1939 réponses à ce sujet

[Sundance31us]

Sure Shepard destroyed the human Reaper and captured the Collector base, but then turned around and gave it to the Reapers via their indoctrinated minions.

I seriously doubt Shepard and crew are going to reap the benefits of any captured technology; those Cerberus goons on the other hand will.

[Sundance31us]

wiggles89 wrote...
If you're metagaming then, yeah, sure, it might be relevant.

True.

Saphra Deden wrote...
That article is crap. You shouldn't put any stock in anything it says. Their section on Retribution is a good example.

Haven't finished reading the comics and have yet to read the books.

[jedierick]

[quote]Lotion Soronnar wrote...


And again avoiding the issue. You know the base could (and there's a HIGH probabiltiy it has) technology and data that can be used agaisnt them. You know the reapers are coming, and that the galaxy as it is just isn't ready for them. And yet you decide to blow up the base...and then call it smart???[quote]

Ok so there is a high probability there is tech and data that can help, lets say we hand it over to Cerberus. One thing that makes this bad, is if Cerberus gets indoctorinated, and is as big as you say they are, then not only do we have to worry abotu the reapers, but we have to worry about cerberus as well. So while having the end of the galaxy coming with the reapers is bad, dont make it worse by handing something over to cerberus that will speed things up or make it harder to focus on the real threat.

Fairy tale thing again, listen, brining someone back from the dead pretty much opens up anything for consideration, if you cannot see past that then that says more about you than me.

Moving on, have fun with your fruit.

[Lotion Soronarr]

[quote]jedierick wrote...

[quote]Lotion Soronnar wrote...


And again avoiding the issue. You know the base could (and there's a HIGH probabiltiy it has) technology and data that can be used agaisnt them. You know the reapers are coming, and that the galaxy as it is just isn't ready for them. And yet you decide to blow up the base...and then call it smart???[quote]

Ok so there is a high probability there is tech and data that can help, lets say we hand it over to Cerberus. One thing that makes this bad, is if Cerberus gets indoctorinated, and is as big as you say they are, then not only do we have to worry abotu the reapers, but we have to worry about cerberus as well. So while having the end of the galaxy coming with the reapers is bad, dont make it worse by handing something over to cerberus that will speed things up or make it harder to focus on the real threat.

Fairy tale thing again, listen, brining someone back from the dead pretty much opens up anything for consideration, if you cannot see past that then that says more about you than me.

Moving on, have fun with your fruit.
[/quote]


Anyone can possibly get indoctrianted. What is your solution? Never study any reaper tech? Again, not an option. The galaxy would have been doomed already if no one studied reapaer tech.

Cerberus indoctrinated? Pitifull problem, compared to the reaper invasion. It's like adding a drop of oil in an already blazing inferno. Won't change your chances significantly.
However getting tech from that base, might up your chances of survival significantly.

It's a classic example of the risk being negligble comapred to the potential benefit.

You might want to consider looking up proper logic before entering a debate.

[jedierick]

[quote]Lotion Soronnar wrote...

[quote]jedierick wrote...

[quote]Lotion Soronnar wrote...


And again avoiding the issue. You know the base could (and there's a HIGH probabiltiy it has) technology and data that can be used agaisnt them. You know the reapers are coming, and that the galaxy as it is just isn't ready for them. And yet you decide to blow up the base...and then call it smart???[quote]

Ok so there is a high probability there is tech and data that can help, lets say we hand it over to Cerberus. One thing that makes this bad, is if Cerberus gets indoctorinated, and is as big as you say they are, then not only do we have to worry abotu the reapers, but we have to worry about cerberus as well. So while having the end of the galaxy coming with the reapers is bad, dont make it worse by handing something over to cerberus that will speed things up or make it harder to focus on the real threat.

Fairy tale thing again, listen, brining someone back from the dead pretty much opens up anything for consideration, if you cannot see past that then that says more about you than me.

Moving on, have fun with your fruit.
[/quote]


Anyone can possibly get indoctrianted. What is your solution? Never study any reaper tech? Again, not an option. The galaxy would have been doomed already if no one studied reapaer tech.

Cerberus indoctrinated? Pitifull problem, compared to the reaper invasion. It's like adding a drop of oil in an already blazing inferno. Won't change your chances significantly.
However getting tech from that base, might up your chances of survival significantly.

It's a classic example of the risk being negligble comapred to the potential benefit.

You might want to consider looking up proper logic before entering a debate.
[/quote]


Cerberus indoctorinated is not a pitiful problem, it adds more problems to an already bad situation, I want to focus on the reapers, not have to worry about Cerberus as well. By risking the chance that Cerberus could be indoctorninated,  I risk not being able to focus on the problem at hand, which is the reapers.

So if I give the base to TIM, and Cerberus gets indoctorniated, then I have to deal with a indoctorinated cerberus organization, them coming after me while under the control of the reapers. A lot worse than A)Cerberus just wanting to come after me as Cerberus, and Cerberus being mad that I didnt give them the base bt still working with me.

I know what proper logic is, your problem is that  you think anything outside your statements is illogical. Get over yourself. 

[John Renegade]

jedierick wrote...

John Renegade wrote...

For God's sake...

I love how you avoided answering to that part where I said that the base has a technology which allows it to be near a black hole and not fall to pieces. Could you, please, answer that?

You can never be prepared for everything. Also I never denied that there is a possibility of the choice to preserve the base to backfire. I just said that it has lower possibility of happening than the alternative (success). If you want to know why, just read my previous posts.

The death of the team is still irrelevant as long as the project ends in success.

Once again, there IS at the very least a "black hole" technology, collector beam guns from the dead collectors (you can use as many as you can get) and dead husks just like anything else anorganic in that base (we can't indeed be sure if anything organic was left after the base was irradiated).

And last: no, we don't know whether there is ALL the technology used to build the reaper, but when we arrive at the base, part of the experiment is just in progress - a part which uses the "pods" which melt people - by studying them we can find out what was that goo pumped to the Reaper. Thanks to that we will at the very least be able to know a part of what actually compose a reaper and use it to our advantage.

So all in all yes, there IS useful technology in the base, unless you want to "dismiss" that the base is at the edge of a black hole.

Dude you have avoided some of my questions as well, dont go there.

I might be wrong but I thought it was mentioned in the game that it was a mass effect field, same thing that kept the derelict reaper stable or alive in the unstable star. So I can easily dismiss it as something we alrady know about.

We have those pods used to melt down the humans left on the planet Horizon, so I dont need that from the collectors ship either. I can get the info I need from those from the ones left on Horizon.

I dont need any info on the  destoryed collectors ship weapons, I already know the normandy survived those, so I am OK. Anbd I already know there are weapons that are able to defeat reapers already in existance, so I am good there as well.

Look, even IF almost everything (the weapons, the pods,...) was as you say, that "black hole" issue still remains. There is NO OTHER DEVICE in the known galaxy, which is capable of doing what that base does. Shepard says it himself after the Collector ship mission: "We know what the Collector's masters are capable of". Nobody wants to believe that something like that base could exist in the galactic core, which means that nobody has encoutered technology like it before.

So you say we already have that technology? That's like saying that since we discovered electricity, we'll always have enough of it. Today, the opposite is true. So no, we are capable of creating mass effect fields, but in no way mass effect fields as strong as those around that base - because we don't have that technology.

If I haven't answered something, I maybe overlooked some of the your technology arguments, which I just, as long as it doesn't have anything to do with the "black hole" issue, just made completely irrelevant.

[John Renegade]

Double post.

Modifié par John Renegade, 25 juillet 2011 - 05:55 .

[jedierick]

John Renegade wrote...

jedierick wrote...

John Renegade wrote...

For God's sake...

I love how you avoided answering to that part where I said that the base has a technology which allows it to be near a black hole and not fall to pieces. Could you, please, answer that?

You can never be prepared for everything. Also I never denied that there is a possibility of the choice to preserve the base to backfire. I just said that it has lower possibility of happening than the alternative (success). If you want to know why, just read my previous posts.

The death of the team is still irrelevant as long as the project ends in success.

Once again, there IS at the very least a "black hole" technology, collector beam guns from the dead collectors (you can use as many as you can get) and dead husks just like anything else anorganic in that base (we can't indeed be sure if anything organic was left after the base was irradiated).

And last: no, we don't know whether there is ALL the technology used to build the reaper, but when we arrive at the base, part of the experiment is just in progress - a part which uses the "pods" which melt people - by studying them we can find out what was that goo pumped to the Reaper. Thanks to that we will at the very least be able to know a part of what actually compose a reaper and use it to our advantage.

So all in all yes, there IS useful technology in the base, unless you want to "dismiss" that the base is at the edge of a black hole.

Dude you have avoided some of my questions as well, dont go there.

I might be wrong but I thought it was mentioned in the game that it was a mass effect field, same thing that kept the derelict reaper stable or alive in the unstable star. So I can easily dismiss it as something we alrady know about.

We have those pods used to melt down the humans left on the planet Horizon, so I dont need that from the collectors ship either. I can get the info I need from those from the ones left on Horizon.

I dont need any info on the  destoryed collectors ship weapons, I already know the normandy survived those, so I am OK. Anbd I already know there are weapons that are able to defeat reapers already in existance, so I am good there as well.

Look, even IF almost everything (the weapons, the pods,...) was as you say, that "black hole" issue still remains. There is NO OTHER DEVICE in the known galaxy, which is capable of doing what that base does. Shepard says it himself after the Collector ship mission: "We know what the Collector's masters are capable of". Nobody wants to believe that something like that base could exist in the galactic core, which means that nobody has encoutered technology like it before.

So you say we already have that technology? That's like saying that since we discovered electricity, we'll always have enough of it. Today, the opposite is true. So no, we are capable of creating mass effect fields, but in no way mass effect fields as strong as those around that base - because we don't have that technology.

If I haven't answered something, I maybe overlooked some of the your technology arguments, which I just, as long as it doesn't have anything to do with the "black hole" issue, just made completely irrelevant.

Why is the tech that allows a base to stay unharmed near a black hole going to be helpful in defeating the reapers?

[Kaiser Shepard]

jedierick wrote...

John Renegade wrote...

jedierick wrote...

John Renegade wrote...

For God's sake...

I love how you avoided answering to that part where I said that the base has a technology which allows it to be near a black hole and not fall to pieces. Could you, please, answer that?

You can never be prepared for everything. Also I never denied that there is a possibility of the choice to preserve the base to backfire. I just said that it has lower possibility of happening than the alternative (success). If you want to know why, just read my previous posts.

The death of the team is still irrelevant as long as the project ends in success.

Once again, there IS at the very least a "black hole" technology, collector beam guns from the dead collectors (you can use as many as you can get) and dead husks just like anything else anorganic in that base (we can't indeed be sure if anything organic was left after the base was irradiated).

And last: no, we don't know whether there is ALL the technology used to build the reaper, but when we arrive at the base, part of the experiment is just in progress - a part which uses the "pods" which melt people - by studying them we can find out what was that goo pumped to the Reaper. Thanks to that we will at the very least be able to know a part of what actually compose a reaper and use it to our advantage.

So all in all yes, there IS useful technology in the base, unless you want to "dismiss" that the base is at the edge of a black hole.

Dude you have avoided some of my questions as well, dont go there.

I might be wrong but I thought it was mentioned in the game that it was a mass effect field, same thing that kept the derelict reaper stable or alive in the unstable star. So I can easily dismiss it as something we alrady know about.

We have those pods used to melt down the humans left on the planet Horizon, so I dont need that from the collectors ship either. I can get the info I need from those from the ones left on Horizon.

I dont need any info on the  destoryed collectors ship weapons, I already know the normandy survived those, so I am OK. Anbd I already know there are weapons that are able to defeat reapers already in existance, so I am good there as well.

Look, even IF almost everything (the weapons, the pods,...) was as you say, that "black hole" issue still remains. There is NO OTHER DEVICE in the known galaxy, which is capable of doing what that base does. Shepard says it himself after the Collector ship mission: "We know what the Collector's masters are capable of". Nobody wants to believe that something like that base could exist in the galactic core, which means that nobody has encoutered technology like it before.

So you say we already have that technology? That's like saying that since we discovered electricity, we'll always have enough of it. Today, the opposite is true. So no, we are capable of creating mass effect fields, but in no way mass effect fields as strong as those around that base - because we don't have that technology.

If I haven't answered something, I maybe overlooked some of the your technology arguments, which I just, as long as it doesn't have anything to do with the "black hole" issue, just made completely irrelevant.

Why is the tech that allows a base to stay unharmed near a black hole going to be helpful in defeating the reapers?

The same way America also managed to use what would otherwise be a mere source of energy as a weapon of mass destruction? Technology can be applied in more than one way.

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

jedierick wrote...

John Renegade wrote...

jedierick wrote...

John Renegade wrote...

For God's sake...

I love how you avoided answering to that part where I said that the base has a technology which allows it to be near a black hole and not fall to pieces. Could you, please, answer that?

You can never be prepared for everything. Also I never denied that there is a possibility of the choice to preserve the base to backfire. I just said that it has lower possibility of happening than the alternative (success). If you want to know why, just read my previous posts.

The death of the team is still irrelevant as long as the project ends in success.

Once again, there IS at the very least a "black hole" technology, collector beam guns from the dead collectors (you can use as many as you can get) and dead husks just like anything else anorganic in that base (we can't indeed be sure if anything organic was left after the base was irradiated).

And last: no, we don't know whether there is ALL the technology used to build the reaper, but when we arrive at the base, part of the experiment is just in progress - a part which uses the "pods" which melt people - by studying them we can find out what was that goo pumped to the Reaper. Thanks to that we will at the very least be able to know a part of what actually compose a reaper and use it to our advantage.

So all in all yes, there IS useful technology in the base, unless you want to "dismiss" that the base is at the edge of a black hole.

Dude you have avoided some of my questions as well, dont go there.

I might be wrong but I thought it was mentioned in the game that it was a mass effect field, same thing that kept the derelict reaper stable or alive in the unstable star. So I can easily dismiss it as something we alrady know about.

We have those pods used to melt down the humans left on the planet Horizon, so I dont need that from the collectors ship either. I can get the info I need from those from the ones left on Horizon.

I dont need any info on the  destoryed collectors ship weapons, I already know the normandy survived those, so I am OK. Anbd I already know there are weapons that are able to defeat reapers already in existance, so I am good there as well.

Look, even IF almost everything (the weapons, the pods,...) was as you say, that "black hole" issue still remains. There is NO OTHER DEVICE in the known galaxy, which is capable of doing what that base does. Shepard says it himself after the Collector ship mission: "We know what the Collector's masters are capable of". Nobody wants to believe that something like that base could exist in the galactic core, which means that nobody has encoutered technology like it before.

So you say we already have that technology? That's like saying that since we discovered electricity, we'll always have enough of it. Today, the opposite is true. So no, we are capable of creating mass effect fields, but in no way mass effect fields as strong as those around that base - because we don't have that technology.

If I haven't answered something, I maybe overlooked some of the your technology arguments, which I just, as long as it doesn't have anything to do with the "black hole" issue, just made completely irrelevant.

Why is the tech that allows a base to stay unharmed near a black hole going to be helpful in defeating the reapers?

The black hole thing is powerful mass effect fields ,pay attention to the game

Modifié par Humanoid_Typhoon, 25 juillet 2011 - 06:18 .

[jedierick]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

jedierick wrote...

John Renegade wrote...

jedierick wrote...

John Renegade wrote...

For God's sake...

I love how you avoided answering to that part where I said that the base has a technology which allows it to be near a black hole and not fall to pieces. Could you, please, answer that?

You can never be prepared for everything. Also I never denied that there is a possibility of the choice to preserve the base to backfire. I just said that it has lower possibility of happening than the alternative (success). If you want to know why, just read my previous posts.

The death of the team is still irrelevant as long as the project ends in success.

Once again, there IS at the very least a "black hole" technology, collector beam guns from the dead collectors (you can use as many as you can get) and dead husks just like anything else anorganic in that base (we can't indeed be sure if anything organic was left after the base was irradiated).

And last: no, we don't know whether there is ALL the technology used to build the reaper, but when we arrive at the base, part of the experiment is just in progress - a part which uses the "pods" which melt people - by studying them we can find out what was that goo pumped to the Reaper. Thanks to that we will at the very least be able to know a part of what actually compose a reaper and use it to our advantage.

So all in all yes, there IS useful technology in the base, unless you want to "dismiss" that the base is at the edge of a black hole.

Dude you have avoided some of my questions as well, dont go there.

I might be wrong but I thought it was mentioned in the game that it was a mass effect field, same thing that kept the derelict reaper stable or alive in the unstable star. So I can easily dismiss it as something we alrady know about.

We have those pods used to melt down the humans left on the planet Horizon, so I dont need that from the collectors ship either. I can get the info I need from those from the ones left on Horizon.

I dont need any info on the  destoryed collectors ship weapons, I already know the normandy survived those, so I am OK. Anbd I already know there are weapons that are able to defeat reapers already in existance, so I am good there as well.

Look, even IF almost everything (the weapons, the pods,...) was as you say, that "black hole" issue still remains. There is NO OTHER DEVICE in the known galaxy, which is capable of doing what that base does. Shepard says it himself after the Collector ship mission: "We know what the Collector's masters are capable of". Nobody wants to believe that something like that base could exist in the galactic core, which means that nobody has encoutered technology like it before.

So you say we already have that technology? That's like saying that since we discovered electricity, we'll always have enough of it. Today, the opposite is true. So no, we are capable of creating mass effect fields, but in no way mass effect fields as strong as those around that base - because we don't have that technology.

If I haven't answered something, I maybe overlooked some of the your technology arguments, which I just, as long as it doesn't have anything to do with the "black hole" issue, just made completely irrelevant.

Why is the tech that allows a base to stay unharmed near a black hole going to be helpful in defeating the reapers?

The black hole thing is powerful mass effect fields ,pay attention to the game

I already know it is a mass effect field, read earlier comments. This tech is tech we already know about, we know how to make mass effect fields. My questiion was how does the tech off the base help defeat the reapers. We already know about mass effect fields.

[jedierick]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

jedierick wrote...

John Renegade wrote...

jedierick wrote...

John Renegade wrote...

For God's sake...

I love how you avoided answering to that part where I said that the base has a technology which allows it to be near a black hole and not fall to pieces. Could you, please, answer that?

You can never be prepared for everything. Also I never denied that there is a possibility of the choice to preserve the base to backfire. I just said that it has lower possibility of happening than the alternative (success). If you want to know why, just read my previous posts.

The death of the team is still irrelevant as long as the project ends in success.

Once again, there IS at the very least a "black hole" technology, collector beam guns from the dead collectors (you can use as many as you can get) and dead husks just like anything else anorganic in that base (we can't indeed be sure if anything organic was left after the base was irradiated).

And last: no, we don't know whether there is ALL the technology used to build the reaper, but when we arrive at the base, part of the experiment is just in progress - a part which uses the "pods" which melt people - by studying them we can find out what was that goo pumped to the Reaper. Thanks to that we will at the very least be able to know a part of what actually compose a reaper and use it to our advantage.

So all in all yes, there IS useful technology in the base, unless you want to "dismiss" that the base is at the edge of a black hole.

Dude you have avoided some of my questions as well, dont go there.

I might be wrong but I thought it was mentioned in the game that it was a mass effect field, same thing that kept the derelict reaper stable or alive in the unstable star. So I can easily dismiss it as something we alrady know about.

We have those pods used to melt down the humans left on the planet Horizon, so I dont need that from the collectors ship either. I can get the info I need from those from the ones left on Horizon.

I dont need any info on the  destoryed collectors ship weapons, I already know the normandy survived those, so I am OK. Anbd I already know there are weapons that are able to defeat reapers already in existance, so I am good there as well.

Look, even IF almost everything (the weapons, the pods,...) was as you say, that "black hole" issue still remains. There is NO OTHER DEVICE in the known galaxy, which is capable of doing what that base does. Shepard says it himself after the Collector ship mission: "We know what the Collector's masters are capable of". Nobody wants to believe that something like that base could exist in the galactic core, which means that nobody has encoutered technology like it before.

So you say we already have that technology? That's like saying that since we discovered electricity, we'll always have enough of it. Today, the opposite is true. So no, we are capable of creating mass effect fields, but in no way mass effect fields as strong as those around that base - because we don't have that technology.

If I haven't answered something, I maybe overlooked some of the your technology arguments, which I just, as long as it doesn't have anything to do with the "black hole" issue, just made completely irrelevant.

Why is the tech that allows a base to stay unharmed near a black hole going to be helpful in defeating the reapers?

The black hole thing is powerful mass effect fields ,pay attention to the game

Again, we have weapons that utulize this technology already, how will it help defeat the reapers?

[John Renegade]

jedierick wrote...

Cerberus indoctorinated is not a pitiful problem, it adds more problems to an already bad situation, I want to focus on the reapers, not have to worry about Cerberus as well. By risking the chance that Cerberus could be indoctorninated,  I risk not being able to focus on the problem at hand, which is the reapers.

So if I give the base to TIM, and Cerberus gets indoctorniated, then I have to deal with a indoctorinated cerberus organization, them coming after me while under the control of the reapers. A lot worse than A)Cerberus just wanting to come after me as Cerberus, and Cerberus being mad that I didnt give them the base bt still working with me.

I know what proper logic is, your problem is that  you think anything outside your statements is illogical. Get over yourself. 

Well you KNOW there is some useful technology in that base (see my recent post), and you know that you will make something useful out of it (all of that is a fact), if the project ends up as success - a possibility. These are both positives for keeping the base. The negative is possible indoctrination of a team and consequences of it - a possibility. As I mentioned before, based on what happened before, the success has bigger chance of happening that indoctrination (failure).

Because of that, there are three possible outcomes - one and two depending on whether or not you decide to destroy or preserve the base. If you destroy the base than you know that you won't get anything and that no one is going to get indoctrinated. This is a 0 - 0 value - completely neutral. Now,  whether you say that the choice comes down to personal preference and that the choice basically doesn't matter or you say that destruction is better, you are wrong. If you preserve the base, you can either have an indoctrination or a success outcome, but here you know, that the latter has a higher possibility of happening. 0 - 1 has a higher chance of happening that 1 - 0, which means that the choice to preserve is more positive than the choice to destroy.

In other words:

Destroy:             1.       Value: 0
                            2. a)  Value  0 - 1 - LOCKED
                                  Value  1 - 0 - LOCKED

                            OUTCOME: 0 - probability 100%

Preserve:          1.        Value: 0 - LOCKED
                           2. a)    Value 0 - 1 (higher than b - let's say 72%)
                                   Value 1 - 0 (lower than a -  let's say 38%)

                           OUTCOME:  1)   1 - probability 72%
                                              or 2) -1 - probability  38%

If it was:     Destroy: 0 - 100%

                   Preserve:1 - 50%
                                    0 - 50%

than the choice wouldnt matter. Whether you are safe (0) or you choose to risk (1: 50% or -1: 50%), you still have the overall result 0. But if the success value has a higher chance of happening than the indoctrination value, the choice to preserve the base is already better (bigger chance of the positive outcome than the negative one).

P.S.: I know that in some eyes the success and indoctrination are independent, I took the positive values a a result of a "success with no negative value or a success where the positive value (the results of the success itself) outweighted the negative value (for example Shepard's endeavor and lost time while retrieving the project data), which still made it overall a positive value. So in this case the indoctrination would be a negative value in the overall positive one.

P.P.S.: Also, statistically, in the past was Shepard most of the time doing non- mission critical stuff rather than mission critical stuff, so the propability of a situation in the future, when Shepard would be doing the technology retrieval from the base in the case of the team indoctrination on the expense of some mission critical work is statistically lower than that he would be doing only some sidequest. And that is if you won't take into account that after the suicide mission shepard doesn't have really anything to do.

P.P.P.S.: Because the technology is critical to defeating the Reapers, the potential technology retrieval should be classified as mission critical, which means it would have a priority over future potential sidequests.

Modifié par John Renegade, 25 juillet 2011 - 07:04 .

[John Renegade]

jedierick wrote...

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

jedierick wrote...

John Renegade wrote...

jedierick wrote...

John Renegade wrote...

For God's sake...

I love how you avoided answering to that part where I said that the base has a technology which allows it to be near a black hole and not fall to pieces. Could you, please, answer that?

You can never be prepared for everything. Also I never denied that there is a possibility of the choice to preserve the base to backfire. I just said that it has lower possibility of happening than the alternative (success). If you want to know why, just read my previous posts.

The death of the team is still irrelevant as long as the project ends in success.

Once again, there IS at the very least a "black hole" technology, collector beam guns from the dead collectors (you can use as many as you can get) and dead husks just like anything else anorganic in that base (we can't indeed be sure if anything organic was left after the base was irradiated).

And last: no, we don't know whether there is ALL the technology used to build the reaper, but when we arrive at the base, part of the experiment is just in progress - a part which uses the "pods" which melt people - by studying them we can find out what was that goo pumped to the Reaper. Thanks to that we will at the very least be able to know a part of what actually compose a reaper and use it to our advantage.

So all in all yes, there IS useful technology in the base, unless you want to "dismiss" that the base is at the edge of a black hole.

Dude you have avoided some of my questions as well, dont go there.

I might be wrong but I thought it was mentioned in the game that it was a mass effect field, same thing that kept the derelict reaper stable or alive in the unstable star. So I can easily dismiss it as something we alrady know about.

We have those pods used to melt down the humans left on the planet Horizon, so I dont need that from the collectors ship either. I can get the info I need from those from the ones left on Horizon.

I dont need any info on the  destoryed collectors ship weapons, I already know the normandy survived those, so I am OK. Anbd I already know there are weapons that are able to defeat reapers already in existance, so I am good there as well.

Look, even IF almost everything (the weapons, the pods,...) was as you say, that "black hole" issue still remains. There is NO OTHER DEVICE in the known galaxy, which is capable of doing what that base does. Shepard says it himself after the Collector ship mission: "We know what the Collector's masters are capable of". Nobody wants to believe that something like that base could exist in the galactic core, which means that nobody has encoutered technology like it before.

So you say we already have that technology? That's like saying that since we discovered electricity, we'll always have enough of it. Today, the opposite is true. So no, we are capable of creating mass effect fields, but in no way mass effect fields as strong as those around that base - because we don't have that technology.

If I haven't answered something, I maybe overlooked some of the your technology arguments, which I just, as long as it doesn't have anything to do with the "black hole" issue, just made completely irrelevant.

Why is the tech that allows a base to stay unharmed near a black hole going to be helpful in defeating the reapers?

The black hole thing is powerful mass effect fields ,pay attention to the game

Again, we have weapons that utulize this technology already, how will it help defeat the reapers?

Which weapons utilize it? A real world example: you can use a flashlight with a standard battery, but you can't run a factory with the same battery. You need a stronger source of energy than that.

Now just replace "flashlight" with a "weak weapon", "factory" with a "strong weapon", and "energy" with "mass effect fields" and you will get a Mass Effect Universe equivalent.

Modifié par John Renegade, 25 juillet 2011 - 07:02 .

[CroGamer002]

Isn't it funny how person who posted this thread about this didn't even made that choice? Ever.

While those who made it just defend it wasn't pointless, while does who never did it or just find it stupid argue against.

[Mr. Gogeta34]

This is a pretty empty question... because the choice is only about what Shepard does... not what anyone else does after the fact.

[Lotion Soronarr]

jedierick wrote...

Cerberus indoctorinated is not a pitiful problem, it adds more problems to an already bad situation, I want to focus on the reapers, not have to worry about Cerberus as well. By risking the chance that Cerberus could be indoctorninated,  I risk not being able to focus on the problem at hand, which is the reapers.

So if I give the base to TIM, and Cerberus gets indoctorniated, then I have to deal with a indoctorinated cerberus organization, them coming after me while under the control of the reapers. A lot worse than A)Cerberus just wanting to come after me as Cerberus, and Cerberus being mad that I didnt give them the base bt still working with me.

I know what proper logic is, your problem is that  you think anything outside your statements is illogical. Get over yourself.

Compared to the Reapers? Yes, it is a pitifull problem. A bunch of cerberus troopers are insignificant threat level compared to an armada of sentient-super-staships with a husk army. Not to mention that what ever tech Cerberus obtains, you can steal it from them later.

Cerberus becoming indoctrinated doesn't change your survival odds significantly.
Loosing tech in the base, on the other hand, does.

And no, you don't know proper logic if you continue making redicolous statemetns and assumptions.

[jedierick]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

jedierick wrote...

Cerberus indoctorinated is not a pitiful problem, it adds more problems to an already bad situation, I want to focus on the reapers, not have to worry about Cerberus as well. By risking the chance that Cerberus could be indoctorninated,  I risk not being able to focus on the problem at hand, which is the reapers.

So if I give the base to TIM, and Cerberus gets indoctorniated, then I have to deal with a indoctorinated cerberus organization, them coming after me while under the control of the reapers. A lot worse than A)Cerberus just wanting to come after me as Cerberus, and Cerberus being mad that I didnt give them the base bt still working with me.

I know what proper logic is, your problem is that  you think anything outside your statements is illogical. Get over yourself.

Compared to the Reapers? Yes, it is a pitifull problem. A bunch of cerberus troopers are insignificant threat level compared to an armada of sentient-super-staships with a husk army. Not to mention that what ever tech Cerberus obtains, you can steal it from them later.

Cerberus becoming indoctrinated doesn't change your survival odds significantly.
Loosing tech in the base, on the other hand, does.

And no, you don't know proper logic if you continue making redicolous statemetns and assumptions.

1 - So your using improper logic.

2 - You avoided my point - I was nt making a comparison to the Reapers, I said that having to deal with an indoctorinated cerberus would be distracting from the real problem. Are you saying you dont mind dealing with Cerberus being indoctorinated on top of preparing for the coming of the reapers? Woudlnt surprise me with your monkey brain line of thinking .If cerberus gets indoctorninated, then there is a good chance the reapers will know what type of inofmration we got from the base and prepare for it, so it would be moot. Top that off, I dont want an organization like Cerberus being controlled by the reapers and using them to come after me. So I blow up the base to prevent this. 

Also saying that Cerberus being indoctoninated doesnt change my surviuval odds significantly is laughable, the organization who brought me back to life, gave me a ship and knows everything about everyone I am working with being in the hands of the reapers changes the odds significantly.

Modifié par jedierick, 25 juillet 2011 - 10:28 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

jedierick wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

jedierick wrote...

Cerberus indoctorinated is not a pitiful problem, it adds more problems to an already bad situation, I want to focus on the reapers, not have to worry about Cerberus as well. By risking the chance that Cerberus could be indoctorninated,  I risk not being able to focus on the problem at hand, which is the reapers.

So if I give the base to TIM, and Cerberus gets indoctorniated, then I have to deal with a indoctorinated cerberus organization, them coming after me while under the control of the reapers. A lot worse than A)Cerberus just wanting to come after me as Cerberus, and Cerberus being mad that I didnt give them the base bt still working with me.

I know what proper logic is, your problem is that  you think anything outside your statements is illogical. Get over yourself.

Compared to the Reapers? Yes, it is a pitifull problem. A bunch of cerberus troopers are insignificant threat level compared to an armada of sentient-super-staships with a husk army. Not to mention that what ever tech Cerberus obtains, you can steal it from them later.

Cerberus becoming indoctrinated doesn't change your survival odds significantly.
Loosing tech in the base, on the other hand, does.

And no, you don't know proper logic if you continue making redicolous statemetns and assumptions.

1 - So your using improper logic.

2 - You avoided my point - I was nt making a comparison to the Reapers, I said that having to deal with an indoctorinated cerberus would be distracting from the real problem. Are you saying you dont mind dealing with Cerberus being indoctorinated on top of preparing for the coming of the reapers? Woudlnt surprise me with your monkey brain line of thinking .If cerberus gets indoctorninated, then there is a good chance the reapers will know what type of inofmration we got from the base and prepare for it, so it would be moot. Top that off, I dont want an organization like Cerberus being controlled by the reapers and using them to come after me. So I blow up the base to prevent this. 

Also saying that Cerberus being indoctoninated doesnt change my surviuval odds significantly is laughable, the organization who brought me back to life, gave me a ship and knows everything about everyone I am working with being in the hands of the reapers changes the odds significantly.

Cost/Benefit analysis.. It all comes down to this.

When the Reaprs come, Shep is going to have all the races fighting with him (it's not like they have much choice). Cerberus is pittance compared to that. What assets do they have that cna drastily change the conflict? Most of it will be fought in space - Cerberus doens't have a navy.
On the ground, it doesn't have the numbers to pose a significant threat. And it still remains a lesser threat than even a single reaper.

The survival of the galaxy is at stake. Cerberus does have some info on Shep, but it hardly matter logicly. Shapes survival might become slightly more difficult - but hte knowledge gained could have the galaxy.
Galaxy surviving >>> Shep surviving.

Even assuming the worst possible scenario for the bease, it still pales compared to potential benefits.

Blowing up the base is utterly stupid wihout a backup plan. What is the backup plan? How do you plan to stop the reaprs? What ace in the sleeve do you have?... you don't have any.
The races of the galaxy don't have time to go hte slow and safe route. They don't have 20-100 years to research completley new tech. Tehy need help and answers now.


But I really gotta ask. If in-game you ran into Turains researching Sovereigns cannon (Thanix), would you blow up the base they are working in? Ya know..to prevent indoctrination? And having ot fight the tturians?

[jedierick]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

jedierick wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

jedierick wrote...

Cerberus indoctorinated is not a pitiful problem, it adds more problems to an already bad situation, I want to focus on the reapers, not have to worry about Cerberus as well. By risking the chance that Cerberus could be indoctorninated,  I risk not being able to focus on the problem at hand, which is the reapers.

So if I give the base to TIM, and Cerberus gets indoctorniated, then I have to deal with a indoctorinated cerberus organization, them coming after me while under the control of the reapers. A lot worse than A)Cerberus just wanting to come after me as Cerberus, and Cerberus being mad that I didnt give them the base bt still working with me.

I know what proper logic is, your problem is that  you think anything outside your statements is illogical. Get over yourself.

Compared to the Reapers? Yes, it is a pitifull problem. A bunch of cerberus troopers are insignificant threat level compared to an armada of sentient-super-staships with a husk army. Not to mention that what ever tech Cerberus obtains, you can steal it from them later.

Cerberus becoming indoctrinated doesn't change your survival odds significantly.
Loosing tech in the base, on the other hand, does.

And no, you don't know proper logic if you continue making redicolous statemetns and assumptions.

1 - So your using improper logic.

2 - You avoided my point - I was nt making a comparison to the Reapers, I said that having to deal with an indoctorinated cerberus would be distracting from the real problem. Are you saying you dont mind dealing with Cerberus being indoctorinated on top of preparing for the coming of the reapers? Woudlnt surprise me with your monkey brain line of thinking .If cerberus gets indoctorninated, then there is a good chance the reapers will know what type of inofmration we got from the base and prepare for it, so it would be moot. Top that off, I dont want an organization like Cerberus being controlled by the reapers and using them to come after me. So I blow up the base to prevent this. 

Also saying that Cerberus being indoctoninated doesnt change my surviuval odds significantly is laughable, the organization who brought me back to life, gave me a ship and knows everything about everyone I am working with being in the hands of the reapers changes the odds significantly.

Cost/Benefit analysis.. It all comes down to this.

When the Reaprs come, Shep is going to have all the races fighting with him (it's not like they have much choice). Cerberus is pittance compared to that. What assets do they have that cna drastily change the conflict? Most of it will be fought in space - Cerberus doens't have a navy.
On the ground, it doesn't have the numbers to pose a significant threat. And it still remains a lesser threat than even a single reaper.

The survival of the galaxy is at stake. Cerberus does have some info on Shep, but it hardly matter logicly. Shapes survival might become slightly more difficult - but hte knowledge gained could have the galaxy.
Galaxy surviving >>> Shep surviving.

Even assuming the worst possible scenario for the bease, it still pales compared to potential benefits.

Blowing up the base is utterly stupid wihout a backup plan. What is the backup plan? How do you plan to stop the reaprs? What ace in the sleeve do you have?... you don't have any.
The races of the galaxy don't have time to go hte slow and safe route. They don't have 20-100 years to research completley new tech. Tehy need help and answers now.


But I really gotta ask. If in-game you ran into Turains researching Sovereigns cannon (Thanix), would you blow up the base they are working in? Ya know..to prevent indoctrination? And having ot fight the tturians?

Wait a second, who says shepard is going to have the whole galaxy fighting with him? As far as we know, most of the galaxy doesnt think the reapers are real, based on what the council is telling everyone. I think your getting a little meta there. Logical to assume the whole galaxy will fight agaisnt the reapers once they know they are real, but who knows if Shepard will be dead at that point, or how the reapers will reveal themself to the galaxy.


If I came accross turians rsearching cannons based off of soveriegn, I woud not destory their base, they have not given me a reason to think they would get indoctorinated, Cerberus has already screwed up and given me a reason to think they would.. Also, soverign is no longer a risk, or the pieices that flew into the cititdel and were recovered would have ended up in indoctorination, sicne none of that has happended, I would alow the research and spare the base.

[Inverness Moon]

jedierick wrote...

If I came accross turians rsearching cannons based off of soveriegn, I woud not destory their base, they have not given me a reason to think they would get indoctorinated, Cerberus has already screwed up and given me a reason to think they would.. Also, soverign is no longer a risk, or the pieices that flew into the cititdel and were recovered would have ended up in indoctorination, sicne none of that has happended, I would alow the research and spare the base.

That is nonsense.

First of all, you don't know what causes indoctrination, so you can't go looking at reaper technology and claiming you determine whether or not what the turians acquired is safe to research. Whether or not that technology can indoctrinate has nothing to do with who is researching it. If you think the turians are incapable of screwing up then you're deluding yourself.

Secondly, you have no evidence that the pieces of Sovereign are no longer a risk. Again, you don't know what causes indoctrination so you can not say for certain even if the all that remains is debris from the ship.

Thirdly, you don't know whether or not the pieces recovered from the Citadel caused indoctrination or not. Nobody even knows where they all went. There is no way for Shepard to make such a determination.

Finally, EDI was developed using reaper technology salvaged from Sovereign. All indications point to that being a success just like with the turians' Thanix Cannon.