206 réponses à ce sujet

[xkg]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Also, just because some of you don't find the DA2 elves attractive doesn't mean Thedosians won't find them beautiful either.


Example: Vincento. He found Arianni beautiful.

This is relly bad argument. Really.

Make them look like an ape and you can say the same - maybe in Thedas they are considered to be real beauty.
No. Weak excuse.

[FieryDove]

whykikyouwhy wrote...

I looked at the codex entries on elves for DA:O and didn't see any reference. It's possible that a character may have spoken of the beauty of the elves. But in DA2, elves are referred to by many as "knive ears," which is a slur, and seems to be directed at their appearance.

Sigh, fine...

Culture and history -first listing
Aravels [Entry #93]
Certainly most humans would agree that the halla are as beautiful as the elves themselves.

If people want more they can go play the game.

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
Example: Vincento. He found Arianni beautiful.

I wouldn't quote him as a good example. But maybe its just the impression he made to me, which wasn't much other than abandonment for his son and girlfriend...oh and wife.

Morroian wrote...

Its not lore thats set down as a rule of the game that they should abide by. Anything in game like that is purposefully written by BW as a subjective opinion, even most of the codex is probably considered a subjective opinion in the world of the game.

You don't like the look of elves fine but don't try and make it out like its some deep criticism of Bioware. Its not like there's nothing else to criticise the game for.

Fine, everything we read and heard in DAO was subjective.

I do not like the new elves its true, when lore is changed just for the sake of change its sort of annoying, but its not anything new. See ME2.

But its not the end of the world, I have mainly stated that the female body design needs to be redone again the S shaped pretzel looks unhealthy as does the level of thinness in some of the elves, but if we never have an option to play anything but humans its almost moot. (That and the Zevran cameo was a bit upsetting) Yes, Zev fangirl...oh well.

[TEWR]

I wouldn't quote him as a good example. But maybe its just the impression he made to me, which wasn't much other than abandonment for his son and girlfriend...oh and wife.

He's the only example in DA2, save for Hawke, that there is. He found Arianni beautiful, but I'm not denying he was a colossal ****** for abandoning her and his son. As for his wife in Antiva, I got the impression she was ok with him journeying everywhere. I'm assuming that she isn't all too faithful either.

At least he makes up for it a little bit if you're a mage and you tell him you're going to help his son. Shows he cares somewhat about his son.

[JaegerBane]

FieryDove wrote...
I do not like the new elves its true, when lore is changed just for the sake of change its sort of annoying, but its not anything new. See ME2.

I agree, but while they did make a few changes for the sake of it in ME2, at least none of them were sat outside the realms of plausibility. The addition of thermal clips and the changes to biotics weren't exactly well-explained changes, but it's not like it's hard to believe that advances in tech from the upheavel in ME1 would create changes in how they work on the battlefield.

However, when it comes to species totally mutating into something that bears no resemblance to what they once were - Darkspawn and Elves mostly - then it does just come across as the developers don't really know what they're doing.

And, as good as the Qunari look, the addition of horns is probably one of the most daftest changes I've come across in fiction for a *long* time. It's like Spock walking onto the bridge in Star Trek 2: The Wrath of Khan sporting a pair of bat wings, and no-one noticing. It really does speak volumes as to the sheer lack of thought the developers must have had during development. I mean, seriously, didn't at least *someone* say 'Uh, guys.... aren't we at least going to explain why they all have horns?' 

[Tirfan]

^ Weell, the original concept for Qunari had horns if I recall correctly, and I think horned qunari were even mentioned somewhere in DA:O.. Can't remember for certain tho.

The change should have been handled better; just by making the Qunari guarding the compound hornless for example and a bit of dialogue with them about how come they are hornless would have made some sense at least.

[JaegerBane]

xkg wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Also, just because some of you don't find the DA2 elves attractive doesn't mean Thedosians won't find them beautiful either.


Example: Vincento. He found Arianni beautiful.

This is relly bad argument. Really.

Make them look like an ape and you can say the same - maybe in Thedas they are considered to be real beauty.
No. Weak excuse.

Yeah, I gotta admit that the idea that this is all 'down to opinion' is a bit silly. Some of these elves remind me of those freaks in that creepy village quest in Oblivion. Bulbous eyes and horizontal ears tend to stretch the credibility of any normal human being attracted to them.

[JaegerBane]

Tirfan wrote...

^ Weell, the original concept for Qunari had horns if I recall correctly, and I think horned qunari were even mentioned somewhere in DA:O.. Can't remember for certain tho.

The change should have been handled better; just by making the Qunari guarding the compound hornless for example and a bit of dialogue with them about how come they are hornless would have made some sense at least.

Like I said, I don't disagree they look pretty good in their current form, particularly the Arishok. I have no problem believing they were supposed to have horns in the first place, considering the form of the Ogres with very similar ones.

But as change overs go, this is probably the worst one since the Klingons from Star Trek.

[FieryDove]

JaegerBane wrote...

I agree, but while they did make a few changes for the sake of it in ME2, at least none of them were sat outside the realms of plausibility. The addition of thermal clips and the changes to biotics weren't exactly well-explained changes, but it's not like it's hard to believe that advances in tech from the upheavel in ME1 would create changes in how they work on the battlefield.

My first game playing the intro went like this:

My Shepard: " This weapon has no thermal clip!"

Me: What the BLANK is a thermal clip! (And freaking out as the whole place seems about to blow up) lol

Later: I must have time traveled to the past, we need ammo....again. ugh

Modifié par FieryDove, 14 juillet 2011 - 04:29 .

[JaegerBane]

FieryDove wrote...
Later: I must have time traveled to the past, we need ammo....again. ugh

To be fair, having ammo that can be shared between any and all weapons isn't exactly low tech.

Particularly since all your enemies seem to practically bleed ammo clips....

[Faunwea]

I personally am glad they made races more distinctive in DA2. I feel that each race has a unique sense of attractiveness and beauty apart from one another now. Although some elves were unattractive (sorry Orana >_<) and others were just plain creepy (Huon *shivers*), I thought many others were attractive such as Merril, Fenris, Jethann, and Athenril.

[FieryDove]

JaegerBane wrote...

Particularly since all your enemies seem to practically bleed ammo clips....

Oh I don't care really it was just a *very* funny moment. I modded ammo out anyhow...hehe

[FieryDove]

Faunwea wrote...

I thought many others were attractive such as Merril, Fenris, Jethann, and Athenril.

But Athenril looks human minus ears. I doubt BW wants to spend time and resources making all elves look as good as Fenris/Merrill, if you look at all the others clearly that wasn't a concern. A big deal to some. I just think the bodies should to go to something else...oh and the hunchback idle stance if nothing else.

[Addai]

whykikyouwhy wrote...
I looked at the codex entries on elves for DA:O and didn't see any reference. It's possible that a character may have spoken of the beauty of the elves. But in DA2, elves are referred to by many as "knive ears," which is a slur, and seems to be directed at their appearance.

Someone already quoted a codex, but Zevran tells you that the Crows prefer elven assassins because humans find them beautiful.  I believe it's mentioned in the prequel novels, as well- as I recall, Maric comments on it in regards to Katriel.

I'm curious if, in this study, the picture held up to the baby was similar in appearance to his/her mother, or someone else who had already made a visual imprint. Perhaps we are drawn to certain things at an early age, but our concept of beauty, of what it entails, is just as much shaped by our upbringing, societal norms, and our own ability to shape our identities. Our tastes change as we age. I may have thought blondes were attractive when I was younger, and now, maybe I don't find them attractive at all (not necessarily true, but used for an example - no offense to any flaxen-haired folks).

I think it's pretty well established that people tend to prefer proportional faces and bodies.  There was an ME dev diary not long ago about how they came up with the Asari, and it said that they had first made more alien designs but that focus groups rejected them.  That's why I wondered if they had done the same sort of testing with DA2 elves.

Modifié par Addai67, 14 juillet 2011 - 05:02 .

[Addai]

JaegerBane wrote...

FieryDove wrote...
Later: I must have time traveled to the past, we need ammo....again. ugh

To be fair, having ammo that can be shared between any and all weapons isn't exactly low tech.

Particularly since all your enemies seem to practically bleed ammo clips....

The technology for omni-gel also disappeared. 

They even make fun of these things, as with Shepard saying during LoTSB, "remember the good old days when you could just slap omni-gel on everything?"

[Tellervo]

phoenixgoddess27 wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

The basic features aren't inherently bad - Orsino, Fenris and Merrill all look OK.  It's just they're really skinny and the  minor NPCs are bad.

There's a mod out there which allows you to create a DA:O elf with most of the distinctive DA2 features, and you can make a pretty decent looking PC with that. Though it benefits from not being as crazily skinny as DA2 elves.

I agree with you about that.
The rest of the elves in DA2 look like donkeys.

^  The elves need to be less hollow-featured in general, and the basic changes to facial structure are okay.  Wider chins and jaws such that they're still slender but appropriately proportioned, and the bodies need to have a slightly stronger structure.  They can keep that halla-like look without looking quite so... dreadful.  Because they do.  IMO, even the "good looking" elves are pushing it.

[JaegerBane]

FieryDove wrote...
 I just think the bodies should to go to something else...oh and the hunchback idle stance if nothing else.

Definitely. I don't know what that was all about, but it reminded me of the orcs from LotR. Not quite the result I'd wager the developers were intending.

[PsychoBlonde]

Wulfram wrote...

The basic features aren't inherently bad - Orsino, Fenris and Merrill all look OK.  It's just they're really skinny and the  minor NPCs are bad.

They messed up the jaw angle for the generator they used for most NPC's, it gives the elves a really odd off-looking facial shape if they have a wider jaw.  The cheeks/cheekbones also make them look hideously gaunt/lumpy in some cases--couple that with the overlarge eyes and some bad makeup and you have real travesties on your hands.

The nose bridge has no real effect either way as far as I'm concerned, but it does *contribute* to the unbalancing effect of the other features by breaking up the way the face balances visually.

[Jademoon121]

Elves are supposed to appear sort of alien. Sans Tolkien elves, every elven race has tall foreheads, sharp cheekbones, and large almond shaped eyes with a slender body in tow. Elves are humaniods that look attractive to humans, not humans that look pretty, there's a difference. We're talking about an entirely seperate race here.
I imagine that if DA2 wasn't made in 18 months, the elves(among other things) would be more fine-tuned. It's obvious that they where lazy in some of their redesigns ie Qunari clones and some of the elves; but all of the elves that play major roles(Merrill, Merethari, Orsino) look good. Bioware can make the DA2 elves better in DA3 so long as they don't BS it like every other aspect of the game.

Modifié par Jademoon121, 14 juillet 2011 - 08:05 .

[JaegerBane]

Jademoon121 wrote...

Elves are supposed to appear sort of alien.

That's true, but that doesn't preclude them from being attractive. Being graceful and slender are one thing - having bulbous, fish-like eyes and and almost gorilla-like stoop are quite another and don't generally equate to being 'attractive' by any sane human.

Modifié par JaegerBane, 14 juillet 2011 - 08:06 .

[Jademoon121]

JaegerBane wrote...

Jademoon121 wrote...

Elves are supposed to appear sort of alien.

That's true, but that doesn't preclude them from being attractive.

In old tales and fantasy, elves are otherwordly creatures of magic and nature that appear beautiful to humans, kind of like cranes or deer but in a relatable fashion. They're not supposed to be pretty humans. The DA2 elves are sloppy, shamelessly so, but there are some that do look good. All the races sans humans got shafted by the design team, it's just that the elves are given a wider scope. All Qunari look the same and there aren't any female dwarves.

Modifié par Jademoon121, 14 juillet 2011 - 08:09 .

[xkg]

Jademoon121 wrote...

JaegerBane wrote...

Jademoon121 wrote...

Elves are supposed to appear sort of alien.

That's true, but that doesn't preclude them from being attractive.

In old tales and fantasy, elves are otherwordly creatures of magic and nature that appear beautiful to humans, kind of like cranes or deer but in a relatable fashion. They're not supposed to be pretty humans. The DA2 elves are sloppy, shamelessly so, but there are some that do look good. All the races sans humans got shafted by the design team, it's just that the elves are given a wider scope. All Qunari look the same and there aren't any female dwarves.

Yes in OLD TALES and FANTASY (not every) they may be like that. But this is Dragon Age not Tolkien.
And they are supposed te be pretty humans in Dragon Age world. And that how it was in DAO.
Don't put every single fantasy setting into the same bag. 

Modifié par xkg, 14 juillet 2011 - 08:17 .

[Jademoon121]

xkg wrote...

Jademoon121 wrote...

JaegerBane wrote...

Jademoon121 wrote...

Elves are supposed to appear sort of alien.

That's true, but that doesn't preclude them from being attractive.

In old tales and fantasy, elves are otherwordly creatures of magic and nature that appear beautiful to humans, kind of like cranes or deer but in a relatable fashion. They're not supposed to be pretty humans. The DA2 elves are sloppy, shamelessly so, but there are some that do look good. All the races sans humans got shafted by the design team, it's just that the elves are given a wider scope. All Qunari look the same and there aren't any female dwarves.

Yes in OLD TALES and FANTASY (not every) they may be like that. But this is Dragon Age not Tolkien.
And they are supposed te be pretty humans in Dragon Age world. And that how it was in DAO.
Don't put every single fantasy setting into a single bag. 

LOTR was orignally a book series, how elves looked like was left to the reader. Tolkien borrowed from a lot of sources both personal and mythological, so we don't truly know on how he evisioned his elves. Every media outside of the books depicted the elves as woodland sprites or as pretty humans. It's debatable. The only reason why elves looked human in DAO was for the sake of using the human model to save money, that's also why all the Qunari lack horns; and as I remember, people didn't like it.

Modifié par Jademoon121, 14 juillet 2011 - 08:25 .

[xkg]

Jademoon121 wrote...
 The only reason why elves looked human in DAO was for the sake of using the human model to save money,

And you know it how ? As far as I know cutting corners and saving money on everything concept is rather closer to DA2 not DAO. 

Jademoon121 wrote...
that's also why all the Qunari lack horns; and as I remember, people didn't like it.

All the Qunari ? so tell me how many Qunaris are there in DAO ?

[alex90c]

xkg wrote...

All the Qunari ? so tell me how many Qunaris are there in DAO ?

none because they're all tal-vashoth

derp

[Jademoon121]

xkg wrote...

Jademoon121 wrote...
 The only reason why elves looked human in DAO was for the sake of using the human model to save money,

And you know it how ? As far as I know cutting corners and saving money on everything concept is rather closer to DA2 not DAO. 

Jademoon121 wrote...
that's also why all the Qunari lack horns; and as I remember, people didn't like it.

All the Qunari ? so tell me how many Qunaris are there in DAO ?

You put a helmet on an elf. It covers their pointed ears and any sign of elfyness is lost aside from being smaller. If I had pointed ears and shaved, I could fit in easily in an Alienage or a Dalish camp in DAO because I'm thin, small, and lithe. Nothing seperates the elves from short humans like myself. It might not have been a money saver, but you spend less time in just making smaller models and animations than entirely knew ones.

Sten, Arvass or whever his name is in Awakening, all the Qunari mercenaries and the Qunari in Sten's nightmare don't have horns. Bioware skirts around this by saying that some Qunari are born hornless and apostates remove them, but I'm not seeing any snubs.

Modifié par Jademoon121, 14 juillet 2011 - 08:38 .