Guest_Luc0s_*
Saphra Deden wrote...
Who cares how aliens percieve us? The stronger we become the less desirable we will be to have as enemies. More species will want to partner with us for protection and to keep us from being a threat to them. The greatest security for humanity is power, not good will.
Modifié par Luc0s, 17 juillet 2011 - 02:36 .
Valentia X wrote...
That's how I play it, but as far as I'm concerned, renegon/paragade means there's less than a 25-30% difference between your paragon and renegade score, with whatever you have more of being the first part of the word (I was at 100% renegade and 75% paragon last time, so renegon for me)!
Guest_Luc0s_*
Seboist wrote...
Even with the malevolent smack talking against the Rachni the decision to wipe them out has nothing to do with Shepard being a "xenophobe".
Luc0s wrote...
Again, maybe I'm naive, but I rather see equality among everyone. I wouldn't place Europe above America and China and I won't place humanity above the other species. Instead, I see everyone as equals and in ME I would try to create an alliance between all species as equals.
Guest_Luc0s_*
In Exile wrote...
I'm a paragade. Nice and diplomatic... unless something needs killing, or the galaxy is at stake.
Luc0s wrote...
Seboist wrote...
Even with the malevolent smack talking against the Rachni the decision to wipe them out has nothing to do with Shepard being a "xenophobe".
Renegade speech when you get the Normandy in ME1 is pretty much xenophobic, or at least pretty damn racist. I know there are more examples of pure-Renegade Shepard showing racism and xenophobia, but it's 4:38 AM here and I can't think of any examples right now out the top of my head (since i only have 1 Renegade playthrough so I don't remember much of it right now).
In Exile wrote...
Valentia X wrote...
That's how I play it, but as far as I'm concerned, renegon/paragade means there's less than a 25-30% difference between your paragon and renegade score, with whatever you have more of being the first part of the word (I was at 100% renegade and 75% paragon last time, so renegon for me)!
Yeah, that's what I thought. I'm a paragade. Nice and diplomatic... unless something needs killing, or the galaxy is at stake.
Guest_Luc0s_*
Seboist wrote...
The only smack talking Renegade did against other species that offended me was when he would mouth off against the Vorcha. Everything else was alright with me.
Modifié par Luc0s, 17 juillet 2011 - 02:54 .
Upsettingshorts wrote...
PrimalEden wrote...
Not so much renegade options are being punished but rather that's what happens when you choose the options to shoot everyone. Karma is demonstrated that way. Not an issue of being good or bad in morals, but just the consequences of what is done to people and their reactions (or lack thereof).
Well the problem there is that I really don't think Mass Effect 1 or 2 does at all a good job at deciding what Renegade Shepard is.
Is he a coldly expedient problem solver? If so, he ought to be rewarded for doing the smart thing as opposed to the right thing. The reward for doing the right thing is feeling good about yourself, and having others feel good about you. Note: This is how I think he ought to be, as the right thing vs. smart thing makes for interesting decisions.
Is he a psychopathic bad-ass who kills for sport? If so, well... I have a hard time coming up with anything for this one. But plenty of Renegade actions in Mass Effect qualify for this label, no matter how little it makes sense for someone like that to rise to the rank of Lieutenant Commander in a civilized military force, let alone command the respect of level headed subordinates or a person like Captain Anderson.
Is he dedicated to human dominance in the galaxy? If so, he ought to be rewarded by the end of Mass Effect 3 with just that - humanity in control of the galaxy. The problem is this really only comes up in a small handful of major decisions (endgame of both ME1 and ME2, for example) and can't be the basis for his entire character. The downside is all the aliens hate you, but if you're roleplaying this Shepard, you don't really care about them.
Paragon Shepard however can be easily categorized: Right makes might. He's a good guy, he sets an example, and he still gets the job done. He's a consistent character. Renegade Shepard's inconsistency makes playing any of the above three options problematic, and impossible with any consistency.
Needless to say, combined with my earlier posts it's safe to say I think Renegade Shepard has a lot of problems.Talogrungi wrote...
I'm really not a fan of "pure" runs, either Paragon or Renegade.
Me neither, which is why I cheat to max out my Paragon/Renegade pools and make up my own mind without having to metagame my points. I end up roughly 65/35 in favor of Paragon on my canon playthrough, though I haven't decided what I'm doing with a lot of decisions yet
Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 17 juillet 2011 - 02:50 .
Bnol wrote...
*snip*
You want to ally with nations/species that provide you with something. If they are a weak ally you are only weakening yourself by being pulled into their problems. You see this over and over with the council not wanting to deal with humanities problems. They allow us to colonize on the border of Council space, but then when we get attacked they don't do anything. They would do something if we had more military and economic power as they would not want to lose that.
Bnol wrote...
Valentia X wrote...
It matters because we aren't an island alone in the galactic sea. We rely on trade and diplomacy fairly heavily, much as we currently do in real life. We need trade deals, we import, we export, we work on projects together and all pitch in to take care of the galaxy, at least as far as it extends under Council space. Our ship is based on humans and turians working together. Our upgrades includes extensions that originated with the asari and the quarians. We benefit and move ahead scientifically and medically by having friends and partners in the greater galactic community. For that, we need goodwill. I would hate to see the humans end up as the galactic version of Cuba or North Korea because 'we don't care what no stinkin' aliens think about us!'
Perception is important to move forward.
Except the Alliance would be more like a China or a United States. I mean you trade with China because it is a huge market and has imense production power. You don't trade with them because you are best buddies and the history of sweat shop labor and civil rights problems is quickly swept under the table. Similarly the US has done plenty of things the rest of the world doesn't like, but nobody is about the stop the US right now because of the military strength/presence around the world. Both countries did not start as major international powers and had to work out from the shadow/thumb of another power, but attained that status from doing things in their own interests.
You want to ally with nations/species that provide you with something. If they are a weak ally you are only weakening yourself by being pulled into their problems. You see this over and over with the council not wanting to deal with humanities problems. They allow us to colonize on the border of Council space, but then when we get attacked they don't do anything. They would do something if we had more military and economic power as they would not want to lose that.
Guest_Luc0s_*
Valentia X wrote...
In Exile wrote...
Valentia X wrote...
That's how I play it, but as far as I'm concerned, renegon/paragade means there's less than a 25-30% difference between your paragon and renegade score, with whatever you have more of being the first part of the word (I was at 100% renegade and 75% paragon last time, so renegon for me)!
Yeah, that's what I thought. I'm a paragade. Nice and diplomatic... unless something needs killing, or the galaxy is at stake.
Apparently they're aren't a lot of us around. We need a support group.
You're the Vorcha's Anders aren't you?Seboist wrote...
Luc0s wrote...
Seboist wrote...
Even with the malevolent smack talking against the Rachni the decision to wipe them out has nothing to do with Shepard being a "xenophobe".
Renegade speech when you get the Normandy in ME1 is pretty much xenophobic, or at least pretty damn racist. I know there are more examples of pure-Renegade Shepard showing racism and xenophobia, but it's 4:38 AM here and I can't think of any examples right now out the top of my head (since i only have 1 Renegade playthrough so I don't remember much of it right now).
The only smack talking Renegade did against other species that offended me was when he would mouth off against the Vorcha. Everything else was alright with me.
Luc0s wrote...
Valentia X wrote...
In Exile wrote...
Valentia X wrote...
That's how I play it, but as far as I'm concerned, renegon/paragade means there's less than a 25-30% difference between your paragon and renegade score, with whatever you have more of being the first part of the word (I was at 100% renegade and 75% paragon last time, so renegon for me)!
Yeah, that's what I thought. I'm a paragade. Nice and diplomatic... unless something needs killing, or the galaxy is at stake.
Apparently they're aren't a lot of us around. We need a support group.
Well apperantly I'm one of you guys without really realizing it, I always called myself a Paragon, but I'm like you guys: nice and diplomatic, unles something needs killing or the galaxy is at stake.
That said, I DID destroy the Collector base and I DID save the council on my later playthrough (they died on my first playthrough when I played ME for the first time) and I also saved the rachni and I kept the genophage cure research data around. So maybe I'm mostly Paragon, but I often use intimidate (red options) to get wat I need, unless the red option is completely racist or stupid.
Like I said, my morality meter is 100% Paragon and 50% Renegade so...
Luc0s wrote...
Seboist wrote...
Luc0s wrote...
Seboist wrote...
Even with the malevolent smack talking against the Rachni the decision to wipe them out has nothing to do with Shepard being a "xenophobe".
Renegade speech when you get the Normandy in ME1 is pretty much xenophobic, or at least pretty damn racist. I know there are more examples of pure-Renegade Shepard showing racism and xenophobia, but it's 4:38 AM here and I can't think of any examples right now out the top of my head (since i only have 1 Renegade playthrough so I don't remember much of it right now).
The only smack talking Renegade did against other species that offended me was when he would mouth off against the Vorcha. Everything else was alright with me.
Can't remember that in my Renegade playthrough. Where did that happen?
Shhhhh, don't let it slip that my Vorcha brethren are rigging the chan..err club afterlife with explosives..Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...
You're the Vorcha's Anders aren't you?Seboist wrote...
Luc0s wrote...
Seboist wrote...
Even with the malevolent smack talking against the Rachni the decision to wipe them out has nothing to do with Shepard being a "xenophobe".
Renegade speech when you get the Normandy in ME1 is pretty much xenophobic, or at least pretty damn racist. I know there are more examples of pure-Renegade Shepard showing racism and xenophobia, but it's 4:38 AM here and I can't think of any examples right now out the top of my head (since i only have 1 Renegade playthrough so I don't remember much of it right now).
The only smack talking Renegade did against other species that offended me was when he would mouth off against the Vorcha. Everything else was alright with me.
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
In Exile wrote...
Humanity is more like Brazil or India: an up-and-coming backwater nation, compared to the Turians or Asari. Maybe after ME2, it's more like Japan in the 70s-80s.
Saphra Deden wrote...
Humanity is America and the Reaper War is our WWII.
Saphra Deden wrote...
Humanity is America and the Reaper War is our WWII.
I NEED TO WARNSeboist wrote...
Shhhhh, don't let it slip that my Vorcha brethren are rigging the chan..err club afterlife with explosives..Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...
You're the Vorcha's Anders aren't you?Seboist wrote...
Luc0s wrote...
Seboist wrote...
Even with the malevolent smack talking against the Rachni the decision to wipe them out has nothing to do with Shepard being a "xenophobe".
Renegade speech when you get the Normandy in ME1 is pretty much xenophobic, or at least pretty damn racist. I know there are more examples of pure-Renegade Shepard showing racism and xenophobia, but it's 4:38 AM here and I can't think of any examples right now out the top of my head (since i only have 1 Renegade playthrough so I don't remember much of it right now).
The only smack talking Renegade did against other species that offended me was when he would mouth off against the Vorcha. Everything else was alright with me.
Modifié par Grand Admiral Cheesecake, 17 juillet 2011 - 03:05 .
Guest_Luc0s_*
Seboist wrote...
Luc0s wrote...
Seboist wrote...
Luc0s wrote...
Seboist wrote...
Even with the malevolent smack talking against the Rachni the decision to wipe them out has nothing to do with Shepard being a "xenophobe".
Renegade speech when you get the Normandy in ME1 is pretty much xenophobic, or at least pretty damn racist. I know there are more examples of pure-Renegade Shepard showing racism and xenophobia, but it's 4:38 AM here and I can't think of any examples right now out the top of my head (since i only have 1 Renegade playthrough so I don't remember much of it right now).
The only smack talking Renegade did against other species that offended me was when he would mouth off against the Vorcha. Everything else was alright with me.
Can't remember that in my Renegade playthrough. Where did that happen?
When Shepard tries to intimidate the Asari merchant on Illium and the Krogan scout in Mordin's loyalty mission.
Tali makes a slam against them in her loyalty mission too come to think of it.
Guest_Luc0s_*
Saphra Deden wrote...
Humanity is America and the Reaper War is our WWII.
Modifié par Luc0s, 17 juillet 2011 - 03:08 .
Luc0s wrote...
Seboist wrote...
Luc0s wrote...
Seboist wrote...
Luc0s wrote...
Seboist wrote...
Even with the malevolent smack talking against the Rachni the decision to wipe them out has nothing to do with Shepard being a "xenophobe".
Renegade speech when you get the Normandy in ME1 is pretty much xenophobic, or at least pretty damn racist. I know there are more examples of pure-Renegade Shepard showing racism and xenophobia, but it's 4:38 AM here and I can't think of any examples right now out the top of my head (since i only have 1 Renegade playthrough so I don't remember much of it right now).
The only smack talking Renegade did against other species that offended me was when he would mouth off against the Vorcha. Everything else was alright with me.
Can't remember that in my Renegade playthrough. Where did that happen?
When Shepard tries to intimidate the Asari merchant on Illium and the Krogan scout in Mordin's loyalty mission.
Tali makes a slam against them in her loyalty mission too come to think of it.
What did Shepard say about the Vorcha? Still can't remember it.
What I do remember all of the sudden about Renegade Shepard is the fact that in the interview with that b*tch when she asks about the Normandy and you pick the Renegade option, Renegade Shepard will say that the Normandy is a huge HUMAN invention and a fine piece of HUMAN engineering, which is not only completely racist towards the Turians, but it's a damn lie! The Normandy is a human project with TURIAN inventions and TURIAN engineering.
I thought that was a pretty a-hole move from Renegade Shepard, to lie about the origins of the Normandy.
Guest_Luc0s_*
Seboist wrote...
With that Asari he says "I don't give a vorcha's ass" and with the Krogan he tries to rile him up by comparing him to a Vorcha.
Modifié par Luc0s, 17 juillet 2011 - 03:10 .
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