887 réponses à ce sujet

[Finis Valorum]

Calob wrote...

Don't mean to bring my God refence in here, but Hell no, well maybe lesbiands, but no guy on guy action.

Are you by any chance a member of EA marketing's focus group for this game?

[KawaiiKatie]

IsaacShep wrote...

Calob wrote...
well maybe lesbiands, but no guy on guy action.

Could it be possible, no, it can't be, but maybe, are you happen perhaps to be a... straight guy?

[shepskisaac]

But Kaidan's bisexuality was hinted. HEAVILY.

Horizon -> "Losing you it was like losing a limb...! Why didn't you call me?!?!"

And as we know from ME1 Kaidan screams and snaps only when he's in love with someone.

Logical conclusion -> Kaidan's in love with male Shepard and his feelings are exposed during the emotional moment on Horizon.

Finis Valorum wrote...

Calob wrote...
Don't mean to bring my God refence in here, but Hell no, well maybe lesbiands, but no guy on guy action.

Are you by any chance a member of EA marketing's focus group for this game?

Post of the Thread! xDDD

Modifié par IsaacShep, 18 juillet 2011 - 12:20 .

[K_Tabris]

IsaacShep wrote...

But Kaidan's bisexuality was hinted. HEAVILY.

Horizon -> "Losing you it was like losing a limb...! Why didn't you call me?!?!"

And as we know from ME1 Kaidan screams and snaps only when he's in love with someone.

Logical conclusion -> Kaidan's in love with male Shepard and his feelings are exposed during the emotional moment on Horizon.

Agreed. How else to take that phrase?  They weren't really that close?

[naledgeborn]

IsaacShep wrote...

But Kaidan's bisexuality was hinted. HEAVILY.

Horizon -> "Losing you it was like losing a limb...! Why didn't you call me?!?!"

And as we know from ME1 Kaidan screams and snaps only when he's in love with someone.

Logical conclusion -> Kaidan's in love with male Shepard and his feelings are exposed during the emotional moment on Horizon.

I didn't know about that and he is indeed my canon VS. My conversation with him usually goes "I work for Cerberus now you loser." But even if he did say that limb line it can be assumed that it was written with the persecptive of a female Shepard in mind as it's the default and she saves him rather than Ashley. Also it can be a statistical thing and Bio Ware took the easy way out. But the line is there so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on Kaidan. That means only 3 s/s that makes sense to me. As long as they don't twist characters around (and yes sexuality does effect personality even if the effect is caused by external catylsyts) and that people that want s/s don't get some half assed writing/dialouge. 

[shepskisaac]

NovinhaShepard wrote...

Agreed. How else to take that phrase?  They weren't really that close?

Some people say "ohh it's just deep friendship". But they forget what's said in ME1 how Kaidan snaps when he's romantically invested in someone.

[PiercedMonk]

Sepewrath wrote...

Well personally I don't care about characters being bisexual, homosexual or anything else you might be able to come up with. However, I would prefer them to maintain character intergrity and unless the romance system undergoes a complete overhaul, it'll be hard to do that with you just being nice to Ashley suddenly has her coming on to a female Shepard.

It wouldn't be that difficult a concept to integrate into their established characters. Especialy with Ashley and Kaidan. Just a few lines of dialog.

A quick example:

Kaidan: I'm glad you said something Shepard. It seems kind of selfish, but we might very well be looking at the end of the galaxy; we need to find happiness while we can, right?
Shepard: You'll get no argument from me. I just want to know why you never indicated that you were interested before.
Kaidan: Before, you were my commanding officer. You'd just become the first human Spectre. We were on a mission to stop the geth and prevent Saren from opening the veritable gates of hell. It didn't seem like the right time.
Shepard: And now?
Kaidan: Now our situation is even more dire, but none of that really matters.

There, nice and simple. I'm sure the good folks at BioWare who get paid to write stuff could do a better job. Bam! Problem solved.

[CheeseEnchilada]

I don't think there's any question that the potential is there. The question lies in how probable it is, and how it would be written.

I wouldn't mind seeing the VS as a s/s option since I don't think it would be jarring. Shepard's seen the character once in three years; people can change in that amount of time, or recognize feelings that were already there. Some of the dialog, especially on Horizon, shows that the VS cares deeply for Shepard. It's entirely possible to interpret it as a good friendship, of course, but I can certainly see why people say the VS sounds like a scorned lover.

That leads to how a s/s romance with the VS would be written. As we're talking about Bioware, I have the utmost faith in them, and trust that it would be done tastefully and come across as heartfelt. My only concern would be making the relationship seem 'equal' to the others, as they already have a game or two of romantic content. If you start a new romance in ME3, I'd hope they'd treat it as such instead of trying to 'catch up' to the other romances, but still have an ending that shows commitment.

So yes, I can see it happening and I can see it being done well. I'm personally holding out for Vega, but I hope the VS s/s supporters get their wish.

[shepskisaac]

naledgeborn wrote...
I didn't know about that and he is indeed my canon VS. My conversation with him usually goes "I work for Cerberus now you loser."

That's why you didn't get the limb and "why didn't you call me?!" lines, picking the Renegade option skips part of his lines.

naledgeborn wrote...
But the line is there so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on Kaidan.

That's the point. It doesn't matter if the lines were intended for FemShep. They're in the game and available for male Shepard, so they're part of the story.

naledgeborn wrote...
That means only 3 s/s that makes sense to me. As long as they don't twist characters around (and yes sexuality does effect personality even if the effect is caused by external catylsyts) and that people that want s/s don't get some half assed writing/dialouge.

*Personally* that's what I predict to happen - Kaidan, Vega + new female (whoever she is). 1 extra male/male option becuase there's already Liara for FemShep (and many other smaller f/f flings in ME1 & ME2). But we'll see. Apart from Raphael Sbarge's spilling that BW indeed wrote gay romance for Kaidan in ME3, we don't know anything about who and how many will there be.

[Sepewrath]

That doesn't work, because they did show interest in ME1. Character integrity exist for the character overall, not just in each individual save file. Ashley and Kaidan showed that when they were interested in Shepard they pursued it, even when competing with Liara. So that or anything similar would not be effective in not simply giving the character a 180. They would be hard pressed to not force it in there, no matter how talented they may be.

[1956403859]

Calob wrote...

Don't mean to bring my God refence in here, but Hell no, well maybe lesbiands, but no guy on guy action.

You sound like a troll. Or maybe someone who's too young to be playing Mass Effect in the first place.

[jeweledleah]

IsaacShep wrote...

NovinhaShepard wrote...

Agreed. How else to take that phrase?  They weren't really that close?

Some people say "ohh it's just deep friendship". But they forget what's said in ME1 how Kaidan snaps when he's romantically invested in someone.

I just have to reply to that becasue its been bugging me for a while.

Kaidan was and to a point still is a bit old fashioned.  he stood up for Rana mostly becasue she was a friend and a girl being hurt needlessly.  he SNAPED not becasue of rana.  he snapped becasue he had a knife pulled at him and was about to die.  it was self defence pure and simple.  HE DIDN"T KILL ANYONE TO PROVE HIS LOVE  and I wish people would stop claiming that he did.

there are 2 reactions you can have when your life is in danger.  fight or flight.  Kaidan's instict seems to be fight which IMO is admirable.  but it has nothing to do with Rana, Rana stopped being relevant after he got up and demanded that Virnus leave her alone.  he didn't hit Virnus bioticaly, he used his voice.  and you know something?  I will bet you a dollar, right now.  that if any other friend of his from that little circle they had would get hurt the way Rana was?  he would ALSO stand up for them.  he was written as the kind of person that stands up for what he believes is right.

and how would you take that phrase?  whichever way your heart desires, but that doesn't make your interpretation a correct one.  it makes it your interpretation.

Sepewrath wrote...

That doesn't work, because they did
show interest in ME1. Character integrity exist for the character
overall, not just in each individual save file. Ashley and Kaidan showed
that when they were interested in Shepard they pursued it, even when
competing with Liara. So that or anything similar would not be effective
in not simply giving the character a 180. They would be hard pressed to
not force it in there, no matter how talented they may be.

also this.

Modifié par jeweledleah, 18 juillet 2011 - 12:56 .

[PiercedMonk]

Sepewrath wrote...

That doesn't work, because they did show interest in ME1. Character integrity exist for the character overall, not just in each individual save file. Ashley and Kaidan showed that when they were interested in Shepard they pursued it, even when competing with Liara. So that or anything similar would not be effective in not simply giving the character a 180. They would be hard pressed to not force it in there, no matter how talented they may be.

I disagree.

Depending on the options you choose during character creation, not only is Shepard a different person, the galaxy is a different place. My Earthborn character isn't getting any calls from his mother like a Spacer does, and a Colonist's parents are dead.

If character creation options conjure or destroy whole other characters -- i.e. Captain Hannah Shepard -- than is it really so much of a stretch to accept that chracter creation options can also make Kaidan or Ashley slightly less likely, though still inclined, to jump into Shepard's pants?

[shepskisaac]

Sepewrath wrote...

 Ashley and Kaidan showed that when they were interested in Shepard they pursued it, even when competing with Liara.

And if you turn Kaidan down (as FemShep), he even apologizes and swears his flirting won't happen again. And before that he repeats that if he's out of line, Shep should just say one word and he will stop. He's established as a person who won't throw force on someone he knows/thinks doesn't want him. Thus he obviously won't flirt or pursue male Shepard in ME1. Why? Because he thinks Shepard is straight. It's already part of the story, written in ME1. When he admits to FemShep that he didn't realize she wasn't straight (triangle scene with FemShep/Kaidan/Liara) he also makes it clear he wouldn't bother flirting/pursuing FemShep in the first place had he knew. He assumes the same thing about ManShep and FemShep, that Shep is straight. But with the gender difference, it's only FemShep that he thinks he has a chance with since a straight woman likes men. Straight ManShep (in his assumption) doesn't like men. So if he thinks ManShep is straight, it would not only be logical he wouldn't force himself onto him but also go very well with Kaidan's character, personality, culture and the way he approaches people.

Modifié par IsaacShep, 18 juillet 2011 - 01:03 .

[Ryzaki]

PiercedMonk wrote...

Sepewrath wrote...

That doesn't work, because they did show interest in ME1. Character integrity exist for the character overall, not just in each individual save file. Ashley and Kaidan showed that when they were interested in Shepard they pursued it, even when competing with Liara. So that or anything similar would not be effective in not simply giving the character a 180. They would be hard pressed to not force it in there, no matter how talented they may be.

I disagree.

Depending on the options you choose during character creation, not only is Shepard a different person, the galaxy is a different place. My Earthborn character isn't getting any calls from his mother like a Spacer does, and a Colonist's parents are dead.

If character creation options conjure or destroy whole other characters -- i.e. Captain Hannah Shepard -- than is it really so much of a stretch to accept that chracter creation options can also make Kaidan or Ashley slightly less likely, though still inclined, to jump into Shepard's pants?

This.
Colonist Sole Survivor Shep should be a very different person from Spacer War Hero Shep. 

[Finis Valorum]

jeweledleah wrote...

there are 2 reactions you can have when your life is in danger.  fight or flight. 



There's actually a third but it's fairly worthless at least when faced with most human opponents, namely freeze.

Modifié par Finis Valorum, 18 juillet 2011 - 01:10 .

[shepskisaac]

jeweledleah wrote...

I just have to reply to that becasue its been bugging me for a while.

Kaidan was and to a point still is a bit old fashioned.  he stood up for Rana mostly becasue she was a friend and a girl being hurt needlessly.  he SNAPED not becasue of rana.  he snapped becasue he had a knife pulled at him and was about to die.  it was self defence pure and simple.  HE DIDN"T KILL ANYONE TO PROVE HIS LOVE  and I wish people would stop claiming that he did.

there are 2 reactions you can have when your life is in danger.  fight or flight.  Kaidan's instict seems to be fight which IMO is admirable.  but it has nothing to do with Rana, Rana stopped being relevant after he got up and demanded that Virnus leave her alone.  he didn't hit Virnus bioticaly, he used his voice.  and you know something?  I will bet you a dollar, right now.  that if any other friend of his from that little circle they had would get hurt the way Rana was?  he would ALSO stand up for them.  he was written as the kind of person that stands up for what he believes is right.

Looks like you don't remember that dialog too well. Shep asks "I don't see you snapping easily, what made you finally did it?" to which he replies "Vyrnuss hurt Rahna" and continues to tell how it went and then how he not just defended Rahna, but did more than that. He hit Vyrnnus extra hard because of the fact that it was Rahna which killed Vyrnnus. Then Shep says how it was a noble thing to do, you must've cared for Rahna alot blah blah and Kaidan responds "I did blah blah" and the goes on to tell how Rahna was NOT irrelevant after that, but she just didn't want to be with Kaidan as she was scared of him, of how badly he reacted. I know you don't like it, but that's just how this story is told. The reason he hit Vyrnnus this strongly was because he was romantically invested in Rahna.

jeweledleah wrote...
and how would you take that phrase?  whichever way your heart desires, but that doesn't make your interpretation a correct one.  it makes it your interpretation.

Well, take your own adivce Because everybody knows your heart desires certain way as well (100% straight Kaidan way)

Brodyaha wrote...

Fair enough if you want to interpret the line that way; I'm just saying that's how I took the scenario.

Sure, not everyone will interepret things the same way. I'm just saying that in the context of Rahna story, the way he snaps at Shepard on Horizon makes it clear to me that he's romantically invested in Shepard, just as he was in Rahna which was the reason he hit Vyrnnus so hard the turian actually died.

Modifié par IsaacShep, 18 juillet 2011 - 01:15 .

[Inquisitor Recon]

[quote]Eromenos wrote...
Oh, but they do. BioWare doesn't get to "play with queer images" by exclusively using cop-out "mono-gendered" asari and Kelly the Human Screensaver, then just call it a day and pretend to be good people and big damn heroes.
[/quote]

No they do not. They don't owe you, or me, or anybody a damned thing. You are being completely irrational now. The only people they owe is their shareholders and investors. You ought to understand this before you start making demands from them.

[quote]
Think that I've been wronged? First off, it's not just me. Second, there is nothing imagined about ME's purposeful homophobic exclusion against people like me. Third, you can dispense with your disparaging accusation about us wanting "special treatment." Our wanting human treatment is only "special" insofar as it is as-yet-unheard-of coming from the heteropatriarchal ME devs.
[/quote]

Yeah you think, you've been wronged, but that does not make it so. There is no purposeful exclusion and "people like you" are no more special than the rest of us. You are exactly the type of over-entitled fanboy I am talking about. Your standard are so warped you think you are being oppressed if you don't get what you want. Heteropatriarchal? If that's even a word it's a load of nonsense. The fact that you don't have a quota doesn't mean you are being discirminated against.

[quote]
Why would Shepard's sexuality not need to be determined in the game itself? How else? Entering into relationships/flirtations/afternoon-delights are things that establish who/what Shepard has a sexual interest in.
[/quote]

You missed me point. Let my repeat myself, why does any of these need to be determined in game? The answer? It doesn't. You just want it to be, nothing more. You want this sort of nonsense? Then ask for it, but cut the "we're being discriminated against" whining.

[quote]
AFAIK, most of us are ok enough using skin-color and/or bone structures to determine Shepard's genetic ethnicity/race. If you want to push BioWare into adding textual labeling for our protagonists' home country, that's your thing. But at this point I fail to see how this relates to your distaste against queer Shepards being able to express who she/he is. My thing and your thing don't even compare. Shepard's Earth ancestry has little bearing upon anything in ME. Shepard's sexuality has everything to do with her/his human need for closeness, intimacy, and simply an adult person whom Shepard loves.
[/quote]

Express who she/he is? You're losing (or already lost) sight of what this game is, it isn't about "gay Shepard's journey". It's not some sort of dating simulator. Your sexuality isn't half as important think it is. This feelgood nonsense of yours has little to no bearing in the game. The last two titles of the series confirm that.

[quote]
Heterosexuality isn't the "standard" for anything. It's socially constructed to be overvalued. The United States comprise the divorce capitol of the world(give or take), and the only advantages/boons that heterosexual pairings have over others are the result of homophobic "laws" and culture that continually villify any person who doesn't live up to the heterosexual script enforced by those who want a black-and-white world, something that is honestly too strangulating even for heterosexual people.
[/quote]

Oh... so here it is. Now I don't know what sociology 101 taught you, but heterosexuality is the standard and is NOT a social construct. Nor are gender roles or many of the other things you probably think are social constructs. Homphobic laws and culture? Vilifying you? Please don't tell me you're serious here. Surely you don't believe what you're typing now, do you? To your credit however, at least you explain your beliefs rather than spam stuff like Blaclash.

[quote]
The "majority" of the current human population is likely heterosexual, but even then there is no excuse for portraying roughly 99% hetero and 1% bisexuals who are tailored to be suitable primarily for straight men. Heterosexuals may be the majority, but most certainly not to that slanted degree. Also, the queer minority are certainly more than the tokenized cop-outs the ME team forces on us. Short answer- there aren't so few of us as you often think, and even when we're fewer, that's a poor reason to think you can try to whitewash us away.
[/quote]

The majority of the human population has always been heterosexual, it always will be heterosexual. This is simple biology. Twist the numbers however you like but even if Mass Effect's society is 99% heterosexual and 1% bisexual, it doesn't matter. This isn't an important aspect to the game and nobody owes you quotas.

[quote]
That is what you do when you talk about your voice not being heard. And I'm going to freely admit there can be no middle-ground for our opposing viewpoints. You see it as "stability" and "sanity" for the status quo if (excessive) heteronormativity continues, but you overlook the way it damages every person, especially to queer people much more so than straight people. Therefore I don't entertain the suggestion of "fairness" for your view because the view you've been supporting has had its say well beyond its share and at disproportionate expense against people like me.
[/quote]

Voice being heard? You're damned obnoxious on these boards. Your more vocal than the damned Tali fanboys and that is saying a ton! There certainly can't be any middle ground with somebody like yourself who wants to see society engineered into some deranged vision of theirs. I would much rather have stability and the status quo than whatever your fanatical views would create. There are however some more reasonable than yourselff who don't want the DA2 "solution" and, don't expect pre-existing characters to be made bisexual because you want to bang them! Damages people? This is a video game, it isn't reality, it's a work a fiction. If a lack of homosexuals hurts your fellings that's too bad. You don't deserve some sort of quota because you feel bad. How many times are you going to say "people like me?" I don't hate you, you're just some nameless individual on the internet. So cut the sob story.

[quote]
"Different" as opposed to "diverse." The distancing negative in favor over the equalizer. Your choice of words clings to a constructed hierarchy in which someone like you monopolizes the most benefits. But if you don't cop to the things that are always handed to you in an ideology that overvalues someone just for being straight, well, then you must be still a good person. And you'll coincidentally retain those benefits that only exist by segregating queer people into less.
[/quote]

You're offended by my use of different? It's the "diversity police"
fanatics like yourself who make people like me sit through "diversity
seminars" rather than actually do my job. It isn't a "constructed" hierarchy. It's statistics thanks to genetics.

[quote]
That framework of "same standards" you mentioned is purposefully and invisibly stacked against queer people, yet they can only work so long as nobody drags those inconvenient facts out into the open. They're no doubt "common" standards you adopted for yourself, and seeing as you rely on the numbers-game, the concept of majority-rule is your sole justification, which is why I'm disappointed, but not surprised that you didn't go in depth about this on your own.
[/quote]

Stacked? I will not treat anybody special because of whom or what they choose to sleep with. I won't compromise my standards just because you want to tear down and rebuild society to your liking. You have no basis upon which to think I should adher to your social and moral views.

[quote]
Ah, we're a "small %." I refuted that part earlier...what you like to think of as a "small %" is actually more responsible for the changes to DA2 and ME3 than the BioWare devs you defend so much. Logic implies that the "small %" is much bigger and/or being heard. Either or both outcomes is anathema to your framing of us, so this doesn't speak well for BioWare's ability to continually patronize us as you'd like to think. Short answer- the ME devs realize which way the wind's blowing.
[/quote]

Facts are stubborn things. You are still a small % and the fact that certain people like David Gaider buy into this political correct nonsense doesn't change that.  You want the real answer? The ME devs were pressured into this by the David Gaider PC types whose ego demands it and it also buys them press from journalist rags like the Escapist.

[quote] You answered it yourself. Lots of us queers speak uor queer LIs. Not many Asians(myself included) call out for Asian LIs. Meanwhile we're able to determine Shepard's skin-color, and for most of us that isn't nothing. We don't require an Asian LI to reaffirm those of us who are Asian. Yet we haven't been able to determine Shepard's sexuality to the satisfaction that we do require, and for all of us that is unacceptable. It takes overt expression to the same degree that straights get to perform. Not one bit less, and you simply wanting to avoid thinking about us is just not good enough of a reason for us to sit back.
[/quote]

So you feel some compulsive need to "reaffrim" that you are homosexual? Interesting. Yet that doesn't doesn't mean anybody owes you such a thing or that such development effort couldn't have been used better elsewhere. Of course, if I had my way you would sit back and accept the game you were given instead of behaving like a spoiled child. If you had your way you would walk all over any game developer and get whatever you demanded out of them. You refuse to compromise yet think I should just let you get whatever you want? Your expectations simply aren't grounded in reality and life's going to be a dissapointment to you.

[quote]
Funny you should bring up quotas. It's BioWare's own fault for purposefully mismanaging our depictions. If we could count on them to portray both queer and straight characters (well, TBH at least the queer ones) in diverse fashion and in normalized quantities where one does not overtly dominate the other, then we'd have no need  for quotas to correct BioWare's screwups. Alas.
[/quote]

You're blaming your sense of entitlement on Bioware? How typical. The fact that you weren't depicted to your liking doesn't mean they mismanged anything. Also I'm glad to see you finally stop pretending you don't only care about yourselves. "One dominating the other?" Are you seriously expecting a 50-50 split or believe that every LI should be bisexual? Because that is simply not justifiable. There is no need for quotas to correct anything. Only in your head there is.

[quote]
DA2 set the new minimum standard. That team went to greater lengths than BioWare had ever committed to in the past in order to avoid harmful tokenism against queer characters. Not 100% successful, but they demonstrated significant and marked progress. They didn't write queer characters to be placating towards mainstream heterosexist America's preconceptions about us. It wasn't primarily a PSA/coming-out(that gets tiresome), but rather it was affirmation to actual queer people and the straight people who are able to "get it."
[/quote]

Minimum standard? In case you missed it, DA2 was crap. The management of the LIs was crap for everybody but a handful that think like yourself too. DA:O did it far better and most people would agree with that. Mainstream heterosexist America?  Somebody with your fringe views has no right to be judging the United States.

[quote]
What is it about allowing characters to be bisexual at later stages that turns you off so much? You don't have to keep buying into all the negatively-cast stereotypes.
[/quote]

They shouldn't be made bisexual because you want them to be. Such an act on Bioware's part would be nothing more but pandering to spoiled children. I like said characters as they've already been established and don't feel they should be changed because you refuse to accept that they won't sleep with you. Negative stereotypes? I find it easier to relate with hetereosexuals, but this has nothing to do with stereotyping. If Bioware wants to pander to you, they should add a new character rather than make existing ones bisexual because of your demands. Now of course this James Vega would likely be violating every sort of regulation and standard imaginable for enlisted military personnel but it beats Garrus, Miranda, Ashley, and everybody else deciding they are bisexual.

Modifié par ReconTeam, 18 juillet 2011 - 02:28 .

[jeweledleah]

IsaacShep wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...

I just have to reply to that becasue its been bugging me for a while.

Kaidan was and to a point still is a bit old fashioned.  he stood up for Rana mostly becasue she was a friend and a girl being hurt needlessly.  he SNAPED not becasue of rana.  he snapped becasue he had a knife pulled at him and was about to die.  it was self defence pure and simple.  HE DIDN"T KILL ANYONE TO PROVE HIS LOVE  and I wish people would stop claiming that he did.

there are 2 reactions you can have when your life is in danger.  fight or flight.  Kaidan's instict seems to be fight which IMO is admirable.  but it has nothing to do with Rana, Rana stopped being relevant after he got up and demanded that Virnus leave her alone.  he didn't hit Virnus bioticaly, he used his voice.  and you know something?  I will bet you a dollar, right now.  that if any other friend of his from that little circle they had would get hurt the way Rana was?  he would ALSO stand up for them.  he was written as the kind of person that stands up for what he believes is right.

Looks like you don't remember that dialog too well. Shep asks "I don't see you snapping easily, what made you finally did it?" to which he replies "Vyrnuss hurt Rahna" and continues to tell how it went and then how he not just defended Rahna, but did more than that. He hit Vyrnnus extra hard because of the fact that it was Rahna which killed Vyrnnus. Then Shep says how it was a noble thing to do, you must've cared for Rahna alot blah blah and Kaidan responds "I did blah blah" and the goes on to tell how Rahna was NOT irrelevant after that, but she just didn't want to be with Kaidan as she was scared of him, of how badly he reacted. I know you don't like it, but that's just how this story is told. The reason he hit Vyrnnus this strongly was because he was romantically invested in Rahna.

jeweledleah wrote...
and how would you take that phrase?  whichever way your heart desires, but that doesn't make your interpretation a correct one.  it makes it your interpretation.

Well, take your own adivce Because everybody knows your heart desires certain way as well (100% straight Kaidan way)

I remember that dialogue very well, but I don't attach killing of virnus to Rana.  why?  because when he actualy tells the story and how it went down?  he didn't kill him becasue of rana, he killed him becasue it was him, or virnus.  listen to the dialogue again.  he say that virnus beat the hell out of him and then he pulled out a knife, a military grade tallon, straight in his face.  so Kaidan snapped and kicked virnus away.  he just ended up kicking him so hard that it broke turian's neck. SELF DEFENCE.

as for my heart's desire?  my main heart's desire is that he's not available for fresh romance at all.  barring that my heart's desire is that whatever they do to Kaidan doesn't end up giving him a freaking hidden high school crush ala Tali.  he was originaly written as a character that was far too mature for that.  he was written as a character who spoke his mind and who was accepting of people on individual level, including Turians even though he could have hated them.  3 year crush on a dead commander woudln't fit his character. not being atracted and growing atracted after reunion with prompt, ala Garrus would fit MUCH MUCH better.

edited - just remembered and i'm not 100% sure since its been a while, but I'm about 80% sure that in non-romanced femshep/male shep dialogue he doesn't even mention Rana by name in that conversation.

Modifié par jeweledleah, 18 juillet 2011 - 01:34 .

[Optiic7]

I really don't see what the big deal is, i really don't mind if Ashley and Kaiden are Bi anythings possible in ME and even if there are made bi in ME3 you don't have to romance them if your the same sex you.

[shepskisaac]

jeweledleah wrote...
I remember that dialogue very well, but I don't attach killing of virnus to Rana.  why?  because when he actualy tells the story and how it went down?  he didn't kill him becasue of rana, he killed him becasue it was him, or virnus.  listen to the dialogue again.  he say that virnus beat the hell out of him and then he pulled out a knife, a military grade tallon, straight in his face.  so Kaidan snapped and kicked virnus away.  he just ended up kicking him so hard that it broke turian's neck. SELF DEFENCE.

And when Shep asks in the first place what made you finally snap he responds "He hurt a girl, Rahna blah blah". Of course he was defending himself and her and that he would defend any friend of his (or anyone in danger for that matter). But at the core of why he snapped so badly was his love/crush for Rahna.

jeweledleah wrote...
3 year crush on a dead commander woudln't fit his character.

Really? How so? What has speaking his mind and respecting people to do with his feelings? He can't control them, nobody can. You think he forgot about FemShep just like that after she turned him down? He obviously won't hit on her anymore because that's his culture and how he respects people's choices, but it doesn't mean he didn't have any feelings for her anymore. And frankly, if he managed to move on I would fully expect his feelings/crush, call it whatever you want, to reappear after seeing Shep back.

[SchnityMcGee]

I think Kadien could be bi.
He's way too well groomed to be completely straight.
Ashley is butch enough to be in the female version of UFC. She could totally be bi too.

[AngelicMachinery]

ReconTeam Vs Eromenos FIGHT!

[Ryzaki]

AngelicMachinery wrote...

ReconTeam Vs Eromenos FIGHT!

Hellz yeah. *gets popcorn*