108 réponses à ce sujet

[helios0684]

I always thought of Tevinter as Thedas' answer to "Thay" from the Forgotten Realms. Powerful mage oligarchy, slave based economy, so on and so forth. I think there are plenty of opportunities to build up Tevinter in the lore beyond being a mook factory, but from the perspective of a game setting? I don't think the story that would unfold there would be pleasant at all; rather than gray-on-gray morality, you'd be stuck with black-on-gray and sometimes black would win out everytime simply because it was the most pragmatic... though if you did spin it right, it might prove to be one of the best stories ever told. Necessary evil for the greater good type stuff.

[CrimsonZephyr]

helios0684 wrote...

I don't think the story that would unfold there would be pleasant at all; rather than gray-on-gray morality, you'd be stuck with black-on-gray and sometimes black would win out everytime simply because it was the most pragmatic... though if you did spin it right, it might prove to be one of the best stories ever told. Necessary evil for the greater good type stuff.

You could have a story with an anti-heroic, borderline villain protagonist ripping through Tevinter society, kicking the dog when he has to, betraying and double crossing people according to the requirements of his plan, and then ultimately succeeding in cleaning up and reforming society through sheer force of will mixed in with both carrot and stick: incentives for the loyal, ruthlessness for the disloyal. Think of this Tevinter being an ideal version of Machiavelli's Prince. It doesn't have to be a setting filled with Chaotic Evil blood mages killing slaves by the hundred for no reason at all.

Modifié par CrimsonZephyr, 13 juillet 2011 - 10:49 .

[Vit246]

Despite how deliberately one-dimensional Bioware seems to have painted Tevinter as, I really want a future DA game to be set in Tevinter. It's so rich and unique compared to every other DA nation. So much potential. I even have some rough ideas for character origins.

1. Minrathous Circle Mage - This is my favorite and most coveted. You are a Human or Elven mage apprentice to a magister with enough political/economic/military influence to make things interesting. Intennse competition with other mages. Summon and command demons like all those enemy NPC mages. Learn powerful sophisticated magics that make non-Tevinter magic utterly pale in comparison like mere children's toys. At some point, you can take an apprentice of your own as a full mage or a magister. Perhaps begin a forbidden romance with a slave?

2. Slave - You are a Human or City/Dalish Elf Warrior or Rogue who sells himself into slavery or gets forcefully captured by slavers. Either way, your combat skills turn you into a gladiator to participate in the Tevinter Imperial gladiator games. How you get out eventually, its hard to decide. Perhaps you keep fighting until you are granted title as Champion and/or freedom? Or you earn just enough coin to purchase freedom? Or a Magister takes an interest in you and buys you as a slave. You work for the magister as a Warrior mercenary/bodyguard/Templar or a Rogue assassin. Maybe for some reason, you join the Imperial armies, rise through the ranks, fight Qunari and other enemies of Tevinter?

EDIT:

3. Dwarf - Not sure how to work this out. I don't even care for Dwarf characters much. Both of the only remaining Dwarf cities are too far from any Tevinter territory. Maybe your Dwarf family could be commoners OR a noble house established in Tevinter. A Dwarf character would probably be inevitably involved in the family trade of lyrium and/or smithing enchanted armours and weapons. Various dealings with magisters and other powerful people. Lyrium mining in the Deep Roads. Golems.

Modifié par Vit246, 14 juillet 2011 - 01:29 .

[CrimsonZephyr]

I like the sound of that. We need a game with origins set in Tevinter.

[Harid]

Vit246 wrote...

Despite how deliberately one-dimensional Bioware seems to have painted Tevinter as, I really want a future DA game to be set in Tevinter. It's so rich and unique compared to every other DA nation. So much potential. I even have some rough ideas for character origins.

1. Minrathous Circle Mage - You are a Human or Elven mage apprentice to a magister with enough political/economic/military influence to make things interesting. At some point, you can take an apprentice of your own as a full mage or a magister. Perhaps begin a forbidden romance with a slave?

2. Slave - You are a Human or City/Dalish Elf Warrior or Rogue who sells himself into slavery or gets forcefully captured by slavers. Either way, your combat skills turn you into a gladiator to participate in the Tevinter Imperial gladiator games. How you get out eventually, its hard to decide. Perhaps you keep fighting until you are granted title as Champion and/or freedom? Or you earn just enough coin to purchase freedom? Or a Magister takes an interest in you and buys you as a slave. You work for the magister as a Warrior mercenary/bodyguard or a Rogue assassin. Maybe for some reason, you join the Imperial armies, rise through the ranks, fight Qunari and other enemies of Tevinter?

EDIT:

3. Dwarf - Not sure how to work this out. I don't even care for Dwarf characters much. Both of the only remaining Dwarf cities are too far from any Tevinter territory. Maybe your Dwarf family could be commoners OR a noble house established in Tevinter. A Dwarf character would probably be inevitably involved in the family trade of lyrium and/or smithing enchanted armours and weapons. Various dealings with magisters and other powerful people. Lyrium mining in the Deep Roads. Golems.

Dwarves freely trade with the Imperium, and I have to assume repair the Juggernauts.  They should have a relatvely free life in the Imperium.  You could easily be from Kal Sharok given it's proximity to The Imperium, I mean, they've had 1000 years to dig a hole to the surface, I have trouble believing they haven't done it yet.

I don't think people could deal with being a slave, though.  Furthermore the stories are too drastically divergent from each other for me to believe Bioware would ever do it.  You would be a slave in all three settings, or a Circle Mage/Fake Tevinter Templar (I use fake because Tevinter Templars are pretty much just the circle's army) to merge the stories together, that's the Bioware way.

I'm personally more interested in Antiva and Rivain, though. . .

Modifié par Harid, 14 juillet 2011 - 01:41 .

[Vit246]

*shrug* Like I said. Just throwing out rough ideas. I have not restricted myself with an personal idea for an overall story/plot and main quest. Maybe a 6th Blight or a Qunari invasion?

You don't have to be a slave in 2 of the settings. The Mage could be the noble son or daughter of a noble house (of mages or a magister). I see no reason for a Dwarf to be a slave.

Modifié par Vit246, 14 juillet 2011 - 01:34 .

[Harid]

Vit246 wrote...

*shrug* Like I said. Just throwing out rough ideas. I have not restricted myself with an personal idea for an overall story/plot and main quest. Maybe a 6th Blight or a Qunari invasion?

You don't have to be a slave in 2 of the settings. The Mage could be the noble son or daughter of a noble house (of mages or a magister). I see no reason for a Dwarf to be a slave.

Most people play human characters.  It would be a problem for them, I'd assume.  I don't personally respect Bioware writing enough to make me think that they will really make being a slave as grim as it would be, based on their history, so I would not really like Bioware to even attempt it.   I mean, look at the City Elf Origin.  People don't even treat you like an elf once you leave the prologue.

I also think it's too soon for another Blight, but Bioware can do whatever it wants, I suppose.  And even though I expect it (for the Mage/Templar war,) I don't see how the Qunari could invade anything given the death of the Arishok.

But then again, he probably shouldn't have been in Kirkwall in the first place, so, like I said, it's Bioware's lore.  Whatever.

Modifié par Harid, 14 juillet 2011 - 02:07 .

[DRTJR]

Harid wrote...
  I mean, look at the City Elf Origin.  People don't even treat you like an elf once you leave the prologue.

that's probibly because
A) your a grey warden a Order known to be BAMFs  amoung BAMFs.
your hevaly armed and posibly Armored,
C) Your tavaling with three other armed and possibly armored companions.
D) half of the time your covered in the blood of your enemies.
E) Your activly saving their hides. 

[Rifneno]

I don't have a link to the post and it was ages ago so take it with a grain of salt, but I recall a dev posting once upon a time that they didn't want to make another game about a Blight.

[Plaintiff]

Less restrictions on magical research and if I really reach, I could say that a senate suggests that it's more progressive in a political sense, even if I don't agree with the whole "everyone's a mass murdering slave-owner" bit.

We don't have a lot of information about Tevinter. Fenris says it's an awful place, and it probably is, but his experiences are mostly limited to his time with Danarius. There could easily be magisters who aren't child-sacrificing blood mages, he just hasn't met them.

It is true that the only people we see coming out of Tevinter are slavers and/or slaves, but I think that's to be expected. Everyone outside Tevinter despises it, thanks to Chantry propaganda. Magisters have no power outside of Tevinter, and if Anders is right, even merely wearing symbols of the Tevinter chantry is apt to get you executed. With that considered; why would anyone who lives in Tevinter ever want to leave? The only people with anything to gain from doing so are slaves (freedom) and slavers (more slaves). Even if there are those within Tevinter who find it largely abhorrent, moving away would mean leaving behind everything they know and facing prejudice and religious persecution on top of that. If there are a lot of "good" Tevinter natives hanging around Ferelden and Kirkwall, they're unlikely to admit to any Tom, Dick or Hawke they cross paths with.

Modifié par Plaintiff, 14 juillet 2011 - 02:27 .

[Gabey5]

they are keeping the qunari at bay

Tevinter: You're welcome

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Are they really? Even discounting what Fenris said about them I never got the impression that the Qunari are locked in a full scale war with Tevinter. When they last fought a full scale war, they fought the rest of Thedas as well.

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 15 juillet 2011 - 07:55 .

[DRTJR]

I got impression that the tevinters were in a more skirmish style war than an all out war.

[CrimsonZephyr]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

Are they really? Even discounting what Fenris said about them I never got the impression that the Qunari are locked in a full scale war with Tevinter. When they last fought a full scale war, they fought the rest of Thedas as well.

Tevinter is the only nation that has not signed the Treart of Llomerryn. They and the Qunari are warring over Seheron. Fenris mentions that Tevinter is experiencing a resurgence. Might be why the Qunari are still stuck fighting them.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

I don't remember him saying that but if he did, he also says the Qunari could conquer the Imperium if they really wanted to. I never got the impression that the Tevinter's efforts are really anything troubling enough to them so as to be preventing the Qunari from attacking the rest of Thedas.

[TEWR]

I bet the Qunari are drinking tea and are all nonchalant about the Tevinters constantly attacking them. They're sophisticated like that.

[Rifneno]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

I bet the Qunari are drinking tea and are all nonchalant about the Tevinters constantly attacking them. They're sophisticated like that.

Of course.  Don't you know?  The Qunari could totally take over all of Thedas and wipe out the darkspawn in an afternoon.  Then establish colonies on the moon by dusk.  I know, 'cuz an amnesiac with no bias whatsoever told me so without elaborating.

[TheBlackBaron]

Filament wrote...

Indeed, the qunari really are the most civilized nation in Thedas.

I've now got this image of a quanari taking a boat ride into the heart of Seheron to take down the rogue Tevinter magister Kurzen. 

[CrimsonZephyr]

Filament wrote...

Indeed, the qunari really are the most civilized nation in Thedas.

Qunari society sounds like a bootstomping fascist nightmare to me, what with having every aspect of your life history set out and dictated by an ambiguous group of religious leaders. Oh, and say I want to be an intellectual, rather than a soldier grunt as was dictated, they turn you into a mindless drone and work you to death in a mining camp. Sounds like a fantastic place.

Modifié par CrimsonZephyr, 16 juillet 2011 - 06:24 .

[CrimsonZephyr]

Filament wrote...

CrimsonZephyr wrote...

Filament wrote...

Indeed, the qunari really are the most civilized nation in Thedas.

Qunari society sounds like a bootstomping fascist nightmare to me, what with having every aspect of your life history set out and dictated by an ambiguous group of religious leaders. Oh, and say I want to be an intellectual, rather than a soldier grunt as was dictated, they turn you into a mindless drone and work you to death in a mining camp. Sounds like a fantastic place.

Nonsense!

How so, aside from the gunpowder?

[TheBlackBaron]

CrimsonZephyr wrote...

Filament wrote...

CrimsonZephyr wrote...

Filament wrote...

Indeed, the qunari really are the most civilized nation in Thedas.

Qunari society sounds like a bootstomping fascist nightmare to me, what with having every aspect of your life history set out and dictated by an ambiguous group of religious leaders. Oh, and say I want to be an intellectual, rather than a soldier grunt as was dictated, they turn you into a mindless drone and work you to death in a mining camp. Sounds like a fantastic place.

Nonsense!

How so, aside from the gunpowder?

What you described is more a caste system than fascism. 

Plus, those collars those Saarebas collars are totally ****in'. 

[Rifneno]

CrimsonZephyr wrote...

Qunari society sounds like a bootstomping fascist nightmare to me, what with having every aspect of your life history set out and dictated by an ambiguous group of religious leaders. Oh, and say I want to be an intellectual, rather than a soldier grunt as was dictated, they turn you into a mindless drone and work you to death in a mining camp. Sounds like a fantastic place.

I almost feel bad for the nail's head after being hit so hard.

TheBlackBaron wrote...

What you described is more a caste system than fascism.

Let's ask Oxford!

(in general use) extreme right-wing, authoritarian, or intolerant views or practice.
The term Fascism was first used of the totalitarian right-wing nationalist regime of Mussolini in Italy (1922–43), and the regimes of the ****s in Germany and Franco in Spain were also fascist. Fascism tends to include a belief in the supremacy of one national or ethnic group, a contempt for democracy, an insistence on obedience to a powerful leader , and a strong demagogic approach

Let's see... authoritarian... intolerant views... belief in the supremacy of one nation or ethnic group... insistance on obedience...

Yeah, we're gonna have to go with "fascism."