1939 réponses à ce sujet

[upsettingshorts]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Weak excuse is weak.

No it isn't.

Metagaming undermines the entire purpose of evaluating the ingame logic behind a decision.  If you want to metagame, that's fine, but it has no use in such discussions. 

"Because I think Cerberus will misuse it" is different from "I know that destroying it will work out anyway, and BioWare made Cerberus indoctrinated in ME3."

It's not a weak excuse.  It's not even an excuse.  It's a simple observation that you argument is by definition invalid, because Shepard doesn't and can't know any of it.

Someone With Mass wrote...

I wouldn't call getting humanity a Council seat a failure.

One success doesn't change their entire record.   Or else Cerberus would get a ton of anti-fail points for Project Lazarus. 

Arcian wrote...

Observations in-game and elsewhere within the parameters of established game lore.

That's not data. 

What are your metrics for determining fail? 

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 15 juillet 2011 - 10:54 .

[Homebound]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

It won't be, because it wouldn't be much of a choice if the outcome of one side is that important to the plot.

So you mean this.

WOW i just learned how to win a chessgame in 4moves!

[Homebound]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

The STG, the Alliance and the asari Justicars.

The STG doesn't seem to fail, but they're a tool.  Justicars aren't an organization - that I can tell - or a political entity.

The Alliance fails all the damn time. 

Hellbound555 wrote...

Im not assuming either of those.

I can find better people.

That is an assumption. 

I disagree. I think if Shepard amassed the largest fleet in the known history of the mass effect galaxy, composed of every space-aged race, we could beat the reapers.

teamwork ftw.

Modifié par Hellbound555, 15 juillet 2011 - 10:55 .

[Someone With Mass]

Again, I don't see why I should care. Oh no, I can't hold my arguments against a bunch of nameless twerps on the internet just because I happen to mention something about metagaming. Big whoop.

[Kaiser Shepard]

Arcian wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Name an organization or political entity in Mass Effect that isn't failing constantly.

The Illuminated Primacy.

Also:
*failure chart*

I believe the Salarian Union should be somewhat higher, as they were responsible for the rachni and krogan both.

[upsettingshorts]

Hellbound555 wrote...

I think if Shepard amassed the largest fleet in the known history of the mass effect galaxy, composed of every space-aged race, we could beat the reapers.

That's also an assumption.

Not that assumptions are bad, you have to make them with either decision.  But only an irresponsible short-sighted person doesn't consider that they might be, you know, catastrophically incorrect.

Someone With Mass wrote...

Again, I don't see why I should care. Oh no, I can't hold my arguments against a bunch of nameless twerps on the internet just because I happen to mention something about metagaming. Big whoop.

Then why post if you don't accept the premise of the discussion?  

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 15 juillet 2011 - 10:57 .

[Someone With Mass]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

One success doesn't change their entire record.   Or else Cerberus would get a ton of anti-fail points for Project Lazarus.  

What the Cerberus did there didn't benefit mankind as a whole. Being on the Council does.

[Homebound]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Weak excuse is weak.

No it isn't.

Metagaming undermines the entire purpose of evaluating the ingame logic behind a decision.  If you want to metagame, that's fine, but it has no use in such discussions. 

"Because I think Cerberus will misuse it" is different from "I know that destroying it will work out anyway, and BioWare made Cerberus indoctrinated in ME3."

It's not a weak excuse.  It's not even an excuse.  It's a simple observation that you argument is by definition invalid, because Shepard doesn't and can't know any of it.

Someone With Mass wrote...

I wouldn't call getting humanity a Council seat a failure.

One success doesn't change their entire record.   Or else Cerberus would get a ton of anti-fail points for Project Lazarus. 

Arcian wrote...

Observations in-game and elsewhere within the parameters of established game lore.

That's not data. 

What are your metrics for determining fail? 

a player's decision to save or not to save the base because of out-of-game knowledge is still a valid decision to me.

[Homebound]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Hellbound555 wrote...

I think if Shepard amassed the largest fleet in the known history of the mass effect galaxy, composed of every space-aged race, we could beat the reapers.

That's also an assumption.

Someone With Mass wrote...

Again, I don't see why I should care. Oh no, I can't hold my arguments against a bunch of nameless twerps on the internet just because I happen to mention something about metagaming. Big whoop.

Then why post if you don't accept the premise of the discussion?  

So you think 1 collector base is going to save the entire galaxy?

[Dave of Canada]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Again, I don't see why I should care. Oh no, I can't hold my arguments against a bunch of nameless twerps on the internet just because I happen to mention something about metagaming. Big whoop.

Why bother posting, if it even counts as posting, in the thread if you don't care? You obviously don't care for the discussion, simply leave instead of being childish about it.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 15 juillet 2011 - 10:58 .

[upsettingshorts]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Or else Cerberus would get a ton of anti-fail points for Project Lazarus.

What the Cerberus did there didn't benefit mankind as a whole.

How the hell do you figure that?

Project Lazarus is the plot of Mass Effect 2, you know, the plot Shepard wins.  

Hellbound555 wrote...

a player's decision to save or not to save the base because of out-of-game knowledge is still a valid decision to me.

It's a valid reason for the player. It's not a valid reason for Shepard.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 15 juillet 2011 - 10:59 .

[upsettingshorts]

Arcian wrote...

Ratio of successful actions in relation to failed actions over a relative amount of time. Under which circumstances Cerberus greatly outfails everyone else.

Again, I'll need to see your data.  Granted, I'm entirely certain you just drew up a chart that said, "Haha Cerberus totally fails more I'm going to make a chart so I can use it in posts!"  And then made Cerberus' fail cartoonishly disproportionate for effect.

Hellbound555 wrote...

So you think 1 collector base is going to save the entire galaxy?

I think it's absolutely foolish to think it couldn't possibly help significantly.  

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 15 juillet 2011 - 11:01 .

[Someone With Mass]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Why bother posting, if it even counts as posting, in the thread if you don't care? You obviously don't care for the discussion, simply leave instead of being childish about it.

Because I enjoy poking fun at butthurt people with double standards.

[Dave of Canada]

Never mind, no point in responding to a troll.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 15 juillet 2011 - 11:02 .

[upsettingshorts]

That's not what double standard means.

A decision for the player is demonstrably not the same thing as a decision for Shepard.

[Someone With Mass]

Upsettingshorts wrote...
Project Lazarus is the plot of Mass Effect 2, you know, the plot Shepard wins.  

Or not. PL and everyone involved stopped being important to the plot the second Shepard woke up.

[Homebound]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Hellbound555 wrote...

So you think 1 collector base is going to save the entire galaxy?

I think it's absolutely foolish to think it couldn't possibly help significantly.  

Reaper tech indoctrinates people. Anyone sent to the base would go under.

Modifié par Hellbound555, 15 juillet 2011 - 11:03 .

[Pulletlamer]

Hellbound555 wrote...

So you think 1 collector base is going to save the entire galaxy?

This. Especially considering that Cerberus: " A nearly (if not) xenophobic organization with a well deserved  fame of being terrorists and with plenty of dark secrets to hide" is in possesion of it.

[upsettingshorts]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Or not. PL and everyone involved stopped being important to the plot the second Shepard woke up.

Nonsense.  Project Lazarus became the Lazarus Cell, whose objective was to investigate and defeat the Collectors.

Mission accomplished.

Hellbound555 wrote...

Reaper tech indoctrinates people. Anyone sent to the base would go under.

Another assumption.  Reaper tech indoctrinates people sometimes.  Or, in metagame terms, when the plot demands it indoctrinate something.

EDI is enhanced with Reaper tech, how many crew members of the Normandy were indoctrinated because of this?

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 15 juillet 2011 - 11:05 .

[Someone With Mass]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Never mind, no point in responding to a troll.

And nothing of importance was lost.

[Homebound]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Or not. PL and everyone involved stopped being important to the plot the second Shepard woke up.

Nonsense.  Project Lazarus became the Lazarus Cell, whose objective was to investigate and defeat the Collectors.

Mission accomplished.

Hellbound555 wrote...

Reaper tech indoctrinates people. Anyone sent to the base would go under.

Another assumption.  Reaper tech indoctrinates people sometimes.  Or, in metagame terms, when the plot demands it indoctrinate something.

EDI is enhanced with Reaper tech, how many crew members of the Normandy were indoctrinated because of this?

So why dont you agree with blowing up the base?

[upsettingshorts]

Arcian wrote...

I'm sorry, that data is classified. We can't hand out sensitive information to individuals suspected of terrorist activity.

Where did I say I (or more accurately, my Shepard) kept the base?  

Hellbound555 wrote...

So why dont you agree with blowing up the base?

Who says I don't?  Maybe I just think most of the reasons for blowing it up are shortsighted and/or metagamey.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 15 juillet 2011 - 11:08 .

[Homebound]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Arcian wrote...

I'm sorry, that data is classified. We can't hand out sensitive information to individuals suspected of terrorist activity.

Where did I say I (or more accurately, my Shepard) kept the base?  

Hellbound555 wrote...

So why dont you agree with blowing up the base?

Who says I don't?  Maybe I just think most of the reasons for blowing it up are shortsighted and/or metagamey.

so whats your stance on the collector base and for what reason?