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I'll Be the First to Complain: What was the point in destroying the Collector Base?


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#801
marshalleck

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ThePwener wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

If my Shepard could hand over access to the Alliance instead of TIM, he probably would.


You know the funny thing? even knowing ME3's twist, I would still hand over the Base to Cerberus. The Alliance is too flawed, the Council is too stupid and Cerberus were the only ones that believed me, gave me a ship and even bothered to look for Shepard's body.


I neglected to mention that I believe there's still some cross-talk between the highest levels of Alliance leadership and TIM. Although I am just not sure how much TIM shares with the Alliance. I think giving the base to the Alliance would mean TIM still gets toys to play with for his adventures in black ops, but I think he'd reserve quite a bit more for Cerberus only if given exclusive access to the base.

I'm okay with either option, but I'd prefer to hand the base over to Alliance. TIM and Cerberus have their uses, but I am not sure that securing the base and maintaining that security is one of them. 

Modifié par marshalleck, 16 juillet 2011 - 08:11 .


#802
Phaedon

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Dave of Canada wrote...

Phaedon wrote...

Not a fact.


Tell that to the Batarians and Quarians.

The Batarians were whining about the Council assigning territory that the Batarians wanted into the human sphere of influence, it could be the exact opposite situation, unless the humans would deal with it, eventually. The Batarian government has to be powerful to their people because they are totalitarian. They couldn't accept that ruling.

As for the Quarians see my previous posts. What the quarians did was illegal, but the Council went too far. Maybe they wanted to ensure that no one would try that again, but they were too butthurt.

Modifié par Phaedon, 16 juillet 2011 - 08:11 .


#803
Phaedon

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marshalleck wrote...

Advanced magic is unquestionably indistinguishable from magic. No argument there.

^_^

FFFFU-

#804
ThePwener

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Dave of Canada wrote...

Phaedon wrote...

And that the prohuman organization won't get the chance to dominate aliens.


How will 150 people who are not legally allowed to do much "dominate" aliens who'll be studying the very same tech?


Because those so called "150 people" will be studying intact remains while the rest of the galaxy only gets the left over scraps (blown up Reaper carcasses).

Cerberus was studying a derelict Reaper and it doesn't seem they got any useful tch out of it. It seems that what we could get from Reaper ships was squished from Sovereign. All the more reason to keep the base.

#805
CroGamer002

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Phaedon wrote...

marshalleck wrote...
The UN and the Council aren't really very similar. Mainly because decisions the Council take actually have teeth.

That's only because they are the galactic police as well.



I have to disagree, Council is nothing like UN.

Council isn't completely useless.

#806
marshalleck

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Phaedon wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

Advanced magic is unquestionably indistinguishable from magic. No argument there.

^_^

FFFFU-

:P

#807
Dave of Canada

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ThePwener wrote...

Because those so called "150 people" will be studying intact remains while the rest of the galaxy only gets the left over scraps (blown up Reaper carcasses).

Cerberus was studying a derelict Reaper and it doesn't seem they got any useful tch out of it. It seems that what we could get from Reaper ships was squished from Sovereign. All the more reason to keep the base.


Cerberus wasn't researching the derelict Reaper, they were getting it's IFF.
We got a ton of new tech from little bits and pieces of Sovereign with no idea what served what purpose, a full Reaper will obviously provide more.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 16 juillet 2011 - 08:16 .


#808
lietk12

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Dave of Canada wrote...

How will 150 people who are not legally allowed to do much "dominate" aliens who'll be studying the very same tech?

Illegally.

#809
Seboist

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marshalleck wrote...

ThePwener wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

If my Shepard could hand over access to the Alliance instead of TIM, he probably would.


You know the funny thing? even knowing ME3's twist, I would still hand over the Base to Cerberus. The Alliance is too flawed, the Council is too stupid and Cerberus were the only ones that believed me, gave me a ship and even bothered to look for Shepard's body.


I neglected to mention that I believe there's still some cross-talk between the highest levels of Alliance leadership and TIM. Although I am just not sure how much TIM shares with the Alliance. I think giving the base to the Alliance would mean TIM still gets toys to play with for his adventures in black ops, but I think he'd reserve quite a bit more for Cerberus only if given exclusive access to the base.

I'm okay with either option, but I'd prefer to hand the base over to Alliance. TIM and Cerberus have their uses, but I am not sure that securing the base and maintaining that security is one of them. 


It's too politically infeasable for the Alliance to deal with the CB due to the whole situation between citadel space and the terminus. It's better for an outlawed "terrorist" organization that many don't know much about to deal with it than risk any political blowback like slavers/mercs attacking Alliance colonies over intrusion into their turf.

#810
ThePwener

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Dave of Canada wrote...

Cerberus wasn't researching the derelict Reaper, they were getting it's IFF.
We got a ton of new tech from little bits and pieces of Sovereign with no idea what served what purpose, a full Reaper will obviously provide more.


1) The team wasn't there exclusively looking for an IFF

2) That's not 100% accurate. We may... or may not get more tech from an intact Reaper.

#811
marshalleck

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Seboist wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

ThePwener wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

If my Shepard could hand over access to the Alliance instead of TIM, he probably would.


You know the funny thing? even knowing ME3's twist, I would still hand over the Base to Cerberus. The Alliance is too flawed, the Council is too stupid and Cerberus were the only ones that believed me, gave me a ship and even bothered to look for Shepard's body.


I neglected to mention that I believe there's still some cross-talk between the highest levels of Alliance leadership and TIM. Although I am just not sure how much TIM shares with the Alliance. I think giving the base to the Alliance would mean TIM still gets toys to play with for his adventures in black ops, but I think he'd reserve quite a bit more for Cerberus only if given exclusive access to the base.

I'm okay with either option, but I'd prefer to hand the base over to Alliance. TIM and Cerberus have their uses, but I am not sure that securing the base and maintaining that security is one of them. 


It's too politically infeasable for the Alliance to deal with the CB due to the whole situation between citadel space and the terminus. It's better for an outlawed "terrorist" organization that many don't know much about to deal with it than risk any political blowback like slavers/mercs attacking Alliance colonies over intrusion into their turf.


Like I said, ultimately I'm okay with either option.

Even though I know Bioware will probably punish me for taking the non-Paragon path, I still refuse to metagame that decision since it would be inconsistent with my canon Shep thus far.

Modifié par marshalleck, 16 juillet 2011 - 08:21 .


#812
Bnol

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Seboist wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

ThePwener wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

If my Shepard could hand over access to the Alliance instead of TIM, he probably would.


You know the funny thing? even knowing ME3's twist, I would still hand over the Base to Cerberus. The Alliance is too flawed, the Council is too stupid and Cerberus were the only ones that believed me, gave me a ship and even bothered to look for Shepard's body.


I neglected to mention that I believe there's still some cross-talk between the highest levels of Alliance leadership and TIM. Although I am just not sure how much TIM shares with the Alliance. I think giving the base to the Alliance would mean TIM still gets toys to play with for his adventures in black ops, but I think he'd reserve quite a bit more for Cerberus only if given exclusive access to the base.

I'm okay with either option, but I'd prefer to hand the base over to Alliance. TIM and Cerberus have their uses, but I am not sure that securing the base and maintaining that security is one of them. 


It's too politically infeasable for the Alliance to deal with the CB due to the whole situation between citadel space and the terminus. It's better for an outlawed "terrorist" organization that many don't know much about to deal with it than risk any political blowback like slavers/mercs attacking Alliance colonies over intrusion into their turf.


Giving it to the Alliance would not have to be overt.  I mean Cerberus isn't going to be broadcasting that they have the collector base, the Alliance wouldn't need to either.

#813
Phaedon

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Dave of Canada wrote...

How will 150 people who are not legally allowed to do much "dominate" aliens who'll be studying the very same tech?

What the others said. If Cerberus manages to get something useful out of the base, they will use it against aliens at some point.

The Councilors are no goody-two-shoes's either. But at least they'd use the base to advance the 4 most powerful species, and wouldn't use it against anyone but the Reapers.

#814
Phaedon

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Seboist wrote...

It's too politically infeasable for the Alliance to deal with the CB due to the whole situation between citadel space and the terminus. It's better for an outlawed "terrorist" organization that many don't know much about to deal with it than risk any political blowback like slavers/mercs attacking Alliance colonies over intrusion into their turf.

Black ops is your answer.

#815
Ryzaki

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I don't see what good that base is gonna do when it's liable the Reapers will beeline for it to finish their Reaper.

If the Reapers have any sense at all they'll send a couple of their people to secure the base and try to salvage the HR.

#816
Someone With Mass

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Inverness Moon wrote...
If you were to ask Legion whether it is better to take that "certain path" or become extinct, I'm sure you could guess his answer.


And until you can prove that not taking that path when it comes to Reaper technology equals certain death, I'm just going to laugh every time.

#817
ThePwener

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Phaedon wrote...

The Councilors are no goody-two-shoes's either. But at least they'd use the base to advance the 4 most powerful species, and wouldn't use it against anyone but the Reapers.


You really believe that they wouldn't fight amongst themselves for the tech, and even more, exclusively use it against the Reapers?

Phase one) Implement [REAPER] tech into weaponry

Phase two) Give new weaponry army

Phase three) Use army against Reapers

Phase three) Reapers dead

Phase four) Use army against everyone else like before


Great logic there Phaedon. They aren't going to destroy the tech after they use it.

#818
Someone With Mass

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Dave of Canada wrote...

The Council plays nice until your species is not useful to them.


You mean exactly like Cerberus?

#819
mauro2222

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Dave of Canada wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

Too much tech for a galaxy that is not prepared for it, is like giving a gun to a ******-erectus, or the salarian mistake with the krogans. Even if they win the reapers war, they will be doomed at the end.


What do you think will happen to the Reaper corpses after the Reaper war? Do you think they'll magically disappear? People will master Reaper technology regardless of the Base, the only difference is the Base offers you the ability to study it before the events of ME3.


One thing is to be studying it, and the other is to be using it

#820
Ryzaki

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@Dave: They'd be fools if they did anything other than destroy the corpses. Reaper bodies can still indoctrinate as the DR tells us.

Would be ironic if they took all that effort destroying the Reapers and then got indoctrinated into remaking the Reapers.

#821
Phaedon

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ThePwener wrote...
You really believe that they wouldn't fight amongst themselves for the tech, and even more, exclusively use it against the Reapers?

They don't have the time to fight among themselves, they need to survive, first, and then, let's just say that I doubt that the Council will start attacking various races for no reason.

Phase one) Implement [REAPER] tech into weaponry

Phase two) Give new weaponry army

Phase three) Use army against Reapers

Phase three) Reapers dead

Phase four) Use army against everyone else like before

The Council's wars so far have been self-defence so far, no?


Great logic there Phaedon. They aren't going to destroy the tech after they use it.

Nope, the Council will become more powerful. But they are a confederacy. Not terrorists. And they would probably share the tech with other species, at least to defend against the Reapers.

Either way, I am glad I destroyed the base.

Modifié par Phaedon, 16 juillet 2011 - 08:28 .


#822
mauro2222

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Mesina2 wrote...

Phaedon wrote...

marshalleck wrote...
The UN and the Council aren't really very similar. Mainly because decisions the Council take actually have teeth.

That's only because they are the galactic police as well.



I have to disagree, Council is nothing like UN.

Council isn't completely useless.


Lol, so true. UN world police pff haha XD what a definition of corrupt police.

Modifié par mauro2222, 16 juillet 2011 - 08:29 .


#823
ThePwener

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Someone With Mass wrote...

And until you can prove that not taking that path when it comes to Reaper technology equals certain death, I'm just going to laugh every time.


Video Game - you'll win either way.

Real Life - use it or you're dead (extinct)

I prefer to play my games the realistic way. That's why I sacrificed the Council and why I kept the base.

#824
marshalleck

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Someone With Mass wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

The Council plays nice until your species is not useful to them.


You mean exactly like Cerberus?


Yes. Which is why it's so preposterous for people to champion the Council and demonize Cerberus. 

#825
Inverness Moon

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Phaedon wrote...

Give it to them as what it is, a Collector Base. And let them scheme all they want when they realize the truth. But if they can produce anything you bet they will. They produced the Thanix Cannon thinking that Sovereign was a Geth Dreadnaught anyway.

I'm sure they could produce something significant. But if they don't believe in the reapers, what will they do with it? Will they just allow the base to sit behind mountains of red tape? Will they fret over who gets what technology?

I don't expect them to realize the truth until the reapers kick their doors in.

The Council has already hindered Shepard at every step before, I don't expect them to stop now.

And therefore, giving the CB to Cerberus would make it harmless for the Reapers, but very harmful to everyone else, should you save the galaxy.

Cerberus is not the sole beneficiary of whatever it develops. That technology goes to the Alliance, because they represent humanity's power in the galaxy.

I don't care if the Alliance builds a dreadnaught if they remain allies with the aliens. But I doubt they can.

Are you suggesting that the Alliance getting better technology would suddenly drive allies? Why? That is assuming information on upgrades are made public.

Yeah, but it is possible that he is considering it. I am just sayin'.

And I'm just saying it makes no sense, so I don't think there is a point to talking about it.

What exactly could they gain, if even a single Reaper wouldn't be enough?

As I said previously, Cerberus would not be the sole beneficiary.

It is possible however, that the organic component is so big, that for a Reaper to be usable without it, would require redesign. That's how spacecraft design works, you can't just strip parts and expect them to work the same.

Considering a reaper flagship is merely a fantasy of mine, this isn't a problem.

Why would TIM care about the other races? Why wouldn't he just spend all of his powers defending Earth? Or what if TIM waits until the aliens are weak enough before rescuing them?

That seems like a silly question to ask. Here is another silly one: why would Shepard care about the other races?

The answer: because having allies in a war improves your chances of success.

Do you think TIM is blind to this? Do you think TIM believes allowing the reapers to pick off each race one at a time is a good idea? I don't.

Waiting until the aliens are weak would just mean less allies to help humanity survive.

If you think TIM can't see the value of allies then you're not looking at him realistically I think.

It definitely isn't magic, but we don't have enough time. We have yet to reproduce a mass relay, like the Protheans. Shouldn't Reapers be more complex?

Unlike the protheans we have a relatively intact base used for reaper construction to go through.

If the protheans had access to a mass relay factory I doubt it would have taken nearly as long for them. And remember that the mass relays are specifically designed to be used but not understood.