1939 réponses à ce sujet

[Someone With Mass]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Is TIM Cerberus as a whole?
Is Wrex a krogan as a whole? Legion Geth as a whole?

My point about Hackett, is that he, as a Alliance admiral loyal to the Alliance, confirms Cerberus is doing something (for the galaxy).

And my poitn about TIM is that we do not how much much tech Cerberus gives directly to the alliance, and how much indirectly.

Not that it matters much - you can always take it from him.

Eh, yes? TIM is in control of the whole goddamn organization. Hackett isn't in control of the whole Alliance.

And if Cerberus were competent, we wouldn't have to take things from them.  

But I guess it was "cooler" to make it a splinter faction instead.

[Lotion Soronarr]

I guess it's time for antoher quick summary/recap


FACTS:
 - Sheppard knows about the base and how to get to it
thus, even if TIM would want to withold technology or info (which is unlikely), Shep can strom the place with an alliance fleet and take it anyway.

- Cerberus is composed of people
the people working for Cerberus didn't spring forth from thin air. They got families, freinds and loved ones and they wouldn' sit idly by as reapers attack. For example, if Mirandas sister was on Earth, do you think Miranda would do anything to help the Alliance fend off the reapers? Or would she jsut sit in her office with usefull tech/data and twiddle her thumbs?

- Cerberus isnt' big enough or strong enough to take over the universe, even with reaper tech
It doesn't have the numbers, or resources or logistic for that, OR to put the tech it finds to best use.

- Reapers coming is a certanty. TIMs failure is a probablity
Focus on what on the first, prepare for the second. Cerberus MAY f*** the experiment up. But that is a threat you know you can deal with.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Is TIM Cerberus as a whole?
Is Wrex a krogan as a whole? Legion Geth as a whole?

My point about Hackett, is that he, as a Alliance admiral loyal to the Alliance, confirms Cerberus is doing something (for the galaxy).

And my poitn about TIM is that we do not how much much tech Cerberus gives directly to the alliance, and how much indirectly.

Not that it matters much - you can always take it from him.

Eh, yes? TIM is in control of the whole goddamn organization. Hackett isn't in control of the whole Alliance.

And if Cerberus were competent, we wouldn't have to take things from them. 

Erm no. He isn't Cerberus as a whole. 1 man does not an organization make. Or what? Miranda, Jack, Kelly, the cook, the two engineers - they're not Cerberus?

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

TIM has had a lucky streak at best,he has had a long list of near misses,it is absolutely as much of a leap of faith to give Cerberus the base as it is to destroy it.

To add to the point you just made about Cerberus not being big enough to take over the galaxy even with reaper tech,isn't it possible that a much larger organization or even an entire race puts the hammer down on Cerberus and take the reaper tech and mass produce it and in-turn take over the galaxy themselves?

If Cuba was the only country in the world with nukes they don't have the ability to take over the world,but they would pose a threat to stability,and The USA,Russia,or China could EASILY go in and take that technology and conquer the world.(completely hypothetical I know,but if the shoe fits.)

Modifié par Humanoid_Typhoon, 28 juillet 2011 - 06:49 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

To add to the point you just made about Cerberus not being big enough to take over the galaxy even with reaper tech,isn't it possible that a much larger organization or even an entire race puts the hammer down on Cerberus and take the reaper tech and mass produce it and in-turn take over the galaxy themselves?

So..don't give the bease to anyone? Who cares if it can help destroy the Reapers?

I'm sure as hell glad you're not the one making decisions for my safety.

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

lol. Should have figured you would nitpick pieces to further your own agenda,your arguments are trying to make ME3 irrelevant,you do not know what the base has,you do not know what alternative their may be,just because Shepard doesn't have another plan in place then and there doesn't mean (s)he wont find another way.

[Someone With Mass]

Want to be safe? Gather up as much supplies as you can, and then go for the uncharted parts of the galaxy while in stasis until you run into a habitable planet.

Taa-daa. No Cerberus BS.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

lol. Should have figured you would nitpick pieces to further your own agenda,your arguments are trying to make ME3 irrelevant,you do not know what the base has,you do not know what alternative their may be,just because Shepard doesn't have another plan in place then and there doesn't mean (s)he wont find another way.

ME3 is irrelevant, as the decision takes place in ME2.

But I will tell you what I know.

I know the base can help. I don't know how much, probably a lot.

I know Shep doesn't have another plan.

I know that throwing away a distinct advantage and posible solution in the face of anihilation is lunacy. Hoping that you will find another way, that some new solution will just drop into your lap from above - that's pretty much on the same level of usefull and practical as is to sit down and pray to God to come down and smite your enemies, and depend on that prayer alone.

What guarantee you have there you will find something in time? Or at all? Or there there even is something else to find?
You as a player know that there will be another way, since this is a game after all. But Shepard doesn't.

Modifié par Lotion Soronnar, 28 juillet 2011 - 07:16 .

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

HomelessGal wrote...

In a general sense, one would presume that everybody's going to have Reaper tech after ME3. Well, unless we get a strange ending where the whole galaxy agrees to dispose of all potential salvage for moral reasons or something. Not trying to argue in favor of Cerberus or giving them the base, but a scenario where a native species uses Reaper tech to try and conquer the galaxy seems likely whether or not you give Cerberus the base.

Excellent point.

Giving Cerberus the base give them Collector+Reaper tech(assuming they find anything of use),and they have had it longer giving them a headstart and a possible edge.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

HomelessGal wrote...

In a general sense, one would presume that everybody's going to have Reaper tech after ME3. Well, unless we get a strange ending where the whole galaxy agrees to dispose of all potential salvage for moral reasons or something. Not trying to argue in favor of Cerberus or giving them the base, but a scenario where a native species uses Reaper tech to try and conquer the galaxy seems likely whether or not you give Cerberus the base.

Excellent point.

Giving Cerberus the base give them Collector+Reaper tech(assuming they find anything of use),and they have had it longer giving them a headstart and a possible edge.

The only way the galaxy could end up unbalanced is if Cerberus gives all that tech to the Alliance. Then the Alliance would have that head start.
Cerberus alone really can't make use of all that tech in any meaningfull way. It's not a super-power..or any power really on a galactic scale. A single Alliance fleet probably has more ship and resources and people than the entire Cerberus.

[Someone With Mass]

Can always do that, or look after more Prothean artifacts that might help. The Shadow Broker thought of it.

No need to give an unknown/unstable element like Cerberus technology that gives them an edge over everyone else.

[Someone With Mass]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

The only way the galaxy could end up unbalanced is if Cerberus gives all that tech to the Alliance. Then the Alliance would have that head start.
Cerberus alone really can't make use of all that tech in any meaningfull way. It's not a super-power..or any power really on a galactic scale. A single Alliance fleet probably has more ship and resources and people than the entire Cerberus.

Then there's literally no point in giving them the base.

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

lol. Should have figured you would nitpick pieces to further your own agenda,your arguments are trying to make ME3 irrelevant,you do not know what the base has,you do not know what alternative their may be,just because Shepard doesn't have another plan in place then and there doesn't mean (s)he wont find another way.

ME3 is irrelevant,as the decision takes place in ME2.

But I will tell you what I know.

I know the base can help. I don't know how much, probably a lot.

I know Shep doesn't have another plan.

I know that throwing away a distinct advantage and posible solution in the face of anihilation is lunacy. Hoping that you will find another way, that some new solution will just drop into your lap from above - that's pretty much on the same level of usefull and practical as is to sit down and pray to God to come down and smite your enemies, and depend on that prayer alone.

What guarantee you have there you will find something in time? Or at all? Or there there even is something else to find?
You as a player know that there will be another way, since this is a game after all. But Shepard doesn't.

If ME3 is irrelevant then this topic is in the wrong forum and should be locked,it isn't irrelevant because the decision may or not have dire consequences in ME3,I said Shepard doesnt have another plan,and that is because the plot in ME2 ends after the base,you keep talking like you have all the facts,there are not enough facts to make your assumptions absolute.What guarentee do you have that the base will be more then a dead end,Shepard will try find a way (s)he has done it before and  will do whatever it takes.

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

The only way the galaxy could end up unbalanced is if Cerberus gives all that tech to the Alliance. Then the Alliance would have that head start.
Cerberus alone really can't make use of all that tech in any meaningfull way. It's not a super-power..or any power really on a galactic scale. A single Alliance fleet probably has more ship and resources and people than the entire Cerberus.

Then there's literally no point in giving them the base.

This.This 1000 times,you just contradicted yourself massively,your entire argument is your made up facts about cerberus being able to get the key to the Reapers defeat,then you say yourself that they couldn't make a meaningful impact.You have shot down your own theory/argument.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

The only way the galaxy could end up unbalanced is if Cerberus gives all that tech to the Alliance. Then the Alliance would have that head start.
Cerberus alone really can't make use of all that tech in any meaningfull way. It's not a super-power..or any power really on a galactic scale. A single Alliance fleet probably has more ship and resources and people than the entire Cerberus.

Then there's literally no point in giving them the base.

Why?

[Someone With Mass]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

The only way the galaxy could end up unbalanced is if Cerberus gives all that tech to the Alliance. Then the Alliance would have that head start.
Cerberus alone really can't make use of all that tech in any meaningfull way. It's not a super-power..or any power really on a galactic scale. A single Alliance fleet probably has more ship and resources and people than the entire Cerberus.

Then there's literally no point in giving them the base.

Why?

Modifié par Someone With Mass, 28 juillet 2011 - 07:28 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

lol. Should have figured you would nitpick pieces to further your own agenda,your arguments are trying to make ME3 irrelevant,you do not know what the base has,you do not know what alternative their may be,just because Shepard doesn't have another plan in place then and there doesn't mean (s)he wont find another way.

ME3 is irrelevant,as the decision takes place in ME2.

But I will tell you what I know.

I know the base can help. I don't know how much, probably a lot.

I know Shep doesn't have another plan.

I know that throwing away a distinct advantage and posible solution in the face of anihilation is lunacy. Hoping that you will find another way, that some new solution will just drop into your lap from above - that's pretty much on the same level of usefull and practical as is to sit down and pray to God to come down and smite your enemies, and depend on that prayer alone.

What guarantee you have there you will find something in time? Or at all? Or there there even is something else to find?
You as a player know that there will be another way, since this is a game after all. But Shepard doesn't.

If ME3 is irrelevant then this topic is in the wrong forum and should be locked,it isn't irrelevant because the decision may or not have dire consequences in ME3,I said Shepard doesnt have another plan,and that is because the plot in ME2 ends after the base,you keep talking like you have all the facts,there are not enough facts to make your assumptions absolute.What guarentee do you have that the base will be more then a dead end,Shepard will try find a way (s)he has done it before and  will do whatever it takes.

And you miss the point compeltely and utterly.


A decision can only be defined as being smart or logical based on information avilable to the person making the decision at the time of decision making.

What happens in the future has no effect on that.

[Someone With Mass]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

And you miss the point compeltely and utterly.


A decision can only be defined as being smart or logical based on information avilable to the person making the decision at the time of decision making.

What happens in the future has no effect on that.

Says who? You? Ha. Yeah, right.

People act on emotion all the time.

It is a reflex of your flesh.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

The only way the galaxy could end up unbalanced is if Cerberus gives all that tech to the Alliance. Then the Alliance would have that head start.
Cerberus alone really can't make use of all that tech in any meaningfull way. It's not a super-power..or any power really on a galactic scale. A single Alliance fleet probably has more ship and resources and people than the entire Cerberus.

Then there's literally no point in giving them the base.

This.This 1000 times,you just contradicted yourself massively,your entire argument is your made up facts about cerberus being able to get the key to the Reapers defeat,then you say yourself that they couldn't make a meaningful impact.You have shot down your own theory/argument.

There is no contradiction here, since you do not even understand the implications of what I wrote. Which makes all of this even funnier.

The point of giving Cerberus a base isn't so THEY build an armada of uber-warship. They have neither the resources/funding/peopel for that, nor the time.
The point is for Cerberus to do the research and get technology or information that can be used by other races (and humans) against the Reapers.

TIM has shown that he is willing to go to great lengths to achieve results and achieve them fast. And if there's one thing the universe has little of it's time.

This is why Cerberus isn't a big threat to the galaxy (even with reaper tech), but can be very usefull in a fight agaisnt the reapers.

Hence, no contradiction. Only your lack of comprehension.

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

lol. Should have figured you would nitpick pieces to further your own agenda,your arguments are trying to make ME3 irrelevant,you do not know what the base has,you do not know what alternative their may be,just because Shepard doesn't have another plan in place then and there doesn't mean (s)he wont find another way.

ME3 is irrelevant,as the decision takes place in ME2.

But I will tell you what I know.

I know the base can help. I don't know how much, probably a lot.

I know Shep doesn't have another plan.

I know that throwing away a distinct advantage and posible solution in the face of anihilation is lunacy. Hoping that you will find another way, that some new solution will just drop into your lap from above - that's pretty much on the same level of usefull and practical as is to sit down and pray to God to come down and smite your enemies, and depend on that prayer alone.

What guarantee you have there you will find something in time? Or at all? Or there there even is something else to find?
You as a player know that there will be another way, since this is a game after all. But Shepard doesn't.

If ME3 is irrelevant then this topic is in the wrong forum and should be locked,it isn't irrelevant because the decision may or not have dire consequences in ME3,I said Shepard doesnt have another plan,and that is because the plot in ME2 ends after the base,you keep talking like you have all the facts,there are not enough facts to make your assumptions absolute.What guarentee do you have that the base will be more then a dead end,Shepard will try find a way (s)he has done it before and  will do whatever it takes.

And you miss the point compeltely and utterly.


A decision can only be defined as being smart or logical based on information avilable to the person making the decision at the time of decision making.

What happens in the future has no effect on that.

The argument isn't if the decision was smart or not,Logic is the begining of understanding not the end.Please explain how Shepard knowing TIM is a massive A-hole not sufficient data to make a decison or not.

We don't want to let Iran build nuclear reactors because the possibility of them weaponizing the uranium,this is based off experience with them,it is smart and logical to assume they would.

Shepard will find another way that is what (s)he does,he can make a "smart and logical" choice about the base solely on what he has seen of TIM.You can't say he can't just because you disagree.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

And you miss the point compeltely and utterly.


A decision can only be defined as being smart or logical based on information avilable to the person making the decision at the time of decision making.

What happens in the future has no effect on that.

Says who? You? Ha. Yeah, right.

People act on emotion all the time.

It is a reflex of your flesh.

:blink:
I cannot belive this. You cannot be serious.... you're trolling me, right?

If I have to explain it to you, you're already beyond help...

I'll let someone else do the explanation. I've clobbered you enough in this thread, so best I leave you a little bit of dignity.

[Someone With Mass]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

There is no contradiction here, since you do not even understand the implications of what I wrote. Which makes all of this even funnier.

The point of giving Cerberus a base isn't so THEY build an armada of uber-warship. They have neither the resources/funding/peopel for that, nor the time.
The point is for Cerberus to do the research and get technology or information that can be used by other races (and humans) against the Reapers.

TIM has shown that he is willing to go to great lengths to achieve results and achieve them fast. And if there's one thing the universe has little of it's time.

This is why Cerberus isn't a big threat to the galaxy (even with reaper tech), but can be very usefull in a fight agaisnt the reapers.

Hence, no contradiction. Only your lack of comprehension.

Then again, there's no proof that Cerberus will give the best of the technology to the Alliance, and as you said yourself: A decision can only be defined as being smart or logical based on information avilable to the person making the decision at the time of decision making.

And since there's no information available at the time of the decision that points at Cerberus, willing to give all the great discoveries to the Alliance, given only what we've seen in the game, there's really no point in saving that bucket of junk. 

We can and will live without it.

Modifié par Someone With Mass, 28 juillet 2011 - 07:40 .

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

You haven't clobbered anyone you simply have been taking your typical "Lalalala can't hear you" approach,apparently you have the ability to extract facts out of assumptions you yank out of your butt pucker.

[goofyomnivore]

No need to give an unknown/unstable element like Cerberus technology that gives them an edge over everyone else.

An edge.. how so? Cerberus even with improved technology couldn't dent any major political entity let alone protect their findings from one if attacked by it. Either the status quo remains the same, or Cerberus helps. After the war it is a technology free for all probably, so I doubt any advantage could be gained there from the base.