Jedi Master of Orion wrote...
Obviously they don't all have the same level of zealotry. Otherwise there wouldn't be any tal'vashoth. Most of the qunari we've met all are on special missions for the qunari head of state so it makes sense they'd be the most loyal. I didn't call you a troll because you had a different opinion on one of the charcaters, I called you one because you talked at lengeth about how you supported genocide, and that is a principle that can be applied to more than just the game. Perhaps I was wrong to accuse you of being a troll and for that I'm sorry, but the fact is that's often the type of thing that people out in the rest of the internet outside of BSN would use the troll. Saying that an entire group of people deserves to be murderered is definately something generally earns a great deal of negative attention so it's a common tactic. I don't know is really the point or not, becuase the discourtesy started long before that.
- Fair enough. I'm certainly willing to forget the whole thing and start fresh if you are. For the record, I supported simply wiping out the Qunari because I don't believe there can be a permanent peace with them. Leaving them be is only letting them recover strength until they feel they can brutally conquer a later generation. And if that generation only forces them into submission, then they'll repeat it again a few hundred years after that. Eventually, they'll wipe out every other culture, or they'll be wiped out themselves. I certainly don't say they need to be wiped out with glee. It's a sad and terrible thing. But if they're not willing to drop their belief that it's their right or duty to "enlighten" the '"ignorant" then I see letting them live only as endangering the future generations of free peoples.
- True, there's varying levels. But we've never seen a qunari question or disagree with the qun. Either they at least all believe in it, or the qun demands their heads if they question it. Either way it's not very reassuring.
Harid wrote...
As far as I know the Qunari do indoctrinate non Qunari they conquer.
I thought you generally had a choice to follow the qun, and get situated in a certain niche, or join the salt mines (I dunno if it's salt, it's just horrible mine work), and given between those choices, I'd probably join the Qun. Generally doing your education, you are converting to the Qun. It cannot be drug induced, because if it was, why we still got Tal'Vashoth?
Because you don't understand how drugs work I guess? Ambien knocks most people out like a light. The maximum safe dosage of it didn't even make me a bit drowsy. It might just be that Tal-Vashoth have a higher resistance to whatever is used. This is especially likely when you consider that most psychiatric drugs have wildly varying levels of effect from patient to patient.
And Rifneno is a troll. Don't apologize to him, he's come into threads and openly insulted people who don't agree with him all over these boards.
Oh, I'm a troll now? Last time I was just "insane" because I disagreed with your "free mages = omz blud mages 'n teventar!" assumption. Nice to know I moved up from "detached from reality" to "desperate attention seeker.":wizard:
MichaelFinnegan wrote...
The existence of the Tal-Vashoth is perhaps a strong indication that there is no drug-induced brainwashing at work. Or even if it were, that its effects can somehow be reversed. I think that Tal-Vashoth are a bunch of Kossith who have simply become disillusioned with the Qunari way of life.
We won't really know much until we get a chance to question one at length. So far all we've got is a 30 second conversation with the mercenary who doesn't fight for money. Oh, and Armaas I guess. But all he would say is that "the Qun is a lie!" Whatever the hell that means.
Since I also said something about this, I get the impression that the Qun demands absolute obedience - to a life of purpose (who decides that purpose is up for debate, I guess). That being the case I'd simply say that I'd expect the great majority of the qunari are loyal to the Qun; in the sense that, you either are qunari or you are Tal-Vashoth.
Which is exactly why their culture will stagnate and not evolve. Places like Kirkwall will a Utopia when the Qunari are still murdering their short order cooks if they lose a spatula.
At which point I guess you'd lose the sense of "I."
Looking at the willing qunari converts in DA2, I see a great many (perhaps all?) were city elves, living in the alienage of Lowtown. Theirs was a case of hopelessness and perhaps the way of the Qun did indeed offer better than what they had as second class citizens living under wretched conditions in Kirkwall.
The question naturally arises to me: if someone is better off, what would motivate him/her to go the way of the Qun? I mean why do it? What would that someone get?
They get to live. Remember, Qunari generally convert by force. The only well-off people they get in peacetime, I'd imagine, are idiot kids going through a rebellious phase. Yes Seamus, I mean you.
Edit: Oh. And I feel this is worth mentioning... I checked the phrasing the Arishok used. Taken the "She said you take elves?" dialogue after Blackpowder Courtesy, the Arishok says "We did not come equipped to indoctrinate." Not only does say indoctrinate, the much more eyebrow raising part is that he said equipped.
Modifié par Rifneno, 18 juillet 2011 - 07:37 .
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