1939 réponses à ce sujet

[Bnol]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Bnol wrote...

No to batarians as they have shown obvious and continued hostility towards humans and no ties at all with the rest of the galactic community.  Yes to any of the other races.  The potential knowledge/tech from the base is what was important in my decision.  Also, if I was working with one of the other races, they would know of indoctrination and the reapers, and thus that danger would be mitigated.

I think you are looking at this the wrong. Imagine TIM, but instead of being human he is batarian. He doesn't work for the batarian government. He tells you that he believes you about the Reapers and that he thinks they're targeting humans. He is upfront with you that his goals are ultimately the safety, preservation, and advancement of the batarian species. However he also insists that he'll do whatever it takes to stop the Reapers and that he won't wait for them to make the first move. Even if they're targeting humanity he tells you he knows that sooner or later they'll turn to his people, so he wants to stop them now.

At the end he makes the same speech. You've won a single victory but you're still at war. Being in command means making hard choices.

Is an empowered batarian race really worth sabotaging our best chance to crack open Reaper technology and meet them on even ground?

Remember, once the war is over everyone, including humanity, will have access to Reaper tech anyway.

Hmm... now that would be a tough decision.  I guess I would give it to B-TIM, and have to deal with the aftermath later, because if we can't beat the reapers the other politics don't matter.  After the war is over, access is not the same as having the time to engineer and implement the technology.  Batarian interests are in direct conflict with human interests as they are attempting to settle the same space.  Humanity would be at a huge disadvantage.

[Raiil]

I'm curious as to how not shouting humanity first from the rooftops automatically makes you a species traitor. I won't put humanity above galactic safety, but I'm not going to fling them into a supernova for sport and profit either, and I'm a renegon.

[Bnol]

Luc0s wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

Well, as long as you aren't one of those Paragon race traitors anyway!

LOL seems you're just like ThePwner. So you rather get involved in an arms race against the Turians than try to unify the galaxy and gain the trust of the other species? Okay, fair enough. At least now I know where you're coming from.

Also, why would you say Paragons are race traitors? How does that make sense? I'm mostly Paragon with my main Shepard but I'm certainly not a traitor to my own race!

Edit: Apparently I was wrong, should not presume...

Modifié par Bnol, 17 juillet 2011 - 01:45 .

[Raiil]

Luc0s wrote...

Valentia X wrote...

I'm curious as to how not shouting humanity first from the rooftops automatically makes you a species traitor. I won't put humanity above galactic safety, but I'm not going to fling them into a supernova for sport and profit either, and I'm a renegon.

So did you blow up the base or give it to TIM?

Blew it up. Giving Cerberus the collector base was, in my mind, like giving the Cain to a fifteen year old drunk on power. Declaring that you 'are' humanity is not the same thing as actually being humanity. 

[Inverness Moon]

Saphra Deden wrote...

If the welfare and prosperity of the human species isn't your priority then you're a traitor.

That seems rather dramatic. The idea that caring about all species equally makes you a traitor is silly.

Modifié par Inverness Moon, 17 juillet 2011 - 01:44 .

[Raiil]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Valentia X wrote...

I'm curious as to how not shouting humanity first from the rooftops automatically makes you a species traitor. I won't put humanity above galactic safety, but I'm not going to fling them into a supernova for sport and profit either, and I'm a renegon.

If the welfare and prosperity of the human species isn't your priority then you're a traitor.

Having a galaxy for humans to have welfare and prosperity in trumps giving them the leash and wishing them well. I prefer that no one has too much power, and as much as the alien council irks me at time, having the balance of power between the council and individual races work better than one race having all the power. Humanity can leave the Council if they wish, if they don't wish to be under their thumb.

[Sebby]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Luc0s wrote...

@Saphra Deden:

May I ask where you're coming from? I mean, what did you do in your main ME playthrough? Did you destroy the Collector base or hand it over to TIM? Because I'm a little confused now where you're coming from.

I kept it.

I ask this question though because it is easy to keep the base when you know you're giving it to a pro-human organization.

Well, as long as you aren't one of those Paragon race traitors anyway!

The Paragon race traitors would rather see humanity die out than to go against their blubbering idealism.

[Raiil]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Inverness Moon wrote...

That seems rather dramatic. The idea that caring about all species equally makes you a traitor is silly.

Why is it silly? Somebody needs to put humans first. It sure as hell won't be the aliens.

And what will you do to ensure that humanity doesn't fracture into factions squabbling for power? Humans can be pretty big dicks to their own species just to ensure their own power.

[Inverness Moon]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Why is it silly? Somebody needs to put humans first. It sure as hell won't be the aliens.

What does "put humans first" entail exactly?

[marshalleck]

First among equals? What?

At least Renegades are honest about their intentions.

And it's not racist. Race amongst humans is a misguided notion. Genetically we're all dramatically lacking in diversity as a species, compared to almost every other species on Earth. So yeah, racism in humans is bull****. 

Now when being concerned with the welfare of your species in a galaxy full of other species who may or may not be possessed of egalitarian inclinations, it's perfectly natural and justified to take the attitude of "we must look out for ourselves, because nobody else will."

That doesn't mean you have to hate others or look to abuse, exploit, and dominate them at every opportunity. 

Modifié par marshalleck, 17 juillet 2011 - 01:57 .

[Raiil]

Why would we? We
made the Alliance after all. We did such a good job that in a short
time the Systems Alliance became one of the major players on the
galactic stage.

We'll do just fine.

Giving someone the culmination of eons of unstoppable power is a little bit different than putting together a system dedicated to representing us as a whole.

Generally speaking, humans have kind of failed with the whole 'power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely' bit. The system works right now because no one has enough individual power to gain an edge. Giving someone Reaper tech tilts the scales too heavily unless you can guarantee that the person getting it is the manifestation of Incorruptible Pure Pureness. Giving someone too much of a good thing leads to situations like the Krogan uprising; in their case, their edge was due to superior strength and being able to breed like rabbits.