66 réponses à ce sujet

[Xewaka]

In Exile wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...
But regardless, that excuse is silly too.  Why couldn't they have done it the other way around, you know, give all three platforms an Iso-view  camera  option?

It just doesn't work on consoles. You're giving them point & click combat without a mouse (which is really ****). I don't see why the PC can't get a true detachable camera for AoEs, though.

Because they didn't make this game for PC first, then port it to consoles. It feels the other way around, though.

[Sutekh]

sphinxess wrote...

Leliana - she goes from being a heretic in DA:O <maker is still around>. to ummm....maybe she just cracked like an egg?

I have a theory that she was in fact putting on an act and has been dead a spy all along, sent by the Divine to keep tabs on the Wardens situation. 

Now for little things that made me go "huh?"

- The change in stealth mechanics, although I got used to it.
- Lack of items description.
- Hurlocks.

And certainly many other little details, but I'm drawing a blank at the moment. I usually move on and forget after the initial "Huh?" for little things.

[Feraele]

In Exile wrote...

1) The recycled areas. They sucked in ME1 and we ranted. And then DA2 goes out and makes even main quest areas recycled? Huh?

2) Removing the ability to speak to companions any time and turning it into a quest. ME1 and ME2 also used cinematics and quest progress to advance conversation trees to spread them out, but you could come chat with your companions at any point. I don't see why DA2 couldn't just loop the trees. Hell, they did it with Aveline's first conversation! Try it out - talk to her in the Viscount's keep, and she even has a ''let's pick up from where we dropped off'' dialogue.

First time they did that was in Awakening,  where the only time you could talk to your companions was by clicking on a tree or a statue etc.   That's where the changes began.  That's where we were informed that we wouldn't be getting the banter that we were used to at the camp...basically.    Thing was, how do you know what item to click on unless you spend time searching every screen in the game.  Immersion breaking for me.    As to these new changes, so much has changed, it's like a totally foreign game,  one unknown to me, even down to the controls.    THIS of course was to woo the console players, and why was the overhead view removed?   

The skill trees resemble those of DA: Legends exactly...simplified and anime "ized".     Why?   Unable to equip team mates.  Why?    

But this has all been said before.  Huge collection of junk in your inventory..and you needed to search high and low for a danged vendor, .........?

I am still on the "go fetch it" quests, so far there is nothing in the story ( what story??) to pull me in, its just a series of actions....that I am totally not interested in.     (chapter one)

Modifié par Feraele, 13 juillet 2011 - 05:15 .

[In Exile]

Xewaka wrote...
Because they didn't make this game for PC first, then port it to consoles. It feels the other way around, though.

Why remove the camera outright, though? They could have kept it in. 

Thing was, how do you know what item to click on unless you spend time searching every screen in the game.  Immersion breaking for me. 

That's the thing that got me. To be fair to Bioware, though, they did scrap that for DA2. While they made other mistakes, they responded to our feedback (at least recognizing that it's a bad feature).

Modifié par In Exile, 13 juillet 2011 - 05:20 .

[Feraele]

One other thing, the darkspawn. Sorry but I think they were more fierce looking and scarey in DA:O I don't like the new stylized versions of the darkspawn. Especially the ogres.

Why was there a need to change those?    

Alot of things in DA 2 make me go Huh?!?!     There was no need to change alot of what they changed,  they fixed what wasn't broken, they could have saved the production money for alot of those things and added more to the game instead.      

Modifié par Feraele, 13 juillet 2011 - 05:26 .

[Kail Ashton]

I have to say, i am indeed puzled why they removed the weapon swap option, can still switch out from the menu and it works exactly the same but for whatever idiotic (amongst so many) choices by the DA team they didn't bother adding it to the wheel

Full party gear switching instead of have'n to maunally pick 3 people over & over to swap gear (and this could have been done at hawke's home so no exscuses)

being able to fast travel from towns (or town in DA2's case) another baffling cut that seems to have been soley to pad out game time by make'n us run to exit points instead of just opening the map and fast traveling

[Salaya]

I always suspected that the removal of top-air strategy camera comes because it implies more work on scenaries. To be sure that anytime that the player uses it, he/she will be seeing a playable-well designed area requires time and effort.

Of course, I'm only guessing ^_^u

[KilrB]

They were so rushed for time they could only make one cave, one warehouse, and one mansion/****house ...

Yet they decided they HAD to totally redo the art and re-imagine the Elves, Qunari, and Darkspawn?


My (now former) PC ran Origins with every hi-res texture pack I could find just fine ... on XP.

Who decided I wasn't allowed to run the DA2 hi-res textures unless I sprang for Win7?

[FieryDove]

In Exile wrote...

Xewaka wrote...
Because they didn't make this game for PC first, then port it to consoles. It feels the other way around, though.

Why remove the camera outright, though? They could have kept it in. 

Long ago it was pretty ceilings...but then it changed. The camera in dao ruined the game.

Start at 2:00 for the real story. ahem.


This is also why everything is brown, tan and red. And looks the same with little details that no one wanted or cared about.

Yes, I know marketing...but just *boggle*.

[JamieCOTC]

Loot - What they did w/ the loot was the first "wtf" revelation I had in the game. At first I thought the loot system was going to be complex and cool. Ohh, the trick is you can make something out of all this crap you find, then sell it. Right? No? That's it? Bummer.

Skill Tree GUI - I thought this was DA2, not Bejeweled.

PC Top Down View - 80% of the time the top down view on the PC was fine, the other 20% was extremely frustrating.

Reused Area Maps - This isn't a head scratcher. This is just downright unforgivable, but why didn't they at least reskin the areas? That's the puzzler.

[Feraele]

FieryDove wrote...

In Exile wrote...

Xewaka wrote...
Because they didn't make this game for PC first, then port it to consoles. It feels the other way around, though.

Why remove the camera outright, though? They could have kept it in. 

Long ago it was pretty ceilings...but then it changed. The camera in dao ruined the game.

Start at 2:00 for the real story. ahem.


This is also why everything is brown, tan and red. And looks the same with little details that no one wanted or cared about.

Yes, I know marketing...but just *boggle*.

After watching that video and seeing some of the comments below it,  I havecome to the conclusion, that no matter what the fans may indicate,  Bioware is too far removed from what we are telling them...to actually get it and stick with what works.   Innovation is fine, but don't change the whole danged game because you aren't satisfied with the audience you have..and the grass is greener in the console and shooter audience.   Too big a gamble and I would say..from what I've heard at least ..that gamble didn't work very well.   

So I guess Dragon Age will remain a stylized hack and slash ..instead of an rpg?   A masseffectified clone, because Mass Effect is really their main focus and the money maker.    Very sad.

[mutombomania]

these strange new darkspawn are the only thing i cant understand.
Most of the other changes have some understandable intentions, even if they doesnt work out.
But why they changed such elemental things for lore and story is beyond me.
There is no ingame explanation for this and the rumor that they changed them because they looked too much like orks isnt working for me either.
Every second rpg has some ork like creatures, so who cares??
When you already know, you havent much time, why bother with such changes?
And now we have undead like creatures instead of ork like, thats not unique either.

[Robtachi]

Hatchetman77 wrote...

Robtachi wrote...

Hatchetman77 wrote...

The short development cycle is really the only thing that made me go "Huh?!".  Everything else kinda makes sense considering the devs had to do something completly new and absolutly no time to do it.  I can see why the corners were cut and the game was made to the minimum standars and not to the best of BioWare's ability.  Whoever set the timetable for this game set everyone else involved up to fail. 

Topic -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You

Let's stick to the little things. Plenty of discussions already revolve around the main issue of the dev cycle/perceived rushed-ness of the game.

So the point of this thread is to nitpick at flaws without putting those flaws into context.  Gotcha.  My apologies.

Or it's to just openly discuss a bunch of different things that haven't already been talked to death everywhere else, seeing as how this is the, uh, general discussion forum.

Geez.

[Drasanil]

Hatchetman77 wrote...
 Everything else kinda makes sense considering the devs had to do something completly new and absolutly no time to do it. 

The thing is they didnt 'have' to make something completely new with absolutely no time, rather they decided to try and reinvent the wheel knowing they had next to no time.

As for the changes:

-The second weapon slot, and easy swap button. I guess they recieved 'complaints' about that in DAO too

-Weapons restricted to class. No excuse for this, even if the classes don't have specific talents related to them, a warrior should still be able to use a bow, and a mage should still be able to pick up a sword.

-Attributes and what they do, there was nothing all that wrong with DAO's. DA2's just feel like a bloody mess. The percentage system also feels indredibly arbitrary and frustrating given you're always playing catch up and you're constantly reminded of it as your % effectiveness keeps going down every time you level up.

-Dual Stat requirements for armor/clothing. Single-stat I could have understood but dual stats was just too much.

-The inventory UI. Having to switch tabs to see what you have feels so much more clunky than just scrolling up and down with your mouse.

-Removing the top down view... the ceilings aren't all that pretty to look at and given the massive amount of recycled areas, you've seen one you've seen 'em all. This was just sheer lazyness. 

-Hawke. Despite claims to the contrary, this character served no purpose and was in no way central to the story, rather being little more than an over hyped gawker along for the ride.

[KennethAFTopp]

I think the equipment system in DA:O was pretty spot on, and that mean allowing Rogues to use swords and Axes and such as well yes.

[Patchwork]

The Darkspawn redesign and the fact that all genlocks and shrieks disappeared.

That Anders will insist on talking in the supposed privacy of his clinic rather than the empty, apart from the loyal servants, mansion they both live in.

Apostate Hawke in so many ways.

[Yrkoon]

FieryDove wrote...


Start at 2:00 for the real story. ahem.

Mindblowing.  I thought only politicians were the masters of spin-science.    But this guy..... this guy has somehow  managed to explain to us why detailed  graphics and varied environments in a game are a BAD thing.  lol

Modifié par Yrkoon, 14 juillet 2011 - 12:19 .

[Last Darkness]

Yrkoon wrote...

FieryDove wrote...


Start at 2:00 for the real story. ahem.

Mindblowing.  I thought only politicians were the masters of spin-science.    But this guy..... this guy has somehow  managed to explain to us why detailed  graphics and varied environments in a game are a BAD thing.  lol

As a Artist myself I understand what hes actualy talking about.
The problem is they are going about it in the wrong way, im sure this has been a good learning experince for Bioware.

[Dragoonlordz]

Salaya wrote...

 The absence of skills.

 The fixed dialogs with companions.
 
 Wave system.

 Re-used environments.

 Equipment.

 Teleporting mages.

 Simplified secondary quests.

 Restricted weapons and styles.

 New artistic design.

Well, probably Im forgetting something, but thats all for now  

Good read, I have to say I agree with each point you made. I feel the same way though there are few more things I would add to the list the points you brought up I agree with.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 14 juillet 2011 - 01:20 .

[Dragoonlordz]

FieryDove wrote...

In Exile wrote...

Xewaka wrote...
Because they didn't make this game for PC first, then port it to consoles. It feels the other way around, though.

Why remove the camera outright, though? They could have kept it in. 

Long ago it was pretty ceilings...but then it changed. The camera in dao ruined the game.

Start at 2:00 for the real story. ahem.


This is also why everything is brown, tan and red. And looks the same with little details that no one wanted or cared about.

Yes, I know marketing...but just *boggle*.

"We aren't going to turn around and say you know what you were totally wrong" with regard to making decisions in Origins.

Has noone actually told him that some people killed some characters in first game and yet they did turn around and say you know what you were totally wrong in that playthrough of origins they need to live even if you killed them. So they did exactly that.

[Drasanil]

FieryDove wrote...

In Exile wrote...

Xewaka wrote...
Because they didn't make this game for PC first, then port it to consoles. It feels the other way around, though.

Why remove the camera outright, though? They could have kept it in. 

Long ago it was pretty ceilings...but then it changed. The camera in dao ruined the game.

Start at 2:00 for the real story. ahem.


This is also why everything is brown, tan and red. And looks the same with little details that no one wanted or cared about.

Yes, I know marketing...but just *boggle*.

God, this guy is really full of it. First he claimed there were too many books in the mage tower and that it 'drew your attention away' from the action... then two seconds later he asked if we had even noticed there books in the mage tower before he pointed it out. Or that top down view on PC somehow ruined the experience...

Maybe next he'll explain to us in his mighty wisdom how a warrior equiping a bow was just too gosh-darn confusing for us and that Bioware really did us a favour

[KennethAFTopp]

David Silverman is also the dude on Bioware Pulse right?

[Harid]

Never got the allure for the camp only ally talk hate.

I mean, for certain quests I have no problem with it, but when you are like chasing someone, or about to fight a Dragon, you should not be able to talk to a companion about how much she likes shoes. . .it's stupid.

And I don't trust Bioware to make it quest specific, probably because it's too much work. I still like many Awakening companions, like Sigrun, more than Origins characters, and it has nothing to do with long expositions while you are chasing a thief, or fighting the siege of denerim at any time. I am pretty sure good characters shine through regardless.

Something that made me go "Huh?" was the fact that Bioware talked big about how they fixed the skin tones in Dragon Age 2 pre release, at yet still screwed it up come the actual game release. My character looks like 2 entirely different people in daytime and at night. . .skin tone doesn't work that way.

Modifié par Harid, 14 juillet 2011 - 02:16 .

[Yrkoon]

KennethAFTopp wrote...

David Silverman is also the dude on Bioware Pulse right?

He's the guy who's credited with starting the "Button ->Awesome" meme that has swept the RPG  gaming community.

Check it out:



^four hours of David Silverman goodness.  Enjoy.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 14 juillet 2011 - 02:18 .

[Dragoonlordz]

Harid wrote...

Something that made me go "Huh?" was the fact that Bioware talked big about how they fixed the skin tones in Dragon Age 2 pre release, at yet still screwed it up come the actual game release. My character looks like 2 entirely different people in daytime and at night. . .skin tone doesn't work that way.

Did they even ever fix the fact Darktown at night is still daytime at the location yet?