1939 réponses à ce sujet

[CroGamer002]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

No, it's not like magic wand. For the most part ME science is rather good. It's far "harder" than most sci-fi's out there.

And the biggest problem with Cerberus is exactly that they can't utilise the tech effectively. They don't have the numbers or resources.

I ask again for a plausible scenario in which cerberus can take over the galaxy.
How will they overpower the many fleets of the other races? The millions of troops? How will they hold the planets and pacify the population?

Except...they do.


"Fearless, disciplined and unrelenting, Cerberus Assault Troopers are the backbone of the Illusive Man's army."

Also don't yell retcon.

No terrorist organization that big could be effective without an army.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

No, it's not like magic wand. For the most part ME science is rather good. It's far "harder" than most sci-fi's out there.

And the biggest problem with Cerberus is exactly that they can't utilise the tech effectively. They don't have the numbers or resources.

I ask again for a plausible scenario in which cerberus can take over the galaxy.
How will they overpower the many fleets of the other races? The millions of troops? How will they hold the planets and pacify the population?

Except...they do.


"Fearless, disciplined and unrelenting, Cerberus Assault Troopers are the backbone of the Illusive Man's army."

So? Ever heeard of the term "private army"? Well funded nad equipped, but small.

Just the Alliance itself has the army numbering in tens of millions. With the Asari, Turians, Salarians and others, the armies of the galaxy number in BILLIONS.

Just how do you expect Cerberus to defeat them? Again, like I said.. It's like Luxemburgs army taking on the US army...or more apt, taking o nthe combined armies of the reast of hte world.



This why this line of arguing is laughable.

You're trying to convince me that a small black ops organiztion, that compromises only incredibly tiny percentage of the human race (the Alliance army is like 1% of human population or something, and Cerberus would be lucky if it's 1% of that), can overpower humanity and all other races combined?.. Wtih sheer military might and numbers...that don't exist?:lol::lol::lol::lol:


Youre making this wayy too easy.....

Modifié par Lotion Soronnar, 29 juillet 2011 - 12:40 .

[Someone With Mass]

Why would they try to take on the other armies? That's just retarded. 

So laugh at your own ignorance. I sure as hell do.

Modifié par Someone With Mass, 29 juillet 2011 - 12:42 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Why would they try to take on the other armies? That's just retarded. 

So laugh at your own ignorance. I sure as hell do.

Becasue that's the point some here have been making. That Cerberus will take over the galaxy and enslave all other races.

Now excuse me while I laugh at your ignorance. You dont' even know waht you're arguing for anymore...

[Someone With Mass]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Becasue that's the point some here have been making. That Cerberus will take over the galaxy and enslave all other races.

Now excuse me while I laugh at your ignorance. You dont' even know waht you're arguing for anymore...

Wait, are you arguing for something?

Good one.

Your "arguments" have been nothing but stonewalling since post 1.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Becasue that's the point some here have been making. That Cerberus will take over the galaxy and enslave all other races.

Now excuse me while I laugh at your ignorance. You dont' even know waht you're arguing for anymore...

Wait, are you arguing for something?

Good one.

Your "arguments" have been nothing but stonewalling since post 1.

Go crawl back under the rock of ingnorance you crawled out from.

All of your arguments have been blow anway, and now you're just trolling around, uncapable of admitting defeat.

You cannot even put togehter a proper reply to the proper post, or answer the point.

[darthnick427]

is this forum still going?! I commented this back when it was around 5 pages. XD

[CuseGirl]

darthnick427 wrote...

is this forum still going?! I commented this back when it was around 5 pages. XD

it won't die until we all get ME-3 and find out that we can "win" regardless of the Collector Base decision

[Pulletlamer]

I have said it and I'll said it again. Giving the base to Cerberus is being blind about it.

Cerberus wins a base with Reaper and Collector technology to study and do his (evil) experiments.

What gets Shepard in exchange? Cerberus and TIM promise that they'll help against the Reapers.

Totally worth it? Not.

I love how in all these 75 page thread discussion some people always base their defense around possibilites, and ignoring all the arguments people with another (opposite) opinion do, then procceding to flame eachoter.

I would prefer destroying the base rather than giving it to a xenophobic organization that has a good record of failures on their experiments.

Anyone trying to defend Cerberus is being stubborn about the fact that you can't give a base full of the most advanced technology in the galaxy in exchange for a promise.

It's totally stupid. How could you give one of the most important and advanced types of technologies to a dude that says: Yes, don't worry, I will totally help you against the Reapers. Seriously?

What prevents him from not keeping his promise?

Also saying that in the end everyone will have Reaper technology it's not a fact nor an argument to defend your position.
That's being irresponsible about it, in hopes that in the end you will be rewarded because Cerberus will help you. That's also (arguably) metagaming.

The responsible choice is destroying the base. Not giving it to Cerberus, the Alliance, or the Council. No one deserves it.

Of course it's my opinion and will most likely be ignored like thousands of well defended arguments on this thread.

Because it's the rule #11 of the internet.

Modifié par Pulletlamer, 29 juillet 2011 - 01:39 .

[CuseGirl]

Pulletlamer wrote...

The responsible choice is destroying the base. Not giving it to Cerberus, the Alliance, or the Council. No one deserves it.

I agree. I dont think either choice is right or wrong but keeping the base is a million times more risky, arguably reckless.

[Someone With Mass]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Go crawl back under the rock of ingnorance you crawled out from.

All of your arguments have been blow anway, and now you're just trolling around, uncapable of admitting defeat.

You cannot even put togehter a proper reply to the proper post, or answer the point.

Broken record, much?

You must be a real hit at parties.

I haven't seen anything that goes against my point at all, just you going on about how trustful the Delusive Man is, even if there's absolutely nothing that says that he's trustworthy beyond his own words, which I must say that is not exactly the right source. And how a Reaper fetus can be salvage from a massive explosion, but the base can't for some reason.

That and you refuse to accept that there are other ways for Cerberus (the angels of truth in your little world) to get their hands on technology without directly giving them a potential weapon of mass destruction.

Oh, and PMCs are quite common in Mass Effect, so TIM having a private army ("private" have no indication on the scale of the army, by the way) is not that unbelievable.

Cloning and brainwashing is also a alternative.

That, and the Alliance and several other military factions are getting their asses kicked by the Reapers, because the Reapers are actually intelligent enough to go after the military first. So Cerberus can be quite dangerous if they're deploying the right tactics.

Modifié par Someone With Mass, 29 juillet 2011 - 01:49 .

[Someone With Mass]

Pulletlamer wrote...
It's totally stupid. How could you give one of the most important and advanced types of technologies to a dude that says: Yes, don't worry, I will totally help you against the Reapers. Seriously?

And he says that the technology can help against the Reapers and beyond.

Which could mean that he'd use the same technology to help humanity get its "righful place" in the galaxy (Even if humanity hasn't earned a square inch of it yet).

And I don't want that, because I think other species have the right to thrive from the wonders of the galaxy just as much as humanity has.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Pulletlamer wrote...

I have said it and I'll said it again. Giving the base to Cerberus is being blind about it.

Cerberus wins a base with Reaper and Collector technology to study and do his (evil) experiments.

What gets Shepard in exchange? Cerberus and TIM promise that they'll help against the Reapers.

Totally worth it? Not.

totally wortth it? Yes.
Because you don't have anything else up your sleeve agaisnt the repaers.

They promised to halep you agaisn the collectors and they did.

I love how in all these 75 page thread discussion some people always base their defense around possibilites, and ignoring all the arguments people with another (opposite) opinion do, then procceding to flame eachoter.

Because reasonable people don't use possiblities to formulate an asnwer?
Because what is possible and what what is not should not play a role in decision making?

I would prefer destroying the base rather than giving it to a xenophobic organization that has a good record of failures on their experiments.

Exepriment that yields usefull data is not a faliure by defitnition.
Aslo, Cerberus is not xenophobic. Dominance is a perfectly normaland logical  thing for any species to strive for.

Anyone trying to defend Cerberus is being stubborn about the fact that you can't give a base full of the most advanced technology in the galaxy in exchange for a promise.

It's totally stupid. How could you give one of the most important and advanced types of technologies to a dude that says: Yes, don't worry, I will totally help you against the Reapers. Seriously?

What prevents him from not keeping his promise?

Why wouldn't he keep his promise? the reapers will reap humanity. That includes him and cerberus. And Cerberus is there to safeguard humanity. Tehre is no reason for him to withold that help.

And what prevents him from keepign that promise? the fact oyu know where the base is and have the IFF. He either gives it to you, or you take it from him by force.

Also saying that in the end everyone will have Reaper technology it's not a fact nor an argument to defend your position.
That's being irresponsible about it, in hopes that in the end you will be rewarded because Cerberus will help you. That's also (arguably) metagaming.

Yes it is..because one of the arguments was that giving Cerberus the tech will give them an edge post-reaper war. If everyone has theri own reaper corpse to study, that negates the Cerberus advantage and renders that argument moot.

As opposed to being irresponsible to the entire galaxy, by blowing the base in the HOPES you will magicly stumble into another weapon agaisnt the reapers?

And no, that is not metagaming.

The responsible choice is destroying the base. Not giving it to Cerberus, the Alliance, or the Council. No one deserves it.

No one deserves it?
Sez who?
Who made Sheppard the high and only arbiter of who deserves what? Adn what does it even matter. Who deserves what is irrelevant. What the galaxy neeeds now is revelant. And it needs every advantage agasint the reapers it can get.

Your Sheppard doesn't deserve to live....

Modifié par Lotion Soronnar, 29 juillet 2011 - 02:14 .

[Barquiel]

CuseGirl wrote...

Pulletlamer wrote...

The responsible choice is destroying the base. Not giving it to Cerberus, the Alliance, or the Council. No one deserves it.

I agree. I dont think either choice is right or wrong but keeping the base is a million times more risky, arguably reckless.

I would have given the base to the Council. But as the only option is to hand it to the racist megalomaniac, I blow it up.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Someone With Mass wrote...
Broken record, much?

You must be a real hit at parties.

I haven't seen anything that goes against my point at all, just you going on about how trustful the Delusive Man is, even if there's absolutely nothing that says that he's trustworthy beyond his own words, which I must say that is not exactly the right source. And how a Reaper fetus can be salvage from a massive explosion, but the base can't for some reason.

That and you refuse to accept that there are other ways for Cerberus (the angels of truth in your little world) to get their hands on technology without directly giving them a potential weapon of mass destruction.

Oh, and PMCs are quite common in Mass Effect, so TIM having a private army ("private" have no indication on the scale of the army, by the way) is not that unbelievable.

Cloning and brainwashing is also a alternative.

That, and the Alliance and several other military factions are getting their asses kicked by the Reapers, because the Reapers are actually intelligent enough to go after the military first. So Cerberus can be quite dangerous if they're deploying the right tactics.

Ohh...The fail is so strong with you.. It's over 9000...really.


Youre arguing point no one made, misquoting, ignoring things and basicly spewing garbage. But I'll bite...Let me humor you here.

As I sad - you have as much reason to trust TIM as everyone else you run into.
If you trust the Rachnii queen, but not TIM, then you're a hypocrite. In both cases you have just the word (in TIMs case you have even more. He helps you and revives you), and the Queen is even more dangerous than Cerberus.

Total trust of TIM is totally unnecessary b.t.w.
The base pays off even if you assume TIM will betray you.

I never said the base cannot be salvaged, so I don't know where you got that crap from. Moving on.

WMD? What WMD?

Never said Cerberus doesn't have a private army. What I said that this army is small. Because that's what it is by defitnion and by common sense.
Saying Cerberus can take on the Alliance is like saying the Blackwater can take over the US.

Cloning? Brainwashing? Both take a lot of time and resources - and cerberus doesn't have either (the reapers are coming) All those clone soldiers have to be equipped, trained and transported.
Armies don't exist in vacuum. As they say, novices argue strategy, experts argue logistics. And Cerberus doesn't have the logistics to suport a large army.
Not to mention that the other races could also use cloning.
The very idea that Cerberus could create an army of a size sufficient to threaten any race in secret, and support it..laughable.

What else? Yeah, Cerberus doesn't have a navy. The Alliance does. Shep knows the bases location. Do the math.
Cerberus can do little if the Alliance/Sheppard is ready for them.
And any sane Sheppard would be prepared for such a contingency.

[Someone With Mass]

Okay, I'll level with you. The reason I trust the rachni queen ( which has absolutely nothing to do with the topic, I might add) is because she is the last of her kind, and she has nothing to gain on being a treacherous douchebag like TIM. If she, for some stupid reason decides to go against us, she'll get the treatment her ancestors received, in form of genocide.

Not to mention that she has nothing to gain by turning on us.

And you are clearly in denial if you CAN'T READ OR COMPREHEND THE REASONS I JUST GAVE TO YOU.

And where does it say that Cerberus having just a small army is common sense? Are you saying it is? Ha. I think someone needs to look up the definition of that expression.

If they have the resources to double the size of the ship that was already incredibly expensive in the first place, why can't they have an army that's ready to strike when the right opportunity arrives? Like when the Alliance is busy with the Reapers?

If you honestly think that the only way to wage a war is by going up against the enemy head on, then I can just say that you should study more battles.

It's not even funny to constantly point out the same crap to you over and over again, just because you think YOUR opinion is the only one that counts.

Just go somewhere else, because you're not having an argument when you're constantly throwing petty and pathetic insults at the one you're trying to have a discussion with.

Modifié par Someone With Mass, 29 juillet 2011 - 02:27 .

[Pulletlamer]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

totally wortth it? Yes.
Because you don't have anything else up your sleeve against the reapers.

They promised to help you against the collectors and they did.

Either way when you give it to Cerberus you still don't have anything up your sleeve against the reapers.

It's not like Shepard continues with TIM after the SM. Or TIM gives the base to Shepard. Instead, you are giving the base to TIM. Big difference.

Also one succesful promise doesn't stand up for a full record of failures and terrorist (or if you prefer, criminal, doesn't matter if you agree to call them terrorist or not) actions.

Remember he betrays you on the Collector Ship. Necessary risk or not, that proves he will satnd up over you or anyone else to achieve his objectives.

Because reasonable people don't use possiblities to formulate an asnwer?
Because what is possible and what what is not should not play a role in decision making?

Not when you're trying to defend your choice of agreeing to give the base to Cerberus.

Saying that they "might help" and guessing what it's going to happen it's not an answer, it's your hopes for what you think should and it's going to happen. We don't know.

Also yes possibilities play a role in decision making. That's the very reason why I destroy it. Since we are arguing about possibilities, as well as he could help you, he could not. And combining that with the fact that he is not very thrustworthy (in my opinion, everyone can interpretate him one way or another, the fact is Shepard is relutant to believe him more than one time), it adds up to not giving him the base.

Exepriment that yields usefull data is not a faliure by defitnition.
Aslo, Cerberus is not xenophobic. Dominance is a perfectly normaland logical  thing for any species to strive for.

Well they're (not all, some yes: aka Derelict Reaper and Overlord) maybe not failures in regards of data, but they are very morally cuestionable.

Why wouldn't he keep his promise? the reapers will reap humanity. That includes him and cerberus. And Cerberus is there to safeguard humanity. Tehre is no reason for him to withold that help.

And what prevents him from keepign that promise? the fact oyu know where the base is and have the IFF. He either gives it to you, or you take it from him by force.

Why? For the very same reason he wouldn't care (and regret) to kill his scientists/opreatives and affiliiates to reach his personal goals.

The fact is you know nothing about him from the game. You just know that he has fame of being terrorist and that he is willing to help against the reapers. From that  information alone to going to decide to give him the base is like giving the fate of  the galaxy in the hands of an irresponsible child in hopes he won't screw it up after he plays with it.

Yes it is..because one of the arguments was that giving Cerberus the tech will give them an edge post-reaper war. If everyone has theri own reaper corpse to study, that negates the Cerberus advantage and renders that argument moot.

As opposed to being irresponsible to the entire galaxy, by blowing the base in the HOPES you will magicly stumble into another weapon agaisnt the reapers?

And no, that is not metagaming.

No. Being irresponsible would be accepting the risk of giving it (the advanced tech) to a personal organization (Cerberus). Or governement, doesn't matter (Council, Alliance). Governements are full of failures.

And that they will have an edge post-reaper war is why I didn't give them the base! Because assuming the galaxy survives they will dominate the governements. And hoping he will assure human dominance is being stubborn, again. You are assuring Cerberus dominance and power. That it has common goals with humanity doesn't means Cerberus is willing to accept the Alliance or any other human power.

No one deserves it?
Sez who?
Who made Sheppard the high and only arbiter of who deserves what? Adn what does it even matter. Who deserves what is irrelevant. What the galaxy neeeds now is revelant. And it needs every advantage agasint the reapers it can get.

You Sheppard doesn't deserve to live....

Just because he brought you back to life doesn't mean you owe him anything. He plays his cards as he sees to favor his own interests. Bringing back Shepard is the most useful card to play? Let's do it.

That's how it works. Bringing that as an excuse to redeem all his past actions it's being blind. besides Shepard didn't ask to be ressurrected, even at the beginning of the game he asks TIM why did he ressurect him.

And Shepard is the protagonist of the game and the one that has the will to decide, so yeah. Having an advantage against the reapers it's not the same as giving advantage to Cerberus.
And I'll decide if my Shepard(s) (since I have multiple playthroughs, all destroying the base:happy:) deserve to live, thank you. Besides it's not like I asked you to agree with my Shepard's actions, which casually you don't know.

Modifié par Pulletlamer, 29 juillet 2011 - 02:36 .

[Someone With Mass]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Cloning? Brainwashing? Both take a lot of time and resources - and cerberus doesn't have either (the reapers are coming) All those clone soldiers have to be equipped, trained and transported.
Armies don't exist in vacuum. As they say, novices argue strategy, experts argue logistics. And Cerberus doesn't have the logistics to suport a large army.
Not to mention that the other races could also use cloning.
The very idea that Cerberus could create an army of a size sufficient to threaten any race in secret, and support it..laughable.

And now you're doing what you've constantly told us not to do, which was to make things up, which also makes you a hilarious hypocrite.

It doesn't say anywhere that Cerberus is completely out of resources, (guess what that army costs. Money!) except in Retribution, but that apparently didn't sidelined them for long.

By the way, have you ever heard of guerilla warfare? Hit and run tactics? Scorched earth campaigns? Cerberus can do something among those lines to deal a devestating blow to the Alliance if they want to.

They can sabotage ships, do ambushes and lure the Alliance away from places with false information or kill important leaders. You know. The things they've done during their organization's whole lifetime.

Modifié par Someone With Mass, 29 juillet 2011 - 03:40 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

Pulletlamer wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

totally wortth it? Yes.
Because you don't have anything else up your sleeve against the reapers.

They promised to help you against the collectors and they did.

Either way when you give it to Cerberus you still don't have anything up your sleeve against the reapers.

It's not like Shepard continues with TIM after the SM. Or TIM gives the base to Shepard. Instead, you are giving the base toTIM. Big difference.

Also one succesful promise doesn't stand up for a full record of failures and terrorist (or if you prefer, criminal, doesn't matter if you agree to call them terrorist or not) actions.

remember he betrays you on the Collector Ship. necessary risk or not, that proves he will satnd up over you or anyone else to achieve his objectives.

Incorrect. You still do. The data from that station will still exist.
It will be in Cerberus hands. Weahter they give it to you or you have to get it from them matters little as the researhc data exists.
If you blow that base up..how muhc of that data will there be? If any.

And again, a history of faliure is not entirely correct. Criminal actions aren't really relevant to this, considering what you're up against. I'd work with a raping, baby-eating mass murderer if it would save the galaxy.

And TIMS objectives? Or should I see Cerberuses? HUMANITY.
Hence why it makes no sense to begin with that he'd betray humanity. TI's exactly because I know TIM follows his goals at any cost that I feel even more confident giving him the base.

Because reasonable people don't use possiblities to formulate an asnwer?
Because what is possible and what what is not should not play a role in decision making?

Not when you're trying to defend your choice of agreeing to give the base to Cerberus.

Saying that they "might help" and guessing what it's going to happen it's not an answer, it's your hopes for what you think should and it's going to happen. We don't know.

Also yes possibilities play a role in decision making. That's the very reason why I destroy it. Since we are arguing about possibilities, as well as he could help you, he could not. And combining that with the fact that he is not very thrustworthy (in my opinion, everyone can interpretate him one way or another, the fact is Shepard is relutant to believe him more than one time), it adds up to not giving him the base.

Lol...so logic and reason are OK, but only if they are used to defend your position? Don't make me laugh.
Really, your entire argument is laughable.

Yes, assesing what Cerberus might do, CAN do..and what is even possible for them to do IS criticly important.
We don't know what will happen. But we can deduce what CAN happen and how probable the outcomes are.

So, one has to asses just how dangerous giving the base to Cerberus is.
Cerberus is limtied by it's size, resources, personell..and most importantly time and Sheppard himself.

If you claim that Cerberus will screw the galaxy up, then you have to back that up with a plausible scenario of how that woud happen. "Repaer tech" is not the answer. Be specific.

I have been specific. I have clearly outlined exactly why Cerberus is a low-level danger and how it can be prevented form doing any great damage. In light of that, and the potential bonuses of the base, the choice is pretty straightforward.

Exepriment that yields usefull data is not a faliure by defitnition.
Aslo, Cerberus is not xenophobic. Dominance is a perfectly normaland logical  thing for any species to strive for.

Well they're (not all, some yes: aka Derelict Reaper and Overlord) maybe not failures in regards of data, but they are very morally cuestionable.

That is certanly true. Plenty of things Cerberus done is either moraly questioanble or downright despicable.

Yet, what is also true is that the races fo the galaxy don't have hunders of years of time for slow and steady research to close the gap between them and the reapers.

Why wouldn't he keep his promise? the reapers will reap humanity. That includes him and cerberus. And Cerberus is there to safeguard humanity. Tehre is no reason for him to withold that help.

And what prevents him from keepign that promise? the fact oyu know where the base is and have the IFF. He either gives it to you, or you take it from him by force.

Why? For the very same reason he wouldn't dare to kill his scientists/opreatives and affiliiates to reach his personal goals. The fact is you know nothing about him from the game. You just know that he has fame of being terrorist and that he is willing to help against the reapers. From that  information alone to going to decide to give him the base is like giving the fate of  the galaxy in the hands of an irresponsible child in hopes he won't screw it up after he plays with it.

Eh? I know what he stands for and what Cerberus stands for. Half of your ships is crewed by Cerberus personell. Talk to them and you'l lsee what Cerberus is about.
Why would he doom himself and humanity? For what pusrpose? Simply put, screwing humantiy is counter-productive to his whole purpose and the purpose of Cerberus.

And frankly, TIM is the only one besides Sheppard who takes the reaprs seriously and is trying to do something about it - you really call that irresponsible? Even Hackett admits that. Given that, an his agreesive research approach, I don't see a reason to NOT give him the base. He's the one to probably get the most out of it in the shortest time span.

Really, from what I've seen, people seem to blow the base up because they hate/mistrust TIM. That's their main and only reason. A highly emotianl response. Not a logical one.
Even more reainforced by the notion that tehy tend to "accuse" their opponents (me) of being TIM lovers and holding Cerberus as a holy grail of Truth and rubissh like that. That simple categorization, those replies, tell more about the poster than me. Because they show that the hate/love of TIM is a cental thing in their mind, and a prime motivator.

Yes it is..because one of the arguments was that giving Cerberus the tech will give them an edge post-reaper war. If everyone has theri own reaper corpse to study, that negates the Cerberus advantage and renders that argument moot.

As opposed to being irresponsible to the entire galaxy, by blowing the base in the HOPES you will magicly stumble into another weapon agaisnt the reapers?

And no, that is not metagaming.

No. Being irresponsible would be accepting the risk of giving it (the advanced tech) to a personal organization (Cerberus). Or governement, doesn't matter (Council, Alliance). Governements are full of failures.

And that they will have an edge post-reaper war is why I didn't give them the base! Because assuming the galaxy survives they will dominate the governements. And hoping he will assure human dominance is being stubborn, again. You are assuring Cerberus dominance and power. That it has common goals with humanity doesn't means Cerberus is willing to accept the Alliance or any other human power.

Again...give technolgoy tha can save the galaxy to NO ONE..destroy it.. TAHT is being responsible? :blink:Absolutely redicolous.

What would be irresponsible would be to destroy it without thnking over the potential benefit, and the need that galaxy has for it. Or just giving it away without even thinking about potantial consequences.

And here we area again with the "Cerberus will take over the world" theory. Which has no logical or reasonable backing up. HOW will Cerberus take over other races?
You dont' know.
You don't even have a theory..no viable plan.
But you just assume they will...even tough they reasonably have no capabiltiy to do so - reaper tech or no reaper tech.

Not to mention you just ignored the bit about Cerberus NOT having an edge post-repaer war because of all the reaper corpses.

[jedierick]

[quote]Lotion Soronnar wrote...

totally wortth it? Yes.
Because you don't have anything else up your sleeve agaisnt the repaers.

They promised to halep you agaisn the collectors and they did.


[quote]


I laugh at the fact that you keep coming to this, yet you have been proven wrong time and time again. Using your own facts.

We DO in fact have technology to help beat the reapers already. The Normandy herself is a prime example of a ship that can take the reapers on and win. Everything about that ship, which is small comapred to other battle cruisers, has what we need to defeat the reapers.

The floating eye things in the ship field, used Reaper tech and lasers, the shields and or hull held together.
The collectors ship beam, which was reaper tech, was no match for the cannon we mounted on the Normandy, it ended up slicing through the ship like butter.

That tech alone, mounted and multiplied on other ships in the fleet, and or all the ships in the galaxy would be able to take on the reapers. What we lack is a united front from other alien species. If we have that, along with the tech we already have from the Normandy, then the galaxy has a good chance at beating the reapers.

If TIM wants some real tech that coud help against the reapers, go to Ilos, use all the skills they have or coudl use at the base, to get info from the most complete prothean ruin\\city available to them. They took on the reapers and fought against them for centuries.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Cloning? Brainwashing? Both take a lot of time and resources - and cerberus doesn't have either (the reapers are coming) All those clone soldiers have to be equipped, trained and transported.
Armies don't exist in vacuum. As they say, novices argue strategy, experts argue logistics. And Cerberus doesn't have the logistics to suport a large army.
Not to mention that the other races could also use cloning.
The very idea that Cerberus could create an army of a size sufficient to threaten any race in secret, and support it..laughable.

And now you're doing what you've constantly told us not to do, which was to make things up, which also makes you a hilarious hypocrite.

It doesn't say anywhere that Cerberus is completely out of resources, (guess what that army costs. Money!) except in Retribution, but that apparently didn't sidelined them for long.

Nope, it only makes you stupid for not undestanding the basics of how an army - ANY army - functions.

I never said Cerberus is out of resources - which is again, a lie you made up - I said they don't have enough to credibly match any single race, let alone them combined.

Cerberus has founding of a few billion. The other races of the Galaxy have funding in the trillions.
Cerberus cannot compare.

The other races of the galaxy have the army and manpower in the tens of millions. Cerberus cannot compare.

The other races have vast fleets of cruisers and dreadnoughts. Cerberus has no military-grade ship, except for the Normandy, which was a huge investment on their part. And it technicly isn't even their anymore.

And logisticly, Cerberus cannot maintain a vast army/fleet, even if it were in position to somehow make one.

By the way, have you ever heard of guerilla warfare? Hit and run
tactics? Scorched earth campaigns? Cerberus can do something among those
lines to deal a devestating blow to the Alliance if they want to.

They
can sabotage ships, do ambushes and lure the Alliance away from places
with false information or kill important leaders. You know. The things they've done during their organization's whole lifetime.

All things they can do without the base. And having the base won't change their abiltiy to do so in any significant way.

In fact, having the base means Cerberus has to alocate resurces and personell to it - a known location which you can storm, and not only take out Cerberus assets, but capture their research and take it for yourself! A doube bonus for you.

Not to mention if you have EDI and Miranda with you, you know a lot more about Cerberus and their operations, and can more effectively stop them.




Simply put, saving the base and keeping tabs on it, taking precautions in case Cerberus doesn't keep their end of the bargain = smart.

Blowing the base up, wihout any backup plan to fall to = stupid.

Modifié par Lotion Soronnar, 29 juillet 2011 - 04:26 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Okay, I'll level with you. The reason I trust the rachni queen ( which has absolutely nothing to do with the topic, I might add) is because she is the last of her kind, and she has nothing to gain on being a treacherous douchebag like TIM. If she, for some stupid reason decides to go against us, she'll get the treatment her ancestors received, in form of genocide.

Not to mention that she has nothing to gain by turning on us.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA.....oh boy.

She has nothing to gain? Really. How about her life and salvation of her race? Suddenly hte Rachni can't get indoctrinated? Or persuaded to work for the repaers?

How easily you are ingoring the negative coneqeunces of hte Rachnii Queen..
So having a alien horde, with vast number of soldier and starship is LESS of a danger than a small organization that has no warships?

You are so casually dismissing the difficulty and danger of dealign with the negative consequences of her turnign agaisnt you, while it at hte same time overblowing the negative consequences of keepign hte base.

So, when I say "we''l deal wiht TIM if he turns on us...complete with a plan on exaclty how to do that and minimize any potential trouble. - that is nonsense.

Yet when you say "we'll just deal with the rachnii Queen and kill em all" (even knowing hte trouble the galactic community had with Rachnii), that is suddenly smart????

OH THE HYPOCRISRY.

Sit down, you flunked class!

And where does it say that Cerberus having just a small army is common sense? Are you saying it is? Ha. I think someone needs to look up the definition of that expression.

Because bigger powers have bigger armies. Because nations have acess to all the resoucres of a nation and thus they have infinately more manpower and hardware than any small orgnaizion with limited funding that has to be under the radar.
Because recruits and equipment don't grow on threes. Because LOGISTICS.
And because you fail so much it goes beyond the impossible.

If they have the resources to double the size of the ship that was already incredibly expensive in the first place, why can't they have an army that's ready to strike when the right opportunity arrives? Like when the Alliance is busy with the Reapers?

Normandy 2 was very expensive, and it was a strain on cerberus. Tehy made ONE of it. A frigate. You know how many cruisers the Alliance has?
Not to meniton that soldiers require training, equipment, food, facilities - all of those are expsnsive. And you need recruits. Something that Cerberus, being a illigeal organization on the run from the law, won't have a easy time getting. You can't exactly put recuitment posters in the paper. Not to mention that the more people are in Cerberus, the bigger the chance that one of them will betray you to the Alliance/Council.

Any army Cerberus can come up with is pittence compared to the Alliance army.

Just go somewhere else, because you're not having an argument when you're constantly throwing petty and pathetic insults at the one you're trying to have a discussion with.

This modus operandi is something you are very familiar with...doing it from page 1 and all...

[Someone With Mass]

I'd really like you to point out where I said that Cerberus is going to take on the whole galaxy head-on by themselves.

[Lotion Soronarr]

jedierick wrote...

I laugh at the fact that you keep coming to this, yet you have been proven wrong time and time again. Using your own facts.

We DO in fact have technology to help beat the reapers already. The Normandy herself is a prime example of a ship that can take the reapers on and win. Everything about that ship, which is small comapred to other battle cruisers, has what we need to defeat the reapers.

The floating eye things in the ship field, used Reaper tech and lasers, the shields and or hull held together.
The collectors ship beam, which was reaper tech, was no match for the cannon we mounted on the Normandy, it ended up slicing through the ship like butter.

That tech alone, mounted and multiplied on other ships in the fleet, and or all the ships in the galaxy would be able to take on the reapers. What we lack is a united front from other alien species. If we have that, along with the tech we already have from the Normandy, then the galaxy has a good chance at beating the reapers.

If TIM wants some real tech that coud help against the reapers, go to Ilos, use all the skills they have or coudl use at the base, to get info from the most complete prothean ruincity available to them. They took on the reapers and fought against them for centuries.

I laugh at your faliure to comprehend the situation. You have proven me wrong? When?


Normandy can take a reaper on an win? When did that happen?
You taken on a damaged Collector ship (it's been damaged by GUARDIAN on horizon and the turian patrol) and barely won.

Do you know how many reapers there are? And are you forgeting that the thanix cannon came from studying reaper tech?

Really, there's a alien armada of super ships coming at you, and you're like "we don't need to do any more research. Let's not try to be as ready as possible, let's insted relax secure in out superiortiy! Who needs better shields that might end up saving thousands?"


An Protheans? Protheans had a massive empire...and were compeltely destroyed. Their tech is inferior to repaer teach. Yet you want ot ignore repaer teach and focus on prothen tech? PURE BRILLIANCE!

Modifié par Lotion Soronnar, 29 juillet 2011 - 04:35 .

[Someone With Mass]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA.....oh boy.

She has nothing to gain? Really. How about her life and salvation of her race? Suddenly hte Rachni can't get indoctrinated? Or persuaded to work for the repaers?

How easily you are ingoring the negative coneqeunces of hte Rachnii Queen..
So having a alien horde, with vast number of soldier and starship is LESS of a danger than a small organization that has no warships?

You are so casually dismissing the difficulty and danger of dealign with the negative consequences of her turnign agaisnt you, while it at hte same time overblowing the negative consequences of keepign hte base.

So, when I say "we''l deal wiht TIM if he turns on us...complete with a plan on exaclty how to do that and minimize any potential trouble. - that is nonsense.

Yet when you say "we'll just deal with the rachnii Queen and kill em all" (even knowing hte trouble the galactic community had with Rachnii), that is suddenly smart????

OH THE HYPOCRISRY.

Sit down, you flunked class!

I'm sorry, did you have a point with all that babbling that I can't for the life of my understand, since you've obviously never bothered to invest in a spellchecker?

And yes, I believe in the rachni queen, because I also believe in redemption. TIM is obviously not going to stray from his path of being a selfish ******, so I'm not going to give him potential weapons to help him reach his delusional goals.

The rachni have already faced genocide once, and I think they, as every sentient being in the galaxy, have the right to fight for their survival.

Because I don't think all aliens are evil the second one of them behaves in a way I don't like.

Then again, I wouldn't expect Cerberus apologists which believes TIM's every word to the equivalent of the ten commandments to understand that there's something that's bigger than humanity's survival at stake.