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Features/News You Must Hear to Restore/Bolster Your Confidence for DA? (Edit: Added Laidlaw's Response) Updated: 8/5/2011


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#1
Savber100

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This is NOT a criticism thread but simply features you want returned or action to be taken to restore the loss of credibility after DA2. Leave a brief explanation to your points.

PLEASE DO NOT SUGGEST ANYTHING THAT IS OF A PERSONAL NATURE! DEMANDING THE REMOVAL OF ANY INDIVIDUAL FROM THE DA TEAM IS UNACCEPATABLE AND WILL HAVE THIS THREAD LOCKED.

...and who wants that?

1. The isometric camera for the PC. 

2. Branching Narratives 

3. A Recommitment in Understanding the current DA audience 

4. Free DLCs

5. New Graphics Engine

6. Origins 


Explanation: 

1. The isometric camera was integral to the DA:O experience on PC. Half the time, I used the isometric camera for either combat or navigating across the map. When the first storm against DA2 came, I defended that DA2's combat will remain the same tactical experience until I learned of the removal of isometric camera. That stripped away all faith that Bioware was just improving the combat. 

2. The Witcher 2 did it and it was amazing. Branching narratives are the epitome for a good C&C as you literally see a difference between the choices that you make. If DA3 have this, I will be the first to preorder with my faith in Bioware restored. Why? Branching narratives are insanely expensive to do but it shows a serious commitment in making choices matter and valuing the decisions of the player. Think of it as the total opposite of repeated environments. 

3. The DA team need to understand the current audience that they have with the DA franchise. Many of Bioware's more hardcore RPG audience came here after ME switched to a more combat-centric style that turned off more than a good deal of players that preferred classic RPGs like Planescape Torment, Fallout, and Baldur's Gate. The DA team need to find a better balance and have a greater emphasis on the strength of the original DA:O rather than trying to get more of the COD/Halo crowd. The ME team has that covered, DA team, why don't you aim for another viable audience? Look at the sales for The Witcher 2 and DA:O. Come on... there's still a market for these types of RPGs.

4. Valve and CD Projekt Red understands that there's nothing like free stuff to please the fanbase. Now go to Youtube, and watch "Bioware: State of the Industry". Yeah...  :pinched: While this might not be viable due to EA policy, I really wish Bioware can pull something off with EA. Come on...Bioware is the HEAD of EA's RPG division. Is there really no way for Bioware to give out free DLC rather than keep giving us overpriced Day One DLC? 

5. Look at the Witcher 2 and then look Dragon Age 2. 

Graphics aren't everything in a RPG but graphics do show the level of craftsmanship and commitment of a particular team.  DA2 just lack the detail and loving care which we see in The Witcher 2. Even if DA's team is heavily commited, the engine doesn't do the team and the game justice. The current engine for Dragon Age is outdated and needs to be replaced. If I hear that DA3 will be having either the Frostbyte 2 or Cryengine 3 to power its grahpics, I'll be there in a flash. 

6. Give us back Origins. Yes, I know DA2 isn't Dragon Age: Origins but honestly origins was what got me into the game in the first place. Before I would have missed DA:O as ANOTHER generic fantasy until I saw this feature. 
I know it's difficult to pull off due to having a voiced protagonist  but bring this back in DA3 will show that Bioware is committed to their fans more than ever. 


More Fan Suggestions: (These were the following features/news I gathered from the posts)

1. Longer Development Cycle - The 18 month of DA2's development has left a bad taste in our mouth. 

2. More dialogue options for the character or ditch the DW entirely -The flaw of the dialogue wheel is that it destroyed the illusion of choices. Enrich the DW with more options while also finding a better way to implement the DW... maybe a Deus Ex: HR-styled wheel? 

3. Mod support - Sigh, remember the awesome Alistair/female human noble wedding mod? The Redesign mods? Good times...  :(. It's critical for Bioware to show that it still strongly supports the PC market by releasing a toolset. 

4. Better Music -  Personally, I felt Inon Zur is doing great but the rushed timetable for DA2 greatly diminished the quality of DA2's soundtrack. This is directly linked to 1. 

5. No more sticky AOE - I agree... having sticky AOE grealy interferes with tactical planning. I forgot how many times I tried to bring my mouse back to the place i wanted as it jumps upon the nearest enemy. 

6. Slow down the combat - This is important. Faster combat compared to DA:O was fine but exploding darkspawns and people leaping 10 feet into the air is pushing it. Make it fast BUT realistic. 

7. Open Level Design - Aim to create a world bigger than a single, linear corrider to get from Point A to Point B. In a RPG, this just ruins the sense of exploration.

8. More Varied Animation like blocking, parrying etc -  Ever since they sped up the combat, the faster combat only further amplified a interesting problem graphic-wise where the enemy lacks reaction the your blows. You whack and the enemy just blinks while his health goes slooowly down. You want to make DA's combat more engaging? Make soldiers react in combat as they do in real-life while keeping the tactical combat. Give us more variety of animation such as when a warrior blocks a blow, he actually visually blocks it. We could see the rogue actually dodge blows and mage's absorb damage. I think we had some elements of this in DA:O but it kinda just went off the radar in DA2 as it was nothing but hack hack hack slash slash stabbity stab. 


9. Fully equippable, customizable armor and weapon for companions - The reason for the removal of equipping any armor on companions confounds me. Devs have said that this was to give your companions a "signature" look. However, this isn't a FPS, hybrid (Mass Effect), or action-adventure game where the goal is to create recognizable characters. No, this was a old-school RPG where you can swap out the armor that you feel is best for your team. The ability to choose what fancy armor to give Sten or Alistair or what robes look best on Morrigan was a great feature that allowed the player to have maximum customizability to create a unique party that is vastly different from other players. There's nothing more satisfying than looking at your team at the end and smile at how far the squad has come just by looking at what they're wearing. DA2 lacked this personal evolution of your companion besides in a romance where you get ONE alternate suit which you can never really change entirely to the PLAYER'S tastes. 

10.
New Art Direction - The community is pretty divded on this issue and I'm not suprised. The original DA:O was promised to be gritty, mature, and realistic similar to Game of Thrones by George R.R. Martin. When DA:O was released, aethestics reflected the goal.  In DA2, the art changed into a more cartoony look which many DA:O players have felt was opposite of the aethestics they liked in DA:O. 


11. The return of non-combat skills -  The removal of non-combat skills greatly decreased the role-playing within DA2. In the RPGs of old, the players had a vast array of options to not only persuade but to indimidate and to coerce etc. While not perfect in DA:O, skills like persuade and lockpicking helped players to create a unique personality and to give unique options based on our choices and skills. In DA2, we basically fight or we die with few options to create a personality beyond the killing machine that we call Hawke. This creates a disconnect between the player and the character as our limited options never really go beyond choosing a combat style of the central protagonist.


12. Return of silent protagonist - Here's where most of fanbase are pretty split. With a silent protagonist, we are given the ability to "fill in the blanks". The Warden is me and my choices are truly my choices. However in DA2, my Hawke is already pre-defined. He's a confident leader and the Champion of the Kirkwall. He command while others listen. Nothing that I do can change that as Hawke's voice always speaks out with confidence no matter what I do. Compare that with the Warden where I can evolve my character from a surface-hating dwarf to a confident commander or a loving city elf that becomes a brutal killer of non-elves. Many people have complained that the Warden just sits there mutedly like a stone but I believe that my Warden doesn't react because I'm the one reacting for him. To me, my Warden wept after killing Connor, he smiled at Alistair's bickering with Morrigan, and he chuckled whenever he hears about Shale's rave about birds. In DA:O, it felt like role-playing at its best as I'm the Warden and no one else.

13. Key Gameplay Changes - No more wave combat,  No more scaling enemies - they are cheap and take away any feeling that you have actually progressed, oh, you have more abilities, but what does it matter when the battles feel exactly the same against exactly the same type of mooks, no matter the level. No more bloated hp-monsters, you can make the game difficult even without them. 

Friendly Fire should not be tied to any difficulty level, but rather you should be able to turn it off or on on any difficulty (except Nightmare where it should be by definition be on), Over-the--top animations need to be banished to deepest pits of abyss.

In the optimal world, the encounters would be hard not just because of the number of enemies you face, but also because they use their abilities in a way that isn't stupid, and you shouldn't be able to look at the talent trees and pretty much outright see how you can make builds that have enormous dps-potential, which, sadly, is the only thing that matters, more emphasis on the usage of crowd-control abilities etc. is what I would like to see as an actually viable solution.

(13 was taken from Tirfan's post and csfteeeer's suggestions). 


EDIT: TELL ME IF I MISSED ANYTHING YOU FEEL IS IMPORTANT. 

Guess what? Mike Laidlaw, lead designer of DA, has responded with a message: 


Mike Laidlaw wrote...
Hey Savber. Thank you for your suggestions. Many of them are right on the money, but at the same time many do not match the overall direction of the DA franchise. 

Overall, though, I see that you're asking for an improvement in quality, and some of the RPG mechanics making a return which is a noble goal and where we are headed.


Thoughts?

Modifié par Savber100, 05 août 2011 - 10:28 .


#2
MeAndMySandvich

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For me, a longer dev cycle and some kind of acknowledgement from the Dragon Age team that they A) made mistakes in DA2, and B) will learn from those mistakes.

#3
Arokel

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Honestly, I am willing to wait 3-4 years between installments if that means they can DAIII the best DA yet. Just get the game done right.

#4
BanksHector

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That my class does not determine which family member lives. I hate bethany and playing as mages, but I had to play as a mage so the other one would live.

#5
vEAch SUCKS

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That Laidlaw has NOTHING to do with it would be a start, even though i still probably will wait a month or two, read reviews and then MAYBE buy.

#6
jimmy_smith

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Bioware paid the ransom to gain their freedom from EA

#7
Guest_Puddi III_*

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Shifter and ranger are being added back into the game.

#8
Arokel

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Filament wrote...

Shifter and ranger are being added back into the game.


I don't remember a "shifter" spec. Do you mean shadow?

#9
Guest_Puddi III_*

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Shapeshifter, I mean.

Yes, I know it sucked in Origins, I mean one that doesn't suck.

#10
Chiramu

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The tactical view would be cool to get back :), especially for moving your party members.

What about a story that is an adventure? Like the main character could be a treasure hunter/pirate/thief?
It would just be nice to get away from all the Grey Wardens and political "stuff"; and it would be super awesome to explore the world of Thedas!

#11
Arokel

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Filament wrote...

Shapeshifter, I mean.

Yes, I know it sucked in Origins, I mean one that doesn't suck.


Oh. I can't believe I didn't realize it was shapeshifter lol. I agree getting it back would be good.

#12
phoenixgoddess27

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Chiramu wrote...

The tactical view would be cool to get back :), especially for moving your party members.

What about a story that is an adventure? Like the main character could be a treasure hunter/pirate/thief?
It would just be nice to get away from all the Grey Wardens and political "stuff"; and it would be super awesome to explore the world of Thedas!


What do you mean? My Warden was a treasure hunting thief.


I would personally like for my choices to matter, again. Maybe not get the cold shoulder from my companions anymore, too. More than one ending, perhaps? No set protagonist. Or at least, let me choose my own protagonist(If the Warden or Hawke returns, I'd like to choose between the two or a new protagonist.). Those would make me buy another DA/Bioware game.

#13
Chiramu

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phoenixgoddess27 wrote...

Chiramu wrote...

The tactical view would be cool to get back :), especially for moving your party members.

What about a story that is an adventure? Like the main character could be a treasure hunter/pirate/thief?
It would just be nice to get away from all the Grey Wardens and political "stuff"; and it would be super awesome to explore the world of Thedas!


What do you mean? My Warden was a treasure hunting thief.



To just get away from the Grey Wardens and political matters entirely :P

#14
Chromie

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Arokel wrote...

Honestly, I am willing to wait 3-4 years between installments if that means they can DAIII the best DA yet. Just get the game done right.


New engine also. Take as long as they need but for the love of Dragon Age make it look pretty. I want an engine that takes advantage of a computers hardware (especially since im upgrading for BF3) DX11 in DA2 is just so pointless.

#15
Chiramu

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Ringo12 wrote...

Arokel wrote...

Honestly, I am willing to wait 3-4 years between installments if that means they can DAIII the best DA yet. Just get the game done right.


New engine also. Take as long as they need but for the love of Dragon Age make it look pretty. I want an engine that takes advantage of a computers hardware (especially since im upgrading for BF3) DX11 in DA2 is just so pointless.


It would be nice if those graphics could scale down depending on your computers' capabilities (also so it's easier for the 360, gametrailers.com said DA2 can give the 360 a bit of trouble with graphics).

#16
Chromie

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Chiramu wrote...

Ringo12 wrote...

Arokel wrote...

Honestly, I am willing to wait 3-4 years between installments if that means they can DAIII the best DA yet. Just get the game done right.


New engine also. Take as long as they need but for the love of Dragon Age make it look pretty. I want an engine that takes advantage of a computers hardware (especially since im upgrading for BF3) DX11 in DA2 is just so pointless.


It would be nice if those graphics could scale down depending on your computers' capabilities (also so it's easier for the 360, gametrailers.com said DA2 can give the 360 a bit of trouble with graphics).


Bioware should at least give us graphic us more graphic options not just AA, Shadows and Frame buffer effects.

#17
bleetman

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"This game will be in development for longer than eighteen months". That's all you need say to me, really.

I'm not a terribly big fan of day one dlc either, but that's unfortunately not something restricted to this series, or even this development studio/publisher. Post-released developed, paid for dlc is fine by me, provided it's existence is justified. I want extra content that matters and contributes to the story. You may keep your Darkspawn Chronicles style irrelevance.

#18
Chiramu

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Ringo12 wrote...

Chiramu wrote...

Ringo12 wrote...

Arokel wrote...

Honestly, I am willing to wait 3-4 years between installments if that means they can DAIII the best DA yet. Just get the game done right.


New engine also. Take as long as they need but for the love of Dragon Age make it look pretty. I want an engine that takes advantage of a computers hardware (especially since im upgrading for BF3) DX11 in DA2 is just so pointless.


It would be nice if those graphics could scale down depending on your computers' capabilities (also so it's easier for the 360, gametrailers.com said DA2 can give the 360 a bit of trouble with graphics).


Bioware should at least give us graphic us more graphic options not just AA, Shadows and Frame buffer effects.


That would be nice :).

#19
alex90c

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Knowing Hawke won't be in DA3 as the main protagonist (preferably not in DA3 at all) would boost my confidence massively. Nothing worse than your favourite franchise being ruined for you because you absolutely hate the character you're being given to play.

#20
Chiramu

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alex90c wrote...

Knowing Hawke won't be in DA3 as the main protagonist (preferably not in DA3 at all) would boost my confidence massively. Nothing worse than your favourite franchise being ruined for you because you absolutely hate the character you're being given to play.


Hawke just needs to learn to mind his/her own business is all ;).

#21
Absafraginlootly

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Number 6 and 2 would go the farthest toward restoring confidence in DA for me.

1 would be nice too but it's not a deal breaker.

#22
Vollkeule

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1. DA:O gameplay and character development
2. tactics like DA:O (no, DA2 has no tactics compared to DA:O)
3. no time gaps
5. no dlc/EA-registration
6. no recycling of levels
7. more story altering choices
8. less linear gameplay
9. better itemisation (more)
10. complete stats (no hidden attributes)
11. no insane monster hp to add "difficulty"
12. no dialog wheel
13. no hawke
14. tbd

Modifié par Vollkeule, 14 juillet 2011 - 12:13 .


#23
Icinix

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Tactical cam, ditch the final fantasy - fable graphics lovechild, more choice, less pigeon holed combat for the sake of having **** loads of combat, don't try to create a moral dilemma wth mages saying "oooh we would never do blood magic" right before they all do it, don't destroy any exisiting characters you choose to use, make the inventory iteresting (the design was waaay better, the items were not), return to items that might be worthwhile to keep rather than just get the most powerful and sell the rest, most passive abilities, RPG's NEED to have a greater level of persuasion / charm / intimidate dialogue choices and skills, keep the friendship / rivalry but beef it up a bit more, if you're going to set a timeline - effect changes over the course of that timeline, make the world breath - its empty and its hollow and lifeless - the cheesewheels had more character.

Yeah ok, so some of that MAY have been a bit harsh, but the way I see it, DA2 is a colour by numbers of a Picaso thats only half done. The base is there, it just needs someone to give it some time and love.

Finally, unless you fully voice EVERY dialogue option and have more than a few, a voiced avatar with a dialogue wheel doesn't provide enough depth to get into the world. It makes the character feel less like your character, and you feel like you're watching someone elses.


Wow, I dragged that on a bit. I originally came in to say Tactical camera. I gotta get out of these forums more.

#24
LeBurns

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It would have to start with Mike Laidlaw no longer being in charge. With his 'dream' gone, maybe Dragon Age can be redeemed.

#25
Ronnel

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1. No Laidlaw
2. No EA