1939 réponses à ce sujet

[Mystranna Kelteel]

Dave of Canada wrote...
Cerberus is a group of 100-200 individuals. Collectors, a large number with a lot more stasis pods in a large ship, were harvesting humans for years and only created the Reaper baby. 100-200 individuals wouldn't be able to kidnap millions of people and melt them down to study the results before the Reapers arrive, nor would they be capable of doing so even if they had all the time in the world.

I've covered this multiple times before in great length, though in short:
Cerberus is too small sized (to Shepard's knowledge) for the Base to be of any harm even in the worst case scenarios, the way they operate with different cells with assure that if indocrination would strike it would never hit all the cells at once and only inflict harm in isolated areas without any fear of TIM being indocrinated (as he's never at the actual projects except for once in Retribution).

They ruined this with the "CERBERUS IS INDOCRINATED" ME3 info, though it's still valid for thinking without metagame at the decision itself.

Okay, you're arguing from a logistics standpoint.  That's fine; yes, it is impossible.  I was posing it as a theoretical.  Like I said, I was only trying to gauge the limits of your "end justify the means" mentality, and it sounds like, yes, you would be fine with the idea of Cerberus killing hundreds of thousands or millions of people [assuming they could] for the sake of educating themselves on the reapers' physical characteristics.

For your second point I have to simply disagree.  Overlord has shown how dangerous a Cerberus screw-up can be.  Just because they themselves are small doesn't mean their immoral experiments can't and won't extend their own reach.

[Someone With Mass]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Guess how those work? Indocrination.

Or not, since you can just have some drones like the geth hold a guy down until it impales him. You know, like the geth did the first time we saw Dragon's Teeth.

The victim doesn't have to be indoctrinated, since the husk process has nothing to do with it.

[Dave of Canada]

Mesina2 wrote...

Great idea.
It's not like rushing something screw up something.
Oh right, Overlord.

You mean the successful project which achieved it's goals that allows Cerberus to control the Geth, to protect humanity and use them as shock troopers to save human lives?

Destroy the artifacts.

Don't get captured by Reapers, you're royally screwed either way.

Worked well for the previous cycles.

Cerberus only has half of dozen cells at one time.

So let's see what cells in ME2 and afterward Cerberus has( I only know for 2 real names):

Political cell
Military cell
Atlas cell
Lazarus cell
Derelict Reaper cell
Retribution cell

Cover corperations don't count as cells, nor are the politicans. Pre-Retribution, it's safe to assume TIM has more than one cell studying Reaper tech considering it's the entire purpose of his organization.

[CroGamer002]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

Dragon's teeth.

Guess how those work? Indocrination.

Different kind of indoctrination.

Only way to stop that indoctrination is to torch the body before it gets huskified. Once that person get's put on Dragon's teeth, it's dead.

That person can be put on Dragon teeth by force.
Replay Eden Prime when Ashley runs. I doubt that guy went on his own to that Dragon teeth.

[Dave of Canada]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Or not, since you can just have some drones like the geth hold a guy down until it impales him. You know, like the geth did the first time we saw Dragon's Teeth.

The victim doesn't have to be indoctrinated, since the husk process has nothing to do with it.

They don't have Geth at their disposal anymore (at least from what we know), most husks we see are either dragged there from other planets (Cannibals on Earth?) or possibly indocrinated and commit suicide by huskification. Not sure if Husks can huskify other husks, though.

[AcidGlow]

i dont trust cerberus so wether my character is a paragon or renegade i make sure i destroy that base so cerberus cant use it and if it does have a bad effect in me3 i can just do the suicide mission again in like 30-40 mins

[Dave of Canada]

Mesina2 wrote...

Not on Eden Prime, some other unknown Reaper artifact, it took days for indoctrination.

The only thing close to a Reaper artifact we find on those quests though are at the very end, while he's been indocrinated throughout the whole quest series.

[Mr.House]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Or not, since you can just have some drones like the geth hold a guy down until it impales him. You know, like the geth did the first time we saw Dragon's Teeth.

The victim doesn't have to be indoctrinated, since the husk process has nothing to do with it.

They don't have Geth at their disposal anymore (at least from what we know), most husks we see are either dragged there from other planets (Cannibals on Earth?) or possibly indocrinated and commit suicide by huskification. Not sure if Husks can huskify other husks, though.

Well Husks are getting advanced and a bit more smarter now.

[Leonia]

I hope we learn more about indoctrination, husks, dragon's teeth.. all that stuff in ME3. So far we really don't know how any of it works, only where it comes from and what purpose it seems to have.

[Mystranna Kelteel]

Dave of Canada wrote...
You mean the successful project which achieved it's goals that allows Cerberus to control the Geth, to protect humanity and use them as shock troopers to save human lives?

The successful project that had the entire research team wiped out and almost released a sentient, independent being with the power to hack synthetics [and organics, apparently...] across the galaxy?

Hardly a success.  It was pure [videogame] luck that godShep happened to be in the vicinity at the time of crisis.

[Leonia]

And to be fair, potentially wiping out the Heretics at Heretic Station sort of makes the Overlord project moot.

But if Admiral Xen from the Migrant Fleet had got her hands on it.. oh boy.

Modifié par leonia42, 15 juillet 2011 - 02:22 .

[Someone With Mass]

I don't think keep throwing people at a problem until it's solved is such a good idea, because eventually, you're going to run out of people. Not to mention that it's a huge waste of talent to throw engineers, scientists and doctors at something like indoctrination when they can help studying the effects of indoctrination without sacrificing themselves. And they probably could've helped with future projects too.

[Dave of Canada]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

The successful project that had the entire research team wiped out and almost released a sentient, independent being with the power to hack synthetics [and organics, apparently...] across the galaxy?

Hardly a success.

Though the project's end goal was reached, the geth are fully under control by David Archer and do not pose a threat to humanity and can be used against the Reapers as shock troopers to save human lives.

While it's methods were brutal and the end result could've been much worse, Cerberus dispatched Shepard to deal with it and he/she did so. The project itself, regardless of what could've been, is still a success in the end (unless Shepard decides to take David away, then it's a half-success because we've gained knowledge that the Geth can be hacked and we know how).

And I think the only reason Shepard was "hacked" was because of his/her cybernetic implants.

leonia42 wrote...

And to be fair, potentially wiping out the Heretics at Heretic Station sort of makes the Overlord project moot. 

I always do the quest pre-Legion (I always do the sidequests where it would fit the most timeline wise and I don't want crew to die post-Legion), that way Shepard has no way of knowing there's two different factions of Geth and that "true" Geth aren't interested in fighting humanity.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 15 juillet 2011 - 02:26 .

[CroGamer002]

Dave of Canada wrote...

You mean the successful project which achieved it's goals that allows Cerberus to control the Geth, to protect humanity and use them as shock troopers to save human lives?

You call that a success?

They lost over 50 people there and only person that can control Geth can't even do it without killing everyone on sight.
And you can send David out of that facility.
Colossal failure.

And even if you let Cerberus keep him, it is still the same person with weak mind.

Worked well for the previous cycles.

In previous cycles all planets were isolated.

You know, plan that Reapers tried in ME1 and very possibly again in ME2 to invade galaxy?

Cover corperations don't count as cells, nor are the politicans. Pre-Retribution, it's safe to assume TIM has more than one cell studying Reaper tech considering it's the entire purpose of his organization.

How is killing politicians and the pope helpful against the Reapers?


Also I'm pretty sure Miranda said there is political and military cell.

[CroGamer002]

Dave of Canada wrote...


The only thing close to a Reaper artifact we find on those quests though are at the very end, while he's been indocrinated throughout the whole quest series.

No he wasn't.

[Someone With Mass]

After several talks with Legion and doing his loyalty mission, Overlord becomes even more pointless and dumb than it already was.

[CroGamer002]

leonia42 wrote...

And to be fair, potentially wiping out the Heretics at Heretic Station sort of makes the Overlord project moot.

But if Admiral Xen from the Migrant Fleet had got her hands on it.. oh boy.

Oh I'm sure Cerberus would love to take over True Geth for selective human domination.

[Leonia]

Someone With Mass wrote...

I don't think keep throwing people at a problem until it's solved is such a good idea, because eventually, you're going to run out of people. Not to mention that it's a huge waste of talent to throw engineers, scientists and doctors at something like indoctrination when they can help studying the effects of indoctrination without sacrificing themselves. And they probably could've helped with future projects too.

But even studying the effects of indoctrination is dangerous, Cerberus has just had to learn that the hard way. I don't think they ever intended to lose personnel as quickly as they did, nobody knew how challenging indoctrination study was going to be. They were the pioneers of the project and it's unfortunate. We don't know how to study indoctrination safely yet but we really should try because that is one heck of a lethal weapon for the Reapers to use. Vigil has warned us about indoctrinated invidviduals bringing down whole civilisation from the inside.

[Dave of Canada]

Mesina2 wrote...

And even if you let Cerberus keep him, it is still the same person with weak mind.

Who controls the Geth.

In previous cycles all planets were isolated.

You know, plan that Reapers tried in ME1 and very possibly again in ME2 to invade galaxy?

And what's different about ME3? Nobody's prepared for the Reapers except small groups, Earth gets decimated and we've got people warring among each other instead of fighting the Reapers.

How is killing politicians and the pope helpful against the Reapers?

Also I'm pretty sure Miranda said there is political and military cell.

There's three cells spread into different projects, a dozen projects running at a time. Lazarus cell is one and it consists of the entire Lazarus staff that died bringing Shepard back and the entire Normandy crew.

There's possibly a few infiltrators in the political / military game, though they most likely aren't tied to a cell directly as each operative doesn't know the whereabouts of other cells and those people undercover probably know nothing to keep Cerberus safe should they be captured.

[Dave of Canada]

Funnily enough, it wasn't indoctrination that screwed up their research with Grayson. It only screwed up when Anderson and the Turians intervened and helped Grayson escape.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 15 juillet 2011 - 02:33 .

[Dragoonlordz]

Why couldn't Shepherd give the information to aquire it to the Alliance...

[Leonia]

Mesina2 wrote...

leonia42 wrote...

And to be fair, potentially wiping out the Heretics at Heretic Station sort of makes the Overlord project moot.

But if Admiral Xen from the Migrant Fleet had got her hands on it.. oh boy.

Oh I'm sure Cerberus would love to take over True Geth for selective human domination.

What? They just wanted to eliminate the geth as a threat, just as the quarians want to do. Only they want to do it by controlling them instead of destroying them all. Which is what Admiral Xen (a quarian) wants to do. Who said anything about making the geth servants of humanity?

[Leonia]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Funnily enough, it wasn't indoctrination that screwed up their research with Grayson. It only screwed up when Anderson and the Turians intervened and helped Grayson escape.

Well given the state that Grayson was in, it probably would have been an ultimate failure regardless. He still would have gone out of control eventually and wiped out that Cerberus team without Anderson's help. And I don't agree with how they went about forcing him to use the red sand again but Cerberus has never been very subtle with science. They want results and they want them now, by any means necessary.

[slimgrin]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Cerberus is obviously acting against the best interests of the galactic community. The correct course of action would be aiding the Reapers. Is submission not preferable to extinction?

If they recycle this theme from ME1 I will be seriously disappoint.

Modifié par slimgrin, 15 juillet 2011 - 02:42 .

[Dave of Canada]

Mesina2 wrote...

Oh I'm sure Cerberus would love to take over True Geth for selective human domination.

Ignoring a lot of arguments I could use, they wouldn't be able to use the Geth as troopers for their agenda. They'd have to possibly hand over the tech to the Alliance for it to see any use, seeing hundreds of Geth swarm into the battlefield to save human lives isn't really something that Cerberus has much use for considering their line of research and how they aren't going into any battlefields.