1939 réponses à ce sujet

[Inverness Moon]

Phaedon wrote...

Not when the Reapers arrive. 

Which might or not be too late.

I meant that Shepard isn't a scientist. S/He has to give it to someone else. I can see Mordin doing some stuff with the base, but he would still need help to research and mass produce stuff. That is, if Mordin survives.

Shepard has an interest in actually giving it to someone that will ensure it helps in the fight against the reapers.

That doesn't seem like the Council to me.

Why would Cerberus share the tech to the Alliance? The Council on the other hand would share the tech once the time comes. Cerberus wants their own domination, not the Alliance's.

You're frustrating me, because I'm sure I explained this already.

Cerberus is a small, secretive black ops group. They do not represent humanity in the galaxy, and they don't have the manpower to do so either. That role belongs to the Alliance. That is why technology developed by Cerberus to help humanity would go to the Alliance because its them that does the actual defending. Cerberus can't fight wars on its own.

You say Cerberus wants their own domination, but that is entirely impossible. TIM says that he wants human dominance, that means an Alliance with military, economic, and political strength to protect humanity with. Cerberus cannot do that on their own.

Okay, but then anything that could come out of the base would be less useful, no?

I've already explained that technology to upgrade all ships, or even to counter indoctrination, would be more useful than building a single reaper.

I suppose that that could work, though not necessarily. I don't think that Cerberus would care if all of the Alliance high ranking officers died. They could take the helm instead then. And the millions of humans that would die in the process? Not a problem. TIM believes in the "greater good" with Cerberus all over humanity.

Except having Cerberus people take the role of military commanders when they don't know how to is stupid. There are plenty of people in the Alliance who don't like Cerberus and aren't allied with them, but they're damn good at what they do and Cerberus would be foolish to simply not care about that.

What you're suggesting is not realistic.

Also, forging too many connections between the Alliance and Cerberus could backfire. What if the galaxy thinks that the Alliance actually supports Cerberus and what they've done, or that they're one and the same? I doubt TIM doesn't realize the problems that could arise from that.

So, what exactly could this tech be? Reaper weaknesses? Reaper weapons, armour? The HR didn't seem to be in a state for the last two to be developed...

Reaper/collector weapons, shields, armor, indoctrination, mass effect cores, etc. Those are all possibilities, not certainties.

If anything the CB should be capable of maintaining the collector ship and their technology, which means there should be information on that.

Or if we give it to Cerberus, considering that they appear to have gone rogue.

ME3 previews are not up for discussion.

Giving it to Cerberus is better than blowing it up in my eyes, and we'll find out how that pans out in ME3.

[ThePwener]

marshalleck wrote...

Cause and effect. Politics and history don't occur in a vacuum, and it doesn't only exist in textbooks or online wiki pages. It occurs every day around all of us. The actions people take, or don't take, shape what the future brings. The Council consistently fails to understand this, and thus are unfit for leadership.

Does who don't know they're history, are doomed to repeat it.

What has happened in ME3 has been (apperantly) happening for billions of years. We have the chance to stop it now. we need to take risks, sacrifice lifes. We are possibly the firsts to get so far in impending the Reaper's return. Nobody else will have that chance again. We need anything we can get our hands on. Forget about politics, forget about petty squabbles, forget about trust.

Something seems like it could help and you b low it up because you don't trust someone? That is pathetic. Lives hinder on choices like that, and you just **** it up.

[Dave of Canada]

ThePwener wrote...

You have no idea how complex the tech is. It's supposed to be the most advanced in existance, and you thik Cerberus can reverse the tech in a few months? I even doubt that a few years would be enough. We don't know when the Turians completed the Thanix Cannons during the two year span.

Turians are restricted by laws, funding and regulations. Cerberus, who aren't restricted by any of this, have proven themselves capable of reverse engineering and researching most of the Reaper tech during the preperation for the Suicide Mission (they've had some progress in particle weaponry and some minor progress in the regenerative plating, though nothing large scale yet).

Give them a few more month, dedicated teams working around the clock with blue prints and all the advanced tech in one spot? I'm sure they'd be capable of reverse engineering to a larger degree or at the very least have an understanding of most of the Reaper tech available in the base.

[Bnol]

Phaedon wrote...

Bnol wrote...
The Council doesn't believe in the reapers, thus they won't believe in indoctrination.  It would be much more dangerous to give it to them, than to an organization that knows the actual danger.  The reapers would then have indoctrinated sleeper agents of all the species.

How can you protect yourself from indoctrination?

Using robotics and rotating personnel regularly come to mind.  Shep has been in plenty of places where indoctrination has occurred, yet he/she seems fine (unless that is the big twist!).

[marshalleck]

Ryzaki wrote...

marshalleck wrote... Cerberus certainly do. They were the first to act when humans started disappearing. The Alliance did eventually pull its head out of its behind and realize they had a problem on their hands.

Right. One action means Cerberus completely understands cause and effect. This will go nowhere. 

It's not one action though, is it. It was an entire campaign starting with the Lazarus project, up to and including providing Shepard with intel and support all through ME2. 

What did the Council do for you? Reinstate your Spectre status, as long as you promise to restrict your activities to the Terminus? Big whoop, considering the Council, and thus Spectres have no authority in the Terminus in the first place.

Modifié par marshalleck, 16 juillet 2011 - 09:24 .

[Inverness Moon]

Someone With Mass wrote...

The Collectors are dead. Gone. A thing of the past.

Yes, and not because of anything the turians have done.

Phaedon wrote...

Bnol wrote...
The Council doesn't believe in the reapers, thus they won't believe in indoctrination.  It would be much more dangerous to give it to them, than to an organization that knows the actual danger.  The reapers would then have indoctrinated sleeper agents of all the species.

How can you protect yourself from indoctrination?

That's a good question, maybe we'll find the answer in the collector base.

Of course, you can just avoid it entirely by using mechs, but you wont have that luxury when the reapers arrive.

Edit: I'm done arguing for now, this is exhausting. 

Modifié par Inverness Moon, 16 juillet 2011 - 09:24 .

[ThePwener]

Dave of Canada wrote...

(they've had some progress in particle weaponry and some minor progress in the regenerative plating, though nothing large scale yet).

Im sorry, where is this from?

[Someone With Mass]

Inverness Moon wrote...
Yes, and not because of anything the turians have done.

No, but certainly helped dealing with the Collector ship more than EDI did.

[Dave of Canada]

ThePwener wrote...

Im sorry, where is this from?

Collector Armor / Rifle email.

Shepard,
Our researchers have been working with captured Collector technology for some time now. They've developed an experimental armor suit in your size and an assault rifle that the techs say should take a standard thermal clip. I had the items delivered to the Normandy's armory.
Good hunting.

And if IIRC, there's some more information near some upgrades though I can't find the information on the wikia about it.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 16 juillet 2011 - 09:33 .

[Phaedon]

[quote]Inverness Moon wrote...
Which might or not be too late.[/quote]
Extinciton doesn't happen overnight. Retrofitting like crazy can.

[quote]Shepard has an interest in actually giving it to someone that will ensure it helps in the fight against the reapers.

That doesn't seem like the Council to me.[/quote]
And it doesn't sound like Cerberus either. They don't want to fight just the Reapers, but the aliens too. Do you realize how irresponsible it is to give them the base? Whether they try to attack the aliens before or after the Reaper invasion it doesn't matter. Especially when there could be nothing produced in the base more powerful than a Reaper. 


[quote]
You're frustrating me, because I'm sure I explained this already.[/quote]
Cerberus doesn't care about the Alliance. At all. They have had marine squads killed for no apparent reason.

[quote]Cerberus is a small, secretive black ops group. They do not represent humanity in the galaxy, and they don't have the manpower to do so either. That role belongs to the Alliance. That is why technology developed by Cerberus to help humanity would go to the Alliance because its them that does the actual defending. Cerberus can't fight wars on its own.[/quote]
They don't have the manpower to represent humanity? They can very well put Terra Firma on top with someone who actually has ties to Cerberus and wage war on the other species.

Stop being so naive. Didn't you read the SB files? They are trying to alter the politics on Earth, even if that means assisinating some of Earth's most powerful people.

[quote]You say Cerberus wants their own domination, but that is entirely impossible. TIM says that he wants human dominance, that means an Alliance with military, economic, and political strength to protect humanity with. Cerberus cannot do that on their own.[/quote]
No, it's an Alliance with the ideals that Cerberus has, and with TIM pulling the strings. Otherwise they wouldn't interfere in politics.


[quote]
I've already explained that technology to upgrade all ships, or even to counter indoctrination, would be more useful than building a single reaper.[/quote]
Counter indoctrination? Reapers don't have minds. That is only available to use againt aliens. You are proving my point basically.

Upgrading ships? That's just wrong. Even if they somehow modified their ships in a way for them to have as much firepower as a Reaper, their numbers are still inferior. Upgraded ships can only be used against aliens.

[quote]
Except having Cerberus people take the role of military commanders when they don't know how to is stupid. There are plenty of people in the Alliance who don't like Cerberus and aren't allied with them, but they're damn good at what they do and Cerberus would be foolish to simply not care about that.

What you're suggesting is not realistic.[/quote]
Cerberus does want to promote their own people.
And last time I checked they had a leader. And military commanders.

[quote]Also, forging too many connections between the Alliance and Cerberus could backfire. What if the galaxy thinks that the Alliance actually supports Cerberus and what they've done, or that they're one and the same? I doubt TIM doesn't realize the problems that could arise from that.[/quote]
And that would only be a problem for him, if you don't give him the base.
He does want human domination. You think he cares what the other species think? He wants them to be in a lower state than humanity.

[quote]
Reaper/collector weapons, shields, armor, indoctrination, mass effect cores, etc. Those are all possibilities, not certainties.[/quote]
About the weapons and armor see above, indoctrination proves my point, ME cores don't change much in war. No fleet would be powerful enough to the Reapers even if they managed to get to a point in time.

[quote]If anything the CB should be capable of maintaining the collector ship and their technology, which means there should be information on that.[/quote]
The Collector ship is a cruiser, that's it. A heavy cruiser. It's not that impressive.
Their technolodgy? What technolodgy? You think that particle beams will save you?

[quote]
ME3 previews are not up for discussion.

Giving it to Cerberus is better than blowing it up in my eyes, and we'll find out how that pans out in ME3.
[/quote]
Yeah, because it basically destroys your argument.

It's a fact that Cerberus is against you in ME3, and that TIM is still the mastermind behind them.

And the CB choice has been confirmed not to be gamebreaking by CH.

Can the tech from the base possibly take down a Reaper? Impossible. Unless it's a Reaper. Therefore, the tech is only useful against organics.

Modifié par Phaedon, 16 juillet 2011 - 09:35 .

[The Elder King]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Inverness Moon wrote...
Yes, and not because of anything the turians have done.

No, but certainly helped dealing with the Collector ship more than EDI did.

That's not true. Especially because we can destroy the Collector ship without the Thanix.

[pablodurando]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

No, but certainly helped dealing with the Collector ship more than EDI did.

Really? EDI does a lot, you know. That whole cyberwarfare thing. Regardless, if not for her you'd have never made it that far in the first place.

Plus, the Thanix isn't even necessary. You can defeat the Collector ship without it.

Helpful, but not mission critical.

I may be wrong since I've always bought the Thanix, but doesn't it save one of your crew from dying.

[ThePwener]

Dave of Canada wrote...

ThePwener wrote...

Im sorry, where is this from?

Collector Armor / Rifle email.

Shepard,
Our researchers have been working with captured Collector technology for some time now. They've developed an experimental armor suit in your size and an assault rifle that the techs say should take a standard thermal clip. I had the items delivered to the Normandy's armory.
Good hunting.

And if IIRC, there's some more information near some upgrades though I can't find the information on the wikia about it.

Are you kidding me? Your using DLC as facts? lol

Dude, you can get that email at the start of the game, way before they even get to Freedom's Progress and Horizon, let alone the CB.

DISMISSED

[Raiil]

pablodurando wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

No, but certainly helped dealing with the Collector ship more than EDI did.

Really? EDI does a lot, you know. That whole cyberwarfare thing. Regardless, if not for her you'd have never made it that far in the first place.

Plus, the Thanix isn't even necessary. You can defeat the Collector ship without it.

Helpful, but not mission critical.

I may be wrong since I've always bought the Thanix, but doesn't it save one of your crew from dying.

Yep. The three necessary upgrades are the plating, the upgraded shields, and the thannix cannon. Assuming you want everyone to survive. 

[ThePwener]

pablodurando wrote...

I may be wrong since I've always bought the Thanix, but doesn't it save one of your crew from dying.

That it does. He failed.

[Raiil]

Saphra Deden wrote...

If the Council got its grubby tentacles, claws, (whatever) on the Collector base they'd strip it clean and each race would scatter it all over the galaxy. They'd botch it just like they did the investigation into Sovereign.

Every race would.

[ThePwener]

Saphra Deden wrote...

If the Council got its grubby tentacles, claws, (whatever) on the Collector base they'd strip it clean and each race would scatter it all over the galaxy. They'd botch it just like they did the investigation into Sovereign.

And that tech would then fall in the hands of criminals and other scum.

[Someone With Mass]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Really? EDI does a lot, you know. That whole cyberwarfare thing. Regardless, if not for her you'd have never made it that far in the first place.

Plus, the Thanix isn't even necessary. You can defeat the Collector ship without it.

Helpful, but not mission critical.

Yeah, I bet everyone would feel so safe flying into the Collector ship's main gun and fire at point blank, and lose people in the process.

And by the way. EDI wouldn't be needed if TIM wasn't so hilariously incompetent and gave Shepard actual intelligence instead of: "There's a ship there. Investigate. It's not a obvious trap. Pinky swear."  

[ThePwener]

Valentia X wrote...

Every race would.

Not if it's given to a specific race (Humanity). The Alliance or Cerberus, (if they did indeed achieve human dominance) wouldn't share the tech and would keep the secrets under tight lock. It would be like trying to figure out the codes to launch the US's nuclear missiles.

[ThePwener]

Saphra Deden wrote...

pablodurando wrote...

I may be wrong since I've always bought the Thanix, but doesn't it save one of your crew from dying.

Which is useful but not mission critical.

Really? Losing people before we even reach the base is NOT MISSION CRITICAL ???



DERP

Modifié par ThePwener, 16 juillet 2011 - 09:47 .