1939 réponses à ce sujet

[Lotion Soronarr]

Someone With Mass wrote...

I'd really like you to point out where I said that Cerberus is going to take on the whole galaxy head-on by themselves.

I'm not sure if it was you or someone else who started that argument ,but you did jump int to defend it.

And if you concidde to the point that Cerberus cna't take over the galaxy, then they can't enslave other races. Meaning the whole argumnt of not keeping the base because Cerberus will use it to enslave other races is shot to pieces.

[Someone With Mass]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

An Protheans? Protheans had a massive empire...and were compeltely destroyed. Their tech is inferior to repaer teach. Yet you want ot ignore repaer teach and focus on prothen tech? PURE BRILLIANCE!

Weren't you the one who said before that just because they were defeated doesn't make their technology inferior/useless?

[Lotion Soronarr]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

An Protheans? Protheans had a massive empire...and were compeltely destroyed. Their tech is inferior to repaer teach. Yet you want to ignore repaer tech and focus on prothen tech? PURE BRILLIANCE!

Weren't you the one who said before that just because they were defeated doesn't make their technology inferior/useless?

I said it doesn't maek theri tecnology useless. It is inferior tough.

You might want to check up the marked part. See, there's no contradiction there. Researching prothean tech is a nice bonus.

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

lol,Lotion keeps saying Cerberus is the savior of the galaxy,then he says they don't have the means to utilize the tech,he think he is on the middle ground.

We aren't arguing that saving the base was wrong,we are arguing that it isn't the absolute surefire savior method he thinks it is.He refuses to see the other side of the equation,he keeps arguing he has cold hard logic,but he simply doesn't,he thinks giving all the base to an organization with questionable reputation and goals isn't just as sensible as not giving it to them.

He says ME3 isn't relevant,then he says it is.He continues to "blow holes" in theories by ignoring them or cutting out a few words that further his on view.The big problem is that he thinks he is neutral,but he absolutely isn't.

[Someone With Mass]

Yeah, Cerberus won't be able to contribute with anything of significance unless they have an army of their own.

And don't say "but the Alliance is getting technology from them" because I don't think the Alliance alone can defeat the Reapers, and many races and factions outright hates Cerberus and probably would never strike a deal with them.

Modifié par Someone With Mass, 29 juillet 2011 - 05:05 .

[jedierick]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

jedierick wrote...

I laugh at the fact that you keep coming to this, yet you have been proven wrong time and time again. Using your own facts.

We DO in fact have technology to help beat the reapers already. The Normandy herself is a prime example of a ship that can take the reapers on and win. Everything about that ship, which is small comapred to other battle cruisers, has what we need to defeat the reapers.

The floating eye things in the ship field, used Reaper tech and lasers, the shields and or hull held together.
The collectors ship beam, which was reaper tech, was no match for the cannon we mounted on the Normandy, it ended up slicing through the ship like butter.

That tech alone, mounted and multiplied on other ships in the fleet, and or all the ships in the galaxy would be able to take on the reapers. What we lack is a united front from other alien species. If we have that, along with the tech we already have from the Normandy, then the galaxy has a good chance at beating the reapers.

If TIM wants some real tech that coud help against the reapers, go to Ilos, use all the skills they have or coudl use at the base, to get info from the most complete prothean ruincity available to them. They took on the reapers and fought against them for centuries.

I laugh at your faliure to comprehend the situation. You have proven me wrong? When?


Normandy can take a reaper on an win? When did that happen?
You taken on a damaged Collector ship (it's been damaged by GUARDIAN on horizon and the turian patrol) and barely won.

Do you know how many reapers there are? And are you forgeting that the thanix cannon came from studying reaper tech?

Really, there's a alien armada of super ships coming at you, and you're like "we don't need to do any more research. Let's not try to be as ready as possible, let's insted relax secure in out superiortiy! Who needs better shields that might end up saving thousands?"


An Protheans? Protheans had a massive empire...and were compeltely destroyed. Their tech is inferior to repaer teach. Yet you want ot ignore repaer teach and focus on prothen tech? PURE BRILLIANCE!

Myself and everyone else on this board have blown holes in your theories, everytime we do, you change the subject to soemthing else, or ignore the facts that have been presented to you. The reaosn why you never win is becasue you refuse to admit that your theories and assumptions coudl be as wrong as anyone elses. All ANYONE has is assumptions what could or coudl not be gained from the base, myself included.

You are pretty blunt, I didnt say the current Normandy took on a reaper and won, I said they have the tech to do so.  The collectors ship coudl have easily repaired itself by the time we see it after Horizon, and you assume that the damage done on Horizon was significant. Again, holes in your logic.  And by the way, the Normandy SR1 did take on a reaper, and did win, did it have help, yes, but I have never said the Normandy coudl win on its own. The tech on the Normandy SR2 has updated weapons sheilds and hull armor, it surivied a battle with the reaper drones in the destroyed ship field, and it also survived a head on attack with a collectrs ship.Sharing this tech with the galalxy and presenting a united front agaisnt the reapers is the start of a plan.

No I dont know how many reapers there are, we know more than 10 based off of the screen shot we saw at the end of ME2.  And I am not denying that the thannix cannot was from reaper tech, good, great, why point that out?

I never said we dont need to do any more research either, we can further study what we already have, use it and expand on PROVEN tech that we know works. Colector base, maybe there is something, Normandy SR2 tech, FOR SURE THING. Mount 30 of those thannix cannons on a larger ship and see how much damamge it can do, make a larger verion of the thannix cannons for orbital fdefenses and see how much damage that will do.  The shields on the normandy, improve upon those, do better with what we have, the collectrrs base might have some shield tech, but the Normandy SR2 in FACT DOES have better shield tech. All of this tech on the Normandy 2 has already gone up against reaper tech and surived.


Yeah the protheans were destroyed, but it took CENTURIES to do so, it didnt happen on a year, it was a very long time. So they had tech and weapons to put up a fight, and they were on their own. Using their tech and giving it to a united galalxy woudl provide an edge they currently dont have.

And yes, I do want to ignore the incomplete larva reaper tech that was destroyed using habd weapons. It is an unsure thing, the tech we currently have is a sure thing. I dont trust TIM or Cerberus with it anyway.

[Kaiser Shepard]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Yeah, Cerberus won't be able to contribute with anything of significance unless they have an army of their own.

I'd say 40% of all enemies you face in ME3 pretty much constitutes an army.

Quite ironic, if you think about it:
"You could have built an army for the money you spent getting me back."

If only you knew, Shepard, if only you knew...

Modifié par Kaiser Shepard, 29 juillet 2011 - 05:34 .

[starwars5393]

I agree that Cerberus couldn't take over galaxy they just don't have the resources and neither does the council clearly the terminus systems would be in citadel space but giving Cerebus the tech is still an irresponible action.

That much power in the hands of one organization, government or army is bound to lead towards corruption. I mean look at the tech in there it liquified people not to mention what else could be in there. Sure there was probably valuable weapons tech such as collector particle beam rifle but why not just study the ones on Horizon and same goes for cybernetic advancements and biotic improvements just study the dead collectors on Horizon. That base was just full of abominations it had to be destroyed you just cant trust anyone with that tech.

If you were to keep the base what good would it do the Reapers are coming it takes a while to study and reengineer pieces of tech and on top of that manufacture enough to make a difference. Same thing happened to the Germans in WW2 they had the best tank in the world the Tiger but couldn't make enough of them compared to Russian T-34 and American Sherman so there supierority didn't matter they just outflanked, outmanuevered and outnumbered.

But keeping or destroying the base boils down to a morale issue. What good does winning the war do you if you become what you defeat, commit the same atrocities that your enemy does. I'd rather go rather go down in history as a noble civilzation that defended to the last man making the enemy pay for every step they took than one that was victorious and became ultimately what they strived to destroy. It's just like when the US won the revolution the army offered Washington position as King. Sure forming a strong central government such as a monarchy may been an advantage for the US being able to unify the country better, keep control better and better organization to defend itself from a counterattack from Britain but Washington knew what was right and turned down the army's offer. He did not fight King George III merely to become King George I. Same with shepard he did not spend all that time fighting the collectors and reapers to see the galaxy become them.

I see where you are coming from Lotion Soronnar you have to do everything you can to save life itself there will be tough decisions every second such as letting a planet be destroyed to save and bolster your forces for a more advantegous moment or when you really need them. Tough decisions like this happen all the time in the military. But you have to draw a line at some point.

"Those who give up their liberty, beliefs, ideal and morality for temporary safety neither deserve liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin

[Lotion Soronarr]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

lol,Lotion keeps saying Cerberus is the savior of the galaxy,then he says they don't have the means to utilize the tech,he think he is on the middle ground.

Lol..When did I ever say cerberu is the savior of hte galaxy?

I'm saying that the role of Cerberus in the repaer conflict is as a reasearch branch. Their purpose is (or should be) to provide informaion and rechnology.
Due to their size they do not have the means to use that technolgoy themselves to the full extent. What is so hard to understand?
If they uncover tech taht increses ships shield - they don't have enough warships - (do they even have any at all?) to make any difference. But if they give that tech to the Alliance/council, then that can make a huge difference.

Where is the contracidtion there?

We aren't arguing that saving the base was wrong,we are arguing that it isn't the absolute surefire savior method he thinks it is.He refuses to see the other side of the equation,he keeps arguing he has cold hard logic,but he simply doesn't,he thinks giving all the base to an organization with questionable reputation and goals isn't just as sensible as not giving it to them.

That depends on what kind of "wrong" you're talkign about. In terms of actual outcome (which you cannot know when you're making it), best probable outcome, morals?

I'm talking about what choice is the most logical and which gives hte biggest chances of sucesfully defeating the repaers. That choice MAY turn out to be the wrong one, evne if it IS the msot logical at the time.
As tings often do in life. 99% of sucess still means that 1% of faliure.
Just because every bit of data you have points to conclusion. A that doesn't mean it's the "right" choice - even if it is hte logical and msot probably the right choice.
Do you uinderstand the difference?


And you keep ignoring the reapers, being fixated only on Cerberus. Youre priorities are seriously messed up.

He says ME3 isn't relevant,then he says it is.He continues to "blow holes" in theories by ignoring them or cutting out a few words that further his on view.The big problem is that he thinks he is neutral,but he absolutely isn't.

You think you're smart, but you absolutely are not.

When did I say Me3 is irrelevant, then contradicted that?
How about you stoipy liying? How abotu you stop putting words in my mouth, stop twisting what I said?

I am waaay more neutral and objective than you can ever hope to be. You proven that multiple times by now.

[Lotion Soronarr]

jedierick wrote...
Myself and everyone else on this board have blown holes in your theories, everytime we do, you change the subject to soemthing else, or ignore the facts that have been presented to you. The reaosn why you never win is becasue you refuse to admit that your theories and assumptions coudl be as wrong as anyone elses. All ANYONE has is assumptions what could or coudl not be gained from the base, myself included.

All the holes are in your theories. the subject changing is yours. How goes that
"Before pulling out a splinter out of your brothers eye, first take out the log from yours"

You cannot defeat logical argument with anti-logic and far-fetchedd assumtipon with nothing to support them., yet you think you can...

You are pretty blunt, I didnt say the current Normandy took on a reaper and won, I said they have the tech to do so.  The collectors ship coudl have easily repaired itself by the time we see it after Horizon, and you assume that the damage done on Horizon was significant. Again, holes in your logic.  And by the way, the Normandy SR1 did take on a reaper, and did win, did it have help, yes, but I have never said the Normandy coudl win on its own. The tech on the Normandy SR2 has updated weapons sheilds and hull armor, it surivied a battle with the reaper drones in the destroyed ship field, and it also survived a head on attack with a collectrs ship.Sharing this tech with the galalxy and presenting a united front agaisnt the reapers is the start of a plan.

You cannot honestly base the abiltiy to take on a reaper based on he Collectors. Collectors and reapers are not the same. The Collector ships isn't the same as a reper.

Also, you seem to think ships can be repeaired over night..just like that. Teh Collector ships fought twice in a short time-frame. And it was damaged, the scans confirmed that IIRC. Or do you think they'll flee Horizon just like that?

Yes, the tech on the normady certanly is usefull, and spreading that tech around IS a good start. However, one should always aim for more.

No I dont know how many reapers there are, we know more than 10 based off of the screen shot we saw at the end of ME2.

I'm pretty sure we saw hunderds..if not more.

I never said we dont need to do any more research either, we can further study what we already have, use it and expand on PROVEN tech that we know works. Colector base, maybe there is something, Normandy SR2 tech, FOR SURE THING. Mount 30 of those thannix cannons on a larger ship and see how much damamge it can do, make a larger verion of the thannix cannons for orbital fdefenses and see how much damage that will do.  The shields on the normandy, improve upon those, do better with what we have, the collectrrs base might have some shield tech, but the Normandy SR2 in FACT DOES have better shield tech. All of this tech on the Normandy 2 has already gone up against reaper tech and surived.

You are again assuming the Collector ship is equal to a reaper. It is not. It has no reason to be.

Soeverign took fire from an entire FLEET and it's barriers held. Meanwhile the Collector ships gets damaged from a few GUARDIAN guns on horizon.
Not to mention that you can take out the Collector ship even without the thanix cannon, so that should give you a good idea of it's power.
And yes..you have Joker:happy:

Yeah the protheans were destroyed, but it took CENTURIES to do so, it didnt happen on a year, it was a very long time. So they had tech and weapons to put up a fight, and they were on their own. Using their tech and giving it to a united galalxy woudl provide an edge they currently dont have.

Or it took centrureis because their empre is very large, and completely eradicating an entire species is no small task, even fore repars. Some things just take a helluvalot of time.

[Someone With Mass]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...
I'd say 40% of all enemies you face in ME3 pretty much constitutes an army.

Quite ironic, if you think about it:
"You could have built an army for the money you spent getting me back."

If only you knew, Shepard, if only you knew...

He/she does now. 

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

Lotion you have convinced yourself that the benefits ABSOLUTELY outweigh the risk,we are simply saying,we are saying there is no way of knowing,so you simply cannot imply your opinion is a fact.

But you continue to twist everyone's words into your own view of what is logical and right.

So go ahead...quote this post and turn it into "Omg I am the master of all that is logical and therefore I am right." we all know you will.

Which is why you have lost.

Modifié par Humanoid_Typhoon, 29 juillet 2011 - 07:11 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

starwars5393 wrote...

I agree that Cerberus couldn't take over galaxy they just don't have the resources and neither does the council clearly the terminus systems would be in citadel space but giving Cerebus the tech is still an irresponible action.

That much power in the hands of one organization, government or army is bound to lead towards corruption. I mean look at the tech in there it liquified people not to mention what else could be in there. Sure there was probably valuable weapons tech such as collector particle beam rifle but why not just study the ones on Horizon and same goes for cybernetic advancements and biotic improvements just study the dead collectors on Horizon. That base was just full of abominations it had to be destroyed you just cant trust anyone with that tech.

I don't get it how teh base is an "abomination". Why? Becasue peoepl were liquified in it?
The base is a THING. It has no inherent moral value.
Why did all those people die? Make something usefull of it.

Ironicly, did you know that many medical procedures and knowledge came as result of torture? That thousands upon thousand of lives were saves because that data was studied, and not destroyed?

If you were to keep the base what good would it do the Reapers are coming it takes a while to study and reengineer pieces of tech and on top of that manufacture enough to make a difference. Same thing happened to the Germans in WW2 they had the best tank in the world the Tiger but couldn't make enough of them compared to Russian T-34 and American Sherman so there supierority didn't matter they just outflanked, outmanuevered and outnumbered.

time is off the essence. That is a good point.
Which is exactly why Cerberus is good at researchign that. TIM pushes research forward at a breakneck pace. If anyone can get something usefull in time, it's him.
Plus, not all technical advancement is hard to implement. And some knowledge can be aplied iimediately and directly (like for example, finding out  weak spot in reaper armor or power supply)

Either way, relying on the base alone would not bea good idea. Get every advantage you can get. Play every last card you have.

But keeping or destroying the base boils down to a morale issue. What good does winning the war do you if you become what you defeat, commit the same atrocities that your enemy does. I'd rather go rather go down in history as a noble civilzation that defended to the last man making the enemy pay for every step they took than one that was victorious and became ultimately what they strived to destroy.

Go down in history? What history? There will be no one left to report about your heroic last stand.

And what do you mean by "become what you defeat"? What attrocities are we talking about?
The base was used to build a repaer, so analyzing the machines there has a high chance of turnign up something usefullk agaisnt them.

Unless you think that all that base is good for is thorwing people into the blender? Reapers are mostly mechanical.
Those pods were for the organic part. There's a lot more in that base - namely all the mechanical parts and machienery used to build it.

"Those who give up their liberty, beliefs, ideal and morality for temporary safety neither deserve liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin

The proer quote would be:
They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

And my response to taht would be:

They who can give up essential saftey to obtain a little temporary liberty, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

Lotion you have convinced yourself that the benefits ABSOLUTELY outweigh the risk,we are simply saying,we are saying there is no way of knowing,so you simply cannot imply your opinion is a fact.

But you continue to twist everyone's words into your own view of what is logical and right.

So go ahead...quote this post and turn it into "Omg I am the master of all that is logical and therefore I am right." we all know you will.

Which is why you have lost.

The loser is you.

You keep missing the point by lightyears. We don't know what WILL happen. so  we cannot base our choices/decisions on that.
We know what MAY happen and how likely something is to happen..and what can we do to facilitate/avoid it.

With that in mind, the pottential benefits outweigh the negatives. Why?
Because I can predict the negative adn so something about them before they even happen. Becasue the negatives are limited in scope and severity.

Pft..accusing me of lying and twisting words...which is exactly what you have been constantly doing! Go look in the mirror the next time before you open your mouth (or type anything)

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

You keep missing the point by lightyears. We don't know what WILL happen. so  we cannot base our choices/decisions on that.
We know what MAY happen and how likely something is to happen..and what can we do to facilitate/avoid it

Wow thank you for for saying what we have been telling you this whole time.

[dahoughtonuk]

I disliked who unless you played ME1, ME2 seemed to force you towards stupid good or mindless evil. I wish my paragons instead of just thumbing my nose at the illusive man could say. I blew it up because of the reaper. Personally I believe both should have advanatges and disadvantages.

Blown up the base - Less of Cerberus indoctrinated, but research not as far along
Kept the base, Research further along, but more of Cerberus is indoctrinated.

This is due to the Reaper embryo which you'd didn't properly dissipate by not blowing up the base, but Cerberus has working models.

I think most of the major decisions will be double edged,

Modifié par dahoughtonuk, 29 juillet 2011 - 07:31 .

[Someone With Mass]

By the way, it's Collector technology we're talking about. Not Reaper technology.

"Oh, but they were building a Reaper. Surely there must be some Reaper technology there!"

You don't know that. There's very little that indicates that there are some Reaper tech of value that we can't get of Sovereign's remains. Or if there's any Reaper tech at all in that base that we can't get elsewhere. Or if the technology is useful at all.

And if it is Collector technology, then I think we're better off without it, since Reaper technology is clearly better, even if Collector tech gives people a slight edge in some departments.

And if I was forced to give it to anyone, I certainly wouldn't give it to Cerberus, given their history with alien technology (read: the brutal experiments in Retribution, where the subject and many involved died).

[alperez]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...





I adressed this before..and again..you people coudlnt' read to save your sorry life.

I explained why dealding with Cerberus is as insignificant problem compared ot Cerberus trheat. I also explained how to deal with it.
Of course, I assume Sheppard and the Alliance have a bit of brainpower, so they won't wait for the reapers to start invading before they check up on the base!

Really...what are the Chances for Cerberus to screw up something EXACTLY at the same time ther reapers arrive? If they screw up, it bound ot be before or after.
If it's before, you can easy deal with just them. And you don't allow it to be an after.
Park a cruiser at that relay, and blow hte base at the first sign of trouble.

Your explanation was that Cerberus aren't a threat no matter what benefit they may get from the tech/info on the base and even if they were, the threat was so insignificant that this threat could be snuffed out easily.

Your explanation doesn't take into account either the potential of what that tech/info could be or the possibility that post or during the reaper invasion the alliance/council forces may not be in a position to handle that threat.

So now rather than concern yourself with these things you've come up with a scenaro where they would snuff out a potential threat before the threat has occured, that they would just organise a check up on the base and if there was a threat deal with it immediately, is taking into account something you already know hasn't happened.

When exactly did you tell the alliance to check up on the base?

At what point in the game was this given to you as an option?

I never suggested Cerberus would screw up at the precise moment the reapers arrive what i said was in the immediate aftermath or during the invasion itself, which may mean that the alliance/council whoever may be slightly busy with other things or unable to actually spare resources to cover a potential threat.

Read the above.

Yes, you do disregard things. Namely that you have no real idea of how Cerberus could be such a big threat.
I'm not downplaying the consequences, you are overblowing them.

Other people have argued that "Cerbers + reaper tech will take over the galaxy!" and such silly theories have been dismissed easily.

Unless you have a clear example of how Cerberus could be such a massive danger to the galaxy that researching the base simply isn't worth it?

You are downplaying the consquences simply because in your logic the potential and again i use the word potential consequences all fit nicely into a box you can handle, you never take into account anything outside of this nice little box of yours, therefore your downplaying the consequences.

I'm taking into account all conceiveable consequences so of couse some of these are worst case scenario ones, something you refuse completely to accept is that there could be a worse case scenario at all which proves my point.

Again with the dismissed easily argument, just because your own view won't allow you to accept you could be wrong, you instead fallback into your safety position that anything that doesn't concur with your view has been dismissed or discreditied.

I've given numerous examples of how Cerberus could be a massive danger to the galaxy, but rather than even for a moment accept something that disagrees with your own rosy picture of how events would play out, you revert to the same argument you've been using all along, that whatever benefit you get from the base is worth more than any potential negative.

Your position is so entrenched that its pointless to continue arguing, but it is fun.

I'm hardly the only one in this discussion (altouhg I appear to be the most vocal one). So no, I'm harldy alone out here.

And see...you are frustrated here. Again, with nothing but accisations aimed at me.

I am quite open to some of my arguments being wrong. When someone adds something of value, I accept it.
For example, SWM brought the point of the reaper corpse explosion.

I HAVE torn down your arguments. But you just cannot accept it. The one with fingers in his ears is you, not me.

I'm accusing you of behaving in a certain manner, in showing a refusal to accept anything that doesn't conform to your own opinion, nothing more.

Your last line proves everything i or anyone else has ever accused you of, you've torn down my arguments by refusing to accept that a contrary view to your own could be right and that you could be any way wrong.

You say your willing to accept that SOME of your arguments are wrong just confirms that you already have reached a position where you believe that SOME cannot be, which is the point.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Someone With Mass wrote...

By the way, it's Collector technology we're talking about. Not Reaper technology.

"Oh, but they were building a Reaper. Surely there must be some Reaper technology there!"

You don't know that. There's very little that indicates that there are some Reaper tech of value that we can't get of Sovereign's remains. Or if there's any Reaper tech at all in that base that we can't get elsewhere. Or if the technology is useful at all.

And if it is Collector technology, then I think we're better off without it, since Reaper technology is clearly better, even if Collector tech gives people a slight edge in some departments.

And if I was forced to give it to anyone, I certainly wouldn't give it to Cerberus, given their history with alien technology (read: the brutal experiments in Retribution, where the subject and many involved died).

Collector tech in collector ship, reper tech in reaper.

Also,what part of "Sovereign was blown to bits and ONLY A SMALL PART WAS RECOVERED (IIRC; less that 30%)" do you fail to understand?

[dahoughtonuk]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

By the way, it's Collector technology we're talking about. Not Reaper technology.

"Oh, but they were building a Reaper. Surely there must be some Reaper technology there!"

You don't know that. There's very little that indicates that there are some Reaper tech of value that we can't get of Sovereign's remains. Or if there's any Reaper tech at all in that base that we can't get elsewhere. Or if the technology is useful at all.

And if it is Collector technology, then I think we're better off without it, since Reaper technology is clearly better, even if Collector tech gives people a slight edge in some departments.

And if I was forced to give it to anyone, I certainly wouldn't give it to Cerberus, given their history with alien technology (read: the brutal experiments in Retribution, where the subject and many involved died).

Collector tech in collector ship, reper tech in reaper.

Also,what part of "Sovereign was blown to bits and ONLY A SMALL PART WAS RECOVERED (IIRC; less that 30%)" do you fail to understand?

Still look what happened when 90% iof a reaper was recovered. This why I think this might be a double edged resuly with the slighlty better option likely to be give base to Cerberus despite what the team says.

[Someone With Mass]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Also,what part of "Sovereign was blown to bits and ONLY A SMALL PART WAS RECOVERED (IIRC; less that 30%)" do you fail to understand?

I can understand all of it.

If you want a metal sample, just take one from Sovereign's remains. Want an eezo sample, do the same there.

And I think that his remains contains more than the fetus, which was far from completion and exploded something fierce.

Also, as I've said before, there being Reaper technology besides the fetus is a pure speculation, since Harbinger can probably more than likely do what Legion does and access the databanks the Reapers have in dark space at any time and not have the information stored on a terminal which can be hacked or taken over.

And even if it did contain Reaper tech, my last option (the scrape of the barrel) would be to give it to Cerberus, since that'd be such a waste compared to giving it to anyone else that can put the technology to a good use on a large scale on a short time instead of keeping it for themselves like Cerberus most definitely would.

Especially when Cerberus is lead by a mustache twirling douche-nozzle like TIM.

[alperez]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Wrong...again.

I can accept destroying the base is a valid choice (from a RP perspective), but it's not a logical/smart choice. Those are two different thnigs.
And most of you in this thread cannot seem to grasp that difference. So fragile is your ego that you cannot accept the choice you made in-game to be anything but the best. Haven's forbid your Shepaprd did something that wasn't really smart!

Cold, caluculated logic is backing me up. You? Not so much.

Again your reverting to type, its illogical to destroy the base because you believe it to be illogical not because there could be a logical reason to do so. Your as usual allowing your own opinion cloud any logical reasoning as to why this could be the case, you've taken a position and any contrary position to your own must be illogical is your entire argument.

I've never once suggested that my choice is the best or the right one or that its even the most logical one , what i've said consistently is that i have reasons why i make the choice, your the person who keeps reverting to any other choice is illogical, so in your own analogy it must be because of the fragility of your own ego.

Your saying  cold calculated logic backs you up and it doesn't in my case only proves that the fragility of your own ego won't allow any argument other than your own to be logical, so every argument that disagrees with you isn't based on cold calculated logic.

Considering I'm trying to save the universe? nope. Besides, theere's planty of decent people in Cerberus too.

There;s no point in saving the universe if your dooming it also, thats the basic premise in why handing a base to people who may not use what they find for only beneficial purposes could be immoral.

As for the decent people of Cerbeurs, we've seen some yes, we've also seen many more that aren't. Considering TIM calls most if not all of the shots its him more than anyone else we really need to know about.

But i'll give you another scenario, if you were TIM and you wanted to show Shepard Cereberus in the best light, wouldn't it make sense you try to portray your organisation as made up of decent people?

I mean filling the normandy with the most racist zealots of your organisation may not be the best way to convince someone that your organisation is actually altruistic.

SMARTEST way. Not only way. Don't put words in my mouth.

Your original argument was destroying the base dooms the galaxy and was the only logical choice, your now trying to amend it to possibly dooms the galaxy and its the smartest choice, i'm not putting words into your mouth, i'm using your own in response.

An argument is illogical if I can use known game lore, logic and common sense to poke it full of holes. Which  Idid with the arguments presented to me so far.
I'm right because I've PROVEN to be right.

An argument is illogical if your position is so entrenched that any logical reason why your position is wrong, is immediately dismissed as illogical.

You pick the parts of game lore, the parts of logic and the common sense arguments that agree with your posiition, ignore anything that disagrees with it as being against these and then claim your right because you say so.

Where have you been proven right?

Everything you say has a counter argument against it, yet because you disagree with the counter argument you dismiss it and claim this in some ways proves your right.

Nothing will prove any of us right until me3 comes along, when no doubt all of us will be proved wrong.

Modifié par alperez, 29 juillet 2011 - 08:09 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

alperez wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

I adressed this before..and again..you people coudlnt' read to save your sorry life.

I explained why dealding with Cerberus is as insignificant problem compared ot Cerberus trheat. I also explained how to deal with it.
Of course, I assume Sheppard and the Alliance have a bit of brainpower, so they won't wait for the reapers to start invading before they check up on the base!

Really...what are the Chances for Cerberus to screw up something EXACTLY at the same time ther reapers arrive? If they screw up, it bound ot be before or after.
If it's before, you can easy deal with just them. And you don't allow it to be an after.
Park a cruiser at that relay, and blow hte base at the first sign of trouble.

Your explanation was that Cerberus aren't a threat no matter what benefit they may get from the tech/info on the base and even if they were, the threat was so insignificant that this threat could be snuffed out easily.

Correct.

Your explanation doesn't take into account either the potential of what that tech/info could be or the possibility that post or during the reaper invasion the alliance/council forces may not be in a position to handle that threat.

It does actually. By acknowledging the threat exists, you prepare for it. And that doesn't chance the fact ath the threat IS minor...compared to the Reapers..or let's say..Rachni

So now rather than concern yourself with these things you've come up with a scenaro where they would snuff out a potential threat before the threat has occured, that they would just organise a check up on the base and if there was a threat deal with it immediately, is taking into account something you already know hasn't happened.

What do you mean by "now" I've been mentioning that scenario and plan for ages. READ THE DAMN THREAD.
And what do you mena by the last bit?


When exactly did you tell the alliance to check up on the base?
At what point in the game was this given to you as an option?

At what point did hte game tell you you won't be able to do that? How do you know you dont' get that option in DLC or ME3?
And really, what does it even matter? I'm talking about the logical stance from WITHIN THE UNIVERSE.
Your'e still thinking as a player.


I never suggested Cerberus would screw up at the precise moment the reapers arrive what i said was in the immediate aftermath or during the invasion itself, which may mean that the alliance/council whoever may be slightly busy with other things or unable to actually spare resources to cover a potential threat.

If 1 cruiser is too much to cover a potentialy vital research station, and a possibel minor threat, then the Alliance/council is doing something wrong.
This shouldn't be hard really.. Keep tabs on the station - as soon as the reapers come (or even before) make a quick evalution of the situation and act accordingly - blow it up and have the ship re-join the fleet or do something else.

Read the above.

Yes, you do disregard things. Namely that you have no real idea of how Cerberus could be such a big threat.
I'm not downplaying the consequences, you are overblowing them.

Other people have argued that "Cerbers + reaper tech will take over the galaxy!" and such silly theories have been dismissed easily.

Unless you have a clear example of how Cerberus could be such a massive danger to the galaxy that researching the base simply isn't worth it?

You are downplaying the consquences simply because in your logic the potential and again i use the word potential consequences all fit nicely into a box you can handle, you never take into account anything outside of this nice little box of yours, therefore your downplaying the consequences.

I'm taking into account all conceiveable consequences so of couse some of these are worst case scenario ones, something you refuse completely to accept is that there could be a worse case scenario at all which proves my point.

Again with the dismissed easily argument, just because your own view won't allow you to accept you could be wrong, you instead fallback into your safety position that anything that doesn't concur with your view has been dismissed or discreditied.

I've given numerous examples of how Cerberus could be a massive danger to the galaxy, but rather than even for a moment accept something that disagrees with your own rosy picture of how events would play out, you revert to the same argument you've been using all along, that whatever benefit you get from the base is worth more than any potential negative.

Your position is so entrenched that its pointless to continue arguing, but it is fun.

You've given NO plausibe examples or how Cerberus can be a massive danger to the galaxy - especialy not compared to other potential dangers that paragon players just glady accept.

You are taking into account fantasy scenarios, not plausibe consequences. You might as well start considering a scenario where TIM farts and the galaxy is set on fire. Your ideas are laughable. Me with rosy glasses? Yours arne' even see-trough. You can't see nuttin'.

Half of the quesitons I've been askign you've been continously avoiding - because you had no satisfactory answers.

Normally, I don't take any pleasure in tearing poeples arguments apart - but for you I'm more than willing to make an exception.

I'm accusing you of behaving in a certain manner, in showing a refusal to accept anything that doesn't conform to your own opinion, nothing more.

Your last line proves everything i or anyone else has ever accused you of, you've torn down my arguments by refusing to accept that a contrary view to your own could be right and that you could be any way wrong.

You say your willing to accept that SOME of your arguments are wrong just confirms that you already have reached a position where you believe that SOME cannot be, which is the point.

Every line of yours proves what I've been saying about you.
And that your own words just mirror your own behavior. Your ego is so fragile that you cannot accept that the decision you made was simply not sound. Go fight the windmills son! Go on....

Your redicolous accustations are as hollow as your arguments. No substance, just hot air.

Some of my argumetns are correct? SHOCKING!

You're basicly asking me to accept that you are right. Since our views are oppisite, both of us can't be right at the same time.

Why should I accept something that is totaly wrong and I've proven it to be wrong?
I won't.
And I don't have to.
You have a problem with that? Deal with it.

Modifié par Lotion Soronnar, 29 juillet 2011 - 08:14 .

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

You keep missing the point by lightyears. We don't know what WILL happen. so  we cannot base our choices/decisions on that.
We know what MAY happen and how likely something is to happen..and what can we do to facilitate/avoid it

Wow thank you for for saying what we have been telling you this whole time.

Let me just repeat your own post for your consideration.Read our posts then read your post.

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

No one is trying to get you to except the paragon choice as the right one,we are saying that you cannot say which is the right one,because there is enough data to make a smart logical decision either way.You keep arguing logic,but you flat out refuse to use it if it doesn't work in your favor.

Modifié par Humanoid_Typhoon, 29 juillet 2011 - 08:41 .