1939 réponses à ce sujet

[alperez]

[quote]Lotion Soronnar wrote...



I cannot argue your point WHEN I CAN'T UNDERSTAND IT.

Is this a comedy act? Write a coherent sentance, so that I cna parse it. Then I can reply properly.

WTF is this supposed to even mean?
[/quote]

Fine i'll work on my grammer, if you'll do the same and work on your spelling.


[quote]

???

[/quote]

Still harping on about a mistake i made, kudos apparently in the perfect world you live in mistakes are never made.

[quote]

I have all the evidence for that. Plus basic logic.
You keep taking about a tiny criminal organization taking over the whole universe. Never bothering not even for a second to think if it's even feasable and HOW.
[/quote]

Firstly your evidence is flawed because you base logic is skewed. Your entire rationale is based on the best possible outcome with no thoughts or regards to the worst one.

Secondly i've explained it countless times but you refuse to accept any explanation that doesn't conform to your view.

[quote]

So what is nevcessary to defeat the reapers? Let's hear your plan. Your better alternative.

[/quote]

I don't have a plan, none of us do, isn't that the point of me3?

You However seem to have covered everything with your not keeping the base dooms the galaxy plan, that somehow what's in the base is a so ultra important that anyone who destroys it, is making a fatal error.
[quote]



That's called gameplay and story segragation. You should look it up.
Cerberus has troops. But not nearly enough to even take over a single planet and hold it..let alone the whole galaxy.

And your honestly comparing a few specilized mecha with military warships?
You didn't even bother to reply to this properly.
Where will Cerberus get THE FLEET necessary for this? And Logistic support. And funding? And recruits. And everything else?
[/quote]

The whole point was that you have no bloody idea just what resources cerberus has or what tech they possess, your basing your argument on what EDI says, something which now looks like incorrect info.

If your wrong on that then your wrong on everything else.

You also have no idea just what type of other experimental equipment or what the effect of other experiments cerberus have been working on may have yielded.

In overlord we saw them trying to basically create something to control the geth, if this worked wouldn't that have given them access to the ships and manpower they may need.

[quote]

Because it has reaper tech in it that can be reverse-engineered. And knowledge. If a few bits of Soveregin can give us EDI and Thanix, then the base + reper corpse, by any sensible logic, should give us more.
[/quote]

By definition then with these greater rewards that may be available the risk would also inherently increase.

Something again which you convieniantly ignore in your sensible logic.

[quote]
It's not an auto-repear defeat bottun. Nor did I ever say it was. but it is a way to close the technological gap between us and possibly find weakneses. If those arne't good ways to resist the reapers, what is?

[/quote]

Really so the enitre thust of you argument thus far hasn't been not keeping the base dooms the galaxy.


[quote]
The mere fact that the potential negatives you mention are fantasy and have no basis in logic or facts is what I'm worried about.
I relay on logic and probablity, keeping in mind all possible outcomes. You..well I don't know what you're basing your decisions om, other than ignorance.

[/quote]

Once again your accusing me of leaps of fantasy and not basing anything in logic while at the same time ignoring every ounce of logic that shows your own view to be incorrect.

You say you rely on logic and probability and your keeping in mind all possible outcomes and yet the biggest single facet of you whole decision, is that you trust cerberus to do what's right. That any potential negative consequence will you hope be nullified by the postives, i'm the one taking a leap of fantasy, really?
[quote]

No. Sovereign + Geth took on the Citadel fleet. Which was comprised of cruisers + DA. The combined force of the citadel races is FAR greater than what was present at the Citadel.
But assuming you are right here, if sovereign can indeed take out everyone alone, doesn't that make the base even MORE worth keeping? Since that makes the repers even more impossible to stop?
[/quote]

Ok well considering that right up until you fight Saren it's sovereign and not the geth ships that's causing the majority of the damage, not to mention the arrival of hackett and the fleet does nothing to slow this down, i'd say one reaper could be extremely dangerous.

Secondly, once again you forget to mention that this scenario was part of a worst case scenario, one where you weren't dealing with a fully functional resistance,

Lastly, again your using your own logic to try and make it fit the circumstances, Lotion saves base therefore every scenario = needed the base for that one.

If your original logic regarding the base is flawed or proves to be incorrect then your whole argument falters, everything i've suggested has been in the circumstances of that being the case.

[quote]
Correct. Which means the probablity of repars raping the galaxy is 100%. And that is the probablity you should be concering yourself with.
[/quote]

Which is what i am doing by not opening a potential second front at my back and by not risking my potential allies to an organisation that may not have thier best interests at heart.


[quote]

[b]Yes. Not only will Cerberus also fight (on one side or antoher) - so it wil lbe weaker too, but Cerberus doesn't have an armada of warships nor millions of troops. It CAN'T take over the universe.

[/quote]

What cerberus may have in terms of resources is based on one piece of knowledge that you receive from EDI, a piece of knowledge that may very well be misinformation or incorrect.

What they will do once the reapers attack is something you need to be worried about, just because you believe they are with you it may not turn out that way and if it doesn't then you have strengthened a potential enemy.

Through Indoctrination, Experimental tech that we don't know about or whatever they gain from the base itself, they could have come up with an alternative to not having millions of troops or warships.

[jedierick]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

You arguments have been torn down..brutally I might add.

You just said I didn't have any,your idea of them being torn down is you putting your fingers in your ears and yelling "lalalalala cant hear you lalalala cant hear you",you keep pushing forth your opinion as fact.None of my arguments have been "torn down" you simply disagree and therefore it must be false.

Agreed, he does take that stance.

[Inverness Moon]

Someone With Mass wrote...

I've seen this "discussion", and "reasonable" is the last word I'd use to describe it.

It is more "I am always right, and you are always wrong". 

At least you recognize how you've behaved when it comes to the subject.

[Someone With Mass]

Inverness Moon wrote...
At least you recognize how you've behaved when it comes to the subject.

I don't respect flat out lies that are based on the opposite side's hard-on for the character in question and things that aren't even mentioned in the game, and are completely made up for the sake of convenience, I admit that.

[B.Shep]

Have you guys saw this?
www.newsarama.com/games/mac-walters-mass-effect-3-invasion-interview-110726.html

WTF is that??
Now Mac Walters is assuming Shepard gave the Collector's Base to TIM? So what was the point of making that the biggest decision from  ME2?

Sorry i am a bit pissed now after reading this...<_<

[alperez]

B.Shep wrote...

Have you guys saw this?
www.newsarama.com/games/mac-walters-mass-effect-3-invasion-interview-110726.html

WTF is that??
Now Mac Walters is assuming Shepard gave the Collector's Base to TIM? So what was the point of making that the biggest decision from  ME2?

Sorry i am a bit pissed now after reading this...<_<

Reading it exactly as he says it is does suggest it as you put it, however the perception from the book was that regardless of what you did, cerberus got their hands on the tech anyway.

So i'm hoping he's just para-phrasing it without going into detail and that what he means fits both scenarios.

Basically everything Shepard did lead to cerberus getting hold of the info/tech and they've created a base past the omega IV irrespective of whether or not you destroyed or kept the base, hope that makes sense.

[Someone With Mass]

They get their precious tech, so it doesn't really matter if I blow the ugly thing up, then.

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

alperez wrote...

B.Shep wrote...

Have you guys saw this?
www.newsarama.com/games/mac-walters-mass-effect-3-invasion-interview-110726.html

WTF is that??
Now Mac Walters is assuming Shepard gave the Collector's Base to TIM? So what was the point of making that the biggest decision from  ME2?

Sorry i am a bit pissed now after reading this...<_<

Reading it exactly as he says it is does suggest it as you put it, however the perception from the book was that regardless of what you did, cerberus got their hands on the tech anyway.

So i'm hoping he's just para-phrasing it without going into detail and that what he means fits both scenarios.

Basically everything Shepard did lead to cerberus getting hold of the info/tech and they've created a base past the omega IV irrespective of whether or not you destroyed or kept the base, hope that makes sense.

Likely scenario,the cerbs go there somehow(you took the only IFF) and they recover the tech,you don't end ME2 on good terms with TIM regardless of the base or not.

[B.Shep]

alperez wrote...
Reading it exactly as he says it is does suggest it as you put it, however the perception from the book was that regardless of what you did, cerberus got their hands on the tech anyway.

So i'm hoping he's just para-phrasing it without going into detail and that what he means fits both scenarios.

I also hope he made a mistake when he spoke, because if that is true...i will be a bit disappointed

alperez wrote...
Basically everything Shepard did lead to cerberus getting hold of the
info/tech and they've created a base past the omega IV irrespective of
whether or not you destroyed or kept the base, hope that makes sense.

According with the debriefing screen Cerberus salvage things from the dead collectors on Horizon and i guess they also did the same when EDI hacked the collector's ship during that trap...

[Inverness Moon]

B.Shep wrote...

Have you guys saw this?
www.newsarama.com/games/mac-walters-mass-effect-3-invasion-interview-110726.html

WTF is that??
Now Mac Walters is assuming Shepard gave the Collector's Base to TIM? So what was the point of making that the biggest decision from  ME2?

Sorry i am a bit pissed now after reading this...<_<

Well even if you blow the base up, there are still remains to go through. The Thannix Canon and EDI were created from the remains of Sovereign.

The way I see it, Cerberus will get story-important tech either way, but if you saved the base then we'll see even more in ME3. I look forward to it.

After all, if Cerberus got absolutely nothing, I suspect Shepard would be up the creek without a paddle in ME3.

Also, this seems like a severe blow to the ridiculous TIM-indoctrinated-all-along argument:

"But I think it's safe to say The Illusive Man is still very much "himself" throughout the course of what people have been playing. We wouldn't ever want you to feel like "oh this guy I worked for was really an enemy all along." But that doesn't mean there weren't influences in his life."

Modifié par Inverness Moon, 28 juillet 2011 - 01:03 .

[LilyasAvalon]

Was it to destroy the corrupt knowledge and secrets, to 'preserve the soul of our species'?

Initially, yes, that's why I did it anyway. To me, I didn't really see or think any of the tech on that ship was worth it, not for the cost of the humans that were liquified, probably because most of the tech was for liquifying humans.

Plus, when I thought about it, the only people who'd really have any access to this data or tech was Cerberus. And them being a strictly pro-human organization and against Alliance type guys, it was highly unlikely they would give or share the data with the Alliance or Council, and to be quite frank, I just don't trust Cerberus with that kind of data, especially with how they 'get results'.

Even if they didn't join the reapers in ME3, let's say we let them keep the data and they help us defeat the reapers... what's stopping them from using that tech on us now suddenly?

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

LilyasAvalon wrote...

Was it to destroy the corrupt knowledge and secrets, to 'preserve the soul of our species'?

Initially, yes, that's why I did it anyway. To me, I didn't really see or think any of the tech on that ship was worth it, not for the cost of the humans that were liquified, probably because most of the tech was for liquifying humans.

Plus, when I thought about it, the only people who'd really have any access to this data or tech was Cerberus. And them being a strictly pro-human organization and against Alliance type guys, it was highly unlikely they would give or share the data with the Alliance or Council, and to be quite frank, I just don't trust Cerberus with that kind of data, especially with how they 'get results'.

Even if they didn't join the reapers in ME3, let's say we let them keep the data and they help us defeat the reapers... what's stopping them from using that tech on us now suddenly?

"When you kill the strongest thing in the galaxy,that only leaves...us."-Urdnot Grunt

[Kabanya101]

"Wash of your hate!" - Half Baked

To end the fighting and the this or that complaints, I'll lay everything on the line for everyone in simple terms.

*ahem*

Though it was not stated, it was implied that Shepard new about the horrors that would come if the base wasn't destroyed, such as indoctrination. Which to some extent, still occurs in ME3 even with the base destroyed.

If the base was not destroyed, the reapers could always reclaim it and start it back up. But it would take longer to rebuild a whole station and relay, so Shepard thought ahead for the worse case senario.

Referring to the first point, through indoctrination, humans could start killing each other to recreate another human reaper. No base = no worries. And no more humans lives/colonies lost.

And it was a big F*CK YOU to the Illusive Man since he's corrupted and not neccessarily (can't spell at the moment) evil, but does perform actions that aqre frowned upon. I.E. Experimenting on humans that don't comply.

So to the complainers, bull****ters, haters, and those who don't understand the complexity of destroying the base, there are your reasons. Thank you, b*itches.

[ladyvader]

Inverness Moon wrote...

B.Shep wrote...

Have you guys saw this?
www.newsarama.com/games/mac-walters-mass-effect-3-invasion-interview-110726.html

WTF is that??
Now Mac Walters is assuming Shepard gave the Collector's Base to TIM? So what was the point of making that the biggest decision from  ME2?

Sorry i am a bit pissed now after reading this...<_<

Well even if you blow the base up, there are still remains to go through. The Thannix Canon and EDI were created from the remains of Sovereign.

The way I see it, Cerberus will get story-important tech either way, but if you saved the base then we'll see even more in ME3. I look forward to it.

After all, if Cerberus got absolutely nothing, I suspect Shepard would be up the creek without a paddle in ME3.

Also, this seems like a severe blow to the ridiculous TIM-indoctrinated-all-along argument:

"But I think it's safe to say The Illusive Man is still very much "himself" throughout the course of what people have been playing. We wouldn't ever want you to feel like "oh this guy I worked for was really an enemy all along." But that doesn't mean there weren't influences in his life."

The Thanix Cannon is a turian design, not Cerberus'. 

[Kaiser Shepard]

One of the big things I've also said I want to do is explore Shepard. People are playing as Shepard and as a role-playing experience you can't go too far off the rails with who Shepard is, because it's their Shepard. But I have found a way to allow people to explore Shepard's humanity, to explore some of his or her vulnerabilities.

One of the things I drew a lot of inspiration from for some of the themes of Mass Effect 3 was the movie Gladiator. You have this heroic character in ME3 who kind of knows that their days might be numbered, this heavy burden on 'em with people dying all around. The way Maximus explored that and the way he stood apart from everyone around him, the burden that he had and the skills that he had. What did that feel like?

So the player has all these friends, all these companions, these people that are close to you, and yet you're slightly removed from that. So what does it mean to that character? So we're kind of being able to look into Shepard's soul.

And that's optional! You don't have to, you can just be like "I'm off to kill things!" *laughs* And that's a valid response! That's a valid Shepard response to this. "Where are them Aliens? We're gonna kill 'em!"

I have to admit that sounds rather promising...

Modifié par Kaiser Shepard, 28 juillet 2011 - 02:16 .

[nicksmi56]

My reasons for blowing up the base:
1. I really hate The Illusive Man.
2. Cerberus can't pull off a decent experiment to save their liv

[nicksmi56]

Lives* stupid phone. Except the lazarus project which was only saved by SHEPARD.
3. Everyone's like "Oh i need all the allies i can get." What I don't need is allies who stab me in the back at the first chance. Don't forget he's almost killed you numerous times.
4. IT'S THE REAPERS' TECH. They've been using it forever which means they're probably better at it than Y-O-U. If I made a weapon and you got a replica and tried to use it on me, I would still win. Why? Cause it's MY weapon. I know how to use it and i ALSO know what weaknesses it has.
5. I see giving up the base at a "**** we can't win any other way!" thing. Which i don't believe
6. The LAST thing we need is to alienate the rest of the galaxy because we put too much faith in TIM.
And 7. When you have a fire in your home, do you solve the problem by starting another fire in another part of your home? No. Cause that makes it WORSE. Why do you all assume cerberus will wait til AFTER the reaper threat to stab us in the back? If they're not so generous, not only do you have another enemy, you have another MORE POWERFUL enemy
Oh and 8. Using the base is like spitting on the graves of the humans that died which i find to be morally wrong.
That is all

[Kaiser Shepard]

Whoops, didn't mean to post here.

Modifié par Kaiser Shepard, 28 juillet 2011 - 05:01 .

[dthao31r]

 I always destroy the base (on both renegade and paragon).  I do it because it's the right thing to do.  My Shepard (which is based off Captain Janeway, from Star Trek Voyager) basically does what needs to be done.  She doesn't play with fire.  Ever.  

And yes, destroying the base is the right thing to do.  Just look at all the facts.  The reapers themselves want us to use their technology so we'd be dependant upon them.  This idea is found in other Sci-Fi stories as well.  Look at the TV-series V(Visitors).  The Visitors appear and act like friends sharing their technology with the humans.  But in reality they want the humans to be dependant on their technology, so they can be controlled later.  The reapers want the same thing.

My Shepard knows this.  Not because she's riding on a high horse but because she was exposed to the knowledge of the Protheans via the beacons.  She knows for a fact that relying on Reaper technology will be their downfall.  

The best answer to the Reaper threat then, in her eyes, is to diverge from their path.  Yes the fight will be harder.  Yes, they may lose more battles that could've been won using Reaper knowledge and Tech.  But in the end you're playing right into their hands.  

Shepard knows this, and Shepard says "Screw you.  Im not following in anyone's footsteps". 

An Army Seargent once told me, "Sometimes it's just better to take the hard route, that's not already laid out before you.  Because that's the only way you can surpass those who've come before."

And that's the point in destroying the Collector Base. 

[Inverness Moon]

ladyvader wrote...

The Thanix Cannon is a turian design, not Cerberus'. 

I never claimed it was Cerberus' design.

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

Inverness Moon wrote...

ladyvader wrote...

The Thanix Cannon is a turian design, not Cerberus'. 

I never claimed it was Cerberus' design.

"No but you were thinking it."

[Inverness Moon]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

Inverness Moon wrote...

ladyvader wrote...

The Thanix Cannon is a turian design, not Cerberus'. 

I never claimed it was Cerberus' design.

"No but you were thinking it."

Except I wasn't. I'm really not going to argue about this. The Thanix Cannon was designed by the turians using what they salvaged from Sovereign. That is common knowledge.

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

Inverness Moon wrote...

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

Inverness Moon wrote...

ladyvader wrote...

The Thanix Cannon is a turian design, not Cerberus'. 

I never claimed it was Cerberus' design.

"No but you were thinking it."

Except I wasn't. I'm really not going to argue about this. The Thanix Cannon was designed by the turians using what they salvaged from Sovereign. That is common knowledge.

Yeah I know just quoting those asari on illium near the car port.I meant no harm :innocent:

[Matteo493]

IMO the best decision is to save the base.Infact if I save the C-base there are two alternatives. The first is that we can study it and have some benefit from all the collected information while the second is that the Cerberus members will be indoctrinated but even if it happens the Reaper's threat is so large that the new enemy in prospective isn't influential. On the other hand if we destroy the base there will be no advantages and also TIM for sure will become an enemy.