1939 réponses à ce sujet

[Lotion Soronarr]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

The problem is lotion,you only accept logic that furthers only your own point of view.

nope. Your'e the one doing it.

I accept all logic.

Me shooting your arguments full of holes is not the same as ignoring them.

You haven't shot holes in anyones arguments you simply disregard them because you don't agree

I replay to every argument. And shoot it full of hols.

Care to bring anything pertinent to this discussion?

If you're so sure I disregarded some arguments, plase, re-post them.


For the last few pages you practicly brought nothing to the discussion except harp how I disregard stuff.
Either bring somethnig to the table or GTFO.

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

You shooting down an argument is taking everything the other person says and posting "I didn't do that so it must be wrong" next to it.
I'm just doing what you do.

Modifié par Humanoid_Typhoon, 28 juillet 2011 - 11:14 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Okay, I'm not going to answer against such poor arguments. Especially when the answer is pretty much there already.

Assuming that a Reaper fetus has all the technological advancements as a full-grown Reaper is like saying that a newborn baby can walk and run just as good as an adult simply because they both have legs. Catching my drift yet?

And if you want to study the metal alloys, go study Sovereign's remains or the samples from the derelict Reaper I hope and assume that at least one scientist was smart enough to take.

Why not? Reapers are ships, not humans. Size matters little.
There's nothing stopping the reapers from installing a new and improved power conduit or EZ core or something on the human-reaper.
Also, anything that was to be a part of a fully-grown reaper, would have to construccted on that base.

you fail...yet again.

[Someone With Mass]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
Why not? Reapers are ships, not humans. Size matters little.
There's nothing stopping the reapers from installing a new and improved power conduit or EZ core or something on the human-reaper.
Also, anything that was to be a part of a fully-grown reaper, would have to construccted on that base.

you fail...yet again.

Oh, I fail because you can't see my point just because it doesn't fit nicely with your argument, so you're making stuff up as you go and are blatantly ignoring the rest?

That's nice.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

lotion,can I get a source to how you can immediately clean up Cerberus' mess? who's to say Shep is too busy to respond to a Cerberus screw up?Oh thats right,BW,not you,not me,not alp,not someone with mass,but BW.

Why don't you read. I reapted this a zillion times before.

Shep knows the location of the base. He has the IFF.  Cerberus is small and doesn't have a navy.

If Cerberus screws up, all Shep has to do is place a call to the Council or Hackett, and you'll have a fleet to blow up the Cerberus base and all the mess on it.

Why do you assume Shep has to do everything himself?

Source that they aren't busy as well? There is a reaper war going on after all,and the council and alliance are going to realize "they dun goofed"

Why would you wait AFTER the reapers arrive to check on Cerberus?
That makes no sense. You keep tabs on them.

They should produce something to use agaisnt the reapers before the reapers arrive. Since, you know..any technology or upgrade will need tiem to be mass-produced and incorporated into the fleet.

Heck, have a ship stationed near to blow them away at first sign of trouble.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

You shooting down an argument is taking everything the other person says and posting "I didn't do that so it must be wrong" next to it.
I'm just doing what you do.

Quit trolling.

I say again, if you think I missed something, re-post it.

[GSSAGE7]

I blew the base straight to hell because my Sole Survivor Shep never trusted Cerberus, and effectively took every chance he had to damage them. The Illusive Man wanted something that would make Cerberus stronger, and I had the chance to say "This is for Akuze, you son of a ****."
Selfish, I know. But hey, just because I play Paragon doesn't mean I can't be a jackass once in a while.

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

lotion,can I get a source to how you can immediately clean up Cerberus' mess? who's to say Shep is too busy to respond to a Cerberus screw up?Oh thats right,BW,not you,not me,not alp,not someone with mass,but BW.

Why don't you read. I reapted this a zillion times before.

Shep knows the location of the base. He has the IFF.  Cerberus is small and doesn't have a navy.

If Cerberus screws up, all Shep has to do is place a call to the Council or Hackett, and you'll have a fleet to blow up the Cerberus base and all the mess on it.

Why do you assume Shep has to do everything himself?

Source that they aren't busy as well? There is a reaper war going on after all,and the council and alliance are going to realize "they dun goofed"

Why would you wait AFTER the reapers arrive to check on Cerberus?
That makes no sense. You keep tabs on them.

They should produce something to use agaisnt the reapers before the reapers arrive. Since, you know..any technology or upgrade will need tiem to be mass-produced and incorporated into the fleet.

Heck, have a ship stationed near to blow them away at first sign of trouble.

But you never told the council or the alliance about the base,that wasn't in the game.No one but Shepard knows that Cerberus has the base,and there isn't any indication that TIM is going to give away his new toys.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
Why not? Reapers are ships, not humans. Size matters little.
There's nothing stopping the reapers from installing a new and improved power conduit or EZ core or something on the human-reaper.
Also, anything that was to be a part of a fully-grown reaper, would have to construccted on that base.

you fail...yet again.

Oh, I fail because you can't see my point just because it doesn't fit nicely with your argument, so you're making stuff up as you go and are blatantly ignoring the rest?

That's nice.

Pointing holes in your logic here..

You keep insisting that the base and reaper corpse are useless - which is obviously not true.
For one TIM wouldn't be interested in it if that was true. For other, we know there's reaper tech in it.

It's as simple as taht.

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

You shooting down an argument is taking everything the other person says and posting "I didn't do that so it must be wrong" next to it.
I'm just doing what you do.

Quit trolling.

I say again, if you think I missed something, re-post it.

So when you crop pieces of an argument and disregard them its fine,but when it's done to you something is not right. Hmm...interesting.

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
Why not? Reapers are ships, not humans. Size matters little.
There's nothing stopping the reapers from installing a new and improved power conduit or EZ core or something on the human-reaper.
Also, anything that was to be a part of a fully-grown reaper, would have to construccted on that base.

you fail...yet again.

Oh, I fail because you can't see my point just because it doesn't fit nicely with your argument, so you're making stuff up as you go and are blatantly ignoring the rest?

That's nice.

Pointing holes in your logic here..

You keep insisting that the base and reaper corpse are useless - which is obviously not true.
For one TIM wouldn't be interested in it if that was true. For other, we know there's reaper tech in it.

It's as simple as taht.

Where is the source that the corpse and base aren't useless? link please.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
Why would you wait AFTER the reapers arrive to check on Cerberus?
That makes no sense. You keep tabs on them.

They should produce something to use agaisnt the reapers before the reapers arrive. Since, you know..any technology or upgrade will need tiem to be mass-produced and incorporated into the fleet.

Heck, have a ship stationed near to blow them away at first sign of trouble.

But you never told the council or the alliance about the base,that wasn't in the game.No one but Shepard knows that Cerberus has the base,and there isn't any indication that TIM is going to give away his new toys.

The game ends right after you make that base choice, so the game doesn't give you the choice to call the Alliance. But that is irrelevant.

Again, we're talking about reasonable options and knowledge available to Sheppard.
The option to tell them is therefore there, as a posibility.

Don't start metagaming arguments again.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
Why not? Reapers are ships, not humans. Size matters little.
There's nothing stopping the reapers from installing a new and improved power conduit or EZ core or something on the human-reaper.
Also, anything that was to be a part of a fully-grown reaper, would have to construccted on that base.

you fail...yet again.

Oh, I fail because you can't see my point just because it doesn't fit nicely with your argument, so you're making stuff up as you go and are blatantly ignoring the rest?

That's nice.

Pointing holes in your logic here..

You keep insisting that the base and reaper corpse are useless - which is obviously not true.
For one TIM wouldn't be interested in it if that was true. For other, we know there's reaper tech in it.

It's as simple as taht.

Where is the source that the corpse and base aren't useless? link please.

The source is called TEH GAME. And also common sense. You might have heard of it..or not.

[Someone With Mass]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Pointing holes in your logic here..

You keep insisting that the base and reaper corpse are useless - which is obviously not true.
For one TIM wouldn't be interested in it if that was true. For other, we know there's reaper tech in it.

It's as simple as taht.

Eh, no?

I'm simply pointing out that they can still be salvaged, even if they blow up. That's how we got like 90% of all the Reaper tech we used to get to the base.

Both the fetus and the base can be salvaged, depending on the scenario. 

Modifié par Someone With Mass, 28 juillet 2011 - 11:26 .

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
Why would you wait AFTER the reapers arrive to check on Cerberus?
That makes no sense. You keep tabs on them.

They should produce something to use agaisnt the reapers before the reapers arrive. Since, you know..any technology or upgrade will need tiem to be mass-produced and incorporated into the fleet.

Heck, have a ship stationed near to blow them away at first sign of trouble.

But you never told the council or the alliance about the base,that wasn't in the game.No one but Shepard knows that Cerberus has the base,and there isn't any indication that TIM is going to give away his new toys.

The game ends right after you make that base choice, so the game doesn't give you the choice to call the Alliance. But that is irrelevant.

Again, we're talking about reasonable options and knowledge available to Sheppard.
The option to tell them is therefore there, as a posibility.

Don't start metagaming arguments again.

Ah I see,so when I talk about what happens in the future it's an impossibility,but when you do it it is certainty according to your omnipotent and impeccible "logicz"

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
Why not? Reapers are ships, not humans. Size matters little.
There's nothing stopping the reapers from installing a new and improved power conduit or EZ core or something on the human-reaper.
Also, anything that was to be a part of a fully-grown reaper, would have to construccted on that base.

you fail...yet again.

Oh, I fail because you can't see my point just because it doesn't fit nicely with your argument, so you're making stuff up as you go and are blatantly ignoring the rest?

That's nice.

Pointing holes in your logic here..

You keep insisting that the base and reaper corpse are useless - which is obviously not true.
For one TIM wouldn't be interested in it if that was true. For other, we know there's reaper tech in it.

It's as simple as taht.

Where is the source that the corpse and base aren't useless? link please.

The source is called TEH GAME. And also common sense. You might have heard of it..or not.

Where in the game do they confirm that it isn't useless? I didn't see the vid or read the email tim sends saying "You'll never believe what happened,I GOT THE DATA,dont ask how,just..call it a gift"

You don't get to use the common sense argument if no one else does.

Modifié par Humanoid_Typhoon, 28 juillet 2011 - 11:41 .

[alperez]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

1) CAN lead to bad consequences. But thing is - you know it. You know where the base is. Cerberus screwup can tehrefore be predicted and contained/solved rahter easily.

2) They don't disregard negative consequences as much as push forward despite them.

Also,everything has the potential to bite you in the ass.

So in the immediate aftermath of the reaper invasion or during the invasion itself, you in one case may not have the resources to deal with a problem and in the other may be somewhat busy, your assumption is dealing with a problem represents no problem.

Off course it does, something you don't seem to take into account because it may somewhat negate your base is key to victory argument.

I don't disregard anything.
Unless you missed it yourself, they are BOTH covered in choice 3, by your own words.

In fact, it is you who disregard everything but the two points above.

I alredy explained before why the danger isn't as great. Several time. I proven it in fact, that the potential benefits outstrip the potential negatives.
Practiciality and reason go out the window. Mistrust of Cerberus is the prime motivator here. Not logic.

 
While accepting that there is potential negative consequences you continually portray what could be the worst of those consequences as inconsequential, so your tacitly accepting but downplaying and disregarding them.

I don't disregard anything in fact if you read my entire post you'd have seen this, what i said was if you accept the first 2 parts as true, then because of the choice your forced to make, it informs that choice leading to destroying the base.

Which by definition would also mean the opposite.

Insults will get you nowhere. Good arguments will.

Arguments you don't have b.t.w. Which is why you turn to insults. A demonstration of your impotencein this debate and frustration.

Your the one who came on here with his tearing down arguments line, that somehow you alone were the bastion of logic and reason and anyone who disagreed with your opinion should "cry you a river and in fact that is all they can do".

So if i'm insulting you its because your own actions have warranted it.

Your say i don't have any arguments which is why i turned to insults and this is somehow a demonstration of my impotence and frustration in this debate.

I've argued consistently and logically with someone who's response to my or any argument that disagrees with him is to write a response and then claim that this response proves he was right.

When contradicted his response is, you have no arguments, i've torn down your arguments, but i'm the one frustrated, really, thats the best you can come up with.

You have no acceptance that your argument could be wrong or flawed, revert to practically sticking your fingers in your ears when questioned on why that is and then claim its others that are frustrated.

Modifié par alperez, 28 juillet 2011 - 11:48 .

[Destroy Raiden_]

I think of it like this: Rarely in warfare is there only attack A and win the day in a warzone there are many attack here, gain ground, in order to win the war for good. The collector base was the attack here battle and it was only that a battle a step towards winning or losing the war. The next step was Arrival we'll find out in the end if this along with the past hundred choices we've made during ME - ME3 will win or lose the war.

I also think the collector base was the reapers distracting shepard so they could sneak into the galaxy. I think they needed to also get rid of the collectors sense they served their 10,000 year purpose and sense it appears as though the reapers are looking to upgrade their ascension list the collectors need to go. Shep not only took the bait but also made a room for the humans to become the next accession species by killing off the collectors.

Arrival was also a lore for shep to get him indoctrinated so Harbi could when needed take his mind over (assume control) and force shep to do the next phase of his takeover plan which will be seen in 3 at somepoint. Blowing up the relay too was part of the plan to make the humans weak for their invasion if they're preoccupied with war with the Batarians then they won't see the reapers coming.

I figure the reason why the reapers didn't have kensen take apart her boosters was because they never had any intent on using the arrival relay like she and shep assumed they would to get to Earth. I figure there is a hidden relay out in the galaxy that will connect to Earth's relay as well that's the one they will use. So shep downing the Arrival relay was to trigger war and make Earth distracted but it may've also closed a way into darkspace to flank the reaper fleet.

[alperez]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Who sez I don't accept your view?
I just don't accept it as truly logical, as it relies on filtered and incorrect data.

You don't accept destroying the base can be just as valid a choice as your own keeping the base, so because of this any argument for destroying the base is illogical and relies on filtered and incorrect data in your opinion.

So how exactly are you accepting my view?

Your basis for keeping the base is as illogical and relies on the same date the difference is you've come up with your reasoning why any other data is flawed and illogical and nothing will allow your view be challenged because of this.

I can accept moral reason..altough ti must be some unconventional morals. If trying to save peoepl is immoriall..I don't know what IS moral then. Really... I like SOMEONE to explain to me why is keepign the base immoral?

I can accept solid logical arguments, but I've seen far too few of those.

I can accept roleplaying arguments..But those are outside of the scope of this discussion. Remember, I'm only talking about if the decission is logical/rational. Not if it fits "My Sheppard #4 who hates cerberus with a passion"
Shepard, depending on how you RP him, an make any decision you see fit or that suits him.

But that still has little impact on the logic of that decision.

You don't see the immorality in putting something potentially dangerous into the hands of people you already know are not entirely moral.

Instead you create a scenario where keeping the base is the only way to ensure survival thereby overuling any other moral choice.

As for accepting solid logical arguments, no matter who you argue with if they take a contrary position to you then your response is, your argument is illogical, so of course in your own mind you see far too few logical arguments, your own view on the choice blinds you to anything that disagrees with it and to defend your position, you claim its illogical to disagree with me.

Logic and rationale are also based on the person your roleplaying, if your roleplaying correctly then the logic and rationale should fit that person considering its supposed to be that person making the choice.

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

No snappy come back?

[jedierick]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
Why not? Reapers are ships, not humans. Size matters little.
There's nothing stopping the reapers from installing a new and improved power conduit or EZ core or something on the human-reaper.
Also, anything that was to be a part of a fully-grown reaper, would have to construccted on that base.

you fail...yet again.

Oh, I fail because you can't see my point just because it doesn't fit nicely with your argument, so you're making stuff up as you go and are blatantly ignoring the rest?

That's nice.

Pointing holes in your logic here..

You keep insisting that the base and reaper corpse are useless - which is obviously not true.
For one TIM wouldn't be interested in it if that was true. For other, we know there's reaper tech in it.

It's as simple as taht.

Everyone seems to be blowing your logic to heck and back. For instance, TIM woudlnt be interested in the base if there wasnt stuff on it of use, yet he didnt say a peep, when Sheprd blew an entire REAPER up. Yeah, I am sure there was nothing on the derelict reaper of use besides the IFF, TIM could not have got ANYTHING else usefull off of it. TIM wants the base casue he thinks it poses an advantage, which it might or might not, yet he has a REAPER, a FREAKING REAPER, and thinks the only thing there is usefull on it is the IFF?  What a maroon.

Also, if he coudlnt get anything usefull from the derelict reaper besides the IFF, then why shoudl anyone think he woudl get something from a collector base with a incomplete human reaper that was taken down by hand weapons. Not very logical.

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

I think lotion quietly ceded defeat and left.

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

HomelessGal wrote...

Kinda confused where you're going with the derelict Reaper thing. Cerberus lost contact with the team they sent to investigate it, and circumstances forced you to destroy the Reaper after acquiring the IFF. Its not like Cerberus' actual plan was to grab the IFF and dump the rest of the Reaper into the star.

Well,if they couldn't salvage that op why would you have any faith they could with the base?