if you couldn't get a long with Obama, and Obama was in danger, you could let Obama die. That would make some of the McCain voters happy, but all the Obama voters would be sad, angry, confused, in shock, panic, distress. Heck, I dare say that even some McCain voters would be in panic and confused.

So while I understand the people who think it's best to let the council die, I think letting them die because they where a-holes towards you is not a valid reason.

I have a better example.
BUSH is in danger, in IRAQ. Would you sacrifice human lives to save his arse?

Bad example.

1) Bush is not the leader of the USA anymore.

2) Bush started the wark in Iraq himself, so everything is his own damn fault. But you can't say the same about the Council in Mass Effect. They didn't start any war. In fact, the very reason why they aren't really helping Shepard is because they're afraid Shepard's actions wish CAUSE a war with the Terminus and the Council does NOT want a war they want to PREVENT a war.

No, my Obama example is better. Your example doesn't make sense.

1) Who cares. An example is not meant to be in a realistic context, you know that.

2) In both situations, they have seen it coming.


Look, I'm an atheist. But if one day, God appears and unleashes armageddon, I would blame only myself. 

[GreenDragon37]

Depends.

I saved the Council to make Humans look good/selfless. Galactic Stability.

Destroying the Council will make Humanity look bad/power-hungry. Galaxy in turmoil with the ruthless rise of Humanity as the head of the galaxy.

Either way, it's your choice. Human dominace or relative stability with Humanity rising slowly.

Modifié par GreenDragon37, 15 juillet 2011 - 04:35 .

[Labrev]

IsaacShep wrote...

= all the proof one needs that saving the Council was a good decision

fix'd

by the way, he uses one finger per hand, not two.

[Labrev]

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

Oh look it's this thread again.

Oh look it's this comment again.