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Changes that made you scratch your head and say "Huh?!"


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#1
Robtachi

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Off the top of my head...
  • Wholesale elimination of item/weapon/armor descriptions and lore, except for unique codex entries
  • Anders' VA change, while Cullen, who is the same VA if I am not mistaken, got to keep his rather than the lesser character getting the change
To clarify, I'm trying to identify some of the more minor differences from DA:O to DAII that didn't necessarily make or break the experience for you, but nevertheless nag at you for one reason or another.  The main concerns with the direction DAII took are well documented, but what are some of the little things that changed that you felt just didn't need to, and kept bugging you throughout?

The Anders VA thing is a particular sticking point for me.  I don't know if this has been addressed by Bioware/EA as to the reason, but it was kind of offputting to hear the voice I had become so fond of from Awakening coming out of a minor character's mouth and have the person I was supposed to be already familiar with sound like a stranger.

#2
Hatchetman77

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The short development cycle is really the only thing that made me go "Huh?!".  Everything else kinda makes sense considering the devs had to do something completly new and absolutly no time to do it.  I can see why the corners were cut and the game was made to the minimum standars and not to the best of BioWare's ability.  Whoever set the timetable for this game set everyone else involved up to fail. 

#3
Cutlass Jack

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As far as the Anders VA is concerned, they've already addressed it. Greg Ellis didn't have the time available to commit to doing Anders, but did have time for the smaller part of Cullen.

#4
Robtachi

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Cutlass Jack wrote...

As far as the Anders VA is concerned, they've already addressed it. Greg Ellis didn't have the time available to commit to doing Anders, but did have time for the smaller part of Cullen.


Well then. Sort that from the "Huh?!" pile to just the customary disappointed "Ahh..." <_<

#5
Robtachi

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Hatchetman77 wrote...

The short development cycle is really the only thing that made me go "Huh?!".  Everything else kinda makes sense considering the devs had to do something completly new and absolutly no time to do it.  I can see why the corners were cut and the game was made to the minimum standars and not to the best of BioWare's ability.  Whoever set the timetable for this game set everyone else involved up to fail. 


Topic -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You :D

Let's stick to the little things. Plenty of discussions already revolve around the main issue of the dev cycle/perceived rushed-ness of the game.

#6
Hatchetman77

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Robtachi wrote...

Hatchetman77 wrote...

The short development cycle is really the only thing that made me go "Huh?!".  Everything else kinda makes sense considering the devs had to do something completly new and absolutly no time to do it.  I can see why the corners were cut and the game was made to the minimum standars and not to the best of BioWare's ability.  Whoever set the timetable for this game set everyone else involved up to fail. 


Topic -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You :D

Let's stick to the little things. Plenty of discussions already revolve around the main issue of the dev cycle/perceived rushed-ness of the game.


So the point of this thread is to nitpick at flaws without putting those flaws into context.  Gotcha.  My apologies.

#7
In Exile

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1) The recycled areas. They sucked in ME1 and we ranted. And then DA2 goes out and makes even main quest areas recycled? Huh?

2) Removing the ability to speak to companions any time and turning it into a quest. ME1 and ME2 also used cinematics and quest progress to advance conversation trees to spread them out, but you could come chat with your companions at any point. I don't see why DA2 couldn't just loop the trees. Hell, they did it with Aveline's first conversation! Try it out - talk to her in the Viscount's keep, and she even has a ''let's pick up from where we dropped off'' dialogue.

#8
Savber100

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1. The removal of the isometric camera. Seriously? Before that was announced, I was confident that there was NO way that Bioware would have taken out such a integral part of DA:O. When I heard it was removed, I was convinced that Bioware had a good reason. What was the reason? So we could see the pretty graphics that the DA team had sooo tirelessly worked on.

Yeah.. when I heard about that, my faith in Bioware just kinda did a free fall.

#9
Chromie

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Savber100 wrote...

1. The removal of the isometric camera. Seriously? Before that was announced, I was confident that there was NO way that Bioware would have taken out such a integral part of DA:O. When I heard it was removed, I was convinced that Bioware had a good reason. What was the reason? So we could see the pretty graphics that the DA team had sooo tirelessly worked on.

Yeah.. when I heard about that, my faith in Bioware just kinda did a free fall.



What was the reason again? To look at the ceiling?

To add your "huh" change...
2. The darkspawn design. They look like Skeletor.
3. Adding in DX11. It doesn't do much for the game and doesn't look that much different in DX9. If Bioware had released a much better looking DX11 patch like Crysis 2 (still hate the game) did I would be fine with it. Could have used that dev time for..another map.

Modifié par Ringo12, 13 juillet 2011 - 09:46 .


#10
caradoc2000

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Savber100 wrote...

1. The removal of the isometric camera. Seriously? Before that was announced, I was confident that there was NO way that Bioware would have taken out such a integral part of DA:O.

Integral part? The console versions of DAO never had an isometric camera.

#11
Chromie

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caradoc2000 wrote...

Savber100 wrote...

1. The removal of the isometric camera. Seriously? Before that was announced, I was confident that there was NO way that Bioware would have taken out such a integral part of DA:O.

Integral part? The console versions of DAO never had an isometric camera.


It was integral on PC. At least on consoles the camera detaches from the character your using during an AOE. We don't have that. Which is stupid. We don't have a detachable camera or ISO view. It's hard to setup AoE

#12
Yrkoon

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Ringo12 wrote...

Savber100 wrote...

1. The removal of the isometric camera. Seriously? Before that was announced, I was confident that there was NO way that Bioware would have taken out such a integral part of DA:O. When I heard it was removed, I was convinced that Bioware had a good reason. What was the reason? So we could see the pretty graphics that the DA team had sooo tirelessly worked on.

Yeah.. when I heard about that, my faith in Bioware just kinda did a free fall.



What was the reason again? To look at the ceiling?

In fact, that was the initial official explanation.  I think since then they eventually  admitted the real reason that they eliminated the Iso-view camera:    to get more Uniformity  across the platforms or something like that.  I'll see if I can dig up the quote later.


But regardless, that excuse is silly too.  Why couldn't they have done it the other way around, you know, give all three platforms an Iso-view  camera  option?

Modifié par Yrkoon, 13 juillet 2011 - 10:03 .


#13
Chromie

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Yrkoon wrote...

Ringo12 wrote...

Savber100 wrote...

1. The removal of the isometric camera. Seriously? Before that was announced, I was confident that there was NO way that Bioware would have taken out such a integral part of DA:O. When I heard it was removed, I was convinced that Bioware had a good reason. What was the reason? So we could see the pretty graphics that the DA team had sooo tirelessly worked on.

Yeah.. when I heard about that, my faith in Bioware just kinda did a free fall.



What was the reason again? To look at the ceiling?

In fact, that was the initial official explanation.  I think since then they eventually  admitted the real reason that they eliminated the Iso-view camera:    to get more Uniformity  across the platforms or something like that.  I'll see if I can dig up the quote later.


But regardless, that excuse is silly too.  Why couldn't they have done it the other way around, you know, give all three platforms an Iso-view  camera  option?



Too much work really Image IPB

#14
Annie_Dear

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Cutlass Jack wrote...

As far as the Anders VA is concerned, they've already addressed it. Greg Ellis didn't have the time available to commit to doing Anders, but did have time for the smaller part of Cullen.


That's weird. I saw Greg Ellis wonder about the same thing on his Facebook-page.

#15
Fallstar

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Annie_Dear wrote...

Cutlass Jack wrote...

As far as the Anders VA is concerned, they've already addressed it. Greg Ellis didn't have the time available to commit to doing Anders, but did have time for the smaller part of Cullen.


That's weird. I saw Greg Ellis wonder about the same thing on his Facebook-page.


Though they sound fairly similar, it was a bit jarring and immersion breaking hearing the other guys voice for Anders. Wish they'd kept the original, he made the character feel really alive. 

#16
Kaiser Shepard

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1. The just one city thing / lack of a journey
2. Lack of any high level choices
3. Being railroaded into a position of so-called importance, yet doing nothing with it

#17
Guest_Guest12345_*

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Changing Ander's voice actor.

Reuse of maps and assets.

WHY????? (rhetorical)

#18
Salaya

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 The absence of skills. I know many people found this irrelevant, but I was terribly confused about it. I completely disagree with the reasons adduced to justify it. Since I really like to work on characters with strong diplomatic skills, the poor implementation of it on "Hawke's character" and that thing about letting companions speak for you made me feel very unconfortable. Even on Mass Effect 2 we had to spend some effort on build up diplomatic dialogs. 

 The fixed dialogs with companions. Some people say that dialogs are better presented with DA2 system, but I completely disagree. The sole opportunity of initiate dialog at will makes companions way more deep and plausible. I'm not saying that dialog was perfect in Origins, but the idea they came up with DA2 is worse in almost every aspect.
 
 Wave system. I can't understand how anyone could have any fun with this. I really like the fast paced battles, but constant flow of enemies coming from everywhere made me uncapable of having anything more than two playthorughs. And the second one was very frustrating. The worst thing about this is that some battles are actually very fun in the first wave. But after that, one wonders... why they have done this? 

 Re-used environments. Little to say about this. Discussed way too many times. It made me feel as if I was playing a self programmed game on my MSX. And I am a horrible programmer. 

 Equipment. Tons and tons of useless things without any kind of description and sometimes, even with the same name and different properties. I like when I find standard equipment or useless weaponry, but the absurd amount of almost-random pieces of crap on DA2 makes me feel dizzy. How is that Im not able to understand why is this an imporvement over Origins inventory and equipment system? And let's forget about the important items that are not present, have a weird question mark icon, or are treated just as "trash". So, the elven keeper gives me an important book with lot of meaning... and is crap? What the...?!

 Teleporting mages. Im sorry, but I don't buy the explanations we had about this. Seeing mages teleporting was one of those confusing and disappointing moments on DA2 for me. 

 Simplified secondary quests. Secondary quests on Origins were pretty poor. But in DA2 are even worse! I don't get it. The worst of the bunch are those about giving random objects to people, but also the "big" ones, as those that involve killing some important demons. DA2 could have been brilliant just by refining this, because many of the quests had lot of potential on them. 

 Restricted weapons and styles. When I started my second playthroug as a warrior I was very excited about creating another dual wielding sword fighter. Imagine my face when I discovered that warriors are "unable" to fight with two weapons. But not only that... they cant equip bows or crossbows! And even more... all weapons are restricted to their native class! Again, I'm unable to understand the positive things about this change. Following OP expression, it made scratch my head and say "Huh?!".

 New artistic design. I'm sorry, I don't like the new art direction. As I have stated many times, I think changes in graphical and artistic appearence should be way more subtle. Animations, armors, weapons, persons... everything seems absolutely out of scale. As I said, I like the fast paced comba, but the animations that give form to it are ridiculous, for example. Elves look like pale beggars with donkey ears and horrid noses. Flemeth... well. You get my idea. I simply don't like those changes.

Well, probably Im forgetting something, but thats all for now ^_^ 

#19
Icinix

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Anders, Art Direction, Tactical Camera, 7 - 10 year timeline where nothing changed, length of development, reused areas,paratrooping enemies, mages that curse blood mage but use it, the ending, the darkspawn and elves changes (kind of offset by the awesomeness of the Quanri changes - but not totally) the "we dont like choice - it makes the game more cinematic without it" attitude the game seemed to convey.

Just off the top of my head.

#20
Shadow of Light Dragon

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Annie_Dear wrote...

Cutlass Jack wrote...

As far as the Anders VA is concerned, they've already addressed it. Greg Ellis didn't have the time available to commit to doing Anders, but did have time for the smaller part of Cullen.


That's weird. I saw Greg Ellis wonder about the same thing on his Facebook-page.


*puzzled* I just checked Greg's page myself, and yeah...he stated he had no idea why he wasn't voicing Anders. In fact, prior to the new VO being announced he said he assumed he would be reprising the role.

Odd. Probably because Cullen and Anders having the same VO would have been a bit jarring if you happen to have them in the same dialogue? He did Cullen in DA:O too didn't he?

Modifié par Shadow of Light Dragon, 13 juillet 2011 - 12:47 .


#21
Annie_Dear

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Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

Annie_Dear wrote...

Cutlass Jack wrote...

As far as the Anders VA is concerned, they've already addressed it. Greg Ellis didn't have the time available to commit to doing Anders, but did have time for the smaller part of Cullen.


That's weird. I saw Greg Ellis wonder about the same thing on his Facebook-page.


*puzzled* I just checked Greg's page myself, and yeah...he stated he had no idea why he wasn't voicing Anders. In fact, prior to the new VO being announced he said he assumed he would be reprising the role.

Odd. Probably because Cullen and Anders having the same VO would have been a bit jarring if you happen to have them in the same dialogue? He did Cullen in DA:O too didn't he?


Ellis voiced every other NPC in Origins, as did the guy who voiced Jowan. That's no excuse.

#22
Cutlass Jack

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Annie_Dear wrote...

That's weird. I saw Greg Ellis wonder about the same thing on his Facebook-page.


Sorry I don't track Facebook pages...for anyone really. I only know what I read here from the developers. In this case:

David Gaider wrote...

The Grey Nayr wrote...
Greg Ellis should have stayed his voice actor IMO. Anders had a much bigger role and more facetime than Cullen before and during DAII so that's the better part to have. But I doubt that's an area of the game you have much control of. :P


I do actually have a lot of say in voice actors, but in this case it was out of our control. Shenanigans meant we could only have Greg Ellis for a smaller role-- so Cullen it was. It didn't bother me on the whole, as I like Cullen and having both characters present was going to be an issue no matter what, but in this case it's simply how the cookie crumbled.


from this thread.  I'll admit I was applying my own interpretation of the post earlier. But it read to me like there was a scheduling conflict. Take from that what you will.

Modifié par Cutlass Jack, 13 juillet 2011 - 01:49 .


#23
Annie_Dear

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Cutlass Jack wrote...

Annie_Dear wrote...

That's weird. I saw Greg Ellis wonder about the same thing on his Facebook-page.


Sorry I don't track Facebook pages...for anyone really. I only know what I read here from the developers. In this case:

David Gaider wrote...

The Grey Nayr wrote...
Greg Ellis should have stayed his voice actor IMO. Anders had a much bigger role and more facetime than Cullen before and during DAII so that's the better part to have. But I doubt that's an area of the game you have much control of. :P


I do actually have a lot of say in voice actors, but in this case it was out of our control. Shenanigans meant we could only have Greg Ellis for a smaller role-- so Cullen it was. It didn't bother me on the whole, as I like Cullen and having both characters present was going to be an issue no matter what, but in this case it's simply how the cookie crumbled.


from this thread.  I'll admit I was applying my own interpretation of the post earlier. But it read to me like there was a scheduling conflict. Take from that what you will.


Interesting. Greg Ellis however makes it sound like he already recorded Anders' lines for DA2 when they changed voice actors.

#24
sphinxess

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Leliana - she goes from being a heretic in DA:O <maker is still around>. to ummm....maybe she just cracked like an egg?

#25
In Exile

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Yrkoon wrote...
But regardless, that excuse is silly too.  Why couldn't they have done it the other way around, you know, give all three platforms an Iso-view  camera  option?


It just doesn't work on consoles. You're giving them point & click combat without a mouse (which is really ****). I don't see why the PC can't get a true detachable camera for AoEs, though.