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[Commander_Adept]

celuloid wrote...

Commander_Adept wrote...
Eh, I disagree. I liked Mass 2's story more than Mass 1's, not that the first game's was bad (Story was pretty much the only good thing about Mass 1). The characters really are a story. Shepard's mounting an assault against a mysterious race of things that are abducting entire goddamned colonies of humans and nobody cares except for a terrorist group that Shepard has had bad experiences with in the past and is forced to work with? Pretty damn good story...

That's not a story, but a wiki article stub. Sadly, this stub does not get developed any further during the game. Okay, there is EDI one-liner where she says those mysterious things are repurposed Protheans, but that is about it. And of course, Arnold awaits you at the end of long series of inter-disconnected missions.

The characters really are a story.

I had to pick this one separately. This notion may very well be the concept behind ME2 story. However, characters in ME2 functioned only as a more detailed peek at ME universe. Nothing connected them together. Thus, they don't make a story, they are just an excuse for a bunch of short levels.

Noveria, the worst mission in the series?

Huh? This makes me want to scream insults, so instead I will try to write down my impressions of Noveria and some core mission from ME2.
Contestants: Noveria versus Some ME2 mid-game mission that had at least one NPC you could talk to (hint: the only one was Horizon).

Noveria:
Noveria ticket is handed to you by Anderson+Udina when you get your ship. You can get some superficial information from Volus trader in Wards about research and goods coming from there. You can choose to go to Noveria any time you want.
Roleplaying time!
A) Go get Benezia's daughter first to acquire leverage against her mother.
Go straight to Noveria.
As we see, initial exposition to Noveria is decent.
You arrive at space port and are immediately confronted with local security who do not believe you are a Spectre.
Roleplaying time!
A) Let your weapons down, potentially risking being shot afterwards.
Keep your weapons aimed at security, potentially risking casualties on both sides and diplomatic incident.
Either way, tension is interrupted by Gianni Parasini who greets you to Noveria. Unfortunately, Benezia left for some research facility and you need to get there, but weather is bad and you need a garage pass from administrator Anoleis.
Roleplaying time!
A) Investigate further, learn that Anoleis is corrupt, find evidence against him and exchange it for the pass.
Investigate further, learn that Parasini was sent to find evidence against Anoleis and rat her out. Parasini and Anoleis kill each other.
C) Investigate further, give evidence to Parasini and have Anoleis arrested.
D) Investigate further, learn that local Hanar shopkeeper smuggles weapons, rat him out to Anoleis and risk a confrontation with Krogan mercenary who wanted those weapons.
Anyway, you get the garage pass, hop in Mako and set for Peak 15 Research facility.
Roleplaying time.
A) Take Liara with you, let her settle things with her mother, while risking possible trauma from such an encounter or risking Liara's betrayal.
Let Liara stay on the ship, risking she will hold a grudge against you for denying her to see her mother or for whatever action that might happen while meeting Benezia.
While on Peak 15, firstly you have to reconnect landrails and reactivate reactor to bring train system online. After that, you take a train to the main facility. You meet Captain Ventralis there, who will give you a pass to some labs, saying Benezia went there.
Roleplaying time.
A) Go to said labs, eliminate Rachnis there, go back, everyone turns on you and you have to kill them.
Recon the surroundings first.
So you try to recon surroundings. You learn that there are patients suffering from engineered virus and they need a cure.
Roleplaying time.
A) Just hack the door to maintenance area, but if you get back, everyone will turn on you and you will have to kill them.
Make the cure, everyone is grateful and you get access to maintenance area with minimum innocent victims.
After that you finally get to Benezia and confront her. You learn about indoctrination, Sovereign and Mu Relay (it leads to Ilos and Conduit, the main McGuffin of ME1). In the end you have to kill Benezia, since she is indoctrinated. When Liara is present, she is able to say goodbye, provide at least some comfort to her mother and get a closure.
And finally, you have to decide the fate of the Rachni queen, the last surviving member of supposedly extinct species who was interrogated for her knowledge of Mu Relay.
Roleplaying time.
A) Kill the queen. It eliminates potential threat to galactic peace, but destroys the whole alien culture.
Spare the queen. You might gain strong ally in the future, but it all could be just a bluff and the queen will start another Rachni war.
Mission summary: Your reasoning and morality were tested ample times during the mission. The decisions influence the sequels.

Horizon:
Horizon ticket is handed to you by TIM just before you are involuntarily sent there.
As we see, initial exposition to Horizon is non-existent.
You arrive at some field outside some non-descript place on Horizon. Those pesky mysterious things show up and you shoot them. Then you shoot them some more and get a laser. You talk to NPC and discover the site has tower defenses. You shoot, duck, shoot and then push a button so that the defense system can repair itself. You shoot some more bugs, zombies and floating thingie. Defense system repairs itself and bugs simply bug off. Congratulations!!! You have accomplished nothing! Then Virmire survivor shows up.
Roleplaying time!
A) I work for Cerberus, because they mean well. (Paragon)
I work for Cerberus. (Neutral)
C) I work for Cerberus, because that is the way of the gangsta. (Renegade)
Mission summary: You gained 54 experience, Collector particle beam and a big headache. You learned that Collectors sometimes transform into this annoying Übercollector who spouts nonsense 24/7.

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I hope it is clear why ME1 core story is 1000x better.

It most certainly isn't. Noveria was far too long with the worst Mako portion of the entire game. It also was horribly designed, the pre-peak 15 portions. I'm not saying that anything about the roleplaying or story was bad, but the game in general was just typically horrible at Noveria. The level design was very poor, the AI Core puzzle was unnecessary, the Rachni were annoying and everywhere, the Benezia fight was even more difficult than Saren to kill, and with the gameplay of Mass 1, it just was far too easy to die, even on the easiest difficulties since Shepard doesn't know how to ****ing fight anything. 


Don't get me wrong, Horizon was far and wide the worst part of Mass 2 story wise... But gameplay wise, definitely better than Noveria. If you were to re-do Mass 1 with Mass 2 gameplay, I'd likely change my tune. The gameplay ruins the story for Mass 1 almost.

[HappyHappyJoyJoy]

Commander_Adept wrote...
It most certainly isn't. Noveria was far too long with the worst Mako portion of the entire game. It also was horribly designed, the pre-peak 15 portions. I'm not saying that anything about the roleplaying or story was bad, but the game in general was just typically horrible at Noveria. The level design was very poor, the AI Core puzzle was unnecessary, the Rachni were annoying and everywhere, the Benezia fight was even more difficult than Saren to kill, and with the gameplay of Mass 1, it just was far too easy to die, even on the easiest difficulties since Shepard doesn't know how to ****ing fight anything. 

Don't get me wrong, Horizon was far and wide the worst part of Mass 2 story wise... But gameplay wise, definitely better than Noveria. If you were to re-do Mass 1 with Mass 2 gameplay, I'd likely change my tune. The gameplay ruins the story for Mass 1 almost.

Noveria had the worst Mako portion?  Driving through a few passes and taking out a few geth as you slowly approached Peak 15 was bad - why? 

The level design was great, it was built like you'd expect a station to be designed (i.e. not with crates strewn everywhere for cover.)  The AI Core puzzle was just Towers of Hanoi and was easy.  And the only time I think I died was at the final boss fight, and I'm pretty poor at combat.  

Noveria was tons better than any of the core ME2 missions. 

[celuloid]

Commander_Adept wrote...

celuloid wrote...
I hope it is clear why ME1 core story is 1000x better.

It most certainly isn't.

ME1 core story is better for these reasons:
1. Presence of two villains who get real screen estate and provide audience with challenge, discuss their plans with the player and try to justify their actions. In the end, they are seen more as tragic figures than a one-dimensional faceless evil who repeats the same phrases ad-hoc during shootouts.
2. Rich story that, in first third introduces players to the setting of the game by doing quests on huge Citadel hub world, in second third sets players on a detective mission to uncover mystery behind the supposed villain and his motivation, and in final third rushes players to stop the real villain.
3. Actual vehicle sections are incorporated into main plot, thus making everything seem bigger and supporting epic feel of the storyline. Perfection lies in the details.
4. Supporting characters play actual role in the storyline, thus making it more character-centric than the famed sequel which is supposedly focused on characters. Okay, Mordin magically develops anti-Collector measure, but Liara is daughter of major villain, Wrex unlike any ME2 staffer aggresivelly confronts player over plot point and Tali gives player evidence to make the whole journey possible.
5. ME1 does not auto-start any core mission.
6. ME1 core story features around 10x times more roleplaying, of 10x better quality, as I have demonstrated in previous post.
7. ME1 main character is a man with the right training who found himself at the right spot to learn about the danger and steer the fate of the galaxy. ME2 main character is The Chosen One with 12 Sidekicks, cured from death, with big guns and big bugs to fry.

Noveria was far too long with the worst Mako portion of the entire game.

I thought the worst portion was climbing those 90 degree steep hills on Uncharted worlds.
Jokes aside, I hope ME3 has vehicle sections without geysers, incorporated in the main story, because ME2 felt smaller and monotone due to their lack.

It also was horribly designed, the pre-peak 15 portions. I'm not saying that anything about the roleplaying or story was bad, but the game in general was just typically horrible at Noveria. The level design was very poor, the AI Core puzzle was unnecessary, the Rachni were annoying and everywhere, the Benezia fight was even more difficult than Saren to kill, and with the gameplay of Mass 1, it just was far too easy to die, even on the easiest difficulties since Shepard doesn't know how to ****ing fight anything.


Don't get me wrong, Horizon was far and wide the worst part of Mass 2 story wise... But gameplay wise, definitely better than Noveria. If you were to re-do Mass 1 with Mass 2 gameplay, I'd likely change my tune. The gameplay ruins the story for Mass 1 almost.

Do we argue story or gameplay? Truth be told, I personally always judged ME1 only on the merits of its story, gameplay is there only to create tension for the story. Indeed, dying in ME1 seemed arbitrary, but after you survived the first core mission, you were pretty much untouchable and grew only stronger after that.

And I still prefer run&gun style of ME1 than "push your face against a wall" style of ME2. Inventory was tedious, but beside that, gameplay did not stand in the way of the story.

Modifié par celuloid, 17 juillet 2011 - 08:14 .

[Iakus]

celuloid wrote...


ME1 core story is better for these reasons:
1. Presence of two villains who get real screen estate and provide audience with challenge, discuss their plans with the player and try to justify their actions. In the end, they are seen more as tragic figures than a one-dimensional faceless evil who repeats the same phrases ad-hoc during shootouts.
2. Rich story that, in first third introduces players to the setting of the game by doing quests on huge Citadel hub world, in second third sets players on a detective mission to uncover mystery behind the supposed villain and his motivation, and in final third rushes players to stop the real villain.
3. Actual vehicle sections are incorporated into main plot, thus making everything seem bigger and supporting epic feel of the storyline. Perfection lies in the details.
4. Supporting characters play actual role in the storyline, thus making it more character-centric than the famed sequel which is supposedly focused on characters. Okay, Mordin magically develops anti-Collector measure, but Liara is daughter of major villain, Wrex unlike any ME2 staffer aggresivelly confronts player over plot point and Tali gives player evidence to make the whole journey possible.
5. ME1 does not auto-start any core mission.
6. ME1 core story features around 10x times more roleplaying, of 10x better quality, as I have demonstrated in previous post.
7. ME1 main character is a man with the right training who found himself at the right spot to learn about the danger and steer the fate of the galaxy. ME2 main character is The Chosen One with 12 Sidekicks, cured from death, with big guns and big bugs to fry.

This.

Every.

Single.

Word.