1939 réponses à ce sujet

[Foolsfolly]

JamieCOTC wrote...

It's threads like these that make me glad I have multiple Shepards. I get to see every decision and not have to pick a side and worry about proving my point to the world.

People are really into these choices.

All I know is I have some Paragons who kept the base, some Renegades who destroyed the base, and vice versa. It's all good. Whatever the outcomes of these things the characters will have the consquences.

If we were going after real life I'd still destroy it. But for reasons the game doesn't give us. It's a base in a hard to reach area with no outer defences. Reapers can arrive easily. It's massive.

It'd take too many people to secure the base and man it. While having no defence against the Reapers when they hit. Keeping the base would spread forces too thin.

Just quickly hack their computers, steal data, and maybe some equipment for study, then blow the base. Taking it away from the Reapers.

[alperez]

Malanek999 wrote...

EDIT: Actually reading that again was there supposed to be a question mark at the end of your statement? Perhaps this should have been credited to pwener, however my comment still stands.

Yeah i missed a question mark,typo blindness affects us all lol.

[Malanek]

I should have read more carefully as well.

[Massadonious1]

The only thing we know for sure is that it can create a human reaper. Assuming people can rationalize or circumvent the whole pesky turning our own kind into human paste feature, of course.

Anything else is just wishful thinking/speculation, and it certainly isn't any different (or even tactically different) than people thinking/hoping they can just get by with good 'ol fashioned fleet power.

[mauro2222]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Paragon Shepard wasn't keeping the technology from people, just delaying it.

Because we are not ready.
Technology applied before cultural progress is equal to doom.

[Son of Illusive Man]

Even for the "Ruthless Pragmatic", I can't see why you would give the base to TIM.

The Lazarus Project is the only successful project by a Cerberus cell that we've seen in the series, and even that was just barely. It was a few gunshots away from ending in disaster.

Even if we DO survive the Reapers, Cerberus might kill us....you know with that whole Overlord thing and all.

And for the Paragons, the choice is clear. It was also Mark Twain who said

[mauro2222]

alperez wrote...

laecraft wrote...

You traded the salvation of the galaxy for a brief moment of personal satisfaction, and you want long-term consequences, as well? You can't have both.

Your really sticking to your guns that keeping the base is the salvation of the galaxy, no amount of evidence or new info being released has changed your mind, its the base or the galaxy is screwed as far as your concerned.

There's being annoyed, being stubborn or blindingly holding on to a belief that you alone know all the answers and no matter what anyone else says in the end you will be proved right.

Kudos and pat yourself on the back, oh and btw when the choice bites you in the ass don't worry about it, after all sticking to your guns is much more important, than simple things like logical thinking or assimilating info before making an informed choice.

They usually think that more weapons = win

[demonic_cookie]

You make moral choices because they're moral, not because you know they will pay out in the end. The whole definition of 'the high road' is doing things that will make your life more difficult just for the sake of "doing the right thing."

Most of my Paragons keep the base because they think it will help against the reapers. So far the only two who've blown it up are the "Lawful Stupid" Paragon who is only there for the sake Ashley/Miranda catfight, and a Renegade who just went "this crap is sick!" and didn't listen to reason because that's the kind of person she is.

[mauro2222]

Malanek999 wrote...

alperez wrote...
Everyone who saved the council metagamed, and the people who didn't take the renegede action with the base are hippocrites, do i sense some hostility because not everyone agrees with you or plays in the manner you do.

Wooaaahhh!!!! Load of rubbish I'm afraid. People who are idealists would take that action regardless if there was a strategically greater chance of failure. Some people find it really hard to let thousands of people die when they can do something about it. For the record, I generally prefer taking paragon choices, but I think saving the collector base was the best decision for shepard.

EDIT: Actually reading that again was there supposed to be a question mark at the end of your statement? Perhaps this should have been credited to pwener, however my comment still stands.

This

[Son of Illusive Man]

ThePwener wrote...

Destroying the base IS a stupid idea. As Dean clearly pointed out, there are going to be dead Reapers (obviously), and everyone will begin studying them in no time. Keeping the base just gives humanity a heads up, making sure we don't get pushed around by the Batarians and the Turians.

"Human dominance?  Or just Cerberus?"

[jtsherrard]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Let it never be said I can't be offended on the behalf of Paragons everywhere. If there's one choice which seems to be a non-choice for the Paragons, a significant choice which makes no apparent difference... the Collector Base may well be that choice. Given all the post-ME2 side material, it's increasingly hard to justify destroying the base as anything but a petty 'stick it to TIM' gesture... and believe it or not, I want people to have other reasons avaiable for taking actions.



Was it to destroy the corrupt knowledge and secrets, to 'preserve the soul of our species'? 

Even the Shadow Broker intended to cross the relay and learn as much as possible... and the Reapers arrival will mean Reaper tech for everyone (if we survive). Paragon Shepard wasn't keeping the technology from people, just delaying it.



Was it to deny Cerberus any Reaper technology? 

Regardless of the decision, enough Reaper and Collector technology exists for Cerberus to craft its own Reaper-technology experiment: the effects of Retribution, and the Grayson experiments.



Was it to stop Cerberus from hurting other species with and for the technology inside? 

The upcoming comic Invasion features Cerberus unleashing a new creation from beyond the Omega 4 relay into the streets of Omega, a creation that may wipe out Aria herself.



Was it to stop Cerberus from indoctrinating itself?

Well, Mass Effect 3's E3 demos rather addressed how well that worked.



Was it because blown up Reaper technology is safe Reaper technology?

Well, given all of the above...



I'm annoyed, and I didn't even make this choice. You may be annoyed as well. And together, we'll be pair annoyed.

If the best justifications for destroying the Collector Base were to protect people from what was inside, and destroying it does not do that... was there still good reason to do so?

These are all valid points, yet one point is overlooked:

The game is still scripted, we merely choose which scripted event occurs. After everything that the base was being used for, it was a font of monsterous technology and the paragon conclusion said that it had to be stopped (refer to the conversation parashepard had when he was trying to get Nirali Bhatia's body for insight to his logic) . Shepard did not know about the other events you listed because that is either dated after, during for simply Metagame knowledge. He only knows what his team has been doing, no other knowledge is available to him or even Miranda. The books and comics allow insight into the world, but its easy to foget where shep's knowledge ends and where the player's begins. Just my 2 cents.

[AtreiyaN7]

I actually saved the base during one run - as a Paragon - thinking that the benefits were worth the risk. However, after that conversation with TIM, it certainly sounded like he was serving his own interests more so than humanity's interests. I wouldn't have put it past him to use the tech so that he could dominate humankind himself. After that, I changed my mind and blew up the base on my other runs. I don't really know how it will turn out, but it's not something that I'm worked up about at this point.

Modifié par AtreiyaN7, 15 juillet 2011 - 04:53 .

[Raiil]

Eh, I have my canon renegon who chose to blow the base sky-high. My paragon Shepard is a derp and was taking the moral high ground. My renegon found the whole base to be repugnant and could find no way around to keeping the base. She considered it, and couldn't find any scenario in which having the base would somehow benefit galactic safety long-term.

Even if you could use it to nuke the Reapers, it ensures Cerberus dominance, and she believes that no group should have that much power. Even if the opportunity to hand it to the Alliance or the Council had come up, it still would have gone boom.

[Nashiktal]

I didn't keep it, but only because just like in the first game, your choices are never allowed to make secondary choices.

No alliance? No council? Hell why not just keep it as a bargaining chip to keep tim and the others in check?

Bah.

[DxWill10]

Liara pretty much summons it up on the Normandy. The reapers have one less tool when they arrive.

[littlezack]

 It's basically a giant machine that turns species into giant warmachines. Even ignoring the philosophical debate, nothing good can come from letting something like that just sit around.

[Tasker]

Not to mention that as Cerberus are now Sheps enemy again - Stopping them having a big feck off base full of Reaper tech is a good thing.








-EDIT-

Oh and just to clarify,  Feck is a word used in the TV series Father Ted and is not me trying to curcumvent the swear filter. It's a word that over the last decade or so - has ingrained itself into British society as a non swear word alternative.

Modifié par Orkboy, 15 juillet 2011 - 06:28 .

[KillTheLastRomantic]

I felt conflicted about destroying the base and was going to reload and preserve it until TIM's comic book villian reaction about how it could have been used to assert human dominance in the galaxy drained all moral greyness from the choice.

[KillTheLastRomantic]

littlezack wrote...

 It's basically a giant machine that turns species into giant warmachines. Even ignoring the philosophical debate, nothing good can come from letting something like that just sit around.

Well surely any insight into the Reapers construction would be useful when coming up with ways to defeat them.

[Nimrodell]

The problem is not in destroying the base - problem is in Shepard's words - what Shepard says isn't why I destroy it, simple as that. I don't trust Reaper tech. In my first playthrough, it was just mission away when I saw what happened to dr Chandana's team, then there was Firewalker story, Virmire and all those indoctrinated plus Rana Tanoptis and I just didn't want to take that risk... not to mention that I never ever trusted TIM. So, no, I didn't destroy it 'cause I won't let fear compromise who I am, I destroyed it and still destroying it each time 'cause I've seen what happens to humans on the places like that one and 'cause I don't trust TIM.
And that's what's wrong with paragon's choice to destroy the base - explanation itself, reason that was given. Actually fear from many other plausible scenarios made me do it not 'cause that place was an abomination.

[Homebound]

my choice was more finding out why me giving it to cerberus was a bad idea. then shepard goes on about how he'll do it without sacrificing the species' soul.

that was lame, but it was samara's 2000+ years of justicar knowledge that convinced me. She said something to the effect of "the illusive man doesnt understand he isnt wise enough to use it". basically, giving a child a nuke.

[FouCapitan]

I basically considered it Shepard's letter of resignation. Signed in explosions.

[Inverness Moon]

Son of Illusive Man wrote...

Even for the "Ruthless Pragmatic", I can't see why you would give the base to TIM.

The Lazarus Project is the only successful project by a Cerberus cell that we've seen in the series, and even that was just barely. It was a few gunshots away from ending in disaster.

Even if we DO survive the Reapers, Cerberus might kill us....you know with that whole Overlord thing and all.

And for the Paragons, the choice is clear. It was also Mark Twain who said

My decision to give the base to TIM was easy:

1. Destroying what might give us a significant advantage against the Reapers is foolish.
2. The Reapers dwarf any threat Cerberus poses with or without the base.
3. We know nothing about Reaper numbers or even how to fight them, other than throwing entire fleets at them. There could be anywhere from 300 to 30,000. Destroying anything that could improve our chances is foolish.

Also, it's also silly to think that you know about all of Cerberus's successes and failures. Cerberus doesn't send Shepard to clean up their successes.

"Even if we DO survive the Reapers, Cerberus might kill us..."

The Reapers have a proven track record of genocide going back tens of millions of years. It's absurd to sabatoge your chances against them because you're worried about Cerberus. The only way to explain that is either ignorance of the threat the Reapers represent, or you're metagaming because you know the Reapers will be dealt with in ME3.

Valentia X wrote...

My paragon Shepard is a derp

This is just hilarious to me for some reason.

Modifié par Inverness Moon, 15 juillet 2011 - 07:19 .

[CroGamer002]

Big explosion, give a finger to Incompetent Man and not be that desperate to give on your own tech about indoctrination to terrorists.