303 réponses à ce sujet

[GreenDragon37]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

I'd like to see Cerberus doing something right for a change, even if it may not be exactly good.

I'd like to see a story where Cerberus isn't even present.

ME2 shouldn't have even had Cerberus, or put into a more minor role. I would have done it a lot differently. They say ME2 is the "Empire Strikes Back" of the series, but I disagree.

Modifié par GreenDragon37, 15 juillet 2011 - 03:45 .

[TMA LIVE]

The fact that they're the product of Research Bases beyond the Omega 4 Relay means they're the product of the Collector Base, or technology from it's wrecked.

[Ieldra]

alperez wrote...
I get your annoyed at what seems to be the same plot points being hammered home over and over again but isn't this the way people get their plot points across?

We have people on this site who despite any evidence that suggests cerberus are anything other than what they were originally written as are actually a magnificently machiavellian organisation whose incredible complex stratagies are whats going to be the difference between winning and losing the upcoming war.

If people haven't taken the plot points by now, then it kind of forces you into regurgitating those same plot points until people understand what you've been trying to tell them all along.

Apart from the annoying repetition:

That's exactly it. I don't like that's all there might be to Cerberus: an organization of cardboard villainy with no redeeming, even less interesting features whatsoever.

It's been said that Cerberus is both the best and the worst of humanity. So far we've seen only the worst. I'd like to see some of the best. I *HATE* black and white scenarios, and I'm very much tempted to take their side regardless just because of the one-sided presentation.

To say nothing of the rampant technophobia of the whole setup with Reaper tech as evil mojo and the blatant Paragon favoritism in all this. The more it seems that ME3 will really be that one-sided, a standard good vs evil story with no moral grey and complexity in the main plot, just mind-numbingly simplistic at the core, the more I fear I'll come regret that I was ever drawn in by the first game.

Perhaps this complaint is premature. But with every "hammering home" of Cerberus' cardboard villainy, any love I still have for the games and their story is slowly hammered out of me.

[Hydrosphere]

Oh FFS for once why can't we have something that doesn't involve Cerberus.

[littlezack]

 I really don't see how anything has been 'hammered home'. People are making conclusions based on single lines of dialogue and comic book solicits, then extrapolating that information into what they think as the most likely scenario, then complaining about the result that they themselves came up with.

[The Twilight God]

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

They did two things right.
Built a new Normandy and brought Shepard back.
Everything else is kind of a wash.

Both of which do not count as they are necessary for the plot.

Cerberus track record is...

Wins: 0
Loses: Every time

It makes no sense. Any rational person would have given up, but TIM just keeps on keeping on.

[Kekkis]

The Twilight God wrote...

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

They did two things right.
Built a new Normandy and brought Shepard back.
Everything else is kind of a wash.

Both of which do not count as they are necessary for the plot.

Cerberus track record is...

Wins: 0
Loses: Every time

It makes no sense. Any rational person would have given up, but TIM just keeps on keeping on.

And Normandy Mk. II is obsolete... You need to upgrade it. How can´t they steal blueprints for Thanix cannon, if some radom Batmanturian from Omega knows how to build one.

[Dean_the_Young]

The Twilight God wrote...

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

They did two things right.
Built a new Normandy and brought Shepard back.
Everything else is kind of a wash.

Both of which do not count as they are necessary for the plot.

Cerberus track record is...

Wins: 0
Loses: Every time

It makes no sense. Any rational person would have given up, but TIM just keeps on keeping on.

Well, someone never played ME2.

[TMA LIVE]

I don't really have a problem with TIM and Cerberus turning into bad guys in ME3. My problem is them turning into bad guys because they don't know what they're doing, and **** up. I feel like I expected better of them then to be doomed to this fate as an incompetent organization, who destroy themselves with their own science. It's like they're becoming the Umbrella Corporation if you made them Pro-human terrorists.

[littlezack]

Typically, when Cerberus screws up, it's because of things outside of their control, as opposed to real incompetence.

Lazarus was screwed up because of a traitor.
Overlord was screwed up because one of their main science guys was overzealous ******.
The Derelict Reaper was screwed up because they didn't know and had no way of knowing that the Reaper could still indoctrinate people even though it was 'dead'.
The Teltin facility screwed up because the guys inside were going further than TIM's orders.

In most cases, it's not so much a lack of intelligence that dooms them, but either outside or inside factors that they couldn't predict. And I think it partially seems worse than it is - likely, TIM has plenty of successful operations. We only hear about the ones that fail because the ones that fail are the ones that need attention. Obviousy, we're not going to get called on a mission to deal with something that's doing just fine.

Modifié par littlezack, 15 juillet 2011 - 06:07 .

[Jkol1]

Experiments to convert scientific knowledge into workable technologies have a high rate of failure. The entire reason we have a patent system is so that innovators can recover the costs of their development research, not just the production costs of the final product.

Cerberus is pursuing a no-holds barred research program and they are doing so with resources that have no foundation in human knowledge. Completely unknown species? Alien technology refined over millions of years? Factor in the predisposition of Cerberus staff to push the limits of safety in pursuit of results and the failure rate should be very high.

Given the stakes that Cerberus plays it should come as no shock that their failures are spectacularly catastrophic.

This doesn't make Cerberus inept. If 99% of experiments fail and the other 1% are lucrative enough to justify the cost anyways then this behavior is rational. I guarantee there are successes. We just see more about the failures because they make for a more dramatic story than the range of commercial and military products that are sold under fronts to fund the creation of sapient cyborg-zombies.

[Xanfyrst]

alperez wrote...
Think of it like the heel in wrestling, you show fans they are the bad guy, but some fans cheer because they don't get why they are bad, so over and over and over again you show them doing bad things until people get the point.

I think you misunderstand something here... some people cheer for heels in wrestling because they're the most interesting characters and most know (I certainly hope) that it's scripted. Take for example CM Punk, he's a heel, but also the best on the microphone of all the wrestlers. He makes the show, not Cena or any of the other boring faces.

[Zulu_DFA]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

I'd like to see Cerberus doing something right for a change, even if it may not be exactly good.

I'd like to see a story where Cerberus isn't even present.

Arrival.

That was a really rare piece of SHIТ storytelling about the inept Alliance, inept Batarians, inept Reapers and inept Shepard.

[littlezack]

NM

Modifié par littlezack, 15 juillet 2011 - 06:54 .

[Bad King]

The Twilight God wrote...

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

They did two things right.
Built a new Normandy and brought Shepard back.
Everything else is kind of a wash.

Both of which do not count as they are necessary for the plot.

Cerberus track record is...

Wins: 0
Loses: Every time

It makes no sense. Any rational person would have given up, but TIM just keeps on keeping on.

Actually...

1. Their science departments successfully manufactured a lot of powerful experimental technology:

-Cerberus Assault Armor
-M-22 Eviscerator Shotgun
-The Arc Projector (successfully deployed by Cerberus against geth in the Skyllian Verge)
-Inferno Armor (successfully used by Cerberus squad leaders in the Skyllian Verge)
-Capacitor Helmet
-Archon Visor
-Kestrel Armor
-Modified the Phalanx and the Mattock
-They successfully experimented with captured collector technology to create the Collector rifle and armor
-And lets not forget the recon hood, sentry interface and umbra visor

2. For more successful Cerberus operations, read their Shadow Broker dossier- there's some info on their project 'trapdoor' and political assassinations.

So I think Cerberus deserve a bit more than 0 points.

Modifié par Bad King, 15 juillet 2011 - 07:18 .

[Seboist]

Bad King wrote...

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

They did two things right.
Built a new Normandy and brought Shepard back.

Their science departments successfully manufactured a lot of powerful experimental technology:

-Cerberus Assault Armor
-M-22 Eviscerator Shotgun
-The Arc Projector (successfully deployed by Cerberus against geth in the Skyllian Verge)
-Inferno Armor (successfully used by Cerberus squad leaders in the Skyllian Verge)
-Capacitor Helmet
-Archon Visor
-Kestrel Armor
-Modified the Phalanx and the Mattock
-They successfully experimented with captured collector technology to create the Collector rifle and armor
-And lets not forget the recon hood, sentry interface and umbra visor

For more successful Cerberus operations, read their Shadow Broker dossier- there's some info on their project 'trapdoor' and political assassinations.

They also created the M-44 Hammerhead. :happy:

[Fixers0]

Bad King wrote...

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

They did two things right.
Built a new Normandy and brought Shepard back.

Their science departments successfully manufactured a lot of powerful experimental technology:

-Cerberus Assault Armor
-M-22 Eviscerator Shotgun
-The Arc Projector (successfully deployed by Cerberus against geth in the Skyllian Verge)
-Inferno Armor (successfully used by Cerberus squad leaders in the Skyllian Verge)
-Capacitor Helmet
-Archon Visor
-Kestrel Armor
-Modified the Phalanx and the Mattock
-They successfully experimented with captured collector technology to create the Collector rifle and armor
-And lets not forget the recon hood, sentry interface and umbra visor

For more successful Cerberus operations, read their Shadow Broker dossier- there's some info on their project 'trapdoor' and political assassinations.

Unfortunatly none of this is plot integral to the story of Mass effect, that they made a good gun is fine, but it doesn't affect most people's lives in the least bits.

[Bad King]

Seboist wrote...

Bad King wrote...

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

They did two things right.
Built a new Normandy and brought Shepard back.

Their science departments successfully manufactured a lot of powerful experimental technology:

-Cerberus Assault Armor
-M-22 Eviscerator Shotgun
-The Arc Projector (successfully deployed by Cerberus against geth in the Skyllian Verge)
-Inferno Armor (successfully used by Cerberus squad leaders in the Skyllian Verge)
-Capacitor Helmet
-Archon Visor
-Kestrel Armor
-Modified the Phalanx and the Mattock
-They successfully experimented with captured collector technology to create the Collector rifle and armor
-And lets not forget the recon hood, sentry interface and umbra visor

For more successful Cerberus operations, read their Shadow Broker dossier- there's some info on their project 'trapdoor' and political assassinations.

They also created the M-44 Hammerhead. :happy:

Good point, that vehicle was a pleasure to drive IMO (although it gets a lot of hate for it's weak armor).

[Someone With Mass]

Seboist wrote...

They also created the M-44 Hammerhead. :happy:

Yeah, that thing is a real powerhouse...

[Dexi]

Seboist wrote...

Bad King wrote...

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

They did two things right.
Built a new Normandy and brought Shepard back.

Their science departments successfully manufactured a lot of powerful experimental technology:

-Cerberus Assault Armor
-M-22 Eviscerator Shotgun
-The Arc Projector (successfully deployed by Cerberus against geth in the Skyllian Verge)
-Inferno Armor (successfully used by Cerberus squad leaders in the Skyllian Verge)
-Capacitor Helmet
-Archon Visor
-Kestrel Armor
-Modified the Phalanx and the Mattock
-They successfully experimented with captured collector technology to create the Collector rifle and armor
-And lets not forget the recon hood, sentry interface and umbra visor

For more successful Cerberus operations, read their Shadow Broker dossier- there's some info on their project 'trapdoor' and political assassinations.

They also created the M-44 Hammerhead. :happy:

Yeah, but that counts as a loss, not a win... 

[Sylvianus]

Me what bothers me is how Cerberus can fight many enemies at once, int the same time, the overcapacity of cerberus to be able to cope with so many things at once. Seriously, Cerberus is so powerful that it can withstand all these attacks?

It is an organization of the shadows, discovery, it is lost.

But, Then, a fight against Aria and her followers, a fight against the Alliance, against the Turian Hegemony, and in M3 they will threat Shepard ? While they are paralyzed, hit from all sides ? WTF ?

Modifié par Sylvianus, 15 juillet 2011 - 07:27 .

[Bad King]

Fixers0 wrote...

Bad King wrote...

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

They did two things right.
Built a new Normandy and brought Shepard back.

Their science departments successfully manufactured a lot of powerful experimental technology:

-Cerberus Assault Armor
-M-22 Eviscerator Shotgun
-The Arc Projector (successfully deployed by Cerberus against geth in the Skyllian Verge)
-Inferno Armor (successfully used by Cerberus squad leaders in the Skyllian Verge)
-Capacitor Helmet
-Archon Visor
-Kestrel Armor
-Modified the Phalanx and the Mattock
-They successfully experimented with captured collector technology to create the Collector rifle and armor
-And lets not forget the recon hood, sentry interface and umbra visor

For more successful Cerberus operations, read their Shadow Broker dossier- there's some info on their project 'trapdoor' and political assassinations.

Unfortunatly none of this is plot integral to the story of Mass effect, that they made a good gun is fine, but it doesn't affect most people's lives in the least bits.

The fact that they can successfully experiment with collector tech without getting lolindoctrinated says a lot to me as well as the fact that they churn out lots of advanced tech which has been highly effective. Why does it have to be integral to the story? A lot of background lore isn't, that doesn't invalidate it.

[Kaiser Shepard]

Fixers0 wrote...

Bad King wrote...

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

They did two things right.
Built a new Normandy and brought Shepard back.

Their science departments successfully manufactured a lot of powerful experimental technology:

-Cerberus Assault Armor
-M-22 Eviscerator Shotgun
-The Arc Projector (successfully deployed by Cerberus against geth in the Skyllian Verge)
-Inferno Armor (successfully used by Cerberus squad leaders in the Skyllian Verge)
-Capacitor Helmet
-Archon Visor
-Kestrel Armor
-Modified the Phalanx and the Mattock
-They successfully experimented with captured collector technology to create the Collector rifle and armor
-And lets not forget the recon hood, sentry interface and umbra visor

For more successful Cerberus operations, read their Shadow Broker dossier- there's some info on their project 'trapdoor' and political assassinations.

Unfortunatly none of this is plot integral to the story of Mass effect, that they made a good gun is fine, but it doesn't affect most people's lives in the least bits.

"Shepard. I need you to go to our research facility on Eden Prime, I'm afraid there's been an incident."

"What is it this time?"

"Our scientists there were working on an experimental new shotgun. Latest intel suggests that the weapon's targeting computer has attained sentience, and subsequently went rogue on the staff-"

"You're ****ting me.... "

[Vertigo_1]

Sylvianus wrote...
But, Then, a fight against Aria and her followers, a fight against the Alliance, against the Turian Hegemony, and in M3 they will threat Shepard ? While they are paralyzed, hit from all sides ? WTF ?

Cerberus isn't fighting against Aria, but what they created is.