1939 réponses à ce sujet

[Seboist]

Saphra Deden wrote...

This thread just goes to show you that Paragon players have a pathological need to kiss Bioware's butt.

Why wouldn't they? We've seen how well the Paragon choices get pampered.

[tobynator89]

Saphra Deden wrote...

This thread just goes to show you that Paragon players have a pathological need to kiss Bioware's butt.

renegade preferrer here and still think it's logical to destroy the base.

[Zatwu]

My guess is Cerberus is just a bit weaker if you destroy it due to not having all the equipment intact.

[DrNavi]

tobynator89 wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

This thread just goes to show you that Paragon players have a pathological need to kiss Bioware's butt.

renegade preferrer here and still think it's logical to destroy the base.

not for my renegade, she does what she feels can benefits her best, whether it be choosing Morinth and ash because they are less moral or letting doctor archer continue his experiments 

[redneckwonderland]

I would have kept it if it could be under my control, or give our shadow broker friends control over all research.

[-Skorpious-]

I'm a paragon at heart, but I always keep the base in my default playthrough. Why? By the end of ME2 Shepard is still grasping at straws when it comes to conceiving a plan/tactic that will successfully end the reaper invasion.

Despite not fully trusting Cerberus, there is no logical benefit to destroy the only possible source of reaper intel...unless one considers Cerberus' horrible track-record of failed experiments, yet, even that is not reason enough to potentially doom the galaxy.

[essarr71]

to OP:

I stopped reading after your answer to the first question.

Using the Shadow Broker as an ethical/moral compass (and yes, I use ethical/moral because you ponder the "soul of OUR species") is just silly. And claiming everyone would have reaper tech in the end doesn't justify it. If everyone got a gun when they turned 18, it doesn't mean its a good idea to give one to a 10 year old because he'll get it eventually.

[tobynator89]

DrNavi wrote...

tobynator89 wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

This thread just goes to show you that Paragon players have a pathological need to kiss Bioware's butt.

renegade preferrer here and still think it's logical to destroy the base.

not for my renegade, she does what she feels can benefits her best, whether it be choosing Morinth and ash because they are less moral or letting doctor archer continue his experiments 

Agreed with the renegade attitude. Shep knows perfectly well from cerberus actions however that she is a puppet to be tricked used and spent untill she ceases to be usefull.

And any shep with survival instincts KNOWS that will only be a temporary thing. Next time, being sent out on false pretenses will get her killed. And my shep is not ok with that.

[ArcanistLibram]

Genocide is fun.

[alperez]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

That's rather the point. There are a lot of things you can't take into account... but having your best reasonings circumvented regardless isn't exactly generous of them.

Ok firstly we still don't know how the collector base choice will affect us the player, we have some idea how it affected the universe around us but we ourselves may see certain benefits or not from the choice we made.

Secondly, Harbinger himself says the reapers will find another way, wouldn't this also be true of anyone else in the universe, I mean despite your actions all your really doing is delaying the reapers, so why should your choice in the collector base be any different in regards to everyone else.

We stop plan A of the reapers, they move to b or c or whatever, we deny access to the base in its entirety to TIM, he finds another way to access the information/tech if it works for one than it also should work for another so how is this circumventing our best reasonings?

What you as Shepard can only really do is to choose and act based on your info and what situation your in, you can't predict the outcome or foresee every possible potential consequence, otherwise you'd spend so much time agonising over every choice by the time you made one it would be too late.

[Malanek]

essarr71 wrote...
Using the Shadow Broker as an ethical/moral compass (and yes, I use ethical/moral because you ponder the "soul of OUR species") is just silly. And claiming everyone would have reaper tech in the end doesn't justify it. If everyone got a gun when they turned 18, it doesn't mean its a good idea to give one to a 10 year old because he'll get it eventually.

IMO using this analogy is innacurate. A better analogy is giving everyone a gun when the country is about to be invaded. It hurts the enemy but at the end how do you disarm your own population. On the other hand if you win without arming your population, your population would have acquired the enemies weapons leaving you with the same problem.

[essarr71]

Malanek999 wrote...

essarr71 wrote...
Using the Shadow Broker as an ethical/moral compass (and yes, I use ethical/moral because you ponder the "soul of OUR species") is just silly. And claiming everyone would have reaper tech in the end doesn't justify it. If everyone got a gun when they turned 18, it doesn't mean its a good idea to give one to a 10 year old because he'll get it eventually.

IMO using this analogy is innacurate. A better analogy is giving everyone a gun when the country is about to be invaded. It hurts the enemy but at the end how do you disarm your own population. On the other hand if you win without arming your population, your population would have acquired the enemies weapons leaving you with the same problem.

Sure, but you're not giving the gun to the country, you're giving the gun to an underground group intent on it's own agenda.  Age might have been a bad example.. was meant more for using it responsibly.  Would giving the base to the Alliance, or Council, or Salarians have made you change your mind one way or another?

After countless threads about it, I don't think anyone ever questions it's tactical potential.  It's just about handing something very dangerous to a dangerous person with a questionable track record and intentions.

[DrNavi]

tobynator89 wrote...

DrNavi wrote...

tobynator89 wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

This thread just goes to show you that Paragon players have a pathological need to kiss Bioware's butt.

renegade preferrer here and still think it's logical to destroy the base.

not for my renegade, she does what she feels can benefits her best, whether it be choosing Morinth and ash because they are less moral or letting doctor archer continue his experiments 

Agreed with the renegade attitude. Shep knows perfectly well from cerberus actions however that she is a puppet to be tricked used and spent untill she ceases to be usefull.

And any shep with survival instincts KNOWS that will only be a temporary thing. Next time, being sent out on false pretenses will get her killed. And my shep is not ok with that.

you have good reasons, mines just willing to take risks to stop the reapers and cerberus is a good resource.....for the time being 

[Warkupo]

Mostly to ****** TIM off. That and a nice explosion at the end of the movie makes a better movie. Same reason I saved the Destiny Ascension; it simply felt and looked more heroic.

Edit: Also you are *really* late on the 'first to complain' thing. Like, missed the boat and had to wait until planes were invented to evacuate you kind of late. 

Modifié par Warkupo, 15 juillet 2011 - 02:41 .

[ISpeakTheTruth]

Here is my main reason for destroying the base rather than giving it to Cerberus... and theres the reason we'd have to give it to Cerberus a group that has had a long history of failures under there belt, a group where bating 500 is their happy dream.

Every cell Cerberus has ever shown to have has either been destroyed, gone 'rogue', or out right failed. The only cell that even remotely succedded was bringing Shepard back and that one was two seconds away from being a two billion credit failure. And we want to give these people the Collector base? Are you high?

There are two ways I saw this working out. 1) The cell responsible for the base either gets completely destroyed and the base is lost. 2) The cell goes 'rogue' and unleashes all kinds of havoc on the galaxy weakening our allies when we need to be strong 3) They fail so utterly that they all get indoctrinated and now have advanced tech to use to hurt the galaxy again when we have to be strong.

If there was an option to give the base to the Alliance, the Council, or the Geth I would have done that in a heart beat but I can't give tech to people who have shown to fail/ or make worse everything they touch and I'm not going to give them the chance to do so on a larger scale.

[ThePwener]

Destroying the base IS a stupid idea. As Dean clearly pointed out, there are going to be dead Reapers (obviously), and everyone will begin studying them in no time. Keeping the base just gives humanity a heads up, making sure we don't get pushed around by the Batarians and the Turians.

[JamieCOTC]

Without metagaming it comes down to a choice. Do you trust TIM or not. Despite what everyone says, Shepard does not keep the base. S/he gives it to TIM. There's even a great sentimental paragon argument for keeping the base. If you destroy it, then all those people who died, died for nothing. What paragon Shep should do is download as much data from the base as possible and transfer it to the Normandy, tell TIM to go to hell and blow the place. One could argue, that's exactly what happened.

[Kaiser Shepard]

To come back on this, I'd say that Shepard summed up my opinion pretty well: "I know what you are, and the price of dealing with you."

The Illusive Man is a schemer and a manipulator, and those are never to be trusted.

[essarr71]

laecraft wrote...
You traded the salvation of the galaxy for a brief moment of personal satisfaction, and you want long-term consequences, as well?

Where does it say saving the base doesn't backfire?  It's all speculation.

It's even a possibility you turn the thing on and try to access it and a picture of Wayne Knight comes on repeating that you didn't say the magic word. 

[Dean_the_Young]

essarr71 wrote...

to OP:

I stopped reading after your answer to the first question.

Using the Shadow Broker as an ethical/moral compass (and yes, I use ethical/moral because you ponder the "soul of OUR species") is just silly. And claiming everyone would have reaper tech in the end doesn't justify it. If everyone got a gun when they turned 18, it doesn't mean its a good idea to give one to a 10 year old because he'll get it eventually.

That's a shame. Perhaps if you had finished reading, you might have realized I wasn't using the Shadow Broker as an ethical/moral compass, but as a demonstration that Shepard's line was undermined.

[tobynator89]

DrNavi wrote...

tobynator89 wrote...

DrNavi wrote...

tobynator89 wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

This thread just goes to show you that Paragon players have a pathological need to kiss Bioware's butt.

renegade preferrer here and still think it's logical to destroy the base.

not for my renegade, she does what she feels can benefits her best, whether it be choosing Morinth and ash because they are less moral or letting doctor archer continue his experiments 

Agreed with the renegade attitude. Shep knows perfectly well from cerberus actions however that she is a puppet to be tricked used and spent untill she ceases to be usefull.

And any shep with survival instincts KNOWS that will only be a temporary thing. Next time, being sent out on false pretenses will get her killed. And my shep is not ok with that.

you have good reasons, mines just willing to take risks to stop the reapers and cerberus is a good resource.....for the time being 

Here is a good hint for any good strategist. If you KNOW an ally is a temporary one, then don't help him any more than you have to. He'll be using those resources against you.

Or said simpler, a temporary ally is no ally at all.

[LeviathanZero]

I always figured that the Collector Base was going to have a similar effect to the derelict reaper (ie, send the people on it mad due to subliminal indoctrination), but much stronger, more targeted, and likely with a side-order of gene-meddling.

Personally I'd rather not have a pile of scientists and guards turn into Reaper-followers.

As to the "Well Cerberus are already against me in ME3, what difference does it make?" we'll just have to wait and see.

[Dean_the_Young]

alperez wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

That's rather the point. There are a lot of things you can't take into account... but having your best reasonings circumvented regardless isn't exactly generous of them.

Ok firstly we still don't know how the collector base choice will affect us the player, we have some idea how it affected the universe around us but we ourselves may see certain benefits or not from the choice we made.

We also know what the Collector Base decision didn't effect... and right now, that includes a number of things that were common reasons for not choosing it.

Secondly, Harbinger himself says the reapers will find another way, wouldn't this also be true of anyone else in the universe, I mean despite your actions all your really doing is delaying the reapers, so why should your choice in the collector base be any different in regards to everyone else.

Has no real bearing to what this thread is about.

We stop plan A of the reapers, they move to b or c or whatever, we deny access to the base in its entirety to TIM, he finds another way to access the information/tech if it works for one than it also should work for another so how is this circumventing our best reasonings?

Because your action you did for those reasons did not do what your reasonings were supposed to achieve.

What you as Shepard can only really do is to choose and act based on your info and what situation your in, you can't predict the outcome or foresee every possible potential consequence, otherwise you'd spend so much time agonising over every choice by the time you made one it would be too late.

You as a player can certainly be annoyed if/when Bioware takes a choice and goes '...nah, screw it,' and does any number of things regardless of what the choice was supposed to achieve (or prevent).

If, after killing the Rachni, we learned that a whole new Rachni Queen was cloned and so Rachni were on the loose, that would be a similar problem. No, we might not know what this queen will do in ME3, but we do know what killing the Queen in ME1 was supposed to do, and that was remove the Rachni from the future.