283 réponses à ce sujet

[wolf99000]

Luigitornado wrote...

jlb524 wrote...
How so?

I'm not answering this. I was already straight forward enough.

jlb524 wrote...
uh huh. How is that different from when I play two different FemSheps and have the same hetero options available (as in ME2)? Do I get the 'same experience' if I would romance Jacob in one pt and then romance Thane in another?

Doesn't matter, you are still restricting the options to gender, which make the overall narrative when playing as female Shepard different than playing as male Shepard.

jlb524 wrote...
What? That's taking away RP options. I want to add more. That analogy isn't very good.

That is more. By taking away renegade and paragon unlockable options you would not be restricting players to any one path. Maybe I choose my Shepard to play as a paragon in ME1, but I want to renegade convince Saren to shoot himself at the end of the game because I feel like it would be a better choice for that situation. Unfortunately the renegade/paragon option is just another "bad" set of restrictions on the player: it keeps people from playing how they want to.

Since large story changing options are not restricted, why not get rid of unlockable paragon and renegade dialog options totally? I'm applying your exact same logic to this as you are with romance options, and yet you seem to be putt off by it.

Again restrictions are what make the story and multiple play troughs exciting.

A game with no restrictions would be better then you really do control your game in the rpg and have ever playtrough new and different 

Modifié par wolf99000, 17 juillet 2011 - 04:02 .

[bleetman]

Y'know, I'd love it if they did away with Paragon/Renegade bars, myself. As a quick representation of a character's particular stance on a moral compass, it's fine. As a means of unlocking 'press this button to automatically win the conversation' wheel options, it's absurd.

Which is basically all it does. Now, if it tied until how your companion characters reacted to you, perhaps going so far as to restrict certain romance interests who object to pushing mercenaries out of the window/rescuing kittens up tree for truth, justice and the non-kittens-up-trees way, that would be worth something.

/mostly off topic tangent

[Luigitornado]

Actually a game with no restrictions would be rather boring, saying otherwise to prove your point about how everyone should be bisexual is a rather tired argument.

[Luigitornado]

bleetman wrote...

Y'know, I'd love it if they did away with Paragon/Renegade bars, myself. As a quick representation of a character's particular stance on a moral compass, it's fine. As a means of unlocking 'press this button to automatically win the conversation' wheel options, it's absurd.

Which is basically all it does. Now, if it tied until how your companion characters reacted to you, perhaps going so far as to restrict certain romance interests who object to pushing mercenaries out of the window/rescuing kittens up tree for truth, justice and the non-kittens-up-trees way, that would be worth something.

/mostly off topic tangent

Oh no! We can't have rescritcions. That would make the game soooo boring. I want to be an evil basterd and still romance the angel of a character because that makes that narrative soo much more interesting and enticing.

I would totally support morality in relationships when it comes to ME, throw gender specific romanceable options in the mix and the my amount of play throughs would increase ten-fold because I would actually feel like my Shepard choice actually matters.

[wolf99000]

Luigitornado wrote...

Actually a game with no restrictions would be rather boring, saying otherwise to prove your point about how everyone should be bisexual is a rather tired argument.

wow I never said and I have not read on here anyone say everyone should be bisexual you really need to understand there are going to be same sex romances in mass effect 3 this is not us saying that its bioware

[Luigitornado]

wolf99000 wrote...
A game with no restrictions would be better then you really do control your game in the rpg and have ever playtrough new and different

At face value they might feel different, but would ultimately make every play through feel shallow once you realize that your choices have less of an impact on the narrative than you once realized.

[AngelicMachinery]

Luigitornado wrote...

wolf99000 wrote...
A game with no restrictions would be better then you really do control your game in the rpg and have ever playtrough new and different

At face value they might feel different, but would ultimately make every play through feel shallow once you realize that your choices have less of an impact on the narrative than you once realized.

I don't get this logic,  and it's too early to drink to find clarity.

[bleetman]

I'd settle for some restrictions that weren't arbitrary and badly implemented, myself.

Here's what I have to wonder: I can spend the entirety of the game ignoring Miranda. I can berate her. I can bicker with her that Cerberus are wrong, wrong, wrong. I can ignore Tali and hand Veetor over to Cerberus. I can get her exonerated by handing over the evidence that she begs me not to. So on and so forth.

Both these women will still fall for my Shepard if I chose to play as male. But if they were to express an interest in a female Shepard under any circumstances, only now does this become consistency breaking.

I mean, really?

Modifié par bleetman, 17 juillet 2011 - 04:20 .

[wolf99000]

Luigitornado wrote...

wolf99000 wrote...
A game with no restrictions would be better then you really do control your game in the rpg and have ever playtrough new and different

At face value they might feel different, but would ultimately make every play through feel shallow once you realize that your choices have less of an impact on the narrative than you once realized.

but deep down that is the ulitmate rpg one that gives you full control over everything but restrictions are not the problem here bioware have said there will be same sex romances in mass effect 3 

I read a article ages ago that they might have been in mass effect 2 if it was not for the whole fox news lies about mass effect 1 

[Luigitornado]

wolf99000 wrote...

Luigitornado wrote...

Actually a game with no restrictions would be rather boring, saying otherwise to prove your point about how everyone should be bisexual is a rather tired argument.

wow I never said and I have not read on here anyone say everyone should be bisexual you really need to understand there are going to be same sex romances in mass effect 3 this is not us saying that its bioware

YOU really need to understand that I don't give a flying koopa if there are s/s romances in ME3. I don't mind there being bisexual character. I'm in more responding to the community of wanting their "fave" character to be bisexual, rather than this particular thread, which was just arguing for Miranda. 

I would argue my point in the s/s thread, but they don't seem to like anything that is against making a character bisexual (in my case making every character bisexual) and just label the argumentor as homophobic rather giving any thought to what they are saying.

It's easier to take the side of wanting something rather than being against when it comes to "freedom" so whatever.

[bleetman]

Luigitornado wrote...

giving any thought to what they are saying.

I will when they will.

[wolf99000]

Luigitornado wrote...

wolf99000 wrote...

Luigitornado wrote...

Actually a game with no restrictions would be rather boring, saying otherwise to prove your point about how everyone should be bisexual is a rather tired argument.

wow I never said and I have not read on here anyone say everyone should be bisexual you really need to understand there are going to be same sex romances in mass effect 3 this is not us saying that its bioware

YOU really need to understand that I don't give a flying koopa if there are s/s romances in ME3. I don't mind there being bisexual character. I'm in more responding to the community of wanting their "fave" character to be bisexual, rather than this particular thread, which was just arguing for Miranda. 

I would argue my point in the s/s thread, but they don't seem to like anything that is against making a character bisexual (in my case making every character bisexual) and just label the argumentor as homophobic rather giving any thought to what they are saying.

It's easier to take the side of wanting something rather than being against when it comes to "freedom" so whatever.

just because you are against something does not make you homophobic I have not been in the other thread as my argument has always been Miranda and Ashley are the only ones I would understand being bi for me the hard thing is on the male side I am not sure any me1 or me2 squadmate really fit being bi so I wonder if that is why vega is being introduced into the game

[Luigitornado]

bleetman wrote...

Luigitornado wrote...

giving any thought to what they are saying.

I will when they will.

You mean that players should be give the choice to whomever they want to have a romance with because that is the ideal way to play a role playing game?

Understood, but if the trade-off is a loose narrative and boring interactions, like rejection from a romance, then I want nothing to do with it. Let's get real: Bioware won't restrict players based on morality when it comes to romances, or if they did, they'd give the option for players to say they're sorry and to make everything right. I'd be more for it if interactions changed, but they simply won't. 



Maybe I wanted to romance Samara. Toooo bad. And I'm happy that I couldn't. (want want want <_<)

Honestly I hope in Bioware's next game they take away all romance options and make the protangist a 10-year-old blob.

Modifié par Luigitornado, 17 juillet 2011 - 04:37 .

[gamer_girl]

wolf99000 wrote...

LilyasAvalon wrote...

There were apparently plans for Miranda to be romancable by either gender, but the idea was scrapped early. However, I don't think it's possible.

The Shadow Brokers files on Miranda suggest Miranda is desperate to have a baby (For whatever reason) and even though they also confirm she is... barren, I don't think it'll open her up to lesbian action.

talking as a girl who is into girls trust me there is nothing stoping anyone who is bi or lesbian or even gay today having a baby infact it might work out better for miranda she cannot have kids but shepard can 

plus having no bi lesbian or gay charcters in the game is unrealistic also not sure but was ashley not meant to be a li for both male and fem sheps I know there is a video on youtube of a fem shep ashley love scence form me1

Having ALL bi/lesbian/gay characters is also unrealistic. While I do agree that it's a good idea to have everyone bi just so people stop whining, if you're trying to argue using realism, that is very very misplaced. In reality, bi/gay people make up a very small percentage of the population and the likelihood of all squad members being such is ridiculously small. Also many things about Mass Effect are unrealistic. If realism was your concern you wouldn't be playing them in the first place.

Modifié par gamer_girl, 17 juillet 2011 - 04:43 .

[wolf99000]

gamer_girl wrote...

wolf99000 wrote...

LilyasAvalon wrote...

There were apparently plans for Miranda to be romancable by either gender, but the idea was scrapped early. However, I don't think it's possible.

The Shadow Brokers files on Miranda suggest Miranda is desperate to have a baby (For whatever reason) and even though they also confirm she is... barren, I don't think it'll open her up to lesbian action.

talking as a girl who is into girls trust me there is nothing stoping anyone who is bi or lesbian or even gay today having a baby infact it might work out better for miranda she cannot have kids but shepard can 

plus having no bi lesbian or gay charcters in the game is unrealistic also not sure but was ashley not meant to be a li for both male and fem sheps I know there is a video on youtube of a fem shep ashley love scence form me1

Having ALL bi/lesbian/gay characters is also unrealistic. While I do agree that it's a good idea to have everyone bi just so people stop whining, if you're trying to argue using realism, that is very very misplaced. In reality, bi/gay people make up a very small percentage of the population and the likelihood of all squad members being such is ridiculously small. Also many things about Mass Effect are unrealistic. If realism was your concern you wouldn't be playing them in the first place.

not sure where peope are getting I want everyone in the game as bi I dont for me again Miranda and Ashley make sense as being bi if everyone was bi that would be just silly as I have always said

[gamer_girl]

wolf99000 wrote...

gamer_girl wrote...

wolf99000 wrote...

LilyasAvalon wrote...

There were apparently plans for Miranda to be romancable by either gender, but the idea was scrapped early. However, I don't think it's possible.

The Shadow Brokers files on Miranda suggest Miranda is desperate to have a baby (For whatever reason) and even though they also confirm she is... barren, I don't think it'll open her up to lesbian action.

talking as a girl who is into girls trust me there is nothing stoping anyone who is bi or lesbian or even gay today having a baby infact it might work out better for miranda she cannot have kids but shepard can 

plus having no bi lesbian or gay charcters in the game is unrealistic also not sure but was ashley not meant to be a li for both male and fem sheps I know there is a video on youtube of a fem shep ashley love scence form me1

Having ALL bi/lesbian/gay characters is also unrealistic. While I do agree that it's a good idea to have everyone bi just so people stop whining, if you're trying to argue using realism, that is very very misplaced. In reality, bi/gay people make up a very small percentage of the population and the likelihood of all squad members being such is ridiculously small. Also many things about Mass Effect are unrealistic. If realism was your concern you wouldn't be playing them in the first place.

not sure where peope are getting I want everyone in the game as bi I dont for me again Miranda and Ashley make sense as being bi if everyone was bi that would be just silly as I have always said

Problem is is that it's an unwinnable situation for everyone. You may think that those two are best suited, while other people would think a different two are. If BioWare listens to the wishes you have, how is it fair that they don't listen to everyone elses? If they switch one over, chances are they'll switch everyone over. And in my mind that would kind of ruin part of the game, because without those kind of restrictions it makes it A- less likely people will make second, third, fourth, etc. playthroughs B- way too empowering for the player. If literally everyone came up and asked you if you wanted to be with them can you see how annoying that would be? I mean already one sex comes up to you and tries, but EVERY single one? That's a bit borderline. It really throws the player back, and makes them realize that they are playing a game. Really makes it lose its immersiveness. It wasn't a huge deal with DA2 because there were only 4 romanceable characters, but there are many in Mass Effect.

Modifié par gamer_girl, 17 juillet 2011 - 05:00 .

[wolf99000]

gamer_girl wrote...

wolf99000 wrote...

gamer_girl wrote...

wolf99000 wrote...

LilyasAvalon wrote...

There were apparently plans for Miranda to be romancable by either gender, but the idea was scrapped early. However, I don't think it's possible.

The Shadow Brokers files on Miranda suggest Miranda is desperate to have a baby (For whatever reason) and even though they also confirm she is... barren, I don't think it'll open her up to lesbian action.

talking as a girl who is into girls trust me there is nothing stoping anyone who is bi or lesbian or even gay today having a baby infact it might work out better for miranda she cannot have kids but shepard can 

plus having no bi lesbian or gay charcters in the game is unrealistic also not sure but was ashley not meant to be a li for both male and fem sheps I know there is a video on youtube of a fem shep ashley love scence form me1

Having ALL bi/lesbian/gay characters is also unrealistic. While I do agree that it's a good idea to have everyone bi just so people stop whining, if you're trying to argue using realism, that is very very misplaced. In reality, bi/gay people make up a very small percentage of the population and the likelihood of all squad members being such is ridiculously small. Also many things about Mass Effect are unrealistic. If realism was your concern you wouldn't be playing them in the first place.

not sure where peope are getting I want everyone in the game as bi I dont for me again Miranda and Ashley make sense as being bi if everyone was bi that would be just silly as I have always said

Problem is is that it's an unwinnable situation for everyone. You may think that those two are best suited, while other people would think a different two are. If BioWare listens to the wishes you have, how is it fair that they don't listen to everyone elses? If they switch one over, chances are they'll switch everyone over.

I am not asking bioware to follow me and if they did I would want a paycheck lol fact is bioware will do it the way they want I am just giving my opinon on what I think could work 

[The Tookah]

Has thereever been a lesbian character in a game whou would turn down a male PC? I think the problem with some gamers is they have never been turned down by the game LI of their choice. They cannot understand the frustration.

[LiaraShepard]

where's the problem with everyone being bi? each girl in the game has big boobs, they wear sexy clothes, have the power to beat the strongest men. so, realism isn't a good argument in my opinion, because the game characters aren't realistic, even if all of them are straight as hell. in addition to that, you can persuade and manipulate them very often. you can develop them the way you want. why is sexuality such a big deal? straight people always get a variety of potential LI's, they can choose between nearly everyone. and a character being bi doenst take the choice away from you. you can still date them. not all of them will make thousands of statements that they are bisexual. you can date your woman without being jealous that she loves girls too. because bisexuality doesn't mean to have a high sex drive and to flirt with everyone. or are you afraid that the boys hit on you?
I never liked jack. i'd be sooooo glad to see miranda and ashley being bi. it was so sad to have leliana the bi-option in DA:origins and not morrigan. I think it's fair to give everyone the same chance, and it doesn't take anything away from you. it just gives the player the choice to create his own role playing game plot. I don't think a character will loose his character because of this. otherwise, samara would have also lost it, because she doesn't seemed to be the girl that wears sexy clothes, but she does. because it's fanbased, to please the male gamers. and I'm not offended by this, because her character is the same. and it'll be the same with bisexuality. it doesn't ruin their personality if they don't get a high promiscuity, suddenly.

Modifié par LiaraShepard, 17 juillet 2011 - 05:21 .

[JamieCOTC]

broShep and femShep do not coexist in the same universe. If Miranda is straight in broShep's universe in ME2 she will remain straight in ME3. If, by some quirk of fate, BW decides femShep can romance Miranda in ME3, then the character change only happens in femShep's universe. So, if any playthrough would be "tarnished" it would be a femShep playthrough, and I can't believe that the majority of people complaining about this even bother to play a femShep.

That said, I like Miranda the way she is. She's a great foil character for my canon paragon femShep (who is a lesbian). But if they include her in a femShep romance, I won't cry about it.

Modifié par JamieCOTC, 17 juillet 2011 - 05:15 .

[Blooddrunk1004]

wolf99000 wrote...

not sure where peope are getting I want everyone in the game as bi I dont for me again Miranda and Ashley make sense as being bi if everyone was bi that would be just silly as I have always said

I don't even want to know where do you get the idea for Miranda to be bisexual.
The only old charachter that makes sense to have s/s romance is Jack and just because Ashley believes in god that doesn't mean that she should be opened to both gender. And please stop bringing realism into this.
If you use realism as en excuse i can now also say that Mass Effect needs more racist and homophobic people.

Modifié par Blooddrunk1004, 17 juillet 2011 - 05:19 .

[Wulfram]

The Tookah wrote...

Has thereever been a lesbian character in a game whou would turn down a male PC?

Juhani in KotOR1 after the patch, I think.

[JamieCOTC]

Well, if Miranda isn't bi in ME3 it won't matter.  What can be done can be undone . 

[Lenimph]

I've been lurking this thread for a while and this is all I have to say and I'm sure it already has been said.

Women do not necessarily realize they're bi and even if they do, it does not mean will they come to terms with it and act on it. Especially if they have reasons not to or never meet the right person. Liking both genders is a confusing thing at times and some times it's just easier to follow the social norm...

Miranda has a stigma to be "perfect" and it would not be unlikely that if she found an other woman attractive she wouldn't act on it because it falls outside of she's expected to be. It is not impossible that during the end of Mass Effect 2, when Miranda seems to start making her own decisions, that she thinks Femshep is worth breaking the mold.

I don't see what the big fret over it is, because I doubt Miranda suddenly deciding she can act on her feelings towards Femshep will effect Sheploo and the action his peen is getting anytime soon. Because after all she wouldn't need to tell him because Femshep doesn't even exist. I guess some people like to think they're special just because they belong to the gender that can romance a fictional character.

As far as I'm concerned there is reasonable doubt on Miranda's sexuality until Femshep can actually make a move on her and either be denied or have her feelings reciprocated.

[LiaraShepard]

yes, there's a difference between men and women when it comes to bisexuality. a study has showed that the majority of men are straight or gay, even if they consider themselves as bi. they may act bisexually, but are actually attracted to only one gender. there are only few men who are really attracted sexually to both genders. women however are often attracted to both genders, even if they consider themselves as hetero, because women are in general less target orientated than men when it comes to sexuality. of course, bisexuality is more than our natural sexual attraction. and I dont want to say all men are the one or the other direction. but I think there's a difference in the quantity. however, I really bet if the society worked in another way many more girls would be bisexual. I heard from women who suddenly falled in love with a girl in their late 20s. it's not that uncommon and it would be even more the normal way if it'd be considered as normal as heterosexuality. but although the society has changed there's still a big difference and it makes people feel more comfortable to know they are straight, even if they have the potential to be bisexual.

Modifié par LiaraShepard, 17 juillet 2011 - 06:45 .