303 réponses à ce sujet

[Arijharn]

The Twilight God wrote...
First, the narrative does not state what you claim it does. In no words does it ever explicitely state that there was an ambigious co-developement request without any direction or set goal that came first and then the Normandy concept was born out of that co-development after the fact.

Does it really 'need' too though? I mean, at what point does exposition just become mindless clutter of no real importance?

All I recall is some characters in the game (Anderson? Chief Engineer Adams? Codex?) saying that it was co-developed, and I thought that's all I really needed to know. I personally don't care if the Turians or Humans designed the cockpit, just that at least some things were developed together.

The Twilight God wrote...
Second, if it was completely co-developed, why does only the Alliance have stealth systems and tantalus drives?

I don't think I've ever said that it was 'completely co-developed' just that it was co-developed, and that I had no reason to doubt the statement. The reason why I couldn't think it was completely co-developed was for the reason you stated above (another aspect that could be is that the Turian's don't see the need for Stealth frigates because they are rather staid with their established modus operandi for waging war). You can have teams responsible for specific parts of the ship's design, For example; Boeing's production partners can be independently responsible for producing aspects of the JSF F-35 Lightning II, but otherwise be clueless about other aspects of it's construction.

While the Turian's may have co-developed the CIC style, there's nothing to suggest that they had to be in the know in regards to the more hush-hush aspects including the IES stealth systems and Tantalus drives.

The Twilight God wrote...
You don't have to agree with me. You can choose to believe whatever you want, but don't pretend like you know anything. You made some assumptions, came to a conclusion and have been treating that conclusion as fact for so long that you are incapable of thinking outside the box you've made for yourself.

I'm not sure if I'm reading your 'tone' right, but there's no point in being so aggressive in arguing your point. I just pointed out why I thought your position was erroneous when you get the point of openly doubting what is essentially a pretty inconsequential matter in the 'great scheme of things.'

I don't say that I know these things beyond a shadow of doubt, but the stress of emphasis on your statement seems to be approaching ironic quite rapidly, considering the obvious passion you have for this topic.

The Twilight God wrote...
Incorrect. You're making the assertion that they would have to have started constructing the physical ship and then included the turians. There is quite a bit of research, design and planning before construction. The Normandy's stealth system make it fundamentally different from other vessels. You can't just up and make a flying heat capacitor on a whelm.

Um no, I wasn't stating that at all. In fact, I was stating the complete opposite. Aka, during the design of the ship. Maybe you have me confused with another poster.

To clear up any confusion, I was replying to a post you made to another, and I replied to it because I disagreed with the point you were making, but I wasn't actually the person involved with your written jousting match originally.

Twilight God wrote...
Armalite designed the M-4. Cerberus did not design the Normandy. So your point is moot.

Considering the supposed political and industrial power that Cerberus represents, I actually think you're half right. It wouldn't be Cerberus, but it could have been Cord-Hislop Aerospace, which is a front corporation for Cerberus and obviously as it's name suggests must be involved with construction with starships. It would seem like Cerberus to invent a reason to get the Alliance to invest resources into a project that Cerberus would indirectly benefit from... or at least, I would do it if I was the Illusive Man.

[Bad King]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Guys like Something With Mass are bitter that their Sheploo can't mack as hard as TIM.

and If I have my way in ME3 my femshep will be TIM's latest catch. :happy:

Yeah, because I'm jelous of a fictional character...a fictional character that's so incompetent, everything he touches dies.

And let's not forget about the group he has little to no control over.

I think I can live without being as pathetic as him.

Hey look, more jealousy!

[The Twilight God]

Arijharn wrote...

Does it really 'need' too though? I mean, at what point does exposition just become mindless clutter of no real importance?

Are you saying that it either conforms to your assumptions or it is mindless clutter of no real importance?

Arijharn wrote...

All I recall is some characters in the game (Anderson? Chief Engineer Adams? Codex?) saying that it was co-developed, and I thought that's all I really needed to know. I personally don't care if the Turians or Humans designed the cockpit, just that at least some things were developed together.

If you're giving Cerberus credit for stopping Sovereign because they wanted to observe turian technologies and warship building practices it definitely matters. Knowledge of turian technologies and warship building practices did not assist the Normany is sneaking past the geth fleet over Ilos. 

Arijharn wrote...

Considering the supposed political and industrial power that Cerberus represents, I actually think you're half right. It wouldn't be Cerberus, but it could have been Cord-Hislop Aerospace, which is a front corporation for Cerberus and obviously as it's name suggests must be involved with construction with starships. It would seem like Cerberus to invent a reason to get the Alliance to invest resources into a project that Cerberus would indirectly benefit from... or at least, I would do it if I was the Illusive Man.

Yes, the starship maunfacturer could benefit by learning new techniques alien to the Alliance's military industrial complex.  If Cord-Hislop Aerospace were, in fact, the corporation that designed the SR-1 then that would be a strong case for Cerberus influence playing a pivitol role Soveriegn's defeat (even if unintentional). It would explain how easily they got the SR-1 schematics. It's definitely possible.

Modifié par The Twilight God, 21 juillet 2011 - 04:45 .

[Arijharn]

The Twilight God wrote...
Are you saying that it either conforms to your assumptions or it is mindless clutter of no real importance?

To be fair? Yes and no, depending on context... but it doesn't conform to my 'assumptions' when the game tells me this. Which is my entire point in the first place. 

The Twilight God wrote...
If you're giving Cerberus credit for stopping Sovereign because they wanted to observe turian technologies and warship building practices it definitely matters. Knowledge of turian technologies and warship building practices did not assist the Normany is sneaking past the geth fleet over Ilos. 

When are you going to argue my 'points' with any degree of relevance to what I said?

I didn't mention anything about Cerberus getting credit for stopping Sovereign, nor did I even hint at making the claims they did (at least, not in this argument although I have in the past). I merely said that at least in some capacity the Turian's and Humans co-operated in the development on the Normandy, I didn't say which parts they did because I simply don't know, although I can make inferrences from dialogue in game.

Which is the entire reason why I even responded to your post in the first place, because I felt that when you disagreed and made the case that there was no co-development (at least, that's how I read your post that I responded to originally) I was a skeptical of your decision to say the least, since I can recall at least once where the game did try to press home otherwise.

TTG wrote...
Yes, the starship maunfacturer could benefit by learning new techniques alien to the Alliance's military industrial complex.  If Cord-Hislop Aerospace were, in fact, the corporation that designed the SR-1 then that would be a strong case for Cerberus influence playing a pivitol role Soveriegn's defeat (even if unintentional). It would explain how easily they got the SR-1 schematics. It's definitely possible.

I agree totally with this and notice how you said techniques, not technologies. What I took from the person's statement (forget which) that humans and Turian's co-developed the Normandy I took that as meaning Turian design philosophies, the cited example being the layout of the CIC. For all we know, that could be the only part the Turian's 'co-developed' (no other examples were given afterall) which stands to reason why things like the Tantalus Drive core (why do I always think of FF9 when I think 'Tantalus'?) and Stealth systems remain exclusively human. Another is apparently the staid Council races approaches to strategy (in the Turian's case: Charge!).

Basically, Cord-Hislop Aerospace being the ones who originally designed and built the first Normandy makes the most sense and is the best explanation for how it is that the Normandy SR-2 was designed and built by Cerberus in secret, there is no convoluted leaps of logic in this case to see how things 'fit together.'