283 réponses à ce sujet

[wolf99000]

LilyasAvalon wrote...

There were apparently plans for Miranda to be romancable by either gender, but the idea was scrapped early. However, I don't think it's possible.

The Shadow Brokers files on Miranda suggest Miranda is desperate to have a baby (For whatever reason) and even though they also confirm she is... barren, I don't think it'll open her up to lesbian action.

talking as a girl who is into girls trust me there is nothing stoping anyone who is bi or lesbian or even gay today having a baby infact it might work out better for miranda she cannot have kids but shepard can 

plus having no bi lesbian or gay charcters in the game is unrealistic also not sure but was ashley not meant to be a li for both male and fem sheps I know there is a video on youtube of a fem shep ashley love scence form me1

Modifié par wolf99000, 17 juillet 2011 - 12:17 .

[LiquidGrape]

Sylvianus wrote...

No, the generalization of Mr Gaider is completely false. There are lots of cases where it is legitimate to restrict.

When you ask for the continuity of characters that must be respected, that we do not change their personality to the fanservice.

No. The ' ah yes, she may be bi, because she hasn't screamed, "I'm straight," I do not believe at all.

The reasons are simple,it's the last episode. We do not need to see our favorite characters fall into the trap of fanservice. You 're not obliged to agree, but respect that.

Do not talk about choice, when it is to get the same mess with DA2. The definition of a character doesn't change because some fans require it. No that's not a reasonable choice.

Anders, whatever what you say has been ruined for many people, and you believe it or not, it's a fact. So mr Gaider should stop its inefficient generalizations and think more seriously about the problems encountered in a game. such as unexplained resurrections.

: I do not care Miranda, but I understand the concern o fher fans.  It's been years that they follow her. And see it converted for reasons out of the game is not what I would argue.

You realise making Miranda available for FemShep wouldn't at all necessitate that she "change"?
Simply allow FemShep to approach her, and go the same route as the male romance from there.
Problem solved.

As much as you may deny it, the simple fact is that we do not know what sexual orientation Miranda might have. Arguing that her only being available for MaleShep in ME2 is proof enough is a shallow meta construction, and therefore wholly detached from the characterisation.

Also, on the subject of Anders; I think most people who consider him "ruined" do so because the circumstances in DA2 has rendered him a much more bitter character. If anyone seriously believe he is a lesser character because an additional facet of him was revealed, then I must say that seems awfully presumptuous.

Modifié par LiquidGrape, 17 juillet 2011 - 12:28 .

[jlb524]

wolf99000 wrote...
talking as a girl who is into girls trust me there is nothing stoping anyone who is bi or lesbian or even gay today having a baby infact it might work out better for miranda she cannot have kids but shepard can 

Yeah...some think gays don't have kids of their own or something...as if our womb stops working as soon as we come out of the closet. 

LiquidGrape wrote...

Also, on the subject of Anders; I think most people who consider him "ruined" do so because the circumstances in DA2 has rendered him a much more bitter character. If anyone seriously believe he is a lesser character because an additional facet of him was revealed, then I must say that seems awfully presumptuous.

Anders was easily one of the best characters in DA2...regardless of sexuality.  I don't even care about his sexuality, tbh, as I don't romance him.

Modifié par jlb524, 17 juillet 2011 - 12:32 .

[CrookedAsylum]

jlb524 wrote...

wolf99000 wrote...
talking as a girl who is into girls trust me there is nothing stoping anyone who is bi or lesbian or even gay today having a baby infact it might work out better for miranda she cannot have kids but shepard can 

Yeah...some think gays don't have kids of their own or something...as if our womb stops working as soon as we come out of the closet. 

I wish my uterus would stop wroking...

[LiquidGrape]

jlb524 wrote...

Anders was easily one of the best characters in DA2...regardless of sexuality.  I don't even care about his sexuality, tbh, as I don't romance him.

I really liked what they did with him as well. I thought it was an improvement, really, not to mention an interesting development. Anders in Awakening hinted at what may come, while being something of a throwaway jokester otherwise. While I don't love the character, I love what he added to DA2.

His sexuality really is a secondary "concern" if you will. If you walk away from that game with that particular aspect as the most lasting impression of his character, I say you need to reconsider your priorities.

Modifié par LiquidGrape, 17 juillet 2011 - 12:43 .

[Sarcastic Tasha]

Some people's problem with the possibility of Miranda being a s/s option is that we don't know of any women she's had relationships with in the past.

So what about Leliana? As far as I can see Leliana was written as a lesbian and making her an option for a male warden seems like an afterthought. Her most significant relationship (other than the warden) and the only one she mentions specifically was with a woman. She also mentions bored noblewomen to Isabela. Her only mention of men is that she would manipulate them during her time as a bard. So to me, in my playthroughs as a female warden, Leliana is a lesbian. It doesn't matter if other people romance her as a male warden, it doesn't affect me. In fact I'm happy they can enjoy the romance, doesn't make Leliana in my game bisexual though because the male warden doesn't exist in my playthrough.

[jlb524]

Sarcastic Tasha wrote...

Some people's problem with the possibility of Miranda being a s/s option is that we don't know of any women she's had relationships with in the past.

So what about Leliana? As far as I can see Leliana was written as a lesbian and making her an option for a male warden seems like an afterthought. Her most significant relationship (other than the warden) and the only one she mentions specifically was with a woman. She also mentions bored noblewomen to Isabela. Her only mention of men is that she would manipulate them during her time as a bard. So to me, in my playthroughs as a female warden, Leliana is a lesbian. It doesn't matter if other people romance her as a male warden, it doesn't affect me. In fact I'm happy they can enjoy the romance, doesn't make Leliana in my game bisexual though because the male warden doesn't exist in my playthrough.

I agree and I bring all this up when people say that Leliana was the 'perfect' bisexual romance.  Not really if you play as a FemWarden...there's no indication that she's romantically or sexually attracted to males.  Sure there's the possibility that she slept with men as part of her job.   But her intent is what is important here...she's the type that would rather engage in an unpleasant sexual interaction if it saves her from having to kill someone.  She could be like Jennifer Tilly's character in Bound , who seemed very much the lesbian even though she had sex with men out of necessity.

I also RP Leliana as being a lesbian in my own head-canon.  Though, as you said, I don't care if she's available to MaleWardens as well...she's an awesome romance and she should be (and their other option is Morrigan...I don't like that romance much, so I'm glad they get a better option, IMO).

Modifié par jlb524, 17 juillet 2011 - 12:56 .

[jlb524]

Some people get Miranda killed...it ruins my continuity as she's alive in my game...

[scampermax]

jlb524 wrote...

Some people get Miranda killed...it ruins my continuity as she's alive in my game...

Rachel sees dead people

[jlb524]

scampermax wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

Some people get Miranda killed...it ruins my continuity as she's alive in my game...

Rachel sees dead people

As long as she doesn't see bisexual people she remains sane, for real. 

[The Tookah]

I think it is perfectly logical for Miranda to be lesbian. And no, I don't think that she would be into women just because her father's DNA was used to clone her. Miranda is insecure about her designed perfection. She knows men are distracted by her sexuality. She uses it. I think she would be more likely to trust a woman's affections, perhaps to her disadvantage. (I am as easily distracted by feminine perfection as the next lesbian.) XD That said, I also think it could path both ways, romance or friendship. It would be interesting if BW could make it more difficult for different genders to gain acceptance from various characters; more realistic.

It always rubs me the wrong way when people talk about the characters being bi. If BW programmed a character to be attracted to either gender PC, they are not bi. They are whatever the the player prefers, straight or gay. They don't say, "ok, I can swing that way for now." Please don't anyone take offense. I am a literalist My Shepards are all lesbians, their LIs are all lesbians, not bi. And as others mention, it boggles the mind that others' think their game experience is "ruined" because of my choices in my games.

[wolf99000]

you also have to take in to account the effect Shepard has had on Miranda as Liara says Miranda has changed a ton by being around Shepard that for me is a a good start to explaining why fem shep Miranda could work

plus if they just go with the cop out of just having jack as the only option for same sex romance the way most of my fem sheps have been played romanceing jack would not fit them 

Modifié par wolf99000, 17 juillet 2011 - 02:05 .

[Sylvianus]

Nyoka wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...

When you ask for the continuity of characters that must be respected, that we do not change their personality to the fanservice.

I have modded the game to romance Miranda with Femshep. Have you noticed how Miranda's personality has suddenly changed in your game because of that? How weird it must have been for you, seeing those sudden changes in her personality for no reason. Well, now you know why she has a different personality in your game: because I romanced her with femshep in my game.

The reasons are simple,it's the last episode. We do not need to see our favorite characters fall into the trap of fanservice.

Exactly, and you won't, because that thing will happen in other people's houses. Exactly the same way you didn't notice anything when I romanced her. So that terrible, terrible thing that is seeing your favorite character being open to the possibility of having a same sex relationship will be limited to those who want to role play that relationship with their Shepard.

*...skipping bit about other games that don't matter...*

I do not care Miranda, but I understand the concern o fher fans.  It's been years that they follow her. And see it converted for reasons out of the game is not what I would argue.

Right, what a terrible thing to do, offering the same role playing possibilities to all players. People who played paragon in ME1 shouldn't be allowed to make renegade decisions in ME2, because that conversion would totally ruin and retcon Shepard's character and I care too much about their Shepards to allow that. No, actually, I'd rather they had the same possibilities I have.

You have your priorities ( totally your right and I can understand ), I have mine. We can desagree about it.  You are ready to see the characters changed to the detriment of what has been done. To the detriment of their sexuality, their personality, for reasons out of the game. I do not want. My priority, my will is always to respect the integrity of what they are in the story.

To divert character from what/who they are for more assumed opportunities, I never would support it. Whatever the reason.

Sexuality is a part of a person. You do not decide because you want to, it's not like renegade/ paragon path. If the person is gay, he is gay. Do not ask to change his sexuality ( bi, accessible to the other sex ) in the next episode,  because he's/ she's hot, what some do with their thread. 

If a woman or a man was strictly gay, and that fans have requested that it becomes bi in another episode. I would reacted in exactly the same way, as I already said. If I fall in love with this character, I create a character of the same sex, and I resign myself to think that I could never wit other gender. I've always romanticized Leliana with a woman, never with a man. ( even if she 's bi ) I think it's a good thing.

It's not really the matter of s/s. The integrity of the characters. That's what motivates me.

Now, I believe that there will be an eternal misunderstanding between us. You do not want to understand why it would ruin the idea that somes fans based on the game had made about her and why it matters. Above all in the last episode. 

Now, If Miranda become bi, I Will not cry, it doesn't bother me. But I can understand the feeling.

I'm ready to see some old character  to be Bi, because there is ambiguity or a revelation that was made in the game like Jack or Tali. The reaction of Kaidan in M2 was also troubling. So, yes. Besides, He has a relationship with a doctor in M2, he didn't specify gender.

I'm ready to see Joker bi ( not a romance and we don't know anything about his preferences ) , and of course the new LI. I totally support Vega as only gay even if it is unlikely.

These are my preferences. It keeps me from seeing contradictions from an episode to another, what I don't like as well.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 17 juillet 2011 - 02:27 .

[Luigitornado]

Why are people arguing the logic of it? Logically not every character would be bisexual. There; now we are done arguing this.

Am I the only one who values the difference between playing as Male Shepard and Female Shepard? Right now the only major differing factor is cosmetic, a few differing dialog options, and ROMANCES! It helps the narrative.

What I like about ME is that invites players to play through the game again, which is helped by adding limitations for certain play throughs, i.e. ROMANCES.

[Rinji the Bearded]

Luigitornado wrote...

Why are people arguing the logic of it? Logically not every character would be bisexual. There; now we are done arguing this.

Am I the only one who values the difference between playing as Male Shepard and Female Shepard? Right now the only major differing factor is cosmetic, a few differing dialog options, and ROMANCES! It helps the narrative.

What I like about ME is that invites players to play through the game again, which is helped by adding limitations for certain play throughs, i.e. ROMANCES.

David Gaider said...

"Privilege always lies with the majority. They're so used to being
catered to that they see the lack of catering as an imbalance . . . And
the person who says that the only way to please them is to restrict
options for others is, if you ask me, the one who deserves it least."

Looks like some of  the Bioware folks may not feel the same way as you do, dude.

Also I'm not sure if there's as much difference between Manshep and Femshep as much as you think there is.

Modifié par RinjiRenee, 17 juillet 2011 - 02:58 .

[AngelicMachinery]

Luigitornado wrote...

Why are people arguing the logic of it? Logically not every character would be bisexual. There; now we are done arguing this.

Am I the only one who values the difference between playing as Male Shepard and Female Shepard? Right now the only major differing factor is cosmetic, a few differing dialog options, and ROMANCES! It helps the narrative.

What I like about ME is that invites players to play through the game again, which is helped by adding limitations for certain play throughs, i.e. ROMANCES.

I don't see the point in playing through the game as a male for the most part,  I'm just not a huge fan.  

You are saying of course, that the only differences between the genders is the romances which I have no huge problem with.  Yet,  you are suggesting that making characters bissexual will ruin replayability.  How exactly hae you come to this conclusion? 

[jlb524]

Luigitornado wrote...

Why are people arguing the logic of it? Logically not every character would be bisexual. There; now we are done arguing this.

Logic?  bahahaahahah, no one is arguing about logic.  ME romances are illogical to begin with.

Luigitornado wrote...
Am I the only one who values the difference between playing as Male Shepard and Female Shepard? Right now
the only major differing factor is cosmetic, a few differing dialog options, and ROMANCES! It helps the narrative.

That's even funnier.

Modifié par jlb524, 17 juillet 2011 - 03:06 .

[Luigitornado]

RinjiRenee wrote...

Luigitornado wrote...

Why are people arguing the logic of it? Logically not every character would be bisexual. There; now we are done arguing this.

Am I the only one who values the difference between playing as Male Shepard and Female Shepard? Right now the only major differing factor is cosmetic, a few differing dialog options, and ROMANCES! It helps the narrative.

What I like about ME is that invites players to play through the game again, which is helped by adding limitations for certain play throughs, i.e. ROMANCES.

David Gaider said...

"Privilege always lies with the majority. They're so used to being
catered to that they see the lack of catering as an imbalance . . . And
the person who says that the only way to please them is to restrict
options for others is, if you ask me, the one who deserves it least."

Looks like some of  the Bioware folks may not feel the same way as you do, dude.

It's not restricting for the sake of catering to the majroity. It is resctricting to entice more play throughs. I'm completley fine with having a few bisexual characters, but it is competley ridiculous to make everyone bisexual.

What it would come down to is what the player's sexual preference would be: be it a lesbian, gay dude, or a straight guy who wants to play as a girl to romance another girl. Bioware would not change how the romance sub-story plays out based on gender and sexual prefrence, which would make playing as a certain gender over the other feel like a less important choice.

Other than using your imagination to fill whatever cocky-many backstory you have for your Shepard, the character and story would generally feel the same and just be a costmetic change. I value story and narrative, so having something like Jack turn you down for a f/f relationship is the stuff I'm looking for because it it is restrictive and it makes for a more interesting role playing expierence.

So I respectfully disagree with Mr. Gaider.

Modifié par Luigitornado, 17 juillet 2011 - 03:09 .

[jlb524]

Luigitornado wrote...

It's not restricting for the sake of catering to the majroity. It is resctricting to entice more play throughs. I'm completley fine with having a few bisexual characters, but it is competley ridiculous to make everyone bisexual.

I will tell you something now...I will only find myself compelled to do more playthroughs if I have more s/s options.  I will not feel compelled to replay the game to romance my fave female LI with a dude...I will pass...the only way I will replay is if said female LI is available for FemShep...now what?

[Sylvianus]

Nyoka wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...

You are ready to see the characters changed to the detriment of what has been done. To the detriment of their sexuality, their personality, for reasons out of the game.

Please describe the changes Miranda has experienced in your game since I romanced her.

Sexuality is a part of a person. You do not decide because you want to, it's not like renegade/ paragon path.

Please describe the changes Miranda has experienced in your game since I romanced her.

If you don't think paragon/renegade is not part of Shepard's personality, you must have a very hollow understanding of role playing. Do you just pick random dialogue options?

If the person is gay, he is gay. Do not ask to change his sexuality ( bi, accessible to the other sex ) in the next episode,  because he's/ she's hot, what some do with their thread.

Right, that's why the Garrus romance is so terrible, because they ruined him by making him a LI for a human when he's a turian and never showed interest in humans in ME1. I'm just kidding, actually the Garrusmance is very fun to play and very well done. Garrus is not ruined in ME2.

If a woman or a man was strictly gay, and that fans have requested that it becomes bi in another episode. I would reacted in exactly the same way

Same here. It's absurd to restrict a love interest to a certain group of people. Why not offer the same role playing possibilities to all players?

It's not really the matter of s/s. The integrity of the characters. That's what motivates me.

Now gayness disintegrates characters. This is just great.

Thanks for stating your preferences though.

I do not describe anything fo you.

it is useless to speak with you. You give me an uninteresting answer, an answer that is meant ironically, but has no bottom. Useless.

So no, I do not care what you think.

[Luigitornado]

jlb524 wrote...

Luigitornado wrote...

It's not restricting for the sake of catering to the majroity. It is resctricting to entice more play throughs. I'm completley fine with having a few bisexual characters, but it is competley ridiculous to make everyone bisexual.

I will tell you something now...I will only find myself compelled to do more playthroughs if I have more s/s options.  I will not feel compelled to replay the game to romance my fave female LI with a dude...I will pass...the only way I will replay is if said female LI is available for FemShep...now what?

Balance story with romancable options. This isn't a dating simulator. 

[jlb524]

Luigitornado wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

Luigitornado wrote...

It's not restricting for the sake of catering to the majroity. It is resctricting to entice more play throughs. I'm completley fine with having a few bisexual characters, but it is competley ridiculous to make everyone bisexual.

I will tell you something now...I will only find myself compelled to do more playthroughs if I have more s/s options.  I will not feel compelled to replay the game to romance my fave female LI with a dude...I will pass...the only way I will replay is if said female LI is available for FemShep...now what?

Balance story with romancable options. This isn't a dating simulator. 

Have you ever played an actual dating simulator?

Also, the story isn't balanced with the romances...the romances have no effect on it.  It's not like...if you have too many bisexuals on the team the Reapers will win or something.

Modifié par jlb524, 17 juillet 2011 - 03:14 .

[wolf99000]

AngelicMachinery wrote...

Luigitornado wrote...

Why are people arguing the logic of it? Logically not every character would be bisexual. There; now we are done arguing this.

Am I the only one who values the difference between playing as Male Shepard and Female Shepard? Right now the only major differing factor is cosmetic, a few differing dialog options, and ROMANCES! It helps the narrative.

What I like about ME is that invites players to play through the game again, which is helped by adding limitations for certain play throughs, i.e. ROMANCES.

I don't see the point in playing through the game as a male for the most part,  I'm just not a huge fan.  

You are saying of course, that the only differences between the genders is the romances which I have no huge problem with.  Yet,  you are suggesting that making characters bissexual will ruin replayability.  How exactly hae you come to this conclusion? 

I agree with this if it was not for the ashley romance and then the miranda/tali romance in 2 I would not have any male sheps