303 réponses à ce sujet

[Nizzemancer]

Cerberus official story all the time: It's not our fault, this wasn't how we intended it to happen.
Cerberus slightly less official story: Good, good...everything is proceeding as I have foreseen, soon the rebellion will be crushed and young skywa...no wait that's...something else.

For all we know Cerberus might have had a 1000 successes for every one failure, we only see the failures because if every mission was to go check up on an operation that was completely fine and going exactly according to plan, all fine and dandy like then that wouldn't really be much of a fun mission now would it?

[Someone With Mass]

Saphra Deden wrote...
Awww, you're cute. If you want to play the maturity card then try debating maturely every now and then. Stop moving the goal posts every time someone counters one of your statements with a fact. Quit spouting off about how you don't really care about this debate. We all know you're lying anyway because if you didn't care you wouldn't feel the need to tell us.

You can insult me all you want I don't mind at all.

Yeah, I bet you feel like a man, trying to be superior over the internet. That's quite the accomplishment.

And you can stop taking your own baseless statements as facts, as you have clearly no idea about how I think.

Then again, it's true that I don't care how it goes for this discussion. I'm just here for the lolz.

Because discussing Cerberus in a serious manner like most people do results in quite a lot of it.

I just laugh at the Cerberus apologists.

[Someone With Mass]

Nizzemancer wrote...

Cerberus official story all the time: It's not our fault, this wasn't how we intended it to happen.
Cerberus slightly less official story: Good, good...everything is proceeding as I have foreseen, soon the rebellion will be crushed and young skywa...no wait that's...something else.

For all we know Cerberus might have had a 1000 successes for every one failure, we only see the failures because if every mission was to go check up on an operation that was completely fine and going exactly according to plan, all fine and dandy like then that wouldn't really be much of a fun mission now would it?

Then again, that's all we have to go on, since there aren't that many lists of their successes.

I'm just basing my judgement of what I've seen and not of what could have been. Because that's pointless, as it has no impact on the game.

[Arijharn]

Still, bringing back someone from the dead is a pretty big deal...actions of Wilson aside anyway.

I like what Cerberus represents because I sort of agree with the mentality of trying to do everything you can (in the shadows) to better protect themselves, but it's getting increasingly difficult to just accept that if BioWare insists on portraying them as if not outright incompetent, somewhere close behind. Saying stuff like: 'for every failure there's 10 successes' is all very good (and I intellectually would have to agree' but I think Someone With Mass has a point, it's completely meaningless when we observe their activities. How can they be 'morally grey' if everything we've seen tends to fail horribly, and yet we don't really see 'morally good' things that Cerberus does (I can think of one or two easy to miss situations; one is a Mission Complete screen that says they sent humanitarian effort in the aftermath of Horizon I think and the other is Talia's thank you note).

Even things that are truly supposedly 'morally grey' like Teltin gets fouled up by workers under the employ of TIM have gone rogue, which just makes TIM look worse as an ineffectual administrator.

It's starting to get 'really hard' to objectively look at them and not sort of 'eye rolling' at their shenanigans (and I say shenanigans because how can I take them seriously?) now. I literally did eye-roll actually when I read the synopsis of Invasion.

[Seboist]

Cerberus also provided support to the rescue and relief of the survivors of the Hugo Gernsback according to the Mission Complete screen.

[Adanu]

The Twilight God wrote...

Paulinius wrote...

 I'm glad there's a story with more of a focus on Aria and Omega. I'm a bit bored by Cerberus story lines, but I'll wait until I read the comic before I render judgement. 

But there's one question on my mind: how is Cerberus able to travel through the Omega 4 relay?

EDI or Miranda passed it on the TIM.

Adanu wrote...

Wow..... the intelligence level in this thread is mind boggling.

And not in a good way.  Without Cerberus, the Reapers would have gotten to the galaxy already and pretty much killed us all.

The irony in your statement is mind boggling.

And not in a good way. Cerberus did nothing that prevented the Reapers from arriving. Their influence stopped the Collectors from creating a new reaper. Shepard & crew along with the 5th Fleet stopped the Reaper invasion two years prior. The events of Arrival stopped the imminent reaper invasion; however, that was not a Cerberus endeavor.

When you actually read the lore, the books, read between the lines, and listen to EDI, maybe you'll figure it out. Until then, you're posting ignorance.

[Seboist]

Saphra Deden wrote...

I wish Bioware would quit contradicting its own lore. Supposedly one Cerberus cell can't recognize another, so why all the logos everywhere? Cerberus people stand out like a sore thumb.

The whole Cerberus logo thing reminds me of the "Wolfenstein" series and it's absurd abundance of swastikas.

Modifié par Seboist, 16 juillet 2011 - 02:41 .

[Praetor Knight]

Saphra Deden wrote...

I wish Bioware would quit contradicting its own lore. Supposedly one Cerberus cell can't recognize another, so why all the logos everywhere? Cerberus people stand out like a sore thumb.

You mean the ones potentially from Cord-Hislop Aerospace?

Edit: I don't think Cerberus as a whole would use this logo, just one of their front companies:

Modifié par Praetor Shepard, 16 juillet 2011 - 02:48 .

[sympathy4saren]

Moral grey....Cerberus yes, Reapers no.

Reaper technology is selectively placed for selective purpose by the farmers. We exist only because they allow us to exist. We are a crop to them. There is no moral grey about it. We, to the Reapers, are like corn is to us.

I gotta be honest, the more and more I learn about the unfolding of Mass Effect 3, the more concerned I am getting by also leaving this trilogy with a huge letdown. Earth-centric plot and all.

C'Mon, Casey Hudson. Bring back Mass Effect and not this Gears of War garbage I've seen so far, with Halo energy swords and guitars to boot.

[Nizzemancer]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Yeah, sure, "for all we know". Unless we start seeing these theoretical success stories we may as well assume they didn't happen.

Ok be that way then...booohooo, Cerberus is inept, I can't enjy this game until they do stuff that works.

This is really tiresome, really.
We don't see the Alliance or even C-sec doing ANYTHING USEFUL before saren attacks the citadel either, do we have to have fleet battles and riots every 5 minutes now to show us that they aren't just eating donughts and sipping coffe somewhere?

And Cerberus seem to have quite the weapons and armor testing capabilities but I guess you won't count that to their successes since you don't actually get to see labrats testing the Avalanche succesfully or some other weapon in a controlled environment?

This is just ridiculous, bioware, if you make me take a guided tour around an uneventfull cerberus base where everything goes as planned with their experiments I will make sure all your developers stubs a toe in 10 years or less! And it'll hurt too.

[Golden Owl]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Actually you can use the research terminal without Mordin.

How do you do that?

[Praetor Knight]

Golden Owl wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

Actually you can use the research terminal without Mordin.

How do you do that?

I think it's cuz you only need Mordin to have access to the room, to then reach the Terminal.

[In Exile]

Ieldra2 wrote...
A Cerberus experiment gone wrong? Again? Haven't they been shown enough as incompetent cardboard villains doing EVIL human experiments. I'm so tired of this increasingly black-and-white picture I get from the ME plots and their increasingly technophobic tendencies. I can only hope that this isn't what the ME3 plot comes down to as well, or I'll leave the trilogy with a big disappointment.

Cerberus is really bad at their job. Saying "Cereberus has an experiment that goes out of control" is like saying "Apple working on new macbook". It's honestly part of their constitution or something: dangerous high-risk, low-reward research paradigm must be pursued with total disgard for any and all safety features. 

Have they run out of ideas? Must every bad thing that happens be traced back on the unconquerable evil mojo that is Reaper technology and Cerberus' experiments, including the typical villain's incompetence which will in the end play a bigger role in their defeat than the hero's abilities?  

Cerberus being incompetent doesn't have anything to do with how Shepard wins.

Bioware, if you are serious about showing more moral grey in ME3, then please try something new and apply the "moral grey" to Cerberus and Reaper technology as well. I'd like to see Cerberus doing something right for a change, even if it may not be exactly good. And I don't want Reaper tech to be like a evil magic In Space.

Just because it doesn't jive with the personal fanfic you're writting doesn't mean it isn't a bad idea. 

[RyuGuitarFreak]

What bugs me is that since after Mass Effect 2, ALL STORIES have been about Cerberus/or have Cerberus involved. Seriously, enough of these guys. The galaxy is/should been bigger than them.

[Sylvianus]

In Exile wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...
A Cerberus experiment gone wrong? Again? Haven't they been shown enough as incompetent cardboard villains doing EVIL human experiments. I'm so tired of this increasingly black-and-white picture I get from the ME plots and their increasingly technophobic tendencies. I can only hope that this isn't what the ME3 plot comes down to as well, or I'll leave the trilogy with a big disappointment.

Cerberus is really bad at their job. Saying "Cereberus has an experiment that goes out of control" is like saying "Apple working on new macbook". It's honestly part of their constitution or something: dangerous high-risk, low-reward research paradigm must be pursued with total disgard for any and all safety features.

Totally agree. That's why Cerberus is doomed to failure. They do not take seriously the security of an experiment. Research at all costs, whatever the consequences.

This isn't incompetence, it is a destructive logic. They were lucky at times, but that's all.

[Phaedon]

If the writers say that Cerberus is incompetent, you might want to accept it. It's cannon.

I mean, Cerberus is mostly made up of ultranationalists, do you know what the average IQ for them tends to be?

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Crazy MS Paint skills.

Modifié par Phaedon, 16 juillet 2011 - 12:03 .

[Sylvianus]

They never said that Cerberus was incompetent. It is you who had interpreted in such a way. So it's not a cannon.

As people do with the CIA today. " CIA is incompetent ", but obviously no one really knows what they did, what they do.

What is cannon is an experiment at the expense of security that has gone wrong.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 16 juillet 2011 - 12:06 .

[Phaedon]

Sylvianus wrote...

They never said that Cerberus was incompetent. It is you who had interpreted in such a way. So it's not a cannon.

As people do with the CIA today. " CIA is incompetent ", but obviously no one really knows what they did, what they do.

What is cannon is an experiment at the expense of security that has gone wrong.

Cerberus Failures:

SSV Geneva - Team killed, last survivor points out to Cerberus.
Pragia - Cell goes rogue, all personnel killed. Subject escapes.
Rachni experiments - Failed, rachni unleashed accidentally.
Lazarus Project - Most staff die, as well as security resources.
Ascension Project - Operative abandons Cerberus with intel, failed.
Attack on Quarian Fleet - Failed. Quarians kick their asses.
Overlord - Failed. Almost all personnel killed because some one with a medical degree didn't realize that no brain functions correctly after being forced to be awake for hours.
Reaper IFF - Indoctrinated, all personnel killed.
Retribution - Personnel on the Retribution base die or are detained, several operatives detained, bases raided, subject escapes, several front companies uncovered.
Invasion - Massive failure
ME1 - Potential failure of protecting bases

And how many projects does Cerberus run at a time?

[CroGamer002]

Phaedon wrote...

And how many projects does Cerberus run at a time?

Half a dozen?



And since when is CIA incompetent @Sylvianus?

Modifié par Mesina2, 16 juillet 2011 - 12:27 .

[Zulu_DFA]

Nizzemancer wrote...

We don't see the Alliance or even C-sec doing ANYTHING USEFUL before saren attacks the citadel either, do we have to have fleet battles and riots every 5 minutes now to show us that they aren't just eating donughts and sipping coffe somewhere?

And Cerberus seem to have quite the weapons and armor testing capabilities but I guess you won't count that to their successes since you don't actually get to see labrats testing the Avalanche succesfully or some other weapon in a controlled environment?

This argument doesn't fly with Cerberus haters for some scientifically inexplicable reason.

But Bioware's overly cartoonish post-ME1 storytelling/presentation style certainly doesn't help.

Phaedon wrote...

If the writers say that Cerberus is incompetent, you might want to accept it. It's cannon.

Crazy Briton vocabulary skills.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 16 juillet 2011 - 12:31 .

[Sylvianus]

Phaedon wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...

They never said that Cerberus was incompetent. It is you who had interpreted in such a way. So it's not a cannon.

As people do with the CIA today. " CIA is incompetent ", but obviously no one really knows what they did, what they do.

What is cannon is an experiment at the expense of security that has gone wrong.

Cerberus Failures:

SSV Geneva - Team killed, last survivor points out to Cerberus.
Pragia - Cell goes rogue, all personnel killed. Subject escapes.
Rachni experiments - Failed, rachni unleashed accidentally.
Lazarus Project - Most staff die, as well as security resources.
Ascension Project - Operative abandons Cerberus with intel, failed.
Attack on Quarian Fleet - Failed. Quarians kick their asses.
Overlord - Failed. Almost all personnel killed because some one with a medical degree didn't realize that no brain functions correctly after being forced to be awake for hours.
Reaper IFF - Indoctrinated, all personnel killed.
Retribution - Personnel on the Retribution base die or are detained, several operatives detained, bases raided, subject escapes, several front companies uncovered.
Invasion - Massive failure
ME1 - Potential failure of protecting bases

And how many projects does Cerberus run at a time?

Excuse Me.


And who would have succeeded? The Alliance ? The Council ?

It is clear that Cerberus did research more dangerous than all that is known so far. That's normal that they have failed. Rachnis are  very smart, the Geth is the same. I mean... really ? Is it easy to control an intelligence race ? Yeah. Blame Cerberus, indeed.

The quarians when they invented the Geth were they incompetent ? No, of course. It is a proof of their genius. A genius which was destroyed by the recklessness.

The operation on the Quarian fleet ? Failed ? Why ? There was a traitor, they were ready to succeed. And it's a fleet, an immense fleet.  To succeed in threatening a fleet is something extraordinary with so few people.  To claim that they have failed as their attempt was nothing is simply ridiculous.

Biotic humans. It seems that it exists. Because of whom? Cerberus as well.

I do not like Cerberus. But I do not like the simplistic idea of a child they have all failed. Do you realize how dangerous were their experiences ? This is obviously more complicated than that.

This is not incompetence. competence and intelligence, they have. This is the logic of their own that is not reasonable. What they did isn't accessible to anyone, and they managed to get some results. What is more than  impressive.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 16 juillet 2011 - 12:41 .

[Nizzemancer]

Mesina2 wrote...

Phaedon wrote...

And how many projects does Cerberus run at a time?

Half a dozen?



And since when is CIA incompetent @Sylvianus?

Since a little thing called watergate.
or since they decided not to believe a threat was real that would have stopped two planes from crashing into the WTC-buildings despite several early warnings...how's that for a failure?
All those assassination-attempts on castro?
there are many examples, go look 'em up yourself if you'd like.