1939 réponses à ce sujet

[Iakus]

Nizzemancer wrote...

It's a little lesson I learned from Aliens...

Ripley: Just tell me one thing, Burke. You're going out there to destroy them,
right? Not to study. Not to bring back. But to wipe them out.
Burke: That's the plan. You have my word on it.
Ripley: All right, I'm in.

And we all saw how that played out...Secondly:

Burke: Look, this is an emotional moment for all of us, okay? I know that. But,
let's not make snap judgments, please. This is clearly-clearly an
important species we're dealing with and I don't think that you or I, or
anybody, has the right to arbitrarily exterminate them.
Ripley: Wrong!
Vasquez: Yeah. Watch us.

Huh, funny when I was talking to the Council and got the "Ah, yes, 'Reapers'" line I found myself thinking 

"Did IQs just drop sharply while I was away?"

I guess the Collector Base had a significant dollar value attached to it.  And Shepard can't make snap judgements like that, he's just a grunt (no offense)  But then again, nuking the site from orbit is the only way to be sure.

[In Exile]

[quote]Dave of Canada wrote...
Anything that's different from the Default so there's a difference between somebody who played ME1 and those who didn't.[/quote]

But the ME1 default was the pure Renegade playthrough; didn't Bioware even come out and said they picked that as the cannon because of how rare it was via their metrics?

[quote]Rachni: Since the project's files were released to the public as an incident with cloned Rachni (as they don't have to hide the fact that the Rachni Queen escaped), people are well aware of Shepard killing the Rachni Queen.

Possibly encountering a scientist on Illium in the same place that the Rachni Asari lady is, mentioning your decision to kill the Rachni Queen and allowing Shepard to comment on the decision. Similar to those who've spared the Rachni Queen capable of threatening her, being nice and asking how she is or the neutral option. [/quote]

I don't understand, are you saying the issue is that there wasn't an appropriate cameo for it?

[quote]If trying to imply some consequences for both sides:
Potentially have a Krogan who mentions that he fought in the Rachni Wars and he's glad he won't have to see another one, on the other hand he's furious if you spared the Rachni Queen after finding out from Wrex (if alive) or Wreav (somehow knowing it, maybe by a captured Salarian STG who knows about the Queen).[/quote]

Right, I get it. You're talking about content for the player in-game.

Yeah, ME2 gives a renegade playthrough the shaft. We'll see if ME3 does better.

[quote]In the current implementation, nobody mentions your decision. Wiping out the last of the Rachni shouldn't be something that people ignore, especially if the information is made public considering the Rachni Wars are still fresh in the minds of many aliens.[/quote]

I missed this in ME2 - when was the information ever made public? Was this in the codex?

[quote]Feros: No matter how you've handled the Colonists (Renegade or not), if you've charmed / intimidated the Exogeni guy there's going to be a colonist who shows up. The nameless colonist, somehow alive despite having killed all of Zhu's Hope, talks about the state of the colony.[/quote]

But you convince the Exogeni guy to rebuild and support Zhu's Hope. Just because you kill the current batch doesn't mean more wouldn't be there.

[quote]Which is fine, though one must wonder: Why is there still colonists? Didn't I kill them all? Why should the intimidate option overwrite the decision to kill them?[/quote]

The intimidate option was to support the colony. 

[quote]If they had tried to recreate a non-Shiala cameo that would've made sense without any colonists, they could've kept the people who are unkillable at that point in the game. [/quote]

Doesn't Juliana come back to comment if Shiala's dead? I never didn't save the colony - all my playthroughs in ME1 were humanity first, paragon or renegade.

[quote]As it stands now, the Shiala cameo has 4-6 variations (including covering the everybody-dead cameo) while the colonist one only has two (where if you kill everybody and don't intimidate/charm Jeong, nobody shows up).[/quote]

Like I said - the lack of content is just bad design. No excuse for Bioware. But I thought we were talking about actual in-game difference between the renegade world-state and the paragon world-state.

[quote]I mostly approve of the consequences of the Council decisions, though I would've further explored the Renegade aspect of things. Having the all-human or new alien Council show up would've been nice, maybe exploring further the plot about them being stuck in a cold war arms race.[/quote]

You had the news reels. I thought it worked without drawing too much attention away. And my first playthrough was a dead Council, so the tough Citadel gun laws made the human Council seem fascist.

[quote]Maybe demonstrate that the all-human Council is more trusting of Shepard's warnings of the Reapers, too. Having them not believe the Reapers and saying that they don't trust Shepard because he'll place human interests above everybody else is... confusing.[/quote]

I think it makes sense for politicians on both sides to disbelieve the reapers. It made no sense when anyone beside Anderson started to listen to you at the end of ME1. 

[quote]Small side quest cameos: Killing people isn't forgotten by family members, friends / rivals of the deceased and such. Cameos could exist if you killed people, similar to how killing Juhani in KOTOR resulted in her lover appearing on Korriban much later.[/quote]

I agree with you on the content portion, because design-wise it was done badly. I was just looking at it in terms of the story consequences. Although it can get contrived. 

[Dave of Canada]

In Exile wrote...

But the ME1 default was the pure Renegade playthrough; didn't Bioware even come out and said they picked that as the cannon because of how rare it was via their metrics?

True, though they could've made some things different for those who've played it. Having the game be almost identical to those who haven't played makes the player question what was the purpose of making the Renegade import save.

Right, I get it. You're talking about content for the player in-game.

Correct.

I missed this in ME2 - when was the information ever made public? Was this in the codex?

IIRC, news report.

But you convince the Exogeni guy to rebuild and support Zhu's Hope. Just because you kill the current batch doesn't mean more wouldn't be there.

Unnamed colonist talks about the Thorian and how the others are sick because of it's effects, I doubt the newer batches would suffer the same effects.

The intimidate option was to support the colony.

Yeah, though I killed the colonists who are apparently sick and they've somehow survived because of the intimidate option.

Doesn't Juliana come back to comment if Shiala's dead? I never didn't save the colony - all my playthroughs in ME1 were humanity first, paragon or renegade.

You get a nameless colonist, I think her ingame name is simply "Colonist".

If you saved the colony and spared Shiala, you get the Shiala cameo.
If you destroyed the colony (without charm/intimidation) and spared Shiala, you get Commando Shiala cameo.
If you saved the colony and killed Shiala, you get the nameless colonist cameo.
If you destroyed the colony (without charm/intimidation) and killed Shiala, you get no cameo.
If you intimidated/charmed Jeong, you get the happy Shiala / nameless Colonist cameo regardless of the colony's state.

You had the news reels. I thought it worked without drawing too much attention away. And my first playthrough was a dead Council, so the tough Citadel gun laws made the human Council seem fascist.

Though the same laws apply with the old Council, you can even call it out to AVINA. Hell, it's completely odd how there's still anti-human riots if you've spared the Council.

I think it makes sense for politicians on both sides to disbelieve the reapers. It made no sense when anyone beside Anderson started to listen to you at the end of ME1.

Yeah, though I'd like to see a different reaction to the Reaper situation from a different council. Rather than them acting exactly like the old Council. Though that might be Bioware's way of saying all politcians are the same.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 16 juillet 2011 - 06:18 .

[Dave of Canada]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Edit: I have tried diligently to get the "Commando Shiala" cameo and never gotten it. She still turns up representing the colonists anyway.

I got it once, I killed all the colonists and Jeong in that one though.

[Praetor Knight]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

Edit: I have tried diligently to get the "Commando Shiala" cameo and never gotten it. She still turns up representing the colonists anyway.

I got it once, I killed all the colonists and Jeong in that one though.

 So is Shiala different? I've got at least one run like that with no difference.

[Clover Rider]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

Edit: I have tried diligently to get the "Commando Shiala" cameo and never gotten it. She still turns up representing the colonists anyway.

I got it once, I killed all the colonists and Jeong in that one though.

What is she like as "Commando Shiala" since I have never gotten it too?

[In Exile]

Dave of Canada wrote...
True, though they could've made some things different for those who've played it. Having the game be almost identical to those who haven't played makes the player question what was the purpose of making the Renegade import save.

I hope that ME3 will have logical consequences. I don't mind a particualr playstyle getting favoured (I stand by choices I made that were clearly the best at the time, like focusing on Sovereign) 

IIRC, news report.

That's just Bioware flopping the implementation, then. Though now I'm started to think ME2 was legitimately rushed, at least when you read some public post-mortem comments by Bioware.

Unnamed colonist talks about the Thorian and how the others are sick because of it's effects, I doubt the newer batches would suffer the same effects.

Ah, zombie colonists. Well, that makes perfect sense. 

Yeah, though I killed the colonists who are apparently sick and they've somehow survived because of the intimidate option.

Intimidated right back from the dead? Well, it was Shepard doing the intimidating.

If you saved the colony and spared Shiala, you get the Shiala cameo.
If you destroyed the colony (without charm/intimidation) and spared Shiala, you get Commando Shiala cameo.
If you saved the colony and killed Shiala, you get the nameless colonist cameo.
If you destroyed the colony (without charm/intimidation) and killed Shiala, you get no cameo.
If you intimidated/charmed Jeong, you get the happy Shiala / nameless Colonist cameo regardless of the colony's state.

So the only problem is the flag for the intimidate/charm? Maybe the flag is b0rked?

Though the same laws apply with the old Council, you can even call it out to AVINA. Hell, it's completely odd how there's still anti-human riots if you've spared the Council.

That was very confusing for me. At least the weapons shop guy is excited to met Shepard versus being rude and anti-human.

Yeah, though I'd like to see a different reaction to the Reaper situation from a different council. Rather than them acting exactly like the old Council. Though that might be Bioware's way of saying all politcians are the same.

Although it made no sense for them to actually believe in the reapers at the end of ME1, I would have liked the ME2 Council to be consistent in their incoherence. 

[Dave of Canada]

Praetor Shepard wrote...

 So is Shiala different? I've got at least one run like that with no difference.

Odd, must be something else going on then that I don't remember. She's basically the same except she's wearing Commando armor and mentions how she's trying to help people but doesn't know how, she leaves without any flirting / kiss.

[Seboist]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Hmm. Come to think of it, I might have saved the shop-keeper. I wonder if that's why.

The Salarian?

[Praetor Knight]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Praetor Shepard wrote...

 So is Shiala different? I've got at least one run like that with no difference.

Odd, must be something else going on then that I don't remember. She's basically the same except she's wearing Commando armor and mentions how she's trying to help people but doesn't know how, she leaves without any flirting / kiss.

I wonder if doing the other side missions have any impact on Feros.

[Dave of Canada]

Saphra Deden wrote...

@Dave of Canada

So if Shiala turns up as a commando you don't get the quest for Baria Frontiers, right?

Booted up my 360 to look, it's completed but I can't tell if it's because she gave it to me and I did it or if talking with her counted as the entire quest. There's nothing in the objectives.

[Dave of Canada]

Praetor Shepard wrote...

I wonder if doing the other side missions have any impact on Feros.

Oh yeah, I didn't do the side missions either.
Edit: Could be it.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 16 juillet 2011 - 06:48 .

[Seboist]

Anyone have pics of commando Shiala in ME2? I can't find anything on google image search.

[Mr. Gogeta34]

It'd be awesome if Bioware could clear the air on this issue a bit... or atleast if they notice the trend they've been following concerning these decisions...

[Someone With Mass]

laecraft wrote...

Weren't you the person who said that you'll believe everything an alien government tells you? Didn't you say that if the Council tells you that a human group are terrorists, then you'd take their word for it?

Some people on this thread are more alien to me than aliens. I can never comprehend them and their reasons for destroying the base.

No, I said that I'd rather take their and the Alliance's words for it than Cerberus', because at least the Council and the Alliance have some credibility.

Cerberus is lying through its ass every chance it gets.

[Someone With Mass]

Seboist wrote...

Paragon path gets to save the council and destroy sovereign with minimal losses. There's no sign humans end up militarily weaker, nor does the Alliance brass or the people back home care that human lives were sacrificed to save alien bureaucrats. Aliens are fully cooperative with humanity and the player gets to see the council.

So uhhh what exactly was the point of the renegade decision besides just killing the council?

That's funny, because I hear constant reports about the Alliance still recovering from their loses at the battle of the Citadel when I decide to save the Council, and that the Alliance is stretching their resources thin to try and keep everything in order.

[Phaedon]

I don't get the point of the thread?

I think that it's a minority who didn't give Cerberus the base because they'd get indoctrinated.

TIM believes that there is something that could cause harm against the Reapers in the base and he blatantly admits of wanting to use it against aliens as well. 'against the Reapers and beyond'

TIM himself never dismissed, when asked that he was entertaining the thought of creating a Reaper.

I don't think that some husks is what Paragons were afraid of. It was giving a WMD to Cerberus.

Have we seen a WMD so far? No.
Will we see a WMD later on? Maybe.
Will it make winning as renegade impossible? No.
Does it matter if that WMD appears? No. The point is to support or not Cerberus, and to show if you trust them with the base or not. Now that will definitely be in ME3.

Saphra Deden wrote...

This thread just goes to show you that Paragon players have a pathological need to kiss Bioware's butt.

I am sorry, honey, I only see one ass here, and I don't feel like kissing it.

[Phaedon]

laecraft wrote...

Weren't you the person who said that you'll believe everything an alien government tells you? Didn't you say that if the Council tells you that a human group are terrorists, then you'd take their word for it?

Some people on this thread are more alien to me than aliens. I can never comprehend them and their reasons for destroying the base.

If you really believe that, then you have zero comprehension of how legal definitions and legal systems work in the first place.

United States Law Code – the law that governs the entire country – contains a definition of terrorism embedded in its requirement that Annual Country reports on Terrorism be submitted by the Secretary of State to Congress every year. (From U.S. Code Title 22, Ch.38, Para. 2656f(d)

(d) Definitions
As used in this section—
(1) the term “international terrorism” means terrorism involving citizens or the territory of more than 1 country;
(2) the term “terrorism” means premeditated, politically motivated violence perpetrated against noncombatant targets by subnational groups or clandestine agents;
(3) the term “terrorist group” means any group, or which has significant subgroups which practice, international terrorism;
(4) the terms “territory” and “territory of the country” mean the land, waters, and airspace of the country; and
(5) the terms “terrorist sanctuary” and “sanctuary” mean an area in the territory of the country—
(A) that is used by a terrorist or terrorist organization—
(i) to carry out terrorist activities, including training, fundraising, financing, and recruitment; or
(ii) as a transit point; and
( the government of which expressly consents to, or with knowledge, allows, tolerates, or disregards such use of its territory and is not subject to a determination under—
(i) section 2405(j)(1)(A) of the Appendix to title 50;
(ii) section 2371 (a) of this title; or
(iii) section 2780 (d) of this title.

If Cerberus isn't politically and ideologically motivated, then I don't know who is. 

PS: Their actions are slightly illegal as well.

Modifié par Phaedon, 16 juillet 2011 - 10:12 .

[Phaedon]

Luc0s wrote...

I don't see how the Collector Base can help against the Reapers anyway. The only possible useful information you might get out of the base is the schematics for building a reaper, which might give away some of their weak spots. But if you pay close attention, you see that Joker hands over the schematics of a reaper on a datapad to Shepard anyway regardless of what you did to the base.

But really, why do you base-keepers thing that keeping the Collector base will turn up anything more than we already have? It's not as if the strategy of the reapers is stored on that base or something. I mean think about it, in WW2, did the Germans store valuable information in their execution camps? Of course not! If I wanted intel on the new technology of the Germans in WW2, an execution camp would be the last place where I would look for such intel.
Why do you think the Collector base is any different?

They don't.

The original argument was: 'It's worth the risk.'

And right when Cerberus is confirmed to be trying to kill you, the same posters who used that argument, rage.

Do you see now how arguments on BSN work?