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[tiberius_adamantine]

Here are my thoughts and ideas regarding the upcoming game dragon age 3. At the end of dragon age 2 we were told that the Magi circles have successfully defected and that the templars have abandoned the chantry’s control to pursue the mages. War is now inevitable as ideologies collide.
 
Facing a crisis greater than anything Thedas has encountered before, the Divine now seeks to re-establish order and stability in the world. With her blessing, Orlais and Nevarra come to a military alliance to restore chantry control over magic and the templar order. Ferelden, the Free Marches, and the Tevinter Imperium are now unified in their opposition of these forces under the leadership of a powerful mage known as the “Renegade”. The Renegade fights ruthlessly to destroy the long standing power and gain new freedom for all people.
 
The Renegade’s forces consist of a variety of allies and will include all specializations revealed in the previous games. Chantry forces will not make use of many of these, particularly blood magic, but will instead introduce a few new specializations: crusader, cleric, and seeker. It will be revealed in the beginning what the general beliefs are between the two sides so the player is free to determine which side they will support.
 
The Divine favors the reestablishment of the Magi circles as a necessary precaution against the abuses of magic. She wants to improve the relations within an existing system to improve society but maintain the traditional values and boundaries of the system. The Renegade feels that the entire system is wrong and needs to change. She advocates the complete destruction of the chantry as an official authority including the chantry’s oversight of magic. She feels that all magic should be studied and learned in colleges meant to master the forms. Should a mage become corrupt, it becomes the responsibility of other mages and law enforcement to stop them. She advocates the advancement of the elven race as well as reconciliation with the dalish.
 
The Divine believes the renegade has no hope of achieving lasting peace as her changes are likely to cause continual wars and will spread dangerous practices. The Renegade believes the divine is unable to see that her way doesn’t work and what the Divine desires is actually control and authority and not what the people actually need.
 
Chantry forces will consist of: Orlais, Nevarra, Kal Sharok, Par Vollen, Templars, Loyalist mages, and the faithful followers of Andraste gathered from rebelling regions. Renegade forces will consist of: Ferelden, the Tevinter Imperium, the Free Marches, Orzammar, Tal-Vashoth, Dalish, and the Mages. I should note that Orzammar and Kal Sharok are not providing soldiers to the war but just their support. Orzammar’s alliance with Ferelden has sealed the Frostback mountains and prevented a land invasion of Ferelden. Orzammar also provides a lot of lyrium for the Renegade’s mages which is countered with the supplies Kal Sharok gives to the Chantry forces. These two dwarven cities are at odds with each other over past grievances.
 
The quests will take place on the border regions of The Free Marches and Nevarra so that they mirror each other regardless of what side you pick. However your choices will still affect what happens following the final battle which will be fought in Val Royeaux. It is my hope that this battle will make use of many cinematic scenes to raise its momentum. During each main quest you will have to continually fight the opposition which is always present. Following the battle of Val Royeaux you will be faced with the good and the inevitable bad results of your decisions.
 
The playable origins are as follows: surfacer dwarf, elven fugitive, apostate mage, and human guardsman. These origins will mostly effect only back-story and determine race but will provide a unique personal quest in the future. The surface dwarf is the son/daughter of a merchant family who were casteless in orzammar and moved to the surface in the hope of a better life. Despite their new role on the surface, their fighting techniques continue to be passed down. The elven fugitive is a wanted criminal who has escaped to this region. He/she was a bandit who stole from the wealthy to provide for his/her people, becoming very hated by the nobility but much loved by the alienage. The apostate mage can be either human or elven and is one of the mages to escape the circle of Magi during the uprising. The human guardsman can be a warrior or a rogue and takes a role as a local commander of the city guard. The city you start in is one conflicted on which side to support so that your actions will affect which way it falls.
 
Following the conclusion of the Great War, the player will now pursue the power of Andraste. Flemeth reveals that Andraste was a mage who received the power to fight the Tevinter Imperium through a pact made unknowingly with a spirit or “the Maker”. The Maker’s fury has long since corrupted him so his return will threaten all of Thedas as he seeks his vengeance. Your new hero must now go to face this new threat and will be accompanied by the Hero of Ferelden and the Champion of Kirkwall in a last stand to protect the world. The alternative here being the possibility of traveling to the world behind the Eluvian.
 
I should note that the original concept placed the Hero of Ferelden in the role as the Renegade. However, based on the dialogue at the end of DA2 it seems unlikely that this will happen. I had also believed it to be possible to recruit the Champion as well as other heroes by completing the main quests.
 
I would like to thank everyone who has read this entire storyline pitch since I know that it is a long one. I am very interested in hearing the thoughts and opinions of others regarding this but I hope that we can keep things polite and respectful.

edit: To address the issue of the chantry-qunari alliance this was made as a desperate but "neccessary" action. The greatest fear among both religions seems to be magic so, in her desperation to defeat the Renegade's mages, the Divine may try to forge an alliance with the qunari to play on their fear of magic and promise them Seheron and revenge against the qunari's enemy, the Tevinter Imperium. This alliance is likely to have negative consequences as the qunari take a course of action the Divine did not anticipate. The Renegade will recruit the Tal-Vashoth with the promise of helping them defeat, or at least protect them from, the qunari.

Modifié par tiberius_adamantine, 14 juillet 2011 - 04:21 .

[Arokel]

Only real problen I have is the Qunari siding with the Divine. If they were doing anything they would take advantage of the war and invade everyone.

[tiberius_adamantine]

Arokel wrote...

Only real problen I have is the Qunari siding with the Divine. If they were doing anything they would take advantage of the war and invade everyone.

You bring up a good point. The idea was that the alliance was made as a "necessity" in controling the dangers of magic but I never said that it would be free of consequences. Their invasion may be what results from the alliance.

[kwinkatopo]

I don't know about this being awesome for DA3, but I can say that I do have a lot of likes and a few comments.

I like the fact that you brought about the idea of teaming up with the champion and the warden, as I'm sure everyone and their mother has thought this up if they've played both games. I like the thought of a huge war and I like the other thought that I could do some real chantry hunting. Bringing back the race-related stories; having it affect how you start like Origins would be amazing. These things are great.

I don't like or am not-so-hot on:

-The Qunari picking any side at all. What do they owe these people to consider mages outside of their race/religion a real threat? What would they owe the mages at all? In both previous games you can be any one of three classes and are able to determine what you feel in a gray manner, often resulting in people still screaming at you to be on their side. This incorporates any choices you've made to still be as gray as ever; helping Sten taken into account, the help of the Qun mage, which sides you chose in DA 1 and 2 - if you chose any at all non-ambiguously.

-Not using the power of Ferelden enginuity to make some mad scientist Dagna steal Sandal's "design" and create dwarf mages. Hell, there could be a humongous back-story on that subject alone.

-No mention of Carver/Bethany romance options or more campfire banter.

Otherwise, this was well thought-out. Kudos.

[tiberius_adamantine]

kwinkatopo wrote...

I don't know about this being awesome for DA3, but I can say that I do have a lot of likes and a few comments.

I like the fact that you brought about the idea of teaming up with the champion and the warden, as I'm sure everyone and their mother has thought this up if they've played both games. I like the thought of a huge war and I like the other thought that I could do some real chantry hunting. Bringing back the race-related stories; having it affect how you start like Origins would be amazing. These things are great.

I don't like or am not-so-hot on:

-The Qunari picking any side at all. What do they owe these people to consider mages outside of their race/religion a real threat? What would they owe the mages at all? In both previous games you can be any one of three classes and are able to determine what you feel in a gray manner, often resulting in people still screaming at you to be on their side. This incorporates any choices you've made to still be as gray as ever; helping Sten taken into account, the help of the Qun mage, which sides you chose in DA 1 and 2 - if you chose any at all non-ambiguously.

-Not using the power of Ferelden enginuity to make some mad scientist Dagna steal Sandal's "design" and create dwarf mages. Hell, there could be a humongous back-story on that subject alone.

-No mention of Carver/Bethany romance options or more campfire banter.

Otherwise, this was well thought-out. Kudos.

I adjusted the topic to explain the chantry-qunari alliance. I hope that it clarifies the issue but let me know what you think. Also I didn't mention romance options or campfire banter because they are a given in general but I have no idea about what new characters Bioware intends to add. Personally I hope that they increase the number of characters in your group to tailor more interest, or allow for romance between your character and other characters not in your party. As for previous characters I hope that they do return, in the immediate party or in general, and that you can potentially recruit them to the cause.

[DRTJR]

I didn't think the Qunari where the type to forge an Alliance

[tiberius_adamantine]

DRTJR wrote...

I didn't think the Qunari where the type to forge an Alliance

alliance might be the wrong word, as the Divine might percieve it as such mistakenly. more like, temporary cooperation or something like that.

[CrimsonZephyr]

Orlais and Nevarra wouldn't ally with each other. The two countries have been competing for land for decades. More likely that Nevarra would be a wild card.

[tiberius_adamantine]

CrimsonZephyr wrote...

Orlais and Nevarra wouldn't ally with each other. The two countries have been competing for land for decades. More likely that Nevarra would be a wild card.

Not exactly, being enemies in the past won't prevent you from being allies in the future. Orlais and Nevarra are both known for military might and being above all else ambitious. A threat to the chantry would give them common ground and allow them to potentially expand under the guise of something else, which I believe has happened before in Thedas. The potential here being for Orlais to reclaim Ferelden and Nevarra to expand into the Free Marches. This isn't neccessarily the motivation but may be too good a chance to pass up for them.

[DRTJR]

I also perceive Ferelden and Antiva as wild cards in terms of Loyalty, Mages are actively being hidden by the Ferelden government from non-Ferelden templar orders, and Antiva is in its own civil war between Zeveran and his former crows and the Antivan crows, and antiva does things different like having catacombs under Antiva city instead of burning the bodies, so if they do that differently then who knows what other shenanigans they get away with

[tiberius_adamantine]

DRTJR wrote...

I also perceive Ferelden and Antiva as wild cards in terms of Loyalty, Mages are actively being hidden by the Ferelden government from non-Ferelden templar orders, and Antiva is in its own civil war between Zeveran and his former crows and the Antivan crows, and antiva does things different like having catacombs under Antiva city instead of burning the bodies, so if they do that differently then who knows what other shenanigans they get away with

I perceived Antiva, Rivain, and the Anderfels as being neutral countries. Antiva and Rivain may have a different way of doing things but I think that they would largely be disinterested in the war and may not feel they have the resources to use on it. After all, Antiva doesn't have a standing army and a weak monarch, which would work against it being rallied for a cause. It would be interesting for them to be involved but I didn't think the odds were in its favor. Ferelden wouldn't be a wild card because we already know it disagrees with the chantry's position on mages and would protect the mages from the chantry as it has already done, not to mention they would resent Orlais attempts at assertion towards it.

[CrimsonZephyr]

DRTJR wrote...

I also perceive Ferelden and Antiva as wild cards in terms of Loyalty, Mages are actively being hidden by the Ferelden government from non-Ferelden templar orders, and Antiva is in its own civil war between Zeveran and his former crows and the Antivan crows, and antiva does things different like having catacombs under Antiva city instead of burning the bodies, so if they do that differently then who knows what other shenanigans they get away with

Ferelden would probably be anti-Chantry simply because Orlais is pro-Chantry.

[Sajuro]

I really think that I would like it better if you played as Hawke in DA3 and treat your Warden, if they didn't die, as another companion letting you choose their personality (both of them being sarcastic in my case) and have someone who already does a voice for npc's of the Warden's race and gender to give them a voice (I know my Warden spoke already since he tended to shout out during battle) I really don't like the idea of the Maker becoming evil when we have two more ancient dragons/gods in the ground and some sentient Darkspawn, doing (as it was suggested in another thread) something to corrupt both of the remaining old gods and create a super blight.

[tiberius_adamantine]

Sajuro wrote...

I really think that I would like it better if you played as Hawke in DA3 and treat your Warden, if they didn't die, as another companion letting you choose their personality (both of them being sarcastic in my case) and have someone who already does a voice for npc's of the Warden's race and gender to give them a voice (I know my Warden spoke already since he tended to shout out during battle) I really don't like the idea of the Maker becoming evil when we have two more ancient dragons/gods in the ground and some sentient Darkspawn, doing (as it was suggested in another thread) something to corrupt both of the remaining old gods and create a super blight.

I remember reading something regarding the development of DA2 which talked about the idea of a super blight. They had stated that they didn't want to do that because it would feel clich'ed and just wouldn't work for them. DA2 seemed to lead up to the war so this will likely take focus in the next game. If you use a npc voice actor for the warden he/she will inevitable sound too much like other people and will lose originality. Hawke's disappearance seems to signify that they don't intend for him to take the leading role in the next game, same as with the warden. Besides a third hero will add a new sense of complexity to the story and allow more to the gamers than using a character already well established. Using a continuous character works well for Mass Effect but I think Bioware may want to try a new  approach to dragon age.

[tiberius_adamantine]

edit: sorry accidental doublepost

Modifié par tiberius_adamantine, 14 juillet 2011 - 07:48 .

[Sajuro]

If it isn't Hawke then I would hope it was a defined race for our character since I liked the fact that I had a voice in DA2

[Icy Magebane]

Well, that was actually a pretty interesting read, but I'm going to have to agree with the folks who said the Qunari wouldn't be involved in this at all. Now maybe some Tal-Vashoth could be persuaded to join either side, but the Qun just isn't flexible enough to allow for an alliance of this nature. The Qunari have their own way of dealing with mages, and wouldn't necessarily see a mage uprising in Thedas as anything they should be concerned with. I also think Tevinter would try to remain neutral at best, but it might even be likely that they'd actively oppose the freedom of mages in other lands... after all, normal men and women, even Templars, aren't as much of a threat to them as other mages. They just don't seem the type to intentionally create stronger rivals...

I just read that edit about the Qunari and I'm just not convinced... I honestly don't believe anyone would trust them, so the Divine simply allowing herself to be backstabbed is unlikely. It's obvious you really want them as part of this idea, but it might not be feasible.

But like I said, this was interesting, and might be a good framework for a new game. A good idea overall that just needs a little polish.

[Davillo]

I hope that the Amell warden is the cannon warden for dragon age because he would fit in to this perfectly and on top of that hes one of the most powerful mages in thedas so yea.

[MadMoskus]

You mean that the player in DA3 will have to side with the mage rebellion?

Please tell me my assumptions are wrong. Dragon Age is over for me if I cannot reestablish Chantry control and wipe out those rebel scum!

[tiberius_adamantine]

If it isn't Hawke then I would hope it was a defined race for our character since I liked the fact that I had a voice in DA2

personally I liked being able to have a choice regarding race and enjoyed the uniqueness it adds to the story. Being able to choose doesn't mean not having a voice, they can either use the same voice actors for all races, being seperated by gender of course, or they can add new ones.

Well, that was actually a pretty interesting read, but I'm going to have to agree with the folks who said the Qunari wouldn't be involved in this at all. Now maybe some Tal-Vashoth could be persuaded to join either side, but the Qun just isn't flexible enough to allow for an alliance of this nature. The Qunari have their own way of dealing with mages, and wouldn't necessarily see a mage uprising in Thedas as anything they should be concerned with. I also think Tevinter would try to remain neutral at best, but it might even be likely that they'd actively oppose the freedom of mages in other lands... after all, normal men and women, even Templars, aren't as much of a threat to them as other mages. They just don't seem the type to intentionally create stronger rivals...

I doubt Tevinter would remain neutral in the fight given their history with the chantry. Their differing beliefs caused them to create their own church with a strong distrinction between the former. They would likely join the fight because if the chantry forces win it posses considerable risk to their independance. Supporting the rebellion would be their best chance at protecting themselves and to gain new power. The stronger ties would persist even following the immediate war and grant the winning side considerable prestige. Not joining might have seen them facing a unified chantry force in the future. The qunari might participate because history has shown the greatest threat to them is the presence of magic so allowing it to rapidly grow might prove a problem for them in the future, and the Tevinters being part of it might add a little incentive.

You mean that the player in DA3 will have to side with the mage rebellion?

Please tell me my assumptions are wrong. Dragon Age is over for me if I cannot reestablish Chantry control and wipe out those rebel scum!

I'm not sure where you got that idea but you will have a choice is supporting either the Chantry or the Rebellion. Quest areas will be likely repeated but who you are fighting for will be your choice.

Modifié par tiberius_adamantine, 15 juillet 2011 - 05:07 .

[Huntress]

So the chantry is going to get a powerful mage with the name Renegade.. lol Chantry sees mages are evil, cursed and yet they'll call for a powerful mage to lead them? Can I laugh now?

If the chantry needs a general to lead the army is NOT going to be a mage, mages are third class citizen and they should be grateful of the chantry for allowing them to live.

The tavinters mages gives a rat about the chantry or anyone who is inferior to them.. yes if you are not powerful with many slaves, you die in tavinter. Tavinter mages have demons on their side, they need not of a young mage coming up their door asking for help.. food thats all this mage/chart meant to a tavinter mage.. food for the demons.

Ozammar is a free dwarven nation, they don't give a rat about humans war or mages in general. Yes the hero of ferelden made a king blah blah History.. If dwarves join any of this 2 sides they'll scr** themself up, I am very certain no king from Orzammar is gonna waste time or efforts to be part of it.
And if for some reason Kal Sharok takes alliance with the chantry, Ozammar will shut the doors until the attackers go home from top or dies from darkspawns plague or as food resource for darkspawn in the tunnels. True story.

Par Vollen?/ isn't that the place that qunary settle in? qunary and chantry walking together.. rofl can I laugh? One of them want to force people to bend to the maker, the other, want to force people to work for the better good of others, not themself, just others.. right

Andraste was a chasind, do that means we are going to go deep into the wilds and hunt for this mystical powers?

I agree with different races as main character or play as Hawke s/he started the hole thing anyway. If the choices bioware gives is new chart ( all races)or hawke, i'll play as hawke to keep going with the story.

[Sith Grey Warden]

So you're forcing the player to pick a side right from the start? I don't think that would work well as any new players would have little idea about what has shaped two sides. A small amount of information could not catch them up sufficiently, I think, but perhaps the initial choice of a side could be after the first act, which would be spent trying to survive/help others/whatever while caught between both sides?

Other than that, this looks like a great idea.

[DRTJR]

Huntress wrote...

Ozammar is a free dwarven nation, they don't give a rat about humans war or mages in general. Yes the hero of ferelden made a king blah blah History.. If dwarves join any of this 2 sides they'll scr** themself up, I am very certain no king from Orzammar is gonna waste time or efforts to be part of it.
And if for some reason Kal Sharok takes alliance with the chantry, Ozammar will shut the doors until the attackers go home from top or dies from darkspawns plague or as food resource for darkspawn in the tunnels. True story.

the the dwarves of Ozammar are probably rolling in coin because of the increase in buyers

[tiberius_adamantine]

Huntress wrote...

So the chantry is going to get a powerful mage with the name Renegade.. lol Chantry sees mages are evil, cursed and yet they'll call for a powerful mage to lead them? Can I laugh now?

If the chantry needs a general to lead the army is NOT going to be a mage, mages are third class citizen and they should be grateful of the chantry for allowing them to live.

The tavinters mages gives a rat about the chantry or anyone who is inferior to them.. yes if you are not powerful with many slaves, you die in tavinter. Tavinter mages have demons on their side, they need not of a young mage coming up their door asking for help.. food thats all this mage/chart meant to a tavinter mage.. food for the demons.

Ozammar is a free dwarven nation, they don't give a rat about humans war or mages in general. Yes the hero of ferelden made a king blah blah History.. If dwarves join any of this 2 sides they'll scr** themself up, I am very certain no king from Orzammar is gonna waste time or efforts to be part of it.
And if for some reason Kal Sharok takes alliance with the chantry, Ozammar will shut the doors until the attackers go home from top or dies from darkspawns plague or as food resource for darkspawn in the tunnels. True story.

Par Vollen?/ isn't that the place that qunary settle in? qunary and chantry walking together.. rofl can I laugh? One of them want to force people to bend to the maker, the other, want to force people to work for the better good of others, not themself, just others.. right

Andraste was a chasind, do that means we are going to go deep into the wilds and hunt for this mystical powers?

I agree with different races as main character or play as Hawke s/he started the hole thing anyway. If the choices bioware gives is new chart ( all races)or hawke, i'll play as hawke to keep going with the story.

You obviously misread my post. The Renegade is leading the forces opposing the chantry. She wants to see the Divine dead and end the chantry as an official power but not as a religion. People think very little about the Tevinter Imperium but what little has been revealed has been one sided. Even though Slavery is a very big black spot on their image, they may be more progressed in other areas. They would likely support the Renegade because her views are similar to their own and would make the world friendlier to their beliefs. This is basic self interest at play and all history proves that it happens, even now. I already stated that Orzammar isn't providing military troops but its support. The relationship between Orzammar and Ferelden has already improved and doing commerce with the Renegade is a sound business choice even without the promise of future support against the darkspawn. The Frostback mountains would then be able to be secured with Ferelden forces and the king of Orzammar stating that any intrusion by Chantry forces will be a violation of its independance and an act of war. Kal Sharok and Orzammar have a bitter history and different proximity so them supporting different sides makes alot of sense. The Qunari might get involved also out of self interest. This doesn't mean, however, that they are working for the Chantry or even intentionally working with them but historically speaking magic has proved to be the greatest threat to them. This serves as a means to eliminate a huge percentage of the mage population and retaliate against Tevinter, possible granting them full control of Seheron or even more territory. These powers seeking to satisfy their ambitions should therefore be very plausible.

I should also note that I think Andraste actually belonged to the Alamarri or something barbarians and led the crusade away from Ferelden and towards Minrathos. Given that I'm not sure why you think that it would  be deep in the wilds.

Modifié par tiberius_adamantine, 17 juillet 2011 - 04:33 .

[DRTJR]

The Dwarves probibly would play both sides, buy selling Lyrium to both the Templars and Magi. and they wouldn't risk the Dwarf power on a human/Elven war. I could see the Dalish getting caught up in the war on the side of the mages.