887 réponses à ce sujet

[jlb524]

Ghost Lightning wrote...
Argh.

Indeed.

[Ghost Lightning]

jlb524 wrote...

Ghost Lightning wrote...
Argh.

Indeed.

lol. These topics are hard to argue cause it makes sense to have them all possibly bi. You win 

[jlb524]

Ghost Lightning wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

Ghost Lightning wrote...
Argh.

Indeed.

lol. These topics are hard to argue cause it makes sense to have them all possibly bi. You win 

Glory glory hallelujah!

Thanks for understanding! 

[Ghost Lightning]

jlb524 wrote...

Ghost Lightning wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

Ghost Lightning wrote...
Argh.

Indeed.

lol. These topics are hard to argue cause it makes sense to have them all possibly bi. You win 

Glory glory hallelujah!

Thanks for understanding! 

Logic is logic. 

I might just..."take" Kaiden

Modifié par Ghost Lightning, 20 juillet 2011 - 06:16 .

[shepskisaac]

jreezy wrote...
Could you explain why?

Did cutting Tali's romance with ManShep in ME1 make her lose attraction to any males in general and become asexual?

[jlb524]

Ghost Lightning wrote...

Logic is logic. 

I might just..."take" Kaiden

Lol!  XD

[shepskisaac]

jreezy wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...

jreezy wrote...
Could you explain why?

Did cutting Tali's romance with ManShep in ME1 make her lose attraction to any males in general and become asexual?

Simple yet effective. I get it now. Thank you.

Always a pleasure

[Ghost Lightning]

rofl

[jlb524]

To be honest (as much as I push the all Bi LI thing because I love it) I don't think they will do it in ME3. Why? Just because there are like...8 past LIs and I don't see them making alternate s/s content for each of them as well as continuing on the m/f stuff. I think they will do it with a few past LIs though...both Ashley and Kaidan may be the most reasonable as I feel they will make new romance paths for both to accommodate new players. If they do such, I can see them also adding in s/s romance paths...they are already putting effort into a 'new' romance with each so...why not? However, if they do go the all bi LI route, I won't complain. And I'm speaking from a position of someone who's very happy with the only existing f/f romance (Liara) and wants to remain friends with the existing female romance options.

However, I still support the DA2 method of having LI's open to both genders in future games, where there's only like, 4 LIs. I think it's a good direction for them to go in, just as they removed other restrictions from romance, based on race/class/morality and have also added in more male romances (even though the majority plays through female romances).

[My_Decemberling]

Wait...Wait... I think I just saw the impossible. Four people on BSN actually had a debate with each other and ended it respectfully without divulging into personal insults?... I never thought I'd see the day... I'm so - I'm so happy

[Ghost Lightning]

My_Decemberling wrote...

Wait...Wait... I think I just saw the impossible. Four people on BSN actually had a debate with each other and ended it respectfully without divulging into personal insults?... I never thought I'd see the day... I'm so - I'm so happy

Viva la ME3! It's bringing us together.

[jlb524]

Rejoice!

[SkyGazer]

My_Decemberling wrote...

Wait...Wait... I think I just saw the impossible. Four people on BSN actually had a debate with each other and ended it respectfully without divulging into personal insults?... I never thought I'd see the day... I'm so - I'm so happy
~crying lady gif~

lol xD

[Eternal Dust]

My_Decemberling wrote...

Wait...Wait... I think I just saw the impossible. Four people on BSN actually had a debate with each other and ended it respectfully without divulging into personal insults?... I never thought I'd see the day... I'm so - I'm so happy

*snip gif*

I believe it's the work of

[Inquisitor Recon]

[quote]Eromenos wrote...
Indeed, BioWare does owe us. They thought to have it both ways by exploiting exclusively bisexual hourglasses as toys for dudebros and then thought to ride that wave as if they're Big Damn Heroes for inclusiveness. Wrong. BioWare doesn't get to move a muscle without getting called on their willful BS at all times.
[/quote]

No they don't owe you anything. It's not that hard of a concept to understand. You can whine and complain about them all you want but they don't owe you anything. End of story. They made an effort to pander to you but instead of being grateful you whine even more? You think you deserve sympathy and whatever you demand? Get over yourself? You know, sometimes I am a bit heavy-handed in my discussions with others in the S/S crowd. Some of them simply want something and request it, and I'm opposed to it for many reasons I've gone over elsewhere. Yet you're exactly the type of ungrateful and over-entitled fanboy that yells the loudest.

[quote]
Last I checked, shareholders and investors are every bit as part of the business as  producers/developers are. As in, all of them collectively answer to the good-will and spending power of consumers/clients....which, as I will always point out, demonstrably include greater and greater quantities of your dreaded vocal queer gamers and queer-friendly straight gamers.
[/quote]

Shareholders and investers aren't going to give a damn if you go about complaining that Bioware hasn't done enough for you. It's the bottom line they care about and you aren't going to have any noticeable impact on that. Greater and great quantitites of vocal queers? Here is a hint for you, nobody cares outside of the cult of the politically correct. You got a gay option in DA:O and rather than being grateful for what some would say is an "act of kindness" you still suffer from a persecution complex because you can't sleep with whomever you want? You aren't going to earn any sympathy.

[quote]
Tsk. You said yourself I'm no more special than anyone else. And yet you think seeing lots of "my people" mixed together with str8s is just too much. You should try to start making sense, any day now.
[/quote]

What are you talking about boy? You're clearly so detached from reality, I don't think I'd make sense to you unless I agreed with everything you said.

[quote]
Come to think of it, since we're on this I'd say you're the one who feels wronged. That's sad. The idea of enduring queer male presences throughout your pimp-frigate would no doubt be jarring for one such as you.
[/quote]

Yes I feel wronged, and I have a valid reasons to do so. You however feel wronged because Bioware isn't pandering enough to you and you lack the ability to sleep with whomever you choose regardless of gender. You've actually stated that you think Bioware owes you.

[quote]
Mmm, yes. H-e-t-e-r-o-p-a-t-r-i-a-r-c-h-a-l. H-e-t-e-r-o-p-a-t-r-i-a-r-c-h-y. I'm sure Google will attend to you. Google Scholar would be better.
[/quote]

I don't buy into fringe sociology nonsense paraded by very political college professers who couldn't teach something useful you see. But it's good for them if they can make some money off you I suppose.

[quote]
You often use light terms regarding "imagined" oppressions. Discriminated against sounds so much better for your claims, as it helps you to try minimizing and hopefully dismissing something that is larger, uglier, enduring...but which you can shut from your head if you box it into a throwaway sound-byte you're used to throwing around. Terms like homophobic distancing don't suit your purposes quite so well, I'll admit. Your use of "discrimination" implies that slanted information goes both ways as if queer and straight are at equal political standing, with all the current focus on queer meaning that in your book some sort of imbalance has occurred. This is just you wanting to distract from oppressions that are "mundane and invisible" by way of heterocentric over-valuing of exclusive M/F couplings. Anyway, the truth you don't like is that slanted information does not flow both ways in equal measure at all; the homophobic approach to media depictions such as ME is the "norm" you value so much. The "norm" by which you base everything doesn't exist without condemning all other sexualities into far less than the equals they truly are to M/F interactions. They are all norms. This heterosexuality you speak of...it is never more special than my homosexuality. Someone like you claiming otherwise does not make it true.
[/quote]

Oh yes... the big bad white straight males out to get you. I don't know when discrimination crossed into "not getting what I want" but clearly for you it has. Now maybe you're under the impression that you represent 50% of the population. maybe you're under the impression that your sexuality is far more important than it actually is. Regardless, you are on equal political standing and treated the same under the law at least here in the United States. Imbalance? Many cultures believe homosexuality to be an immoral act, you represent quite a small % of the population and most straight people simply don't care your gay, they just don't want to hear about it. With that in consideration you are quite well represented in the media. Nobody knows your sexual interests unless you go shouting it out to people, why the hell is it so important to you that people know? Do you expect them to care?

[quote]
I presume that you  go on about hetero being some "default" in every person's beginning no-questions-asked regardiing life as well as character creator. At least, repeating as such is your way of wishing it were so. Alas. In ME as in life, people determine their sexualities. Someone who pursues an opposite-sex relationship or coupling is performing heterosexuality. Someone who pursues a same-sex relationship or coupling is performing homosexuality. And, those who can manage both to some degree are performing bisexuality.
[/quote]

Of course I presume people are heterosexual unless I have reason to believe otherwise. I have never had to ask somebody if they were gay nor felt the need to. You'll find that most people do that. If it offends you, that's too bad. Now yet again you have failed to answer my question. Why do you think you need the capability to "define" yourself in ME? The answer remains the same. You don't need it, you just want it.

[quote]I know. Oh, I know. 'Tis scandalous to level the heteros down into some baseline next to the queers. This is me telling you that because straights in ME get to determine themselves, then so shall I. That is what ME owes me, if you'll recall.
[/quote]

But you aren't owed anything, understand? Like it or not the game cannot provide options for whatever one might like to try to do as Shepard, so why are you thinking otherwise?

[quote]
You'd rather we be "nice queers" who act like pets grateful for a bone. I think not; I've had more success when bashing my detractors' failings rather than play nice to their faults. I prefer my way because I'm not the one who has to play up to homophobic framing about me or anyone like me. Dredging up BioWare's homophobia rightfully directs the burden back onto them. Remember! Homophobia. Not discrimination. Homophobia.
[/quote]

The fact of the matter is that you SHOULD be grateful as some of you are for the options Bioware gave you in ME3. But you however... you think they OWE you such options, you think you should be able to sleep with whomever you want regardless of gender. Bioware's homophobia? Are you being serious right now, because this is one of the most insane things I've ever heard somebody convince themselves of. For whatever reasons, they did something nice for you and gave you an option in DA:O and you still accuse them of homophobia? This is fanaticism, pure and simple. You've had more success bashing your detractors failings? It'll be a cold day in hell before you ever convince me of anything with such baseless claims. Forget the rest of the S/S crowd, it is you, and people with similar views to your own who are the problem here. You're the reason your group doesn't deserve to be pandered to.

[quote]
This relates so much to you playing white-knight for a corporation that cares not for either of us besides both our spending potentials. And, spin potential. If I don't dredge up BioWare's cavalier exploitation of homophobic politics for your sake, you get to sleep better thinking your bros there are model citizens. It's not my responsibility to help you sleep.
[/quote]

White knight? I've always been honest with my opinion of Bioware and it isn't always kind. Cavalier exploitation of homophobic politics? This is nonsense. You're are seeing things that don't exist. And if you sleep better pretending your entire team is a bunch of closet bisexuals, it is not my, nor Bioware's responsibility to help you sleep.

[quote]
Express who she/he is? Mmm, yes, that quirky fulcrum of role-playing. And life, too. Queers and straights both do this to establish their identities as sexual human beings. The "default norm" is just a pretty homophobic way of elevating straightness well over its due.
[/quote]

So you are incapable of roleplaying as a different person and are incapable of roleplaying as yourself without being a flaming homosexual? Well that sounds more like your problem than my own. Straightness well over it's due? My my, you have quite the high opinion of homosexuals. Tell me how much of the population do you think is gay?

[quote]
http://cinemademerde..._Straight.shtml
The king character mentioned in the article was made to express copious overcompensating (and conjectural at best) exclusive heterosexuality to the point of performing overt distancing homophobia. Now, we know in ME a person does not need to go quite so far just to establish heterosexuality, or even opposite-sex leanings. But both 300 and ME have been equally homophobic insofar as they consistently denied expressions of affirming homosexual male relationships or couplings.
[/quote]

I love how people can see whatever they are looking for in a movie like this. Of course that doesn't make it true, but it's a fascinating behavior, don't you think? As far as I'm concerned 300 was just an over the top action movie. Now I'm sure ameatur psychologists can find all sorts of hidden messages in a film like this, just as political bloggers can find all sorts of political messages. But how many of them are true? Ask the director. The fact that you even consider "distancing" to be homophobia only shows your warped standards here. If your looking for "homosexual male couplings" go look up some porn. Why should anybody appeal to your sexual interests if they don't want to?

[quote]
Excuse me, but in SOC 101 everything was always and still are social constructs. My mostly apolitical classroom didn't go to the lengths I do regarding analysis of human sexuality, but the teacher at least did us the service of pointing out that the "norm" privilege behind the exclusive label is arbitrary and mandated by hypocrites. Gender roles too. People who exert those homophobic/sexist laws and culture do so to monopolize their own gains. Wannabes attach themselves to these methods as well. The ME devs fall in here.
[/quote]

Your thinking is exactly why I think most sociology courses are dead ends that exist only to employ professors. One can argue anything is a social construct. Regardless, these exist for a reason and aren't going to go away because you think your idea for society is better. Well it doesn't work that way, as you'll someday find out. "Norm privilege behind the exclusive label is arbitrary and mandated by hypocrites?" I'm sorry that you bought into everything your professor was feeding you but this is a load of nonsense. I hope you didn't get your degree in it.

[quote]
Nay. Since we're still on this, the majority of people are bisexual to some small or large degree. The middle/gray area in the spectrum. Most people in the U.S., for example, perform and express heterosexuality the majority of the time because of homophobia, but a great many of them harbor life-long same-sex feelings of attraction. It can be "minor" such as simply being able to recognize and appreciate what others may like in one's own sex, "moderate" like feeling attracted to same-sex friends, or "major" like full-blown passion. Plus anything and everything in between those. Since most of the people we're talking about cling to socialized confinements within their gender-roles in the U.S., they'll identify as straight and so from a physical standpoint, they perform straightness. In practice, most are straight. But once again, hardly to the degree you imply.
[/quote]

I hate to tell you but that is more SOC101 crap that is detached from reality. I don't know where you're from but I've lived in the United States my entire life, in quite a liberal state, and this is nonsense. Even here you would probably get your ass kicked by implying that having respect for a fellow man means you have a sexual attraction to him. Socialized confinements in their gender roles? Well you must either think all of the women here in the United States are in the kitchen making sandwiches (hint: they're not) or this is more unsubstantiated modern sociology nonsense designed to employ college professors.

[quote]
Few people are 100% ****** or hetero. But I'm certain none of that's important to you. What's important to you is barking about excessively lopsided numbers that skew in favor of the imagined exclusive straightness you've overlaid onto the world. Therefore, it does matter. Euphemistically speaking, I'd prefer not to be sidelined for your comforts. Frankly speaking, I feel no responsibility if you end up with nightmares about Commander John Shepard and Commander Kaidan Alenko grinding in the AI Core.
[/quote]

I know you believe that, but it isn't true. Which is a damn shame considering how dedicated you are to the idea, but again that isn't my problem. But I really adore your attempts to classify my thinking or convince me I'm in the closet. Now I happen to feel no responsibility if you end up crying yourself to sleep that a virtual LI didn't want to sleep with you because of your gender. I take no responsibility for anything you're going to end up doing in the real world, even if you slice "ReconTeam" into the corpse of somebody you murdered.

[quote]
Ah...do you know your ancient histories? Native American cultures pre-genocide and Greek traditions pre-Christianism run counter to your claims. They may not be easy reading for you, but they are great reading.
[/quote]

As a whole I have no doubt that I know my history better than you know yours, although I have not obsessively studied homosexuality as you have. Needless to say, the way the Greeks slept with boys and other men doesn't prove most of them weren't heterosexual. Nor do I think that this is respectable behavior.


[quote]
I'm so glad we appear to get more attention than the Tali fanboys. That is a good thing. We need more queer. We need less fanboy-stroking. Such a coincidence that the homophobic ME2 team did so anyway for the Tali fanboys. And even the F/F fanboys. Such a coincidence.
[/quote]

Saying "homophobic ME2 team" basically renders any of your so called arguments invalid as far as I'm concerned. I'd imagine this is like what dealing with an indoctrinated person is like before they turn into a husk and try to kill you.

[quote]
My use of, ah, "people like me" refers to the many queer gamers(at the least, since we're talking about video games here) who play BioWare products and who deserve to be treated as well as straight gamers are. But thanks for reminding me I'm an individual too. Of course your intent is to make it seem as if queer people and queer-friendly straight people are isolated targets you're used to talking down to at your leisure...as individuals who know no one and nobody knows? Well. Here. I. Am. But unlike those craven around here who think BioWare's token homophobic offerings are worth something, perhaps you've noticed I like to talk down to all my opponents as well.
[/quote]

Queer gamers this, queer gamers that. Here is a hint for you, you aren't half as important as you think you are and the sooner you realize that the sooner we'll all be better off. Only a handful of others in your group seem to suffer from this persecution complex of yours. No I'm not talking down to homosexuals, I am talking down to you and you only. Here you are? And who are you exactly? Some righteous internet crusader with an agenda to push? You aren't owed anything you aren't important because of your fringe radical thinking when it comes to sociology. Now I am as equally proud and equally stubborn as yourself, yet at least I recognize I am just $60 to Bioware and don't delude myself into thinking they owe me anything.

[quote]
Offended? If I were the type to fall for your derailment tactics by bristling into defensiveness like most of the craven around here do, then I would be offended(?). Rather, this socially constructed hierarchy of sexuality has to cling to overtly segregating language both for its own authority and for its protection. Since you subscribe to it for the unearned privileges it confers upon you, your use of "different" in conjunction with your denouncement of queerness is just your backhanded way of reinforcing the monopoly that has always suited you.
[/quote]

Calling the others in the S/S crowd craven? You're just a peacock trying to intimidate and I'm the last person it's ever going to work on you see, but nice try. Now I really appreciate your lectures on sociology but I've always recognized such thinking for what it is. Unearned privleges you say? Frankly, me and my family, my father and his father, earned what they have gotten. You are the one suffering from the hipster privledge mentality, not I.

[quote]
I will not treat anybody special because of whom or what they choose to sleep with. You're so helpful. ME devs have been insistently overvaluing straights while primarily exploiting F/F for the dudebros, and treating M/M as the worst thought to ever have is contemptible on BioWare's part. Your words pretty much summed up my take on that.
[/quote]

Overvaluing straights? No, the likes of David Gaider want to overvalue gays you see. Now Bioware should certainly put the  "dudebros" you look down upon in consideration before people like yourself who want everybody to be bisexual.

[quote]
[quote]Ah, we're a "small %." I refuted that part earlier...what you like to think of as a "small %" is actually more responsible for the changes to DA2 and ME3 than the BioWare devs you defend so much. Logic implies that the "small %" is much bigger and/or being heard. Either or both outcomes is anathema to your framing of us, so this doesn't speak well for BioWare's ability to continually patronize us as you'd like to think. Short answer- the ME devs realize which way the wind's blowing.[/quote][/quote]

The only reason DA2 went with the "everybody is bisexual" route is because of the likes of David Gaider who seems to share some of your inane views. Now ME3 is done by a different development team and most on these forums believe that Bioware can learn from their mistakes, including all of those made in DA2.


[quote]
I refuted your "small &" claim somewhere in this post...up above.

As for Gaider. Note that I've only ever said that DA2 team. Gaider, judging by the last time he and I traded blows, is
merely a liberal apologist.
[/quote]

You didn't refute anything I'm afraid. You just went off with your fringe "everybody is bisexual IRL too" theory. As per Gaider, he seems to be much like you but straight and not quite as arrogant. "The last time he and I traded blows"? My my, you hold yourself in quite high regard don't you.

[quote]
My. First you claimed ME3's devs caved to us queers out of money(true!), now you're careening toward the thought that it was the DA2 team who somehow twisted ME3's arms. Why, wat happened? I'm going to guess this: the idea that ME's devs going with the way the wind is blowing throughout institutions larger than BioWare is a truthful development you just can't stand. You accusing the DA2 team over this is like the conservatives ranting about "activist judges." Boxes them, isolates them. So much more platable for their homophobic efforts...rather than having to confront the "grim reality" that people in general are learning better.
[/quote]

Actually as far as I can recall, my opinion has been quite consistent on this matter. It's always been about the PC crowd and any extra sales would largely be due to the free press in rags like the Escapist and whatever you may read. The way the wind is blowing? Did you happen to just miss games like TW2 or pretty much every other title that came out in the last year that didn't cater to homosexuals? "Conservatives ranting about activist judges"? Well you certainly sound like a liberal so I'm going to guess you're one. Needless to say one doesn't need to look very far to see that people are not "learning better". But I suppose you think pointless sociology is more important than say competing with China on an international scale. Such "education" is one of the reasons why we are falling behind. I suppose we can thank views like yours for that.

[quote]
So you feel some compulsive need to "reaffirm" that you are heterosexual? Fixed. That goes for all the str8 gamers who opt into the M/F romances. Oh, and the original one about me also stands. Absolutely. Where straights are able to exercise theirs, I will also exercise mine.
[/quote]

If I had a nickle for every time one of you loons "fixed" my writing and thought you were clever for it, I would be a rich man by now. Oh and you should really learn to stop projecting, because the majority just had an LI because they were there, not because they felt the need to "reaffirm" your sexuality like yourself.

[quote]
Oh, I've read the "resources better used elsewhere" argument before. Apparently ME2's M/F thingies weren't much good, lest you think that the "hetero default" of yours is so secure. Re-allocate those too! When it comes to the S/S resources specifically, I'm going to...suggest...they do what they did in DA2. Those romances were functionally identical for male and female sexes, aside for that misguided whitewashing that occurs when female Hawkes question Anders about Karl. So then, what exactly is the problem? Two birds, one stone.
[/quote]

Not much I can respond to in this confused argument of yours. I don't think anybody was saying "ME2's M/F thingies weren't much good" whatever that means. What exactly is the problem with the DA2 solution you ask? Well #1, it was pushed by David Gaider, and more importantly at #2, most people didn't like it.

[quote]
Spoiled child...tsk. I'm so down. So down. So rotten! As it stands, I'm not one who ever subscribes to being "grateful for what I'm allowed." Putting a toe out of line is the least one can do when we detect there is something blatantly wrong, such as in the case of ME devs' persistent practice of homophobic tokenism.
[/quote]

My friend, I must say it's amuzing watching you trying to justify your sense of entitlement. Something was blatantly wrong? Actually no, nothing was wrong. Now maybe something was/is wrong in your own mind, but that doesn't make it so I'm afraid.

[quote]
I take it you've given up using race-issues to try derailing the importance of ME's queer visibility?
[/quote]

Actually it's your side of the argument that likes to resort to race-issues constantly. The "importance of ME's queer visibility"? I hate to tell you kid, but it isn't that important outside of your head.


[quote]
Of course I'm entitled. I'm entitled to being treated with equitable S/S options that make it easy for me to be a male Commander Shepard who romantically and passionately loves another man. You can do your little heterocentric thingie to tweak my sentiment just now, albeit you'll be using str8 pronouns to demonstrate your own entitlement along similar lines.
[/quote]

Actually you are entitled to nothing, other than getting the product for which you paid money for. Simple really. And your idea of "equitable S/S options" is the ability to bang anyone you so choose regardless of gender, so there isn't much reasoning with that sort of thinking, besides just ignoring you. Oh and what is with your constant use of str8? Am I supposed to start typing gh3y everywhere?

[quote]
Mmmm. So when you dismiss me for pointing out that one particular sexuality is dominating the other(s) in ME1 and ME2 so far, your automatic response is to critique me for not closing my own eyes and ears to the blatant issue at hand, while you simultaneously dismiss any means of redress out of convenience for your own priorities. Remember now, I'm not like you. I can already live quite well with the DA2 model. Among serious LIs, it couldn't have been more 50/50. The other 50/50 idea is not something I'm particularly keen on BioWare trying, all because their past "efforts" were cop-outs resulting in that roughly 99/1 split I've been mentioning. Not worth it. The DA2 method is the minimum standard, and realistically perhaps even the gold standard.
[/quote]

No I dismiss you for an opinion that can be regarded as little more than crazy. The fact is that one sexuality "dominates" the other in real life because that sexuality is the biological norm and the vast majority of the human population. What do you expect? Only in your head was the DA2 method the "minimum standard" and there are countless people who would have rather had something like DA:O. Also there was no 99/1 split you are talking about.

[quote]
Actually, DAO was crap. The convos, romance or otherwise, were a horror in the programming department. Mis-fires, no-fires, inexplicable timing, etc. Plus, as I've mentioned, the homophobic tokenism of bisexual characters then was unacceptable. I'm glad some people were able to have meaningful relationships with them, while at the same time, they should've been given all the options.
[/quote]

Are you trolling, or are you for real? DA:O was superior in most aspects and the fact that you thought Zevran was "homopobic tokenism of bisexual characters" (aka more SOC101 BS) does not make it so. Just as in real life you have to realize some people won't sleep with you due to gender, you should be capable of accepting that in a video game.

[quote]
Yes, mainstream heterosexist America. Hmmmm. To clarify, all the trappings we're used to...and which ME devs played into regarding their practice of homophobic exclusion towards queer males...are mainstream in that every person is affected by America's recognizable elements yet they also offer more to examine instead of swallowing things the way we're told they are. From there, who benefits in the spectrum of diverse sexualities? Only those who are highest or higher in the monopoly that American culture has arranged, and which ME plays into. People who are straight or who perform the stereotypes of straightness for their sex.
[/quote]

More of the same I see, this is getting awfully repetitive. But generally this society which you hate so much exists for a reason, it works, and you can "offer more" but most people with a brain in their heads aren't going to buy it. Whining about stereotypes constantly won't change this I'm afraid.

[quote]
Oh, but they should. But actually they were both bisexual to begin with. Even without that Kinsey-esque argument I made earlier. Because from my memory, Kaidan and Ashley were never like you in this issue.
[/quote]

Actually, as you're are so fond of saying "I've refutted this argument earlier." The claim that Kaidan and or Ashley were to be bisexual exists due to some dialouge in the game files. Dialogue which was recorded because both Shepards recorded all of the dialogue for Shepard, including stuff that simply did not make sense depending on gender. Modders swapped the models and then people like you did the rest by clinging to the myth that these bisexual romances were once in the game then cut.

[quote]
Ah...regarding your comments about Vega...DADT is guaranteed to be on the way out. I know in your...heart...the fact that its heart still beats on paper is the bright spot for you, but that's thankfully ending for multitudes of queer servicemembers and their friends and families. Given how the Systems Alliance militaries resemble Americans, and given the timing of Hudson skating in like a hero only after DADT was sent to repeal, James and Kaidan and Ashley all look to be primed for S/S passion.
[/quote]

We've discussed this in the PM argument we had earlier, but this James Vega should be expected to follow military standards in which such an action would be completely unacceptable even with DADT repealed. Also the military is a self-correcting stucture, people who "define themselves" as flaming homosexuals wouldn't last very long and would soon violate a ton of regulations. There is also a ****storm coming in the future, and the politically correct crowd won't come out of it in good condition. The pendulum always swings back and when it does this time it's going to be messy.

[quote]
If all the LIs are functionally bisexual, it'll be so better. Much better.
[/quote]

Actually no. Only in your head is this better. Also, congratulations, you've gotten me to write the longest response I've ever written here. And guess what? You still haven't changed the opinion of myself or anybody else. We internet crusaders sure are important... yep...

Modifié par ReconTeam, 20 juillet 2011 - 06:45 .

[Ziggy]

My_Decemberling wrote...

Wait...Wait... I think I just saw the impossible. Four people on BSN actually had a debate with each other and ended it respectfully without divulging into personal insults?... I never thought I'd see the day... I'm so - I'm so happy

btw, I don't get why this picture is often used to express happiness?
In the movie she's just learned her brother died if I recall correctly.

[shepskisaac]

Recon. For the love of God that skyscraper of text xDDDDD

Not even gonna attempt. Better to focus on bisexual Kaidan

[Ghost Lightning]

IsaacShep wrote...

Recon. For the love of God that skyscraper of text xDDDDD

Not even gonna attempt. Better to focus on bisexual Kaidan

this

[Eternal Dust]

Looks like someone picked the wrong place to post their thesis

[Inquisitor Recon]

IsaacShep wrote...
Recon. For the love of God that skyscraper of text xDDDDD
Not even gonna attempt.

Impressive isn't it? So much text in a single post that it is a crime against both God and man. A monument to all of our sins!

Don't bother. It's just me and Eromenos arguing for the rest of our natural lives (and possibly in hell after that) because we're both too stubborn to ever agree to disagree and both lack the common sense to withdraw from the argument in order to do important things.

Modifié par ReconTeam, 20 juillet 2011 - 06:51 .

[GodWood]

IsaacShep wrote...

GodWood wrote...
Just accept that Kaidan's not interested and move on.

Listen to what he has to say on Horizon, read this post, accept he's interested and will be available to romance in ME3 and move on.

I know what he says, I save him in my canon.
He's just being bromotional is all.

[Eromenos]

Blacklash93 wrote...

Eromenos wrote...
Indeed, BioWare does owe us.

Recon is right. Bioware does not owe us anything. No one, and I mean no one, is entitled to content.

Bioware was not intentionally trying to oppress or discriminate against anyone. They do what they must in regard to time constraints and development resources. To claim you have more right to those resources than anyone else is just ignorant. You should consider us lucky that Bioware even considered us in the development of ME1 and 2 at any point in time as most companies aren't even that considerate.

Whether you like it or not, the majority is always catered to first. Sure, we get the short end of the stick sometimes because of it, but that's life. Just be grateful we're getting what we are now.

Yes, Bioware said some stupid and hypocritical things over the years, but can't you forgive them for that? They're doing more than makng amends with words, they're giving us what we wanted all along.

Don't go around pointing fingers and blame when the simple fact is that the world just does not revolve around your life and whims.

Actually, we're all entitled, and specifically to LI content. We're all entitled to non-exploitative S/S content. BioWare played with both of these in overlapping fashion that proved entirely offensive and cavalier toward everybody's intelligence regarding queer gamers. BioWare screwed up twice with ME, to say the least. So they owe us all. Queer gamers more so than straights. DA2's team was big enough to realize it. ME's team should at least match their quality, because I'm not above accepting that delayed equal-treatment. But it hasn't actually happened, has it?

Discriminate...you probably know my feelings about that tepid word by now. Anyway, the ME devs knew what they were doing when they kept bowing to homophobia. Don't play the white-knight for them. Queer gamers have been around these parts since before ME1 came into being. The devs chose to not only ignore us, they chose to let homophobic trolls be their excuse(even now) for censoring our threads, and they chose to go forth with cop-out F/F in their products at our expense for the dudebros' pleasure. So yeah, they were actively "discriminating" via homophobia. But to hear it from you it's just, "poor BioWare. Poor things. They gots to pay the rent, too." No. They profited by in effect willfully sidelining queer people they always knew were here, and by exploiting female queers.

Be grateful? I don't think so. This attitude of yours that says  we risk "asking too much" sounds like so much defeatist cop-out on its own. I know there are people "grateful still" for their dudebro-oriented F/F as if such tokenism equated social outreach on BioWare's part. No thanks, I'd rather not play dumb.

I may "forgive" only if they can prove to consistently refrain from falling back onto old-patterns. The ME team is long, far, behind the DA2 team so I'm a lot less trusting of anything that comes from these devs, especially Hudson. No doubt there will be S/S for males at last, but will it be to the degree that it should be? There's a good chance that the M/M tweet doesn't actually extend to Kaidan. ME3 hasn't shipped, so they've yet to prove anything. Most important of all, I see nothing wrong in going over their past BS before this thing goes to retail. In fact more people should too, instead of rolling over and making nice as if their "good patrons have finally woken up" or something.

"does not revolve around [my] life and whims." I suggest you rethink that. The world actually doesn't revolve around contemporary industrial heteronormative straight culture's life or whims. It doesn't work. Microsocially-speaking it works for very few. On a vast global cultural-scale for the, ah, "majority" you speak of? Dream on.

Pointing fingers? Labeling fault. Far too soon to whitewash BioWare's crap away.

Modifié par Eromenos, 20 juillet 2011 - 07:03 .