1939 réponses à ce sujet

[JamieCOTC]

GodWood wrote...

XyleJKH wrote...
Bravo. Couldn't have said it better myself. I mean almost all reaper technology is an abomination. The exception being the relays and the citadel. Just as legion said.

"Shepard-Commander, this facility is data. It has no inherent ethical value. Destroying it will not return those lost. Keeping it may save others."

- Legion

And I would agree w/ Legion if Shepard and only Shepard could keep the base.  But Shepard doesn't keep the base. S/he gives it to Daffy Duck. 

[Dave of Canada]

nhsk wrote...

And if they did attack a city on Earth wouldn't you call them terrorists?

Depends, why are they attacking the city? To reclaim something? Because it's funny? To spread fear and dissent through the Alliance? Changing the location doesn't change the nature of the crime.

[TheObsoleteModel]

In the moment I had to choose I felt losing the base sets us no further back than we were before we knew of its existence. I had confidence we would stop the Reapers from the moment Sovereign threatened our doom. We defeated Sovereign and if I can help to create a galactic unity we will fight off the entire Reaper armada.

For me keeping a base that’s main purpose is only to create more monsters, giving it over to a man I don’t trust, and possibly losing my alien alliances and the trust I have been trying to build with them seemed to outweigh the potential technological gains we may have gained.

I know we use other Reaper technology but we didn’t know who built the relays and citadel until recently. I had no choice in keeping those; maybe if I did I would have left the citadel and encouraged a new central governing city. But the collector base is Reaper technology I did have a choice in and I choose to unite our galaxy against a common enemy, possible angering one ally over many.

I hear everyone’s logic here. And I do agree on points made and if I would have had the time maybe I could have made columns to check off. Add up the pros and cons. In the end I went with my heart and it told me nothing on this base is going to help us more than the collective force of our united galaxy.

No one can see the future. In the end we can only do what we think is best. For better or for worse my intentions were pure. Only time will tell if my choice was the right one.

[BatmanPWNS]

People calm down it's just a game and if it was real I doubt us, of all people, would be chosen to lead a real suicide mission and decide the fate of huge base.

Modifié par BatmanPWNS, 15 juillet 2011 - 10:09 .

[Someone With Mass]

And then there are people trying to justify torture, kidnapping and very illegal experiments, just because it's for the greater good in some weird way.

So keep the hypocrisy.

[The Elder King]

Someone With Mass wrote...

And then there are people trying to justify torture, kidnapping and very illegal experiments, just because it's for the greater good in some weird way.

So keep the hypocrisy.

By your logic you should hate both Salarians and Turians goverments, for what they did to the Krogans.

[Someone With Mass]

hhh89 wrote...
By your logic you should hate both Salarians and Turians goverments, for what they did to the Krogans.

The krogans did that to themselves by ignoring the warnings and by almost replacing the rachni they were brought in to fight.

There's a vast difference. 

Also, Cerberus is so goddamn bland and washed out at this point. I'd rather see anything else from the Mass Effect universe. The Reapers are almost a breath of fresh air compared to those delusional degenerates I can't possibly give less of a **** about if they have the fate of humanity in their hands or not.

Almost alll the books, all the comics, almost all the DLCs. Cerberus, Cerberus, Cerberus, Cerberus.

FFS. Be creative, BioWare.

[Pulletlamer]

laecraft wrote...

I am so amused reading this thread. People are fighting do damn hard to keep that "terrorists" label on Cerberus, because without it, their "strong," good-sounding argument of "I don't work with terrorists!" is reduced to weak mumblings of "well, they're still evil," "they're very bad guys," "I just don't trust them, no matter what they did before - they MIGHT turn on me!"

Hilarious. And sad. Are you so used to relying on labels to determine for you what's right and what's wrong?

Also, there was one post that actually scared me, where someone said that if their government said that something is so, then it's true.

It's frightening to see how brainwashed people are. I think I'm just going to stay away from all of this.

There's plenty of arguments,along the thread that I, and obiously a lot of oher people have given. So before claiming anything, do some research.

Your nullifying any argument people gave just because they have a different opinion than yours.

The only brainwashed here would be you, since you can't accept that there's people with different opinions and valid points. All things that aren't your opinion are "sad and hilarious".

Modifié par Pulletlamer, 15 juillet 2011 - 10:33 .

[The Elder King]

Someone With Mass wrote...

hhh89 wrote...
By your logic you should hate both Salarians and Turians goverments, for what they did to the Krogans.

The krogans did that to themselves by ignoring the warnings and by almost replacing the rachni they were brought in to fight.

There's a vast difference. 

Also, Cerberus is so goddamn bland and washed out at this point. I'd rather see anything else from the Mass Effect universe. The Reapers are almost a breath of fresh air compared to those delusional degenerates I can't possibly give less of a **** about if they have the fate of humanity in their hands or not.

Almost alll the books, all the comics, almost all the DLCs. Cerberus, Cerberus, Cerberus, Cerberus.

FFS. Be creative, BioWare.

On that, I agree.
About the krogans, the fact that they became the enemy didn't  justify the use of weapon that lead a race to extintion. Why not using weapons of mass destruction then?

[Someone With Mass]

hhh89 wrote...

On that, I agree.
About the krogans, the fact that they became the enemy didn't  justify the use of weapon that lead a race to extintion. Why not using weapons of mass destruction then?

How should I know?

[The Elder King]

Someone With Mass wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

On that, I agree.
About the krogans, the fact that they became the enemy didn't  justify the use of weapon that lead a race to extintion. Why not using weapons of mass destruction then?

How should I know?

Because it's wrong. As the genophage was a wrong choice to end the Krogan rebellion. Maybe the Krogan had their faults, but we should remember that they weren't ready for have that power. The Salarian used the Krogan for their interest, giving them too much power and technology when they weren't ready to manage it.

[ME-ParaShep]

hhh89 wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

And then there are people trying to justify torture, kidnapping and very illegal experiments, just because it's for the greater good in some weird way.

So keep the hypocrisy.

By your logic you should hate both Salarians and Turians goverments, for what they did to the Krogans.

That analogy is different from what Cerberus has been doing. Cerberus has been torturing, kidnapping, and experimenting on (mostly) innocent people through covert action; i.e. terrorist actions

Majority of the Krogan in the Krogan Rebellions were doing wrongful things throughout the galaxy E.G. taking over other species planets.

The Turians and STG were doing many justly things for the greater good of the galaxy (even though it may be amoral to some)

Cerberus has been doing many wrongful things for the greater good of the galaxy. (Amoral to all)

[DaringMoosejaw]

If it was a choice between handing the base over to Cerberus or, say, the Alliance or the Council, I may have preserved it. But Cerberus? Really? The Illusive Man EXUDES skeeziness and overzealous self-righteousness, I've seen enough works of fiction to know that giving that much power to someone like that turns out bad, 10 times out of 10.

[punchbag]

 Not sure if this was shared already but here it is:
"Cerberus Knows More about INDOCTRINATION Than You Do
Maybe you preserved the Reaper facility, but if you blew it sky high and thought that the Reaper's secrets were lost to the Illusive Man forever... Well, think again. Whether you chose the Renegade or Paragon option in the final mission of Mass Effect 2, the Illusive Man recovers information about the experiments the Reapers performed on the colonists and he has an epiphany that could rival Anakin's thought process when he tries to strangle Padme in Episode III: "I just spent trillions of credits bringing Shepard back to life and assembling a team to stop the Collectors from abducting more human colonists for Reaper experiments. Now that she has done the impossible, I think I will just continue those experiments." (Yeah, Illusive Man, no way you are indoctrinated. This all makes perfect, logical sense. I'm sorry for doubting you. I'll go back and make that Renegade choice now.) For the greater good of the human race, of course... Oh, and revenge.
In the novel, Mass Effect: Ascension, we are introduced to Cerberus operative Paul Grayson. The Illusive Man entrusts Grayson with one of his investments, a girl with enormous biotic potential, named Gillian. Eventually, though, he turns his back on the Illusive Man to keep his daughter and Kahlee Sanders safe.
The Illusive Man does not just get even with those who cross him. No, he is more of a "I am going to conduct experiments on you with alien technology, turn you into an abomination, take notes on it, and then kill you" kind of guy. While implanting Grayson with Reaper technology, the Illusive Man calmly explains that these "nanides" will eventually spread through Grayson's entire body, turning him into an "organic host" for the Reapers. He's like a Bond villain, except he actually carries out his evil plan while explaining it.
Through Grayson, we see the brutal process of indoctrination. In the beginning, Grayson still has control of his body while the Reapers "sleep." But even in the early stages of indoctrination, the Reapers have latched onto his thoughts, making him believe they are his own. Grayson contemplates ending his life, but after "losing a vessel once before" to suicide (Saren), they are able to manipulate him into thinking he has decided that would be cowardly. Grayson also physically changes, beginning to look more machine than man.
The Reapers eventually gain complete control of Grayson's body, using him to gather information about the Alliance school for biotic children. Cerberus acquired data on this final stage of indoctrination, as well, through a man called Kai Leng."
source:http://www.newsarama.com/games/10-must-know-facts-mass-effect-novels-comics-mass-effect-3-110707-1.html(number 8)

[The Elder King]

ME-ParaShep wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

And then there are people trying to justify torture, kidnapping and very illegal experiments, just because it's for the greater good in some weird way.

So keep the hypocrisy.

By your logic you should hate both Salarians and Turians goverments, for what they did to the Krogans.

That analogy is different from what Cerberus has been doing. Cerberus has been torturing, kidnapping, and experimenting on (mostly) innocent people through covert action; i.e. terrorist actions

Majority of the Krogan in the Krogan Rebellions were doing wrongful things throughout the galaxy E.G. taking over other species planets.

The Turians and STG were doing many justly things for the greater good of the galaxy (even though it may be amoral to some)

Cerberus has been doing many wrongful things for the greater good of the galaxy. (Amoral to all)

Salarians rised the Krogans giving them technology that they can't manage, because they wanted soldiers (that were and are, infact, "super-soldier") to use against the Rachni. Then, the Krogan wanted more power, planets, because they weren't ready for the technology they recieved. Then the Salarians created a virus that could bring Krogans to extintion, and Turian used it. And then, after they discovered that the Krogan were becoming immune to the genophage, they modified it. Maybe the Turans aren't on the same level of the Salarians, but in my opinion the Salarian used the Krogans as merely tools, and even after the Krogan Rebellion they continued on this path.
I'm not saying that the Salarians are on the same level of Cerberus. I don't care. And in truth I don't like Cerberus, because I think that while their reasons could be good, a good amount of their experiments and missions went too far. What I'm trying to say that they aren't the only one who made terrible things.

[PrinceLionheart]

hhh89 wrote...

Salarians rised the Krogans giving them technology that they can't manage, because they wanted soldiers (that were and are, infact, "super-soldier") to use against the Rachni. Then, the Krogan wanted more power, planets, because they weren't ready for the technology they recieved. Then the Salarians created a virus that could bring Krogans to extintion, and Turian used it. And then, after they discovered that the Krogan were becoming immune to the genophage, they modified it. Maybe the Turans aren't on the same level of the Salarians, but in my opinion the Salarian used the Krogans as merely tools, and even after the Krogan Rebellion they continued on this path.
I'm not saying that the Salarians are on the same level of Cerberus. I don't care. And in truth I don't like Cerberus, because I think that while their reasons could be good, a good amount of their experiments and missions went too far. What I'm trying to say that they aren't the only one who made terrible things.

Actually, the Salarians didn't bring the Krogan's to extinction. They just reduced their birth rate. The state of Tuchunka was self-inflicted. I'll admit, it certainly sucks what happen to them, but the Genophage was really a necessary evil because it was either reduce their birthrates or nuke them outright.

With that said, your opinion on Cerberus is the same as mine. I think Miranda and Jacob both praised Cerberus over the idea that they don't have to jump through political hoops to get the job done, but at the same time that's the very flaw of the organization.

[nhsk]

The infliction of the Genophage wasn't decided by one man, but by many minds because it was the best option at the time and frankly I like that much better than 1 man pulling the strings. I doubt the Salarians developed the genophage without first considering every other option and the Turians didn't release it without explicit approval of the Council who contrary to the games seems to be rather intelligent in the books. (or so I've heard, haven't actually read the books but only synopsies and overall story)

But yes still, the Krogans were wronged and in ME3 I will do all I can to fix that.

[The Elder King]

PrinceLionheart wrote...


Actually, the Salarians didn't bring the Krogan's to extinction. They just reduced their birth rate. The state of Tuchunka was self-inflicted. I'll admit, it certainly sucks what happen to them, but the Genophage was really a necessary evil because it was either reduce their birthrates or nuke them outright.

I know that Tuchanka's state was something that the Krogans did during their nuclear wars. When I talked about "extintion" I meant that their numbers is slowing down. I know that the genophage should have reduced their fertility to bring their birth rate at the same level of other species, but due the fact that the Krogans like to fight, there aren't many Krogans on Tuchanka that try to increase their numbers (until Wrex became the Urdnot leader).
Though the Salarian are responsible of the Krogan's rebellion because they had given them a too great technology for them, only to use the Krogan in the war. They saw the Krogans as tools.

[Dave of Canada]

Someone With Mass wrote...

And then there are people trying to justify torture, kidnapping and very illegal experiments, just because it's for the greater good in some weird way.

Dismissing it because you don't see the greater good doesn't mean there isn't a greater good that's trying to be achieved, it's only "hypocricy" because you dismiss the situation presented to you.

You can agree or disagree with their methods, you just can't argue the end result they are trying to achieve.

ME-ParaShep wrote...

That analogy is different from what Cerberus has been doing. Cerberus has been torturing, kidnapping, and experimenting on (mostly) innocent people through covert action; i.e. terrorist actions

How is this terrorism? Honestly?

Just because something is illegal doesn't mean it's terrorism.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 16 juillet 2011 - 12:36 .

[ObserverStatus]

Seriously, is anyone else getting sick of these "boohoo, Bioware is treating players of my alignment unfairly" posts?

Modifié par bobobo878, 16 juillet 2011 - 01:12 .

[Dave of Canada]

bobobo878 wrote...


Seriously, is anyone else getting sick of these "boohoo, Bioware is treating players of my alignment unfairly" threads?

Have you even bothered to read the thread instead of acting like an ass?

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 16 juillet 2011 - 12:48 .

[Someone With Mass]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Dismissing it because you don't see the greater good doesn't mean there isn't a greater good that's trying to be achieved, it's only "hypocricy" because you dismiss the situation presented to you.

You can agree or disagree with their methods, you just can't argue the end result they are trying to achieve.

Trying to achieve, yes.

The really sad thing is that Shepard is accomplishing more than they can on his own.

And if they're trying to find a way to combat the Reapers, they're doing it wrong.

Because I doubt a 2 kilometer long dreadnought will give a damn about some puny biotic on the ground it can kill if it takes a misstep.

[ObserverStatus]

Dave of Canada wrote...
Have you even bothered to read the thread instead of acting like an ass?

Eyup, otherwise I wouldn't know what I was talking about. It may or may not have been the OP's intention, but his thread has more than it's fair share of paragon/renegade bickering.

Modifié par bobobo878, 16 juillet 2011 - 12:57 .