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ME Invasion - "Cerberus experiments go wrong" - have they run out of ideas?


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#126
The Twilight God

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Bad King wrote...

1. Actually a lot of them are technological breakthroughs:

Shepard,
We recently had an incident involving the geth at one of our
outposts in the Skyllian Verge. Don't worry; I'm not sending you off to
chase anything down. Our operatives waged a highly successful battle
against a geth scouting party and credited their success to a new
advanced electrical attack device that we finally let them take out of
the lab
. Since their unit is being reassigned for some rest and
relaxation, I thought you should take custody of the weapon in the
meantime.
The weapon is called an arc projector. I sent it to the
Normandy's armory so you can examine it for yourself and use it if you
deem it worthy. It's gone through plenty of tests that indicate it
overloads kinetic barriers and synthetic enemies particularly well, but
laboratory demonstrations are a poor substitute for actual field
reports. We know it works. Now we want to see what it can do in the
right hands. If all goes well, we'll use your tactics to train other
operatives.
-- TIM


As I said, anyone can make such a weapon. Read the description. Does it sound like it is out of this world amazing given the tech level in the mass effect universe? For instance, we can make a viable laser weapon today, but it isn't economical. We can make super soldier armored suits, but they aren't economic. Give Shepard's ability and situation it is understandable that he would receive such items, but those aren't items that would be mass produced and given to an entire army. Notice they gave Shepard THE weapon, not another of the same kind.

Bad King wrote...

Cerberus Assault Armor is designed for shock troops, who are expected to
turn the tide of battle against creatures or forces that would decimate
normal soldiers
. The troops demanded three things in its design:
shields, armor thick enough to last against a superior foe, and a
rechargeable pack to extend a heavy weapon power cell. The only drawback
of the armor is its weight, which the troops carry as a point of pride.
They have a saying: "Out of shape going in, in shape coming out."
-- In-game description

The Cerberus Assault armour and eviscerator has been successfully mass produced and appears to be used by many of the Cerberus troops in ME3.


The Eviscerator, like the majority of the DLC items, is not designed by Cerberus. It's a commercially available weapon. Cerberus Assault Armor is just mechanized heavy armor. Nothing special requiring any technological advancement. It's the equivalent of improving a pistol by making one of a larger caliber and longer barrel.

Bad King wrote...

2. If you re-read my original comment, I never gave Cerberus credit for producing the Mattock/GPS/Phalanx- but they did modify them.


Whoopty-do.

Bad King wrote...

3. Collector armor does not contradict the lore. Collectors have been making deals with the Galaxy's races for centuries prior to ME2. Okeer for example made deals with them. Why couldn't Cerberus do the same?


Cerberus didn't.  If you want to argue otherwise provide evidence. I don't have to prove a negative. The balls in your court.

Besides, Cerberus isn't in the business of helping mysterious non-humans.

Bad King wrote...

As for that quote regarding the Collector beam- Cerberus are saying that they have been unable to replicate the beam gun itself. This doesn't mean that all Collector tech is too hard to replicate.


That was my point.

Why even bother to mention it at all since the tech is no different than our own tech? They just had to "modify it".

#127
Bad King

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Someone With Mass wrote...

Bad King wrote...

I completely forgot about Cerberus's involvement in producing some of the upgrades. Silly me! Info:

masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Research#Shield_Upgrades

It seems Cerberus were responsible for certain upgrades and are actively doing further research in certain fields in order to produce better upgrades in future.


Oh yeah?

http://masseffect.wi...onic_Array).PNG
Image IPB

Quarians manged to do the same and with their limited resources.

No matter what Cerberus does with weapons, armor or shields, it won't impress me.


My point was this:

Bad King wrote...
It seems Cerberus were responsible for certain upgrades and are actively
doing further research in certain fields in order to produce better
upgrades in future.


The fact that Quarians have produced a shield upgrade doesn't contradict this at all.

#128
Someone With Mass

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Bad King wrote...

My point was this:

Bad King wrote...
It seems Cerberus were responsible for certain upgrades and are actively
doing further research in certain fields in order to produce better
upgrades in future.


The fact that Quarians have produced a shield upgrade doesn't contradict this at all.


And my point is that whatever they're doing, anyone can do the same or even better. 

#129
The Twilight God

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Paulinius wrote...

 I'm glad there's a story with more of a focus on Aria and Omega. I'm a bit bored by Cerberus story lines, but I'll wait until I read the comic before I render judgement. 

But there's one question on my mind: how is Cerberus able to travel through the Omega 4 relay?


EDI or Miranda passed it on the TIM.

Adanu wrote...

Wow..... the intelligence level in this thread is mind boggling.

And not in a good way.  Without Cerberus, the Reapers would have gotten to the galaxy already and pretty much killed us all.


The irony in your statement is mind boggling.

And not in a good way. Cerberus did nothing that prevented the Reapers from arriving. Their influence stopped the Collectors from creating a new reaper. Shepard & crew along with the 5th Fleet stopped the Reaper invasion two years prior. The events of Arrival stopped the imminent reaper invasion; however, that was not a Cerberus endeavor.

#130
GodWood

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Someone With Mass wrote...
And my point is that whatever they're doing, anyone can do the same or even better. 

You can use that excuse to criticise anybody.

#131
The Twilight God

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Bad King wrote...

The fact that Quarians have produced a shield upgrade doesn't contradict this at all.



You mean the upgrades we find lying around? How is that an example of Cerberus ingenuity? 

If any character(s) could be given credit for research projects wouldn't it be Mordin and/or EDI?

#132
Bad King

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The Twilight God wrote...

Bad King wrote...

1. Actually a lot of them are technological breakthroughs:

Shepard,
We recently had an incident involving the geth at one of our
outposts in the Skyllian Verge. Don't worry; I'm not sending you off to
chase anything down. Our operatives waged a highly successful battle
against a geth scouting party and credited their success to a new
advanced electrical attack device that we finally let them take out of
the lab
. Since their unit is being reassigned for some rest and
relaxation, I thought you should take custody of the weapon in the
meantime.
The weapon is called an arc projector. I sent it to the
Normandy's armory so you can examine it for yourself and use it if you
deem it worthy. It's gone through plenty of tests that indicate it
overloads kinetic barriers and synthetic enemies particularly well, but
laboratory demonstrations are a poor substitute for actual field
reports. We know it works. Now we want to see what it can do in the
right hands. If all goes well, we'll use your tactics to train other
operatives.
-- TIM


As I said, anyone can make such a weapon. Read the description. Does it sound like it is out of this world amazing given the tech level in the mass effect universe? For instance, we can make a viable laser weapon today, but it isn't economical. We can make super soldier armored suits, but they aren't economic. Give Shepard's ability and situation it is understandable that he would receive such items, but those aren't items that would be mass produced and given to an entire army. Notice they gave Shepard THE weapon, not another of the same kind.


The Arc Projector is a prototype. Shepard is basically field testing it for Cerberus so that  they can 'train other operatives'. This implies that it is feasible to mass produce the weapon so that Cerberus operatives can use it in the future. If a weapon that has been so successfully deployed against geth is so easy and obvious to produce, then perhaps the council or the alliance should have given something similar to Shepard to aid him in his campaign against Saren and the geth in ME1. It would have been a great help.

The Twilight God wrote...

Bad King wrote...

Cerberus Assault Armor is designed for shock troops, who are expected to
turn the tide of battle against creatures or forces that would decimate
normal soldiers
. The troops demanded three things in its design:
shields, armor thick enough to last against a superior foe, and a
rechargeable pack to extend a heavy weapon power cell. The only drawback
of the armor is its weight, which the troops carry as a point of pride.
They have a saying: "Out of shape going in, in shape coming out."
-- In-game description

The Cerberus Assault armour and eviscerator has been successfully mass produced and appears to be used by many of the Cerberus troops in ME3.


The Eviscerator, like the majority of the DLC items, is not designed by Cerberus. It's a commercially available weapon. Cerberus Assault Armor is just mechanized heavy armor. Nothing special requiring any technological advancement. It's the equivalent of improving a pistol by making one of a larger caliber and longer barrel.


The Cerberus assault armor is unique in its design- it combines several innovations; "...shields, armor thick enough to last against a superior foe, and a rechargeable pack to extend a heavy weapon power cell." This is more than simply mechanised heavy armour.

The Twilight God wrote...

Bad King wrote...

3. Collector armor does not contradict the lore. Collectors have been making deals with the Galaxy's races for centuries prior to ME2. Okeer for example made deals with them. Why couldn't Cerberus do the same?


Cerberus didn't.  If you want to argue otherwise provide evidence. I don't have to prove a negative. The balls in your court.

Besides, Cerberus isn't in the business of helping mysterious non-humans.


You claimed that it contradicts the lore that Cerberus gained collector technology. I was merely pointing out how easy it would be for Cerberus to gain technology:

"They are most well known for their odd trade requests for which they
offer new technologies, often of a startling level of advancement. Their
requests usually involve the trade of living beings in odd numbers and
varieties, such as two dozen left-handed salarians, sixteen sets of batarian twins, a krogan born of parents from feuding clans, or two dozen "pure" quarians — quarians that have never left the Migrant Fleet due to illness, importance to the fleet, or disability. One of their current interests is in healthy human biotics." -- Mass Effect wiki; info taken from the codex.

And Cerberus are in the business of helping non-humans as long as it benefits them- they have made deals with batarian slavers for example(see Pragia).

Modifié par Bad King, 16 juillet 2011 - 01:24 .


#133
Bad King

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Someone With Mass wrote...

Bad King wrote...

My point was this:

Bad King wrote...
It seems Cerberus were responsible for certain upgrades and are actively
doing further research in certain fields in order to produce better
upgrades in future.


The fact that Quarians have produced a shield upgrade doesn't contradict this at all.


And my point is that whatever they're doing, anyone can do the same or even better. 


If the Quarians had produced all of the things that I listed as Cerberus innovations on their own accord then your point would be valid. However the fact that they produced one shield upgrade that Cerberus hadn't already produced doesn't mean that "...whatever they're doing, anyone can do the same or even better".

Modifié par Bad King, 16 juillet 2011 - 01:22 .


#134
Bad King

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The Twilight God wrote...

Bad King wrote...

The fact that Quarians have produced a shield upgrade doesn't contradict this at all.



You mean the upgrades we find lying around? How is that an example of Cerberus ingenuity? 

If any character(s) could be given credit for research projects wouldn't it be Mordin and/or EDI?


No a lot of the upgrades that we get are Cerberus innovations built by the Normandy's scientists. See my list earlier on.

#135
Someone With Mass

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None of the upgrades that actually matters are Cerberus', though. Like the Thanix cannon, the shield upgrade, or the armor upgrade.

#136
JamieCOTC

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I half expect Shep to find out s/he is dying do to a Cerberus SNAFU at some point in ME3.

#137
The Twilight God

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Bad King wrote...

The Arc Projector is a prototype. Shepard is basically field testing it for Cerberus so that  they can 'train other operatives'. This implies that it is feasible to mass produce the weapon so that Cerberus operatives can use it in the future. If a weapon that is so successfully deployed against geth is so easy and obvious to produce, then perhaps the council or the alliance should have given something similar to Shepard to aid him in his campaign against Saren and the geth in ME1. It would have been a great help.


I don't think you understand what mass produce means. A handful of devices for special ops is not mass production. If that thing isn't in the hands of every single Alliance squad it isn't in mass production.

Bad King wrote...

The Cerberus assault armor is unique in its design- it combines several innovations; "...shields, armor thick enough to last against a superior foe, and a rechargeable pack to extend a heavy weapon power cell." This is more than simply mechanised heavy armour.


It is exactly the definition of mechanized heavy armor. Increased armor, increased shield generator strength (that alone makes it heavy armor), added onboard battery for heavy weapons. It's mechanized in that the armor helps the wearer move. No normal human being could carry that type of weight around and move fluidly. Like some of the armor pieces Shepard can pick up from shops in the vanilla game.

Like I said, they took what already exists and increased the amount. Whoopty-do.

Bad King wrote...

You claimed that it contradicts the lore that Cerberus gained collector technology. I was merely pointing out how easy it would be for Cerberus to gain technology:


It would be easy for TIM to reveal every Cerberus team to the Council and surrender himself. So what? What he could do isn't relevent. He didn't.

Bad King wrote...

And Cerberus are in the business of helping non-humans as long as it benefits them- they have made deals with batarian slavers for example(see Pragia).


They gave the slavers credits they would have gotten from someplace else otherwise. How does that example show Cerberus helping the batarian people possibly gain a tactical advantage?

If the Hegemony was requesting human biotics and were offering a billion credits a pop or a trillion credits for a tantalis drive core, do you think Cerberus would give it too them?

Modifié par The Twilight God, 16 juillet 2011 - 01:30 .


#138
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JamieCOTC wrote...

I half expect Shep to find out s/he is dying do to a Cerberus SNAFU at some point in ME3.


Implanted with Reaper technology and now as the Reapers draw near this becomes a severe problem.

#139
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Someone With Mass wrote...

None of the upgrades that actually matters are Cerberus', though. Like the Thanix cannon, the shield upgrade, or the armor upgrade.


So what? None of those upgrades would be good for anything without a ship to put them on. Even the ship would be useless without EDI.

The upgrades are very helpful, but they are not necessary. EDI however is invaluable and EDI is a Cerberus construction.

#140
Someone With Mass

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Saphra Deden wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

None of the upgrades that actually matters are Cerberus', though. Like the Thanix cannon, the shield upgrade, or the armor upgrade.


So what? None of those upgrades would be good for anything without a ship to put them on. Even the ship would be useless without EDI.

The upgrades are very helpful, but they are not necessary. EDI however is invaluable and EDI is a Cerberus construction.

And she wouldn't be invaluable if Sovereign wasn't destroyed so parts of him couldn't be salvaged, and Sovereign wouldn't be destroyed if it wasn't for Shepard, and if it wasn't for Liara, Shepard wouldn't know what the hell those visions meant, and if it wasn't for Shepard, Liara would be stuck in that bubble, and if it wasn't for Tali, Shepard wouldn't be a Spectre, and if it wasn't for Shepard, Tali would be dead.

That crap can go on forever.

#141
REgentleman

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So they all deserve some measure of credit for things turning out the way they did? :P

#142
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Someone With Mass wrote...

And she wouldn't be invaluable if Sovereign wasn't destroyed so parts of him couldn't be salvaged, and Sovereign wouldn't be destroyed if it wasn't for Shepard, and if it wasn't for Liara, Shepard wouldn't know what the hell those visions meant, and if it wasn't for Shepard, Liara would be stuck in that bubble, and if it wasn't for Tali, Shepard wouldn't be a Spectre, and if it wasn't for Shepard, Tali would be dead.

That crap can go on forever.


Wow, you're something else. Why stop there? What about Shepard's parents, grand parents, and their teacher who pushed them to make a better life, and that caveman who evaded being eaten by that leopard...


Kid, you can't just move goal posts everytime someone counters you with a fact.

#143
The Twilight God

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Bad King wrote...

The Twilight God wrote...

Bad King wrote...

The fact that Quarians have produced a shield upgrade doesn't contradict this at all.



You mean the upgrades we find lying around? How is that an example of Cerberus ingenuity? 

If any character(s) could be given credit for research projects wouldn't it be Mordin and/or EDI?


No a lot of the upgrades that we get are Cerberus innovations built by the Normandy's scientists. See my list earlier on.


There are no Cerberus R&D personnel on the Normandy. Just Mordin and EDI. Oh, and I think Miranda dabbles in weaponry. As I recall you can't even use the research terminal without Mordin. So "Normandy scientists" are Mordin, EDI and maybe Miranda.

Most upgrades descriptions are equivalent to "Overcloacked CPU. Replaced stock heatsink with aftermarket heatsink. Now computer runs faster and cooler." It's always a modification of existing tech or current tech being used in an application other than its original intent. Hardly what I'd call a technological advancement. If I take a an M-80 and make it bigger and call it N-90 does that constitute a technological advancement in the field of fireworks?

#144
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Actually you can use the research terminal without Mordin.

#145
Drazil666

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Don't you have to be an engineer or sentinal to research without Mordin?

#146
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Drazil666 wrote...

Don't you have to be an engineer or sentinal to research without Mordin?


No. The cost just won't be as severe.

#147
Someone With Mass

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Saphra Deden wrote...

Wow, you're something else. Why stop there? What about Shepard's parents, grand parents, and their teacher who pushed them to make a better life, and that caveman who evaded being eaten by that leopard...


Kid, you can't just move goal posts everytime someone counters you with a fact.


I stop when you're stopping with your childish insults.

Because, I'm not a kid just because I don't feel like going on so seriously over facts about fiction all the time like you.

But, if you want, I can start referring to you in an insulting manner too.

Would you like that, twerp?

#148
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All I know Cerberous suck period and are racist!!

#149
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Someone With Mass wrote...

I stop when you're stopping with your childish insults.

Because, I'm not a kid just because I don't feel like going on so seriously over facts about fiction all the time like you.

But, if you want, I can start referring to you in an insulting manner too.

Would you like that, twerp?


Awww, you're cute. If you want to play the maturity card then try debating maturely every now and then. Stop moving the goal posts every time someone counters one of your statements with a fact. Quit spouting off about how you don't really care about this debate. We all know you're lying anyway because if you didn't care you wouldn't feel the need to tell us.

You can insult me all you want I don't mind at all.

#150
REgentleman

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Disagree intensely in peace, dudes

The Twilight God wrote...


Most upgrades descriptions are equivalent to "Overcloacked CPU. Replaced stock heatsink with aftermarket heatsink. Now computer runs faster and cooler." It's always a modification of existing tech or current tech being used in an application other than its original intent. Hardly what I'd call a technological advancement. If I take a an M-80 and make it bigger and call it N-90 does that constitute a technological advancement in the field of fireworks?

Again, the breakthrough on geth shielding, the redundant shield generator and smart targeting go a bit beyond routine improvement. They really are things one could call a technological advancement in the field.

Modifié par REgentleman, 16 juillet 2011 - 02:03 .