[quote]Lotion Soronnar wrote...
I'm harping still be cause you still haven't explained what it was you actually said back there.
You know when someone doesn't understand you and asks for clarification, you really should clarify it...instead of going "quit bugging me"
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I corrected myself in my very next post the first time you brought it up.
To summarise, you have evidence of what kind of an organisation cerberus are and what lengths they will go to, this should be a part of you choice also.
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You faield countless times.
I asked you a dozen times how a small orgnaization like Cerberus could take over the universe. You faield to respond to that or formulate any reasonable answer.
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I failed because no matter how logical my counterargument may be, your position is so entrenched that you refuse any argument you disagree with.
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You have just proven my point here.
That you lack any plan to defeat the reapers, yet destroy a possibly vital resource, runnign jsut one hope you'll find something else.
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I've proven your point, only because in your own mind keeping the base is vital to your own view of how the reapers will be defeated.
I've explained my reasons for destroying the base, as have you for keeping it, yet because i destroy it and it conflicts with your justification for keeping it, you've then somehow come up with an idea that this is a plan for stopping the reapers.
Whatever benefits may be found on the base will not be key in destroying the reapers imo, they may help or as i believe actually hinder your plans to defeat the reapers.
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Not just on EDI, but on genreal knowledge on Cerberus. As a former Black Ops organization, ti simply cannot be large - by any reasonable logic. To take over the galaxy, Cerberus should practicly be as large as huamnity..and at that point it would be humanity, so hte point is moot.
To take and hold territory you need boots on the ground. All those troopers need to be trained. Supplied. Ferried there. The orbit of the planet has to be secured. With a naval fleet.
Cerberus has none of that. The Normandy 2 was a huge investment on their part, and it "just" a heavy frigate.
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Firstly cerberus as a former black ops organisation should know the value of misinformation or feeding false information to the general public. So what you think you know about them may be completely untrue, in me1 they appeared to be a small organisation that wasn't very important.
In me2 you learn that what you thought you knew about them was flawed and they are much larger and have much more resources than you first imagined.
In me3 we will no doubt learn even more about them and may find that they actually have even more resources then you think.
But even apart from all that an organisation doesn't need to be large to weild inordinate influence especially with what we know about cerberus experiments thus far.
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Ahh.. Finally a good point you make.
Of course, it has to be seen if they could really control them and how many. The geth themselves are split and there seems to be a limit on Davids part (he did snap because he was overtasked).
Either way, that would be a problem - but the allied races proved strong enough for the geth before.
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We don't know the extent of the influence that David could control, it could have been all once the experiments were handled properly, which is exactly the point, if they succeed then they have a geth army to do all those things you say they cannot.
Again you keep harping on that the allied forces could easily handle anything that cerberus could throw at them and again your missing the point. In a full on attack when all forces in the galaxy have nothing else to worry about then off course your right, in a blindside attack while these forces are recovering from the reapers, its a different story.
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There MAY be greater risk. That is not directly proportinal as reward is, given the situation. F'cours,e what I mean by that is the better tech you get from the base, the better tech Cerberus gets and thus the risk of them doing something bad with it increasees, but agian, cerberus small size limits tthat rather nicely.
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If as i say a worse case scenario happens then the risk is entirely proportional.
Once again the size of cerberus's organisation isn't actually the problem here, its how strong and what type of tech they may have that would cause the problem.
One man with a nuclear weapon is more dangerous than an entire squadron with ak-47's.
[quote][quote]
It's not an auto-repear defeat bottun. Nor did I ever say it was. but it is a way to close the technological gap between us and possibly find weakneses. If those arne't good ways to resist the reapers, what is?[/quote]
Probably dooms hte galaxy. The Collector base IS the best shot at defeating the reapers.
If you got a better option or plan, I'd love to hear it. I asked tthis question a million times before, but it was never answered.
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Again your letting your own view of just what the collector base may mean cloud your argument, you believe that destroying the base probably dooms the galaxy and that keeping the base is the best shot at defeating the reapers.
I disagree for a multitude of reasons one of which being that i don't get to keep the collector base and would not be in control of it in the first place, instead i must rely on people i don't trust to prove me wrong and be trustworthy.
So your plan is let cerberus study the base, hope they use what they find to help you, hope that what they find is key to beating the reapers and hope they don't do anything other than what you wish them to do.
What if your plan backfires completely, if cerberus betray you or the tech on board actually is a weapon just not for us, where does that leave you?
My plan is unknown because at this stage we have no freaking idea how to defeat the reapers, you have a plan that in your opinion will work, but one with no guarantee it won't bite you in the ass.
At least in my version i don't have to worry about that happening.
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Yes. You are the one taking a leap of fantasy. And imagining things apparenlty.
As I said before, I do not trust cerberus fully. And I don't have to.
I do keep in mind the negatives and they are inconsequential compared to the positives.
You do not trust Cerberus? What about the Krogan? The Rachni? The Geth?
What guarantee you have THEY won't turn on you?Did you kill the Rachni queen? Destroyed the genophage cure? Sold Legion? Because if you didn't, you're a massive hypocrite.
A rachnii invasion or a geth invasion are a bigger negative than Cerberus rampage.
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I'm basing my opinions on Cerberus based on my experiences with Cerberus so far. While each of the other groups you mention could turn on me, i have no experience to show that this may be the case.
So while a Rachni invasion or a geth invasion would indeed be a bigger negative than a cerberus rampage as you put it, unlike cerbeurs i have no experience showing these groups to be untrustworthy thus far.
Of course it could bite me in the ass come me3 something i know when i make the choices i make, the collector base could also come back and bite you in the ass in me3 something you however seem reluctant to accept.
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Sovereign didn't even fire it's weapon before the Alliance fleet arrived.
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Kinda didn't have to since it just destroyed whatever ships in its way by smashing straight through them.
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Eh?
I'm only using your own arguments against you... You're the one who said Sovereign can take out everyone alone, wihout thinking trough the implication of what you said.
And your statment here makes little sense.
If my original logics proves to be false...well, it hasn't been so far, despite numerous attempt, it's still rock solid.
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Your using my own arguments against me by saying what i said about sovereign in some way contradicts everything else i've said. How exactly?
My statement that if your original logic proves to be false makes little sense because in your view no other logic other than yours can be correct.
No argument will convince you that your wrong, so rather than even accept the possibility you instead keep responding, i'm right, i'm right, my logic is valid.
You refust to accept even the possibility that anyone who destroyed the base may also have a logical reason for this and because this reason may contradict your own view of why the base should be kept, you've somehow convinced yourself that your the only one arguing logically.
The truth is its your choice to keep the base based on your opinion of what keeping the base may mean, so your logic is all served to agree with that opinion and any logic that disagrees must be false.
My opinion on why i destroy the base is also served by the logic i used to form that opinion, the difference is i can at least accept that my opinion or logic may be false, something you cannot.
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Humanity aren't your allies?
Second front? With what army? Again, Cerberus is a small organization, It cannot match any single other race, let alone their cobined forces.
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They are, they're just not my only allies, but once again cerberus are not humanity.
Secondly like i've said countless times, they don't need an army if they have superior tech.
A small group of well trained, well armed soldiers attacking you wth surprise can do just as much damage as a large group thats not so well trained or armed attacking you when you expect.
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Oh brother...you're not thinking this trough.
So you're afraid some "magic tech" will suddenly make Cerberus be ableto take over the galaxy? yet you have absolutely no idea how.
Here's the deal. It's space. There is no substitue for having an armada.
He who wohld space, hold the planet. Cerberus doesn't have an armada. It CANNOT have it, since mantaining it requires a ludicorous amounts of funds and resources.. Heck, the alliance - which has all the resources and manpower of humanity - struggles with the navy it has, and you think that Cerberus, a small black ops organization, can somehow top that?
Furthermore, to hold something you need ot have your pople on the scene. If Cerberus wants to take over..let's say Tuchanak, it would have to occupy it. With what troops? Where' the millions who's loyally follwo Cerberus and enlist in their army? The millions needed back home to produce good and supply that army? Now multiply that by the number of populated planets in the universe.
The only way Cerberus could possibly take over the galaxy is if all of humanity stands behind them (even then is unlikely)...but at that point Cerberus really would be humanity, so the point is moot.
Indoctrination? Sovereign had indoctrination. Didn't help him much. What we do know about indoctrination is that it has limited range and it takes time. This alone greatly reduces it's effectiveness. Not to mention that if indoctrination was really that powerfull, why didn't Sovereign just indoctrinate the world leaders, have them disband their navies nd be done with it?
Indoctrination isn't the "I win" card.
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Of course i have no idea how whatever tech they may find may lead to the scenario i portray, just as you have no idea that whatever tech they find will lead to defeating the reapers.
But if it can do one it can do the other also, whatever tech and info they find on the base that you think can be used as an equailiser or that could be so important to take down the reapers, could also have the same or worse effects on someone other than the reapers.
Its a two way street, if it can be helpful then it can also be harmful.
Now handing this valuable resource over to an organisation i distrust with no guarantee that they will only use this resource for the intentions i have, is me handing them a loaded gun that they may point at me or others later.
How exactly will they use that gun, i have no idea, but based on my experiences with them, they'll use it with little regards to the cost and with no qualms about who they hurt in the process.
We know so little about whats on the base that like you've repeatedly argued we have no idea if there is some kind of super weapon or key to defeating the repears on board, but say there is, say your right and the base is a key to beating the reapers.
Who controls that key and what they use it for, not only against the reapers but against others has to be something i concern myself with.
So while i weigh up the potential positives and negatives i then must decide if there could be another way to acheive the positive without the negatve.
Modifié par alperez, 28 juillet 2011 - 08:33 .
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