81 réponses à ce sujet

[alperez]

Wrex tells you a story in me1 about a bad ass asari merc he fought and who got away, Aria tells you in me2 that she used to be a merc, that Patriarch is not the first Krogan she's pissed off and that sometimes rather than having to kill someone its better to just walk away.

If Aria is not Aleena then most of what she tells you about herself is meaningless to her character and is either a red herring or completely bad writing. Its practically the same thing with Aethyta and her story about her relationship and history leading to the conclussion she is Liara's father.

The only benefit you would get by introducing these aspects of backstory into these characters is for the reveal moment in me3 where you find that Aethyta is in fact Liara's father and Aria is in fact Aleena, otherwise your throwing out info for the sake of confusion or to throw people off a scent that a lot of people weren't even on.

If Aethtya doesn't mention her past history then it doesn't do anything to make you think she is Liara's father and if Aria says nothing about being a merc or having pissed off krogans in the past it does nothing to make you think she is Aleena.

The fact that both of these actually go out of their way almost to tell you this info should be all the clues you need to know what or who they really are.

[BlueMagitek]

Probably.

I'd lol if we take Wrex there to confront her and the real Aleena pops up and challenges Aria for dominance, though.

[who would know]

"Better luck next time" seals the deal.

[SkittlesKat96]

The clues are there so they could make it canon...

Not sure whether I'd like it though, I already found ME 2 bizarre enough with all the cameos and 'small galaxy' feeling. It would be kind of cool though and at least it makes good sense.

[alperez]

SkittlesKat96 wrote...

The clues are there so they could make it canon...

Not sure whether I'd like it though, I already found ME 2 bizarre enough with all the cameos and 'small galaxy' feeling. It would be kind of cool though and at least it makes good sense.

I love this whole small galaxy argument that people keep using in relation to characters all being interconnected somehow. That because Aria might be Aleena or Aethtya might be Liara's father or because Shepard meets a lot of the same characters in different settings this somehow implies this whole small galaxy feeling,

Literature is full of these little conincidences, movies are full of these reveals, its basic storytelling thats been done countless times and people expect Mass Effect to be somewhat different.

Darth Vader is lukes father, Laia his sister, Aragorn is actually the king, nobody seems to have a problem in these instances but do the same things in Mass Effect and your somehow making the galaxy feel smaller.Read a Stephen King novel like The Stand and watch how he introduces you to seperate characters with Seperated storylines and then brings all the characters together in the same place at the same time and that somehow works.

But introduce characters in Mass Effect, have Shepard interact with those characters in one place then some time later interact with a lot of those same characters in another, introduce characters who seemingly may have no connection to another character only to reveal that they have an important one is somehow limiting the size of the universe you created.

To me thats a false argument and misses the key point, if they didn't do it this way and we either didn't meet the characters we know or didn't meet characters that were connected to other characters the story itself would have been poorer.

No Conrad or Gianni or Shiala on Ilium and instead we get an e-mail saying thanks, Aria not being Aleena so instead we get either another Asari we don't know being revealed or no mention at all other than Wrex's story in me1, Aethtya not being Liara's father so we get either another unknown Asari being revealed or no closure whatsoever to a key character issue.

To me this isn't the galaxy being made smaller but actually the reverse, we're being given examples of how these characters have grown rather than simple nods they existed, we're being shown that characters are not who they first appear to be rather than having numerous character intros for no reason or storyline aspects being introduced and forgotten about.

Thats what enrichs a story and makes the galaxy seem more lifelike and alive which to me is the opposite of a small galaxy or universe, the universe is only as big as the characters in that universe imo.

[In Exile]

Silent X wrote...

@ Jeth Prime: Additionally, if you stay on Aria's good side in ME2 and try to pry into her past, she says something about deliberately hiding it, and that "sometimes you'd rather disappear than be forced to kill someone."

Admittedly, that's pretty vague. But it could conceivably refer to her disappearing because she didn't want to fight Wrex (who, after all, didn't want to fight her, either). There's nothing conclusive, that I'm aware of, it's just that coincidences in videogames are more likely not to be just coincidences than they are in real life.

That's the line that makes me think Aria's Aleena. That, and the krogan line. 

[FERMi27]

I found this group. Looks like people were always sure about that.

[Jeth Prime]

Silent X wrote...

@ Jeth Prime: Additionally, if you stay on Aria's good side in ME2 and try to pry into her past, she says something about deliberately hiding it, and that "sometimes you'd rather disappear than be forced to kill someone."

Admittedly, that's pretty vague. But it could conceivably refer to her disappearing because she didn't want to fight Wrex (who, after all, didn't want to fight her, either). There's nothing conclusive, that I'm aware of, it's just that coincidences in videogames are more likely not to be just coincidences than they are in real life.

That's really the only thing that would make me wonder that there is some connection between the two. But even that's vague. Aria doesn't mention anything resembling a hint about who this person is.

What's more, Wrex's discription of Aleena is nothing like Aria. I don't see it.

[Nashiktal]

Short answer? Its possible but without more evidence inconclusive.

You see I am torn on this... In one hand it would potentially be a pretty charged moment. What with Aria working for cerberus now, and Wrex building the krogan to a more significant force. The drama, the character growth.... It all feels pretty cool.

However on the flip side... The amount of characters just happening to know each other is starting to build a bit to the silly side. Random bartender we met Liara's father? The ruler of omega just happens to be Wrex's famous friend? Doctor Chloe just happens to be the doctor Kaiden dated? (all of these are just random theories I see around here, some more credible than others)

I can only take so much before my suspension of belief falters. Although if the actual interaction is done well I could probably forgive that.

[Nashiktal]

alperez wrote...

SkittlesKat96 wrote...

The clues are there so they could make it canon...

Not sure whether I'd like it though, I already found ME 2 bizarre enough with all the cameos and 'small galaxy' feeling. It would be kind of cool though and at least it makes good sense.

I love this whole small galaxy argument that people keep using in relation to characters all being interconnected somehow. That because Aria might be Aleena or Aethtya might be Liara's father or because Shepard meets a lot of the same characters in different settings this somehow implies this whole small galaxy feeling,

Literature is full of these little conincidences, movies are full of these reveals, its basic storytelling thats been done countless times and people expect Mass Effect to be somewhat different.

Darth Vader is lukes father, Laia his sister, Aragorn is actually the king, nobody seems to have a problem in these instances but do the same things in Mass Effect and your somehow making the galaxy feel smaller.Read a Stephen King novel like The Stand and watch how he introduces you to seperate characters with Seperated storylines and then brings all the characters together in the same place at the same time and that somehow works.

But introduce characters in Mass Effect, have Shepard interact with those characters in one place then some time later interact with a lot of those same characters in another, introduce characters who seemingly may have no connection to another character only to reveal that they have an important one is somehow limiting the size of the universe you created.

To me thats a false argument and misses the key point, if they didn't do it this way and we either didn't meet the characters we know or didn't meet characters that were connected to other characters the story itself would have been poorer.

No Conrad or Gianni or Shiala on Ilium and instead we get an e-mail saying thanks, Aria not being Aleena so instead we get either another Asari we don't know being revealed or no mention at all other than Wrex's story in me1, Aethtya not being Liara's father so we get either another unknown Asari being revealed or no closure whatsoever to a key character issue.

To me this isn't the galaxy being made smaller but actually the reverse, we're being given examples of how these characters have grown rather than simple nods they existed, we're being shown that characters are not who they first appear to be rather than having numerous character intros for no reason or storyline aspects being introduced and forgotten about.

Thats what enrichs a story and makes the galaxy seem more lifelike and alive which to me is the opposite of a small galaxy or universe, the universe is only as big as the characters in that universe imo.

There is a slight problem with your examples though. Vader being luke's father, Aaragorn being king, things like that are integral to the plot.

Stuff like Aleena being Aria, and the bartender being Liara's father is just pure fanservice being dumped into the story without any build up, without any character growth to go with it.

While we are at it, lets make that bartender on omega who tried to kill us the brother of a Batarian squadmate in ME3! Oh I know! lets run into one of Zaeeds old Asari lovers in a bar. Then we can bump into Garrus' old flame while on palaven, all the while sparring with ALL of Ashley's sisters.

Some things are best left in the background mate, there is a fine line between character building and just tossing random story threads into the game.

[The Elder King]

I think that Aria could be Aleena. Though I have to say, Aria have been Omega's boss for centuries. Wres was a mercenary for centuries, and Omega is a common place where mercanaries go. I doubt that Wrex never visited Omega from the days of his fight with Aleena.

[Luigitornado]

Wait why do people assume that Aethyta is Liara's father?

[Mohak]

Luigitornado wrote...

Wait why do people assume that Aethyta is Liara's father?

She has a picture of Liara(or someone who looks just like Liara) in one of the shadow broker videos. That's the biggest hint tho not a definite proof.

[Jeth Prime]

Mohak wrote...

Luigitornado wrote...

Wait why do people assume that Aethyta is Liara's father?

She has a picture of Liara(or someone who looks just like Liara) in one of the shadow broker videos. That's the biggest hint tho not a definite proof.

Looked like she was talking to someone through video chat, to me....

I think it's baced on a few hints you get from talking to her. I didn't bother getting into it with her yet, so I'm not sure.

[Dreadwing 67]

@Jeth Prime
There are too many similarities to just dismiss these two characters never met. We really don't get definitive proof, but from the way Aria talks, and what Wrex said, you can't help but wonder if Aleena became Aria.

Now to what I have to offer: I thought someone in-game said that Aria was not her real name. It would make me think that she changed it to Aria to hide it from Wrex and possibly others from her previous life as a merc.

It would be awesome to see two characters, one an icon and hero to me, the other rather fascinating, to meet once more under dire circumstances.

[100k]

alperez wrote...

Wrex tells you a story in me1 about a bad ass asari merc he fought and who got away, Aria tells you in me2 that she used to be a merc, that Patriarch is not the first Krogan she's pissed off and that sometimes rather than having to kill someone its better to just walk away.

If Aria is not Aleena then most of what she tells you about herself is meaningless to her character and is either a red herring or completely bad writing. Its practically the same thing with Aethyta and her story about her relationship and history leading to the conclussion she is Liara's father.

The only benefit you would get by introducing these aspects of backstory into these characters is for the reveal moment in me3 where you find that Aethyta is in fact Liara's father and Aria is in fact Aleena, otherwise your throwing out info for the sake of confusion or to throw people off a scent that a lot of people weren't even on.

If Aethtya doesn't mention her past history then it doesn't do anything to make you think she is Liara's father and if Aria says nothing about being a merc or having pissed off krogans in the past it does nothing to make you think she is Aleena.

The fact that both of these actually go out of their way almost to tell you this info should be all the clues you need to know what or who they really are.

I dunno. Aria also says that beating Patriarch was the toughest fight of her life. I doubt that Patriarch is stronger than Wrex...

Aleena sounds like Aria, but personally, I don't see enough connection. 

[JnEricsonx]

Well, its been a few centuries, right? Who's to say how strong Patriarch was when he was younger. I'm sure if you mentioned Patriarch's krogan name to Wrex, he might be, "Oh yeah, heard of him, tough bastard."

[100k]

JnEricsonx wrote...

Well, its been a few centuries, right? Who's to say how strong Patriarch was when he was younger. I'm sure if you mentioned Patriarch's krogan name to Wrex, he might be, "Oh yeah, heard of him, tough bastard."

Damn good point. 

[knightnblu]

I don't know. Aria doesn't strike me as one who would avoid killing innocent bystanders if they get in the way. She seems to be far too practical to do that.

[alperez]

100k wrote...


I dunno. Aria also says that beating Patriarch was the toughest fight of her life. I doubt that Patriarch is stronger than Wrex...

Aleena sounds like Aria, but personally, I don't see enough connection. 

Well she technically never beat Wrex or actually finished the fight wheras with Patriarch the fight went all the way to the end, so it could very well be that the fight with Patriarch was actually the toughest fight, also the fight with Wrex wasn't a continous one, it took places in stages and involved Wrex chasing her all over the ship until he finally got her cornered. Maybe the fight with Patriarch was just the opposite a complete knockdown dragout from start to finish and in some way that made it that much tougher.

Of course there is the simplest explanation of all, saying her fight with Patriarch was only the second toughest fight she ever had may just have been too much of a giveaway.

[alperez]

Nashiktal wrote...



There is a slight problem with your examples though. Vader being luke's father, Aaragorn being king, things like that are integral to the plot.

Stuff like Aleena being Aria, and the bartender being Liara's father is just pure fanservice being dumped into the story without any build up, without any character growth to go with it.

While we are at it, lets make that bartender on omega who tried to kill us the brother of a Batarian squadmate in ME3! Oh I know! lets run into one of Zaeeds old Asari lovers in a bar. Then we can bump into Garrus' old flame while on palaven, all the while sparring with ALL of Ashley's sisters.

Some things are best left in the background mate, there is a fine line between character building and just tossing random story threads into the game.

While not intergral to the plot they are integral to characters such as Wrex and Liara and help flesh these characters out even more and unlike the examples you give are actually plot points brought up by those very same characters.

As for fanservice well a lot of little nods we get are exactly that but i disagree with you on the buildup and character growth part. Wrex tells us a cool story about a bad ass merc he once fought, from the very moment he told us this story people wondered if we would meet this merc, Liara tells you her backstory and about her father and once again from the moment she does so people expected/hoped to meet her father and have them reunite.

Me2 introduces us to 2 characters, it gives us some hints that these 2 characters are in face Aleena and Liara's father so when we get to me3 and this is revealed to be the case we have buildup and the character reveals are not just 2 random characters we never met or have no idea who they are.

Yes they could have just left these things in the backround but then they could have done that with most of the backstories and info we get about places and characters, the game and world would just be that much duller if the did so. Its the little titbits the little nods we get, the more backstory and character information we receive that fleshs out both the characters and the universe itself.

Lastly you call it just tossing random storythreads into the game, but again your missing the point, its by tossing in these storythreads and by tying some of them up that the game moves from being just another game into something more, a trilogy. They could have not introduced us to Conrad Verner or to Emily Wong or countless other NPC's who play little or no importance to the overall plot but instead by introducing us to these characters by showing us a litle of their random storythread they enrich the experience.

[Jeth Prime]

Dreadwing 67 wrote...

@Jeth Prime
There are too many similarities to just dismiss these two characters never met. We really don't get definitive proof, but from the way Aria talks, and what Wrex said, you can't help but wonder if Aleena became Aria.

Now to what I have to offer: I thought someone in-game said that Aria was not her real name. It would make me think that she changed it to Aria to hide it from Wrex and possibly others from her previous life as a merc.

It would be awesome to see two characters, one an icon and hero to me, the other rather fascinating, to meet once more under dire circumstances.

What similarities? Aria was a merc? There are lots of asari merc. There isn't much of anything there....

Aria isn't her real name. Doesn't mean it was once Aleena.(I don't remember anyone saying that, but I doubt it's her real name).

Why would she be hiding from Wrex? They aren't realy enemies. They were friends. He was paid by some volus to kill her. When he failed, he remained with the volus as a body guard unttill he died. Wrex has no reason to kill her.

When Wrex spoke of Aleena, he didn't say anything that would link the two, other than that they're both asari, and have hhistory as being mercs. And Aria never said anything about a krogan she was once friends with.

There's nothing there.

[Squidbreath]

Quite possible, and something I'd kill to see. Literally kill. I squished a stray baby rat underfoot once. fun.

[alperez]

Jeth

Its the little similarities that make all the difference, the things Wrex said about Aleena and the things Aria said about herself are similar enough for the 2 to mesh.

Of course there are other mercs, and of course she doesn't say her real name was Aleena if she did that would be pretty poor writing and miss the point of revealing it later.

What could Wrex have said when he spoke about Aleena, he told you a story and that was it, did you want the story to end, Her name is Aria and she's a showgirl.

Why would Aria who's protected her real idenitity and who reveals only a small bit about herself reveal in conversation to Shepard who she really is, oh btw say hello to Wrex for me, I'm Aleena don't you know, may have been a facepalm moment.

The whole point of things was to give you just enough info to speculate without blatantly coming right out and saying this is Aleena, its to give you the possibility so when its revealed (if its revealed) you don't just go, WTF.

[LPPrince]

Jeth Prime wrote...
There's nothing there.

Aleena-

*A mercenary friend of Wrex
*Got contracted to kill Wrex as he was contracted to kill her
*Fought on a ship till she found a way to escape and avoid killing Wrex
*Left him a note saying "Better luck next time"

Aria-

*Says she was a mercenary in the past
*Says that Patriarch isn't the first krogan she's pissed off
*Says "Sometimes you'd rather disappear than be forced to kill someone"
*Says "Better luck next time" to Shepard when he stops digging into her past

As far as her name is concerned, Aria says she's had a few. So-

If Aria isn't Aleena, I'll be surprised.

There's too many hints for this to be accidental.