1939 réponses à ce sujet

[Admoniter]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

It's a shame we didn't get Cerberus to develop the Thanix cannon, though: I would've loved to see them attach one of old Sovvy's legs to the SR-2.

I imagine that doing that would really throw off the Normandy's thrust profile.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Medhia Nox wrote...

What exactly do you people think the Reapers would place on the Collector Base that is the "winning key" to victory?

And - WHY would the Reapers put this "winning key" on a slave ship designated for one purpose?

Because it was cused ot create a Repar. It's basicly a advanced shipyard.

What one can reasonably expect to get from it? New ship construction knowledge, insight in reper construction (and possible weakneses)...just for starters.

[Lotion Soronarr]

jedierick wrote...

Dude, this whole post is pretty much made up of assumptions, nobody knows if the base will or will not generate anything usefull. You assume that the base has more on it, but you dont know, I assume that the base is worthless but I dont know for sure. You cannot base anything on fact other than there was a reaper that shepard destroyed, you assume there is more to the base than just the one reaper but you dont know, for all you know the collectors eat the human paste and pooped it into the reaper, there is nothing in the game that tells us how they built the reaper other than using humans to do so. Dont talk to me about assumptions.

The differnece is that your assumptions are mostly garbage.
It makes no sense to assume ther's nothing of worth on the base.

It's a SHIPYARD. It has a REAPER CORPSE in it.

Your claims and assumptions are redicolous. It's like saiyng if I take over a Toyota factory, I won't get any information on how the cars are built. the Repars mechanical components had to be built. they didn't jsut spring into existence on their own!

And um the Reaper IFF team DID get indoctroinated, and turned into husks, have you played this game?  And name a team or expiriment, outside of shepards team, that did not result in indoctoirnation, or being turned into husks.

My bad. Thought one thing, typed another.

And your metagaming a little there arent you, you dont know if TIM has a whole battalion available to send to the base, notrhing in the game says he does, unless your assuming.

Nope. Cerberus as an organization is not as big as the Alliance or any of the other races armies, but it's not tiny or insignificant. It has the resources and manpower for all those experiments and building of Normandy Mk2, so it's safe to assume it has a sizable security/combat force.
After all, Shep has clashed with some in ME1. So yes, It's very safe to assume TIM has 100 armed men available to send.

If I wanted to metagame, I'd point at ME3 Cerberus troops accoutning for 40% of encountered enemies.

[Lotion Soronarr]

jedierick wrote...
The deathindoctorinatrion of the team is very relevent, especialy if you think that TIM is going to handle other missions like that. With the knowledge he had, he should have been better prepared. Sure the success of the mission is worth the risk, but he didnt prepare for anything, which says a lot.

It is questioanble how much knowledge he DID have on indoctrination. I don't recall Cerberus working with reper tech before the derelict Reaper. And it's not reper tech in general that indoctrinates - it's the Reaper specificly. Meaning there's some mechanism/device. Otehrwise, the turians reverse--engineering hte Thanix cannon would have also been indoctrinated. And Shhep too.
Either way, the death of hte team, as long as the data is gathered and sent - is irrelevant, and honestly a small price to pay for the salvation of hte galaxy.

Second, you are assuming that the base has data and machinery that could creat a reaper, we saw one hanging there, but we saw no machinary building it, again for all you know the collectros destroy every tool they use to make every part of the reaper, YOU DONT KNOW, it is an assumption. You have no way around that, logic says that there shoud be something, but you dont know for sure.

You dont know for sure what is in the base, if you do, tell me where, give me proof. Cause all I saw walking through the base was collecotrs, human blender tank things,, doors, husks, collectors, the human reaper, floating platforms, the communication device used to control the collectrs etc. Nothing that said on it, Acme reaper making machine.

So again, I say, no matter which side you choose, you are making assumptions,  for or agaisnt blowing the base, we are all making assumptions of what it could give us. TIm doesnt know everything on there, he is assuming there is stuff on there that can help him.

You're now grasping at straws here.
First of all, The Reaper base is massive. You've only seen a small part of it, and hte team choose the paths with least resistance.
Second, why would they destroy the mechinery? The reaper wasn't finished yet. Why would they destroy it at all? It makes little sense. And there's also the question of the defeated reaper. It didn't desintegrate..it's still in the base.
In other words, you making assumptions that are HIGHLY UNLIKELY, and then using them to justify an action, all the while admiting your lack of knowledge.

If you don't know if there's something usefull left in teh station (and probability and reason dictate it's far more liketly there is), then how do you jsutify destroying it? That only works if you KNOW there's nothing of worth left.

[John Renegade]

John Renegade wrote...

First: Once again, the indoctrination/death of the team is not relevant. The success of the project is. The project has statistically higher chance of success than failure based on previous Cerberus projects (see my previous post). To go for something, that has low probability of happening (choosing to destroy the base for the fear of project failure) is in this case equal to a man wanting to jump out of the window, because he wants to get into space and thinks that though all previous observations (the probability) suggests that gravity pulls people to earth and not to sky, there is a bigger chance of him being pulled by the gravity up.

And yes, that example is valid, because as long as we dont know EXACTLY how the universe works, there is still a possibility, that under some unknown conditions we can't yet predict the gravity will pull us up.


Second: Not only that the base has for sure the machinery that can create the reaper, which if we will study will allow us to understand the process of creating the Reaper. In other words we will be allowed to see the exact Reaper composition. The base itself is also capable to orbit a black hole and survive. By studying how, we can get a tremendous boost in our understanding of the mass effect physics.

There is also a possibility of a few oculi and/or seeker swarms and/or husks hanging around, but I won't include that in my list because there is a possibility of them not being there. The Reaper creating machinery and technology able to counter forces created by a black hole is, however, definitely in the base. So yes, I am pretty much sure that we will find something if we keep it intact.

jedierick wrote...

The deathindoctorinatrion of the team is very relevent, especialy if you think that TIM is going to handle other missions like that. With the knowledge he had, he should have been better prepared. Sure the success of the mission is worth the risk, but he didnt prepare for anything, which says a lot.

Second, you are assuming that the base has data and machinery that could creat a reaper, we saw one hanging there, but we saw no machinary building it, again for all you know the collectros destroy every tool they use to make every part of the reaper, YOU DONT KNOW, it is an assumption. You have no way around that, logic says that there shoud be something, but you dont know for sure.

You dont know for sure what is in the base, if you do, tell me where, give me proof. Cause all I saw walking through the base was collecotrs, human blender tank things,, doors, husks, collectors, the human reaper, floating platforms, the communication device used to control the collectrs etc. Nothing that said on it, Acme reaper making machine.

So again, I say, no matter which side you choose, you are making assumptions,  for or agaisnt blowing the base, we are all making assumptions of what it could give us. TIm doesnt know everything on there, he is assuming there is stuff on there that can help him.

For God's sake...

I love how you avoided answering to that part where I said that the base has a technology which allows it to be near a black hole and not fall to pieces. Could you, please, answer that?

You can never be prepared for everything. Also I never denied that there is a possibility of the choice to preserve the base to backfire. I just said that it has lower possibility of happening than the alternative (success). If you want to know why, just read my previous posts.

The death of the team is still irrelevant as long as the project ends in success.

Once again, there IS at the very least a "black hole" technology, collector beam guns from the dead collectors (you can use as many as you can get) and dead husks just like anything else anorganic in that base (we can't indeed be sure if anything organic was left after the base was irradiated).

And last: no, we don't know whether there is ALL the technology used to build the reaper, but when we arrive at the base, part of the experiment is just in progress - a part which uses the "pods" which melt people - by studying them we can find out what was that goo pumped to the Reaper. Thanks to that we will at the very least be able to know a part of what actually compose a reaper and use it to our advantage.

So all in all yes, there IS useful technology in the base, unless you want to "dismiss" that the base is at the edge of a black hole.

Modifié par John Renegade, 24 juillet 2011 - 12:06 .

[Someone With Mass]

wiggles89 wrote...

And then there's Retribution, which is a reason why you shouldn't give him the base.

Why?

Because he's testing technology he has no clue about and didn't even attempt to research and explore on people for no better reason than revenge.

Not to mention that the books are constantly showing how Cerberus is manned by racist paramilitary extremists.

[Someone With Mass]

Saphra Deden wrote...

You can't know anything about the technology without experimenting with it and he didn't do it for revenge. He chose the subject of the experiment based on revenge, but the experiment would have occurred regardless.

Also, Cerberus already did know quite a lot about the technology. TIM even explains it to Grayson when he's being injected.

So it is clear that they've already studied in depth.

My 10 year old nephew could've figured out what injecting hostile nanites into a man's body would've accomplished.

And it's a little hard to get readings when the subject is tearing your facility apart, isn't it?

[John Renegade]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

You can't know anything about the technology without experimenting with it and he didn't do it for revenge. He chose the subject of the experiment based on revenge, but the experiment would have occurred regardless.

Also, Cerberus already did know quite a lot about the technology. TIM even explains it to Grayson when he's being injected.

So it is clear that they've already studied in depth.

My 10 year old nephew could've figured out what injecting hostile nanites into a man's body would've accomplished.

And it's a little hard to get readings when the subject is tearing your facility apart, isn't it?

"Facility being torn apart" wouldn't have occurred were it not for the intervention of the turians => it was Anderson's and Sanders's fault.

When you see a critically wounded patient in a hospital and decide to fight your way through the doctors (and killing them in the process) to the patient and subsequently kill him, is his death fault of the doctors, or your own?
The doctors were obviously able to handle the patient until then - they had the equipment and experience - but even a white house couldn't successfully repel all of the potential attacks on it, let alone a hospital.

Modifié par John Renegade, 24 juillet 2011 - 12:39 .

[Someone With Mass]

Saphra Deden wrote...

I'm glad you have someone your own age to play with.

Hehe...go ahead with your petty insults.

At least he is above the average IQ of this forum's members, who are clearly mentally challenged by a door.

Modifié par Someone With Mass, 24 juillet 2011 - 01:41 .

[John Renegade]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

I'm glad you have someone your own age to play with.

Hehe...go ahead with your petty insults.

At least he is above the average IQ of this forum's members, who are clearly mentally challenged by a door.

*sigh*

[ArcticFox]

I wish there had been an option for Shepard to search the base immediately after the final battle to find something valuable, and THEN blow it up, so that he could perhaps gain something valuable and deny TIM at the same time.

I think this is one of the choices that shouldn't have been pigeonholed into Paragon and Renegade though, by making the blow-up of the base a Paragon choice, Bioware are basically telling us that TIM is evil, even though TIM had always been in the grey as far as morality was concerned.

I just hope this choice doesn't get overly trivialized in ME3.

[jedierick]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
It's a SHIPYARD. It has a REAPER CORPSE in it.

Your claims and assumptions are redicolous. It's like saiyng if I take over a Toyota factory, I won't get any information on how the cars are built. the Repars mechanical components had to be built. they didn't jsut spring into existence on their own!

Again you are assuming there is more than one ship on the collector base, we destoryed one, you dont know that there is another, there is no way of knowing for sure. They say in game that one ship was enough to capture the entirepopulation earth, so I dont see a need for another. Also, if somone made it through the relay, why woudl the collectors, or a reaper controlling a collector only send one ship out, they shoudl send an entire fleet of those ships if they existed, but they didnt so it is logical to assume(yes I assume as well) that there is only one collector ship.

There is nothing we would gain from the blown to bits reaper corpse in the base that we didnt get from sovereign on the citidel, or we didnt get from the derelict reaper. We already knew it was made of humans, and they used ground up humans to power or build the thing. Your toyota example is thinking like a human, we know nothing beyond what the game told us and there wasnt anything but humans said to be used to build the reaper, so again, any ideas you would have about machinary woud be assumptions,you dont know how a tech being that is trillions of years old would go about creating offspring or additional reapers. Show me the proof from the game that there was some sort of machinary used to create it, there wasnt, we only got pieces of the puzzle. Collectors built it using humans, thats about all we know. You can guess all you want but unless there is a point int he game where it shows machinary being used to build the reaper, your assuming, period, logical assuming or not, your assuming.

[CuseGirl]

jedierick wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
It's a SHIPYARD. It has a REAPER CORPSE in it.

Your claims and assumptions are redicolous. It's like saiyng if I take over a Toyota factory, I won't get any information on how the cars are built. the Repars mechanical components had to be built. they didn't jsut spring into existence on their own!

Again you are assuming there is more than one ship on the collector base, we destoryed one, you dont know that there is another, there is no way of knowing for sure. They say in game that one ship was enough to capture the entirepopulation earth, so I dont see a need for another. Also, if somone made it through the relay, why woudl the collectors, or a reaper controlling a collector only send one ship out, they shoudl send an entire fleet of those ships if they existed, but they didnt so it is logical to assume(yes I assume as well) that there is only one collector ship.

There is nothing we would gain from the blown to bits reaper corpse in the base that we didnt get from sovereign on the citidel, or we didnt get from the derelict reaper. We already knew it was made of humans, and they used ground up humans to power or build the thing. Your toyota example is thinking like a human, we know nothing beyond what the game told us and there wasnt anything but humans said to be used to build the reaper, so again, any ideas you would have about machinary woud be assumptions,you dont know how a tech being that is trillions of years old would go about creating offspring or additional reapers. Show me the proof from the game that there was some sort of machinary used to create it, there wasnt, we only got pieces of the puzzle. Collectors built it using humans, thats about all we know. You can guess all you want but unless there is a point int he game where it shows machinary being used to build the reaper, your assuming, period, logical assuming or not, your assuming.

The way I see it is BioWare wouldn't create a story where the only way humanity could win is if they kept the Collector base. That makes no sense. For both sides of the argument, none of us can say "the ONLY decision was to keep/blow-up the base". In particular for the Renegade option, it's crazy to say "you MUST keep the base, it's obvious", when it's more obvious that TiM cannot be trusted with fully intact Reaper technology used to liquify humanoid beings.

[jedierick]

John Renegade wrote...

For God's sake...

I love how you avoided answering to that part where I said that the base has a technology which allows it to be near a black hole and not fall to pieces. Could you, please, answer that?

You can never be prepared for everything. Also I never denied that there is a possibility of the choice to preserve the base to backfire. I just said that it has lower possibility of happening than the alternative (success). If you want to know why, just read my previous posts.

The death of the team is still irrelevant as long as the project ends in success.

Once again, there IS at the very least a "black hole" technology, collector beam guns from the dead collectors (you can use as many as you can get) and dead husks just like anything else anorganic in that base (we can't indeed be sure if anything organic was left after the base was irradiated).

And last: no, we don't know whether there is ALL the technology used to build the reaper, but when we arrive at the base, part of the experiment is just in progress - a part which uses the "pods" which melt people - by studying them we can find out what was that goo pumped to the Reaper. Thanks to that we will at the very least be able to know a part of what actually compose a reaper and use it to our advantage.

So all in all yes, there IS useful technology in the base, unless you want to "dismiss" that the base is at the edge of a black hole.

Dude you have avoided some of my questions as well, dont go there.

I might be wrong but I thought it was mentioned in the game that it was a mass effect field, same thing that kept the derelict reaper stable or alive in the unstable star. So I can easily dismiss it as something we alrady know about.

We have those pods used to melt down the humans left on the planet Horizon, so I dont need that from the collectors ship either. I can get the info I need from those from the ones left on Horizon.

I dont need any info on the  destoryed collectors ship weapons, I already know the normandy survived those, so I am OK. Anbd I already know there are weapons that are able to defeat reapers already in existance, so I am good there as well.

Modifié par jedierick, 24 juillet 2011 - 10:11 .

[CuseGirl]

ArcticFox wrote...

I wish there had been an option for Shepard to search the base immediately after the final battle to find something valuable, and THEN blow it up, so that he could perhaps gain something valuable and deny TIM at the same time.

I think this is one of the choices that shouldn't have been pigeonholed into Paragon and Renegade though, by making the blow-up of the base a Paragon choice, Bioware are basically telling us that TIM is evil, even though TIM had always been in the grey as far as morality was concerned.

I just hope this choice doesn't get overly trivialized in ME3.

I think it'll be a matter of short term and long term. In the long run, I think blowing up the base is the best choice. Renegade choices TEND to be "shoot first, ask questions later" or "get mine while I can get it" type choices. Keeping the base may help early on the game but it's not the Reapers are stupid, they'll adjust.

We dont even know if the Human Reaper was the first, second, or 30th human reaper they had built. That might not have been prototype. Because it seems pretty clear that not having that human reaper wouldn't have stopped the invasion anyway.

Modifié par CuseGirl, 24 juillet 2011 - 10:14 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

jedierick wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
It's a SHIPYARD. It has a REAPER CORPSE in it.

Your claims and assumptions are redicolous. It's like saiyng if I take over a Toyota factory, I won't get any information on how the cars are built. the Repars mechanical components had to be built. they didn't jsut spring into existence on their own!

Again you are assuming there is more than one ship on the collector base, we destoryed one, you dont know that there is another, there is no way of knowing for sure. They say in game that one ship was enough to capture the entirepopulation earth, so I dont see a need for another. Also, if somone made it through the relay, why woudl the collectors, or a reaper controlling a collector only send one ship out, they shoudl send an entire fleet of those ships if they existed, but they didnt so it is logical to assume(yes I assume as well) that there is only one collector ship.

There is nothing we would gain from the blown to bits reaper corpse in the base that we didnt get from sovereign on the citidel, or we didnt get from the derelict reaper. We already knew it was made of humans, and they used ground up humans to power or build the thing. Your toyota example is thinking like a human, we know nothing beyond what the game told us and there wasnt anything but humans said to be used to build the reaper, so again, any ideas you would have about machinary woud be assumptions,you dont know how a tech being that is trillions of years old would go about creating offspring or additional reapers. Show me the proof from the game that there was some sort of machinary used to create it, there wasnt, we only got pieces of the puzzle. Collectors built it using humans, thats about all we know. You can guess all you want but unless there is a point int he game where it shows machinary being used to build the reaper, your assuming, period, logical assuming or not, your assuming.

The reaper at the collector base is far from completely destroyed... It's "dead" but ther'es more then enough remains. It wasn't hit with capital-grade mass accelerators..Shep shot him in the head.

And again - how do you know what we would or would not get? What one gets depends on which parts are damaged and which are salagable, and hte "baby-reaper"  was left in a better shape than the other two. Not to mention it's a brand new reaper.

The baby repaer is made of human goo AND mechanical parts. This much is obvious.
Your assumptions are so far-fetched they border on fairy tales! And I see you avoid answering my other questions.

If you don't kow how much is in the base - why destroy it?
Save what little dignity you have left and capitulate.

[CuseGirl]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

The reaper at the collector base is far from completely destroyed... It's "dead" but ther'es more then enough remains. It wasn't hit with capital-grade mass accelerators..Shep shot him in the head.

And again - how do you know what we would or would not get? What one gets depends on which parts are damaged and which are salagable, and hte "baby-reaper"  was left in a better shape than the other two. Not to mention it's a brand new reaper.

The baby repaer is made of human goo AND mechanical parts. This much is obvious.
Your assumptions are so far-fetched they border on fairy tales! And I see you avoid answering my other questions.

If you don't kow how much is in the base - why destroy it?
Save what little dignity you have left and capitulate.

lollll....why can't you fathom that the Collector ship would probably lead to more strife? Strife brought on by ANOTHER Cerberus screwup or rogue operation? 

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

Well,the decision only affects yourself,so if I chose blowing it up to see an epic explosion and to stick it to TIM so be it,if it bites me in the ass in the end,so be it.Point is they gave millions of people 2 choices,so it's not a surprise both options would be chosen,neither is "wrong" they just follow different ideals,no need for the hostility people.

[Darth Death]

Wow, a lot of text flying around here. Why is this topic so controversial? Can't there be a general consensus by now?

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

Darth Death wrote...

Wow, a lot of text flying around here. Why is this topic so controversial? Can't there be a general consensus by now?

General consensus is "I'm right you're wrong." or so it seems:bandit: