96 réponses à ce sujet

[Ryzaki]

I always wondered this. In ME1 it was suggested that Shep was as stong as a commando (as was Kaidan) due to the implants. But with the newere implnts wouldn't he be even stronger? What class of Asari would Shepard be comparable to? Is he still only a bit stronger than a commnando? Is he on the level inbetween that and a matriach?

I'm just wondering.  

[AngelicMachinery]

Well she has proven herself stronger than Samara( A Matriarch). I know it's just game fluff, but, using what we have... Shepard is the true biotic goddess.

[KawaiiKatie]

Depends on the Asari, like you said. Shepard's probably stronger than a Commando, because I got the feeling that Commando's were more Vanguard types (Weapon/Biotic specialists) like Tela Vasir. Commandos and Vanguards are strong in Biotics, yes, but not as strong as an Adept.

I think that Adept Shepard was easily stronger in Biotics than Liara, and possibly as strong as Benezia. Shepard's not as strong as Samara or Morinth, but those two are both very rare cases. Samara has had intense Justicar training, and Morinth has been gathering energy from four centuries' worth of sexual victims.

So yes, I think Adept Shepard is definitely more powerful than the average Asari, and even more powerful than the Commandos. After that, it's a case-by-case study of Matriarchs and special exceptions.

[GodWood]

I imagine it'd depend on the individual asari.

An asari accountant (however old) is bound to be a weaker biotic than Shepard however an asari with 200 years military training is most definitely going to be more powerful.


However since this is never reflected in the gameplay most will simply believe SHEPHERD IZ TEH SHTRONGIST BYOTIC EVARRR

[goofyomnivore]

I think lore wise at best Shepard would place somewhere between Tela Vasir and Benezia. I don't think Shepard is as powerful as Jack, and not even in the same league as Samara.

[Ryzaki]

KawaiiKatie wrote...

Depends on the Asari, like you said. Shepard's probably stronger than a Commando, because I got the feeling that Commando's were more Vanguard types (Weapon/Biotic specialists) like Tela Vasir. Commandos and Vanguards are strong in Biotics, yes, but not as strong as an Adept.

I think that Adept Shepard was easily stronger in Biotics than Liara, and possibly as strong as Benezia. Shepard's not as strong as Samara or Morinth, but those two are both very rare cases. Samara has had intense Justicar training, and Morinth has been gathering energy from four centuries' worth of sexual victims.

So yes, I think Adept Shepard is definitely more powerful than the average Asari, and even more powerful than the Commandos. After that, it's a case-by-case study of Matriarchs and special exceptions.

Makes sense. 

Those Cerberus implants probably gave his biotics massive kick. Probably near Jack's level (his implants were probably based on hers but without the neural degredation side effect). 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 12 juillet 2011 - 07:56 .

[Sshodan]

@ Ryzaki
Judging by the age originally Shep is L2 biotic. L2 implants are more powerful than L3, but have more side effects - mainly headaches, rejections and biotics going crazy, Shep is one of the few lucky once to have no side effects from L2.
So Cerberus either left us with the slightly upgraded L2, for efficiency, in that case we are still on commando level, toned us down to L3, which would make Shep actually weaker, or added something new that is probably as powerful as L2 but safer, so back to commando level again.

[Ryzaki]

Sshodan wrote...

@ Ryzaki
Judging by the age originally Shep is L2 biotic. L2 implants are more powerful than L3, but have more side effects - mainly headaches, rejections and biotics going crazy, Shep is one of the few lucky once to have no side effects from L2.
So Cerberus either left us with the slightly upgraded L2, for efficiency, in that case we are still on commando level, toned us down to L3, which would make Shep actually weaker, or added something new that is probably as powerful as L2 but safer, so back to commando level again.

No he's not an L2 anymore. 

Cerberus gave him new implants. The name is on the intro selection screen when you pick his class. 

L5x is what they're called. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 12 juillet 2011 - 07:58 .

[Sshodan]

Than it is the third option - implant that retains the power of L2 with less drawbacks. I believe L2 already packed all the punch that a human biotic can get, they were build for max power afterall, so we did not get stronger, but probably got a bit more control out of the deal, and less likeness of early grave.

[KawaiiKatie]

Sshodan wrote...

@ Ryzaki
Judging by the age originally Shep is L2 biotic. L2 implants are more powerful than L3, but have more side effects - mainly headaches, rejections and biotics going crazy, Shep is one of the few lucky once to have no side effects from L2.
So Cerberus either left us with the slightly upgraded L2, for efficiency, in that case we are still on commando level, toned us down to L3, which would make Shep actually weaker, or added something new that is probably as powerful as L2 but safer, so back to commando level again.

No, Shepard in ME1 was an L3. Kaidan (who is four years older than Shepard) implies as much. Kaidan says that his L2 implants spike higher than the L3s... except for Shepard, of course.

And Cerberus implants Shepard with L5x implants, which are presumably both safe and immensely powerful.

[Han Shot First]

GodWood wrote...

I imagine it'd depend on the individual asari.

An asari accountant (however old) is bound to be a weaker biotic than Shepard however an asari with 200 years military training is most definitely going to be more powerful.


However since this is never reflected in the gameplay most will simply believe SHEPHERD IZ TEH SHTRONGIST BYOTIC EVARRR

This.

Because Shepard is controlled by the player he (or she) owns everything that dares to do battle. But lorewise the top tier Asari biotics are generally more powerful than the top tier human biotics, Jack aside. Humans haven't yet maximized their biotic potential, and even if they did, I suspect the Asari would still have an edge. After all their whole biology revolves around biotics.

[KawaiiKatie]

Ryzaki wrote...

No he's not an L2 anymore.

Shepard was never an L2! If he was, why wouldn't he say as much to the L2 biotics who kidnapped Martin Burns? Why wouldn't he talk about it with Kaidan?

Shepard was an L3. Kaidan is the only L2 on the Normandy.

[Patchwork]

I remember reading somewhere (the wiki I think so take this with a pinch of salt) Shepard didn't receive implants until after entering the military by which time L3 implants were used.

I think there's also a double exposure to eezo. One before birth and another at 17.

[Ryzaki]

Sshodan wrote...

Than it is the third option - implant that retains the power of L2 with less drawbacks. I believe L2 already packed all the punch that a human biotic can get, they were build for max power afterall, so we did not get stronger, but probably got a bit more control out of the deal, and less likeness of early grave.

Nah that tech is from 2 years back. With as willing to throw people under the bus as Cerberus is I'm pretty sure they found a way to maximize biotic potential even more. (not to mention since Shepard was already dead they didn't have to worry about killing him. They most likely built his body to withstand the effects of the implants). ...Sort of what the Reapers did with Scions now that I think about it.  There's a disturbing parallel. 

As for less likely of an early grave..Shep's pretty much a cyborg. He could nearly be immortal (as long as he's upgraded periodically)...or he could kick the bucket in a few years. Hard to guess.  

KawaiiKatie wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

No he's not an L2 anymore.

Shepard was never an L2! If he was, why wouldn't he say as much to the L2 biotics who kidnapped Martin Burns? Why wouldn't he talk about it with Kaidan?

Shepard was an L3. Kaidan is the only L2 on the Normandy.

Sheesh it was a mistake. No need to scream about it. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 12 juillet 2011 - 08:09 .

[Sshodan]

@ Ryzaki
Well it's a matter of opinion, but I think that once the glass is full you can't pack more water in it. They did not "upgrade" Shep, it was the task of the project to bring him/her back as close to original as possible, adding unstable, experimental biotical treatments would have been unwise to say the least. So no, we did not get much more powerful than we where.

[Ryzaki]

Sshodan wrote...

@ Ryzaki
Well it's a matter of opinion, but I think that once the glass is full you can't pack more water in it. They did not "upgrade" Shep, it was the task of the project to bring him/her back as close to original as possible, adding unstable, experimental biotical treatments would have been unwise to say the least. So no, we did not get much more powerful than we where.

One of the first things Shepard says to TIM is "I noticed some upgrades. I hope you didn't replace anything really important." I'm pretty sure Shep knows his body better than we do. So if he says something is new it probably is. 

and of course the researches where they continue changing Shepard's body. They did upgrade him. Just read the descriptions for the muscle weaves/biotic upgrades. 

As for experimental and unwise...you do realize you're talking about Cerberus right? Experimental and unwise is what they do. I wouldn't be surprised if they used the data from Teltin along with newer experiments to test run Shep's new implants. (frankly I wish they had therefore the more horrible and damaging to others experiments would've given the player a tangible benefit) 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 12 juillet 2011 - 08:18 .

[Ahriman]

GodWood wrote...

I imagine it'd depend on the individual asari.

An
asari accountant (however old) is bound to be a weaker biotic than
Shepard however an asari with 200 years military training is most
definitely going to be more powerful.

I suppose age gives biotic skill, not actual power which is more about natural potential and implants.

Sshodan wrote...

@ Ryzaki
Well it's a matter of opinion, but I think that once the glass is full you can't pack more water in it. They did not "upgrade" Shep, it was the task of the project to bring him/her back as close to original as possible, adding unstable, experimental biotical treatments would have been unwise to say the least. So no, we did not get much more powerful than we where.

In's clearly stated in the description of classes that Adept Shep revived with L5s implant and vanguard with L5x [no idea what do 'x' and 's' mean though].

[HTTP 404]

not as strong as biotic god

[Mims]

I'm of the mindset that adept Shep is comparable to Jack, but falls short of Samara. Samara would probably outlast all of them, and Jack could probably do way more damage in one action. That'd leave Shepard sort of in the middle in terms of power and sustainability. But considering Cerberus has been doing ongoing research with super biotics like Jack and Gillian*, I would think Shepard got the fruits of that research.

*They're sisters. Calling it now.

Modifié par Mims, 12 juillet 2011 - 08:24 .

[Sshodan]

Yes, they did upgrade the implants and that is, I believe is what Shep mentioned.
To "upgrade" the human biotic potential it'll take some serious alterations that don't do any favors to the persons mental stability - just look at Jacks story. Crazy Shep was useless to Cerberus.
If L2 already gave the best output for the human ability than that's it - the top of the meter, and best anyone but a crazy experiment can get. With the new implants we are the best that a sane, non experimental human biotic can be.
I get it that you want to kick the assari matriarch's butt, but realistically speaking it would not be wise to make Shep the new "biotic god". We are given a good amount of pover, but Jack is more powerful than we are, and so are a lot of asari I believe - for humans biotics are not natural, when for asari it is an essential part of who they are as a race..

[Ryzaki]

Sshodan wrote...

Yes, they did upgrade the implants and that is, I believe is what Shep mentioned.
To "upgrade" the human biotic potential it'll take some serious alterations that don't do any favors to the persons mental stability - just look at Jacks story. Crazy Shep was useless to Cerberus.
If L2 already gave the best output for the human ability than that's it - the top of the meter, and best anyone but a crazy experiment can get. With the new implants we are the best that a sane, non experimental human biotic can be.
I get it that you want to kick the assari matriarch's butt, but realistically speaking it would not be wise to make Shep the new "biotic god". We are given a good amount of pover, but Jack is more powerful than we are, and so are a lot of asari I believe - for humans biotics are not natural, when for asari it is an essential part of who they are as a race..

Shepard has already kicked an Asari Matriarch's butt. (Hellooo Benezia). I don't want him to be OMG BIOTIC GOD! I just want to know where his power level is. (with hopefully some game evidence). 

And once again. Shepard was built from the ground up. He can be modified to take more damage than just dumping eezo into a child. Shepard was meat and tubes when they found him. He wasn't a whole sleeping person. They can take liberties with him that would kill other people because he's already dead. 

Except L2s weren't the best. They were just the best the technology could come up with at that point. Technology advances and the previously thought impossible become possible. 

Mims wrote...

I'm of the mindset that adept Shep is comparable to Jack, but falls short of Samara. Samara would probably outlast all of them, and Jack could probably do way more damage in one action. That'd leave Shepard sort of in the middle in terms of power and sustainability. But considering Cerberus has been doing ongoing research with super biotics like Jack and Gillian*, I would think Shepard got the fruits of that research.

*They're sisters. Calling it now.

I'm of the mind Shep benefitted from that research as well. Samara would own all biotics on the squad though. (if we're talking about a straight up Biotics fight. Weapons get involved and then it's a coin toss). 

I have to wonder if Shep's biotics aren't mostly about controlling the battle field than damage. Pull, Throw, Shockwave, Singularity. All about controlling the field. P&T can do damage certainly but it's mostly control from what I see. 

From the SB dossier it would be odd. Jack's mom was poor right? And why would Cerberus steal their operatives child when said operative was loyal at the time? 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 12 juillet 2011 - 08:42 .

[Shotokanguy]

I'm surprised so many people think Jack isn't as strong a biotic as Samara. Her worth comes entirely from her biotics. If Samara was more powerful than Jack, what point would there be in recruiting a dangerous convict?

Samara (and other justicars, I imagine) probably fight with other things too. I mean, Samara does have assault rifle training. Biotics come naturally to the asari, and Samara is no doubt powerful, but it always seemed logical to assume Jack is the most powerful biotic on the team.

As for Shepard? Probably one of the most powerful biotics in the galaxy too, but Shepard has other skills. I think Shepard is supposed to be a jack of all trades type fighter.

[Ahriman]

Sshodan wrote...
 and so are a lot of asari I believe - for humans biotics are not natural, when for asari it is an essential part of who they are as a race..

But biotic cannot be 'natural', it's result of eezero infection. It's natural only in one way - evolution gave asari highest chance to survive such infection. I believe some of them still die because of this, but chances are slim and it isn't mentioned anywhere.

BTW Interesting topic, I've thought a lot about that.

[silentassassin264]

Cos no matter what scars you bear
Whatever uniform you wear
You can fight like a krogan, run like a leapard,
But you'll never be better than Commander Shepard.

[ReallyRue]

Shotokanguy wrote...

I'm surprised so many people think Jack isn't as strong a biotic as Samara. Her worth comes entirely from her biotics. If Samara was more powerful than Jack, what point would there be in recruiting a dangerous convict?

Samara (and other justicars, I imagine) probably fight with other things too. I mean, Samara does have assault rifle training. Biotics come naturally to the asari, and Samara is no doubt powerful, but it always seemed logical to assume Jack is the most powerful biotic on the team.

As for Shepard? Probably one of the most powerful biotics in the galaxy too, but Shepard has other skills. I think Shepard is supposed to be a jack of all trades type fighter.

I think Jack probably has as much raw biotic power as Samara, but what she lacks is the discipline and training.