[quote]ReconTeam wrote...
No they don't owe you anything. It's not that hard of a concept to understand. You can whine and complain about them all you want but they don't owe you anything. End of story. They made an effort to pander to you but instead of being grateful you whine even more? You think you deserve sympathy and whatever you demand? Get over yourself? You know, sometimes I am a bit heavy-handed in my discussions with others in the S/S crowd. Some of them simply want something and request it, and I'm opposed to it for many reasons I've gone over elsewhere. Yet you're exactly the type of ungrateful and over-entitled fanboy that yells the loudest.
[/quote]
I should be "grateful" for...what? I'm still drawing a blank on this imagined content made-for-queers that you think is worth being grateful for. Regardless of what you come up with, I feel no need to be "grateful" for anything if its primary purpose is to help a homophobic person and/or entity feel better about maintaining tokenism against queerness.
Please, whitewashing their past and calling them Big Damn Heroes is just an easy way to let these established cavalier ME devs become lazy with our depictions again in the future. JE and DA2 were the
only examples for which they demonstrated progress over recent predecessors during their time. KOTOR, DAO, ME1, ME2, all were insults to queer gamers.
Ah, here we go.
You know, sometimes I am a bit heavy-handed in my discussions with others in the S/S crowd. Some of them simply want something and request it, and I'm opposed to it for many reasons I've gone over elsewhere. Yet you're exactly the type of ungrateful and over-entitled fanboy that yells the loudest. This your way of saving face in our arguments now? I see. With "rampant bisexuality" most likely being implemented for ME3, you've gravitated to praising the nice queers who ask for little. You're only falling back to them at this point so you can try maintaining the illusion that BioWare are big patrons who only act on their own whims. No real pressure from queers can effect them, hmmm? Seems to me like you're still trying to divert focus from the fact that there are
many queer gamers around rather than just the tame ones you prefer. Also the queer changes in establishments larger than BioWare. Namely the real-life American military you're so fond of. You and I actually talk about that farther on down.
[quote]
Shareholders and investers aren't going to give a damn if you go about complaining that Bioware hasn't done enough for you. It's the bottom line they care about and you aren't going to have any noticeable impact on that. Greater and great quantitites of vocal queers? Here is a hint for you, nobody cares outside of the cult of the politically correct. You got a gay option in DA:O and rather than being grateful for what some would say is an "act of kindness" you still suffer from a persecution complex because you can't sleep with whomever you want? You aren't going to earn any sympathy.
[/quote]
No kidding? Their bottom line has grown closely associated with how they're to be seen by the queer community at large, presently and for the future. That's the only reason why they're implementing M/M now. Money. They have to. Though to listen to the way you try framing it, it's as if BioWare's devolved into charity for my kind. Actually, it's much worse than that.
Well, do keep drumming on about Big BioWare's merciful outreach.
[quote]
What are you talking about boy? You're clearly so detached from reality, I don't think I'd make sense to you unless I agreed with everything you said.
[/quote]
*shrug* Your own words were that I'm no more special than anybody else. Granted, it was your way of attempting to isolate me as some queer upstart who knows nobody and whom nobody knows. Even so, on-the-surface your words convey the idea that I'm harmless and ineffectual with my ideas. Therefore, I marvel at your revulsion against the thought of seeing many queers like me or unlike me in space. Many to be packed inside Normandy. Why not? Aren't you the one who claimed to feel safe around such nice weak queers?
[quote]
Yes I feel wronged, and I have a valid reasons to do so. You however feel wronged because Bioware isn't pandering enough to you and you lack the ability to sleep with whomever you choose regardless of gender. You've actually stated that you think Bioware owes you.
[/quote]
All true, and because of that I
don't feel this "shame" thingie you keep wanting me to try on. It's not for me to wear. It's for BioWare.
[quote]
I don't buy into fringe sociology nonsense paraded by very political college professers who couldn't teach something useful you see. But it's good for them if they can make some money off you I suppose.
[/quote]
It's more queer theory and feminism at my college. You were the one who brought up sociology to back yourself up first, IIRC. Only now it doesn't suit you. Ohhh, I can't wait to read your take on those two disciplines I mentioned. Heteropatriarchy, though. That was the term.
[quote]
Oh yes... the big bad white straight males out to get you. I don't know when discrimination crossed into "not getting what I want" but clearly for you it has. Now maybe you're under the impression that you represent 50% of the population. maybe you're under the impression that your sexuality is far more important than it actually is. Regardless, you are on equal political standing and treated the same under the law at least here in the United States. Imbalance? Many cultures believe homosexuality to be an immoral act, you represent quite a small % of the population and most straight people simply don't care your gay, they just don't want to hear about it. With that in consideration you are quite well represented in the media. Nobody knows your sexual interests unless you go shouting it out to people, why the hell is it so important to you that people know? Do you expect them to care?
[/quote]
Equal political standing and treated the same under the law at least here in the United States. Since...when? Institutionalized federal homophobia is still on the books in the form of DOMA, and DADT is still only on its way out. We have states like Virginia that go so far as to ban any legal contracts that would offer even the semblance of marriage or benefits of marriage if it's between people of the same-sex. The 1,100 federal statutes, financial benefits, and legal protections that are given to all str8 married-couples in America are all withheld from same-sex married couples. Want to talk justice? Contrasts cases like Britney Spears being able to marry as opposed to someone like Neil Patrick Harris.
No doubt your intent was to segue this into a spiel about everybody still being held to the same laws. Of course, nevermind that most of them are slanted towards favoring homophobic heteronormativity. I'd rather be wrong about you in this case, but part of me thinks you'd like to say that queer people can still marry opposite-sex people just like your straights do?
Many other cultures do not believe homosexuality is an immoral act. Regardless whether or not this country does, it is still
not an immoral act and I couldn't care less about the feelings of those proclaiming otherwise.
[quote]
Of course I presume people are heterosexual unless I have reason to believe otherwise. I have never had to ask somebody if they were gay nor felt the need to. You'll find that most people do that. If it offends you, that's too bad. Now yet again you have failed to answer my question. Why do you think you need the capability to "define" yourself in ME? The answer remains the same. You don't need it, you just want it.
[/quote]
Actually, it is you who made the leap to thinking that presumptions about other people's sexuality must involve direct questions out of the blue. You. Not I.
Regarding your question, I did answer it and I'll repeat again:
In ME as in life, people determine their sexualities. Someone who pursues an opposite-sex relationship or coupling is performing heterosexuality. Someone who pursues a same-sex relationship or coupling is performing homosexuality. And, those who can manage both to some degree are performing bisexuality. So you're still playing dense when faced with language that casts heteros as being no more special than queers? I can still help you. I reaffirm my homosexuality for the same reasons as you or any other str8 might feel the need to reaffirm your own str8ness. Oh, yes. There's no default for you to hold to. You're always proving it, which straights are given leeway to do even more so than queers. Witness the two media examples I contrasted, 300 and ME. For male protagonists, constant stroking and even pressure to "be str8." To you as always, just "normal." Until each time I frame it in appropriate context.
[quote]
But you aren't owed anything, understand? Like it or not the game cannot provide options for whatever one might like to try to do as Shepard, so why are you thinking otherwise?
[/quote]
Afraid you're wrong again. They owe straight gamers full treatment. They owe queer gamers full treatment. Yet BioWare saw fit to only extend full treatment over to straights at the expense of queers in ME. All the token F/F titillation never counted because not one bit of it was designed for queer females. They were only allowed to come for the ride that was tailored for dudebros. Queer people aren't stupid. Your belief is that they'd do just fine with F/F that someone like you can tolerate.
Not too many, keep'em on the sidelines, Captain Kirk aliens and secretaries, yayuh.BioWare is uncomfortably aware of it. As I've said and as you've reluctantly alluded to, the ME devs know they can't sustain their own exlusive fantasy(just look at some of them) while hoping to remain competitive with that homophobic formula. They owe us more and better since their gamers tire of their BS. What you cling to portraying as the vocal, small, minority.
[quote]
The fact of the matter is that you SHOULD be grateful as some of you are for the options Bioware gave you in ME3. But you however... you think they OWE you such options, you think you should be able to sleep with whomever you want regardless of gender. Bioware's homophobia? Are you being serious right now, because this is one of the most insane things I've ever heard somebody convince themselves of. For whatever reasons, they did something nice for you and gave you an option in DA:O and you still accuse them of homophobia? This is fanaticism, pure and simple. You've had more success bashing your detractors failings? It'll be a cold day in hell before you ever convince me of anything with such baseless claims. Forget the rest of the S/S crowd, it is you, and people with similar views to your own who are the problem here. You're the reason your group doesn't deserve to be pandered to.
[/quote]
I think not. ME has done zero that any queer gamer should feel grateful about, including the genuine queer female gamers. Even for those who could glean meaningful relationships, ME treated always them as secondary while pandering to their own dudebros. Queer females may have found things to like, but they too have zero to be grateful for. BioWare remains at fault for not only excluding M/M on purpose out of homophobia, but also for being patronizing towards F/F as well. Spell it out again, just what exactly is there to be grateful about?
Rofl. Now we get to it. Normally my tamer fellow queers are the ones who admonish me against "provoking" BioWare. Because unlike me, they think they need to be grateful for scraps. Just like you do. So I'll tell you what I tell them: why so concerned? Calling me a fanatical-nobody using one side of your mouth, yet still trying to shush me by using your other side. The discrepancy in your case is that everything I say hits a nerve. Calling me a crazy is just your tired method of trying to downplay my criticisms. When it comes to "default," that's the only one you have.
I'm not here to "convince you" of anything. We've both said there's no middle-ground for people like us.
[quote]
White knight? I've always been honest with my opinion of Bioware and it isn't always kind. Cavalier exploitation of homophobic politics? This is nonsense. You're are seeing things that don't exist. And if you sleep better pretending your entire team is a bunch of closet bisexuals, it is not my, nor Bioware's responsibility to help you sleep.
[/quote]
Yes, it's clear you're "not kind" to BioWare everytime they cave to queer demands. As for you acting like their white knight, you're taking up some cause in which you project yourself as standing up for hetero solidarity on their behalf. They're a symbolic establishment under attack in your eyes. Pity that.
You're are seeing things that don't exist. Translation: "Invisible, so they don't count, children. They're just
imagined. A movie is just a movie. A game is just a game." Untrue, as demonstrated by the proprietary energy you exert over the politics of said game.
Certainly it's not your responsibility to help me sleep. Why would I expect it from you? What are we to each other, again? However, the responsibility for imparting dignity is in fact BioWare's burden to take on. ME3 devs' "change of heart" proves it. They won't cop to it, but they still have to cave to it. The former is preferrable, but I'll certainly accept the latter. M/M being forced upon your ME is what I'd call proof positive. Think of it this way; I won't lose sleep just because you'll lose sleep.
As for..."pretending" the entire team is a bunch of closet bisexuals? They already happen to be. They don't share your attitude.
[quote]
So you are incapable of roleplaying as a different person and are incapable of roleplaying as yourself without being a flaming homosexual? Well that sounds more like your problem than my own. Straightness well over it's due? My my, you have quite the high opinion of homosexuals. Tell me how much of the population do you think is gay?
[/quote]
Ohhh, you know queer people
so well.
First, there is nothing wrong with any person just because he or she might be a flamer. The only thing wrong is someone like you thinking to get away with dumping on a person specifically just for being a flamer. Flamers are braver than you are, I say.
Second, queer Shepard will be exactly like str8 Shepard. Contrary to your efforts to tokenize and distance us with limited gay stereotypes that are treated negatively by mainstream America, masculine gay soldiers, feminine gay soldiers, masculine lesbian soldiers, and feminine lesbian soldiers all execute their duties as well if not better than everyone else. In your homophobic belief-system of course, us queers can only ever be the hated stereotypes you cling to.
I already dealt with your second question elsewhere in the response. But I'll add more elements to it. How much of the population do you think is queer and/or queer-friendly? Notice the difference between your framing and mine. Your choice of specific "gay" is no coincidence, because you'd like everyone to think that gay males are the only ones who would welcome the addition. Whereas, my choice of queer and its allies invites a broader spectrum that encompasses even more people who add to the numbers of gay male gamers who stand to benefit from ME3's M/M.
[quote]
I love how people can see whatever they are looking for in a movie like this. Of course that doesn't make it true, but it's a fascinating behavior, don't you think? As far as I'm concerned 300 was just an over the top action movie. Now I'm sure ameatur psychologists can find all sorts of hidden messages in a film like this, just as political bloggers can find all sorts of political messages. But how many of them are true? Ask the director. The fact that you even consider "distancing" to be homophobia only shows your warped standards here. If your looking for "homosexual male couplings" go look up some porn. Why should anybody appeal to your sexual interests if they don't want to?
[/quote]
Ask the director. In other words, zero culpability for someone who abused racist, homophobic, and misogynistic cultural whitewashing
and appropriation. Your response is a standard cop-out. This is what I'm used to facing down- "
A movie is just a movie. A game is just a game. Stop reading so much into it." Incorrect. Directing me to "ask" the person or people responsible equates to you dismissing me to waiti on their leisure just to reassure your thought that culpable people are still my betters. False. Your cavalier shrug of the shoulders and whining against someone like me harshing your buzz from entertainment is just you making excuses for media that segregates and tokenizes people out of hatred and cowardice.
Case in point the analogy between your proposed cop-out and those people responsible at BioWare. In all the years that ME has been active, there's been but one tweet alluding to incoming M/M, compared to the criticisms heaped upon their practice of exclusion and cowardice from owning up to their BS.
Porn? I suggest you reexamine the physical portrayals of Miranda, Samara, and Jack in ME2.
[quote]
Your thinking is exactly why I think most sociology courses are dead ends that exist only to employ professors. One can argue anything is a social construct. Regardless, these exist for a reason and aren't going to go away because you think your idea for society is better. Well it doesn't work that way, as you'll someday find out. "Norm privilege behind the exclusive label is arbitrary and mandated by hypocrites?" I'm sorry that you bought into everything your professor was feeding you but this is a load of nonsense. I hope you didn't get your degree in it.
[/quote]
'Tis because anything that can move into abstract is a social construct. Your "Mythical Norm" is easily expunged just by contrasting the nuclear American "family-unit" with ongoing human history that dwarfs this country's length of existence.
I have no interest in pursuing SOC as a career. It has its uses, but it's also much too tame for me.
To reiterate the quote you selected, I only paraphrased my lessons. The teacher disliked using "hypocrite" because he was a hands-off lecturer who tried to touch upon politics while advocating neutrality in some pure, vacuum, academic, and impartial exercise. Pass. But I didn't need him to spell it out. The gift of being ableto read between the lines is actually something you hunt down and hone, I assure you. Part of me is sorry that you didn't, but not that much.
[quote]
I hate to tell you but that is more SOC101 crap that is detached from reality. I don't know where you're from but I've lived in the United States my entire life, in quite a liberal state, and this is nonsense. Even here you would probably get your ass kicked by implying that having respect for a fellow man means you have a sexual attraction to him. Socialized confinements in their gender roles? Well you must either think all of the women here in the United States are in the kitchen making sandwiches (hint: they're not) or this is more unsubstantiated modern sociology nonsense designed to employ college professors.
[/quote]
Quite so, everything is socially constructed. I'm not sure if you're saying that's crap because it's 101 or because it's this newfangled SOC that doesn't agree with the brand you supposedly took. I'm guessing the latter. Too bad.
I also live in a "liberal state." But unlike you, I know from customary observation that it is in fact women still being relegated to housework by a slanted majority. In a blue-state. Your cavalier reference to homophobic-bashing is hardly new to me. So, what was the point of this diversion? Ah, the centerpiece was the bullying-reminder of continual homophobic bashing in more liberal areas of the U.S. How interesting. Earlier you tried to claim that queers and straights are treated equally in this country. Well, again that's false. But also, you must believe I'm like the image of most queer people you think of? Like I can't KO a man or several men just because I'm queer? Or, in spite of what you know of me, you assume this princess must be too arrogant to expect or suvive potential fights while out and about in straighter areas of town. You're free to hope for that. Think, now. I've experienced other men who've attacked me just because I'm breathing as a gay man. I also know men who are straight yet were flattered and kept me as friends in their hearts, and vice-versa. Plus all the ones in between. Therefore no, I'm not fazed by your efforts to try bottling me into a frightful queer who "needs" straight pity.
[quote]
I know you believe that, but it isn't true. Which is a damn shame considering how dedicated you are to the idea, but again that isn't my problem. But I really adore your attempts to classify my thinking or convince me I'm in the closet. Now I happen to feel no responsibility if you end up crying yourself to sleep that a virtual LI didn't want to sleep with you because of your gender. I take no responsibility for anything you're going to end up doing in the real world, even if you slice "ReconTeam" into the corpse of somebody you murdered.
[/quote]
What does this have to do with
your sexuality? I couldn't care less what you do with yours, except whenever you try to exert it against the best interests of mine.
Right, the emo-jab. Of course, whatever you say. TBH, it's actually more gratifying for me to openly critique other people's emotional investment into toys. As in, the mere act of deconstructing ME in conjunction with the BS of heteropatriarchy is enough to gall someone who rushes to defend both of them. Case in point. This is me having a blast because your big business idol ME franchise has to force itself to cave to M/M against its will in order to cope with the future.
Really. Between us, you being forced to stomach knowledge that M/M is part of the overtly American military in ME is enough to make my day.
[quote]
As a whole I have no doubt that I know my history better than you know yours, although I have not obsessively studied homosexuality as you have. Needless to say, the way the Greeks slept with boys and other men doesn't prove most of them weren't heterosexual. Nor do I think that this is respectable behavior.
[/quote]
Clearly your grasp for history is spotty if the most you can do is bull-rush through a few short phrases in hopes that I won't bring up the lifelong relationships some of these males kept with each other.
It proves most of them were functionally bisexual. No homophobic strictures against M/M as we know them today. Ruh-roh. No doubt there were lots who were unfairly pressed into it despite not having erotic or romantic attraction to other males, but they were the minority. Y'know, those rare 100% heteros I mentioned. Definitely not right that they were scorned, but what existed is a historical counter to your homophobic(and biphobic) version of the 99/1 split.
The Greeks. The Native Americans. The Persians. The Romans. The Chinese. Far-reaching empires and civilizations that were diverse even within themselves. Their hetero activities you alluded to were political duties as often as not. In general, breeding has always been more about function over form. Also, reference and contrast the nuclear American family-unit again.
[quote]
Saying "homophobic ME2 team" basically renders any of your so called arguments invalid as far as I'm concerned. I'd imagine this is like what dealing with an indoctrinated person is like before they turn into a husk and try to kill you.
[/quote]
Oh? What was it about them that suggests they weren't homophobic, from your perspective?
[quote]
Queer gamers this, queer gamers that. Here is a hint for you, you aren't half as important as you think you are and the sooner you realize that the sooner we'll all be better off. Only a handful of others in your group seem to suffer from this persecution complex of yours. No I'm not talking down to homosexuals, I am talking down to
you and you only. Here you are? And who are you exactly? Some righteous internet crusader with an agenda to push? You aren't owed anything you aren't important because of your fringe radical thinking when it comes to sociology. Now I am as equally proud and equally stubborn as yourself, yet at least I recognize I am just $60 to Bioware and don't delude myself into thinking they owe me anything.
[/quote]
Excuse me, but I've never once needed anyone else to reaffirm me around here. I always expect to go uphill, as a queer person, and a proudly radical oddball at that. The reason I'm belligerent is because most of them here are too tame to say that which needs saying. Knowing such, I'm surprised you believed I would feel any shame or dejection from your efforts to isolate me. Is that supposed to be news? Also doesn't change the fact there are many other queer and queer-friendly straight gamers who BioWare has to be wary of for their future. Other types of media and institutions are caving to our ****** agenda. I'm still hitting at the same goal as most other queer gamers, albeit from my own angle. You are free, of course, to try and derail by making this about me. Again, here I am. Not hiding anything, and it's interesting to see you trying to turn towards the "nice queers" to help you now. Who knows!
[quote]
Calling the others in the S/S crowd craven? You're just a peacock trying to intimidate and I'm the last person it's ever going to work on you see, but nice try. Now I really appreciate your lectures on sociology but I've always recognized such thinking for what it is. Unearned privleges you say? Frankly, me and my family, my father and his father, earned what they have gotten. You are the one suffering from the hipster privledge mentality, not I.
[/quote]
Intimidate...what do I need from you, honestly? What use of
you, particularly? Honestly.
Craven, tame, apologists, sadly all of them with major internalized inferiority. Some of them act on it less, but not many. One of their benefits is that ME3 devs can use them to try saving face as you just tried to. The other one is the fact that their numbers did help bring this situation about.
Oh, yes. As a straight person in America your unearned privileges allow you to go about without having to worry about being attacked/murdered/branded/maimed/vandalized/kicked/spat/taunted/burned/fired/chased/stabbed/
cut/bashed/intimidated/robbed
just for being straight. To name but a few. You didn't earn the protections you take for granted. Neither did anyone else in your apparently all-male line.
[quote]
Overvaluing straights? No, the likes of David Gaider want to overvalue gays you see. Now Bioware should certainly put the "dudebros" you look down upon in consideration before people like yourself who want everybody to be bisexual.
[/quote]
Is this your way of extolling the merits of giving dudebros what they want but short of copping to being one yourself? I haven't hidden myself, so why have you?
[quote]
[quote]The only reason DA2 went with the "everybody is bisexual" route is because of the likes of David Gaider who seems to share some of your inane views. Now ME3 is done by a different development team and most on these forums believe that Bioware can learn from their mistakes, including all of those made in DA2.[/quote]
[/quote]
At most you're only half-right. The ME devs were too idiotic to do it themselves until their counterparts at DA2 demonstrated how to do it, namely because the DA2 team did take it upon themselves to try respecting queer gamers. The quality showed. Either way, the homophobic ME devs would've certainly remained unmoved were it not for the fact that DADT is dying and other media institutions are also way ahead of them. People who are used to seeing at the very least tokenized queer males in TV and movies (plus knowing queer people IRL) do take exception with ME for not depicting even a stereotypical gay male. Absence of M/M is a glaring holdout on the ME devs' part, which they had to address. We can't know for sure yet, but I'd
like to think they followed their DA2 counterparts' example. Seeing as how ME team is clearly incapable of managing this for themselves.
[quote]
You didn't refute anything I'm afraid. You just went off with your fringe "everybody is bisexual IRL too" theory. As per Gaider, he seems to be much like you but straight and not quite as arrogant. "The last time he and I traded blows"? My my, you hold yourself in quite high regard don't you.
[/quote]
I have no idea what specific thing you're referring to now, so it's no longer my concern. But your efforts to twist my words are a different matter. "Everybody is bisexual IRL?" Very catchy, very accusatory against me. Not my words, but hey, you're quite welcome to go along this route. My recent writing to the absolute contrary still stands. If you can get others to denounce me alongside you over a trumped-up assertion, then they're worth as much bother to me as your trollish efforts to play dumb.
He's actually the peacock-label you gambled on earlier. Knowing what he is, why shouldn't I feel gratified about the reaction I provoked? A hasty thread-lock from him because I was hitting all his arrogant mistakes instead of subscribing to his fanbase. There's little doubt in my mind that the core of DA2 resulted not because of him, but because of Hepler and Kristjanson.
[quote]
Actually as far as I can recall, my opinion has been quite consistent on this matter. It's always been about the PC crowd and any extra sales would largely be due to the free press in rags like the Escapist and whatever you may read. The way the wind is blowing? Did you happen to just miss games like TW2 or pretty much every other title that came out in the last year that didn't cater to homosexuals? "Conservatives ranting about activist judges"? Well you certainly sound like a liberal so I'm going to guess you're one. Needless to say one doesn't need to look very far to see that people are not "learning better". But I suppose you think pointless sociology is more important than say competing with China on an international scale. Such "education" is one of the reasons why we are falling behind. I suppose we can thank views like yours for that.
[/quote]
You haven't been consistent, aside for denouncing S/S at all costs. First SOC was a friend for your arguments, until clearly it could not be your friend. First a bunch of queers were responsible for swaying ME devs, but now it's just those "activist
writers" from DA2 who came over and messed up your patriarchal bastion series.
Yes, the "activist judges" homophobia is an apt parallel to your conjecture about the DA2 writers. Since they're just a few, they're visibly convenient scapegoats easier for you to demonize instead of a larger body of people. People who, test yourself now, also were the reason DA2 became what it was. And also the reason ME3 involves M/M.
Ah...no, I look down on liberals. I'll have you know I fancy myself quite far to the left of them.
If you feel like ME should serve as some tool for motivating "America's youth" to fight some cataclysmic war against China, be my guest. I couldn't care less about your own internet crusade, so you won't find me putting any thought into your issues.
[quote]
If I had a nickle for every time one of you loons "fixed" my writing and thought you were clever for it, I would be a rich man by now. Oh and you should really learn to stop projecting, because the majority just had an LI because they were there, not because they felt the need to "reaffirm" your sexuality like yourself.
[/quote]
So sue me for libel?
The "majority" just had their LIs because not only were they pushed upon everybody, we're also treated as a Bad Person if we reject them, although more so in cases with female LIs than the males. In my case, obviously better to be a Bad Person instead of feeling dirty. Dirtier.
The continuing theme is that ME1 and ME2 were purposefully exclusionary against M/M even as they performed obligatory pandering exclusively towards dudebros. By that even the male "options" in ME2 were slated more to placate dudebros than to be any genuine options meant to appeal for females. Only in that particular sense does your claim carry any truth to it. Female Shepards had male LIs in ME2 only because they were there.
ME1 and ME2 came packed with multitudes of ways for str8 dudebros to reaffirm their sexualities in a physical sense(as they're always catered to), without which they would have no method of proving themselves. Facts don't lie, sorry to say. Your acceptance of "norm" that involves having requisite females on-hand is precisely the invisible affirmation that allows dudebros to prove and establish what they are. It's taken for granted only when there isn't a person like me to kick it around in the open.
[quote]
Not much I can respond to in this confused argument of yours. I don't think anybody was saying "ME2's M/F thingies weren't much good" whatever that means. What exactly is the problem with the DA2 solution you ask? Well #1, it was pushed by David Gaider, and more importantly at #2, most people didn't like it.
[/quote]
*shrug* I shouldn't be surprised that you see my reference to "ME2's M/F thingies" as an easy way for you to play dumb for copping-out from this segment. As for me, I'll stick to that rather than dignify any "relationship" other gamers may or may not have had with those LIs.
Do you mean those vocal biphobic protestors who blame all of DA2's problems on the bisexual LIs? Mmmhmm, I dunno about you but the way DA2 turned out I get the feeling their devs knew from the start and didn't care. As for me, it's always nice to think about protestors choking on an all-bisexual LI situation.
I answered your contention regarding resources spent on same-sex LIs. DA2 did it right. Nothing on your part? Alright. Just a reminder: The LIs were functionally identical aside for a misguided incident of whitewashing between Anders and FHawke.
[quote]
My friend, I must say it's amuzing watching you trying to justify your sense of entitlement. Something was blatantly wrong? Actually no, nothing was wrong. Now maybe something was/is wrong in your own mind, but that doesn't make it so I'm afraid.
[/quote]
I think it might be my turn to collect for each time you default to using my "imagined" wrongs that are "only in my head." So knowing that you're still you is
handy.
March is a long ways-off, so I hope they use some of that time to refine the bisexual LIs in some
effort to at least live up to their DA2 counterparts.
[quote]
Actually it's your side of the argument that likes to resort to race-issues constantly. The "importance of ME's queer visibility"? I hate to tell you kid, but it isn't that important outside of your head.
[/quote]
Rofl. You were the one who resorted to race-issues against me here. I'll just add that as another one of the ploys that you tried, yet failed. It might help if you knew what you were talking about beforehand.
Ding! Another remark about what I see only existing in my head. Well also in digital writing too, fyi. And yeah...ME's absence of queer visibility in the face of its whitewashing lie about heteronormativity doesn't work. For you it works. But I'm not here to make you happy. ME devs might still be, but it seems now they're less free to do what they'd like.
[quote]
Actually you are entitled to nothing, other than getting the product for which you paid money for. Simple really. And your idea of "equitable S/S options" is the ability to bang anyone you so choose regardless of gender, so there isn't much reasoning with that sort of thinking, besides just ignoring you. Oh and what is with your constant use of str8? Am I supposed to start typing gh3y everywhere?
[/quote]
Indeed, I'm entitled to no less than everything a str8 gamer typically receives from BioWare. The queer gamers have been around for a long time and, judging by what we've seen and the developments that have slowly occurred, it's growing to include straight gamers who "get it."
Str8 gamers who don't, however, I couldn't care less about. Rage about having bisexuals "forced onto you." I'm just here for the space opera, powers, guns, and man-sex.
I use str8 to denote the homophobic segment of straight people. Typically, the ones responsible for giving you all a bad name.
[quote]
No I dismiss you for an opinion that can be regarded as little more than crazy. The fact is that one sexuality "dominates" the other in real life because that sexuality is the biological norm and the vast majority of the human population. What do you expect? Only in your head was the DA2 method the "minimum standard" and there are countless people who would have rather had something like DA:O. Also there was no 99/1 split you are talking about.
[/quote]
Biological norm, biological determinism, mmmm...nope. I already addressed such with my thoughts on social constructionism combined with the ancient histories I pointed out. Btw, we're also not the only mammals who do it. The things primates and dolphins get up to are capable of rivaling our couplings. More than 2s, let's just say. Penguins forming life-long S/S couples are another example. These are just for starters. In case you still only respond to biological counters.
Indeed, there was a 99/1 split in DAO. Two bisexual LIs who had no addition to the story, two female dwarves who end badly, and a handful of bisexual LIs at the irreputable brothel as opposed to...what...the entire rest of the game's cast of characters who are all presented in
reassuringly heteronormative security lest poor mainstream folk feel put upon. That being said, I'm grateful DA2 did what it could to correct its predecessor's failings.
[quote]
Are you trolling, or are you for real? DA:O was superior in most aspects and the fact that you thought Zevran was "homopobic tokenism of bisexual characters" (aka more SOC101 BS) does not make it so. Just as in real life you have to realize some people won't sleep with you due to gender, you should be capable of accepting that in a video game.
[/quote]
DAO was patronizing and moved at a snail's pace, combat or otherwise. Multitudes of npcs and creatures who felt asinine and poorly-acted. The codex was great, but that was the only thing it had over DA2. Everything else, including DAO's homophobic implementation of LIs, was in sad shape considering DAO had been in development since the days of KOTOR.
[quote]
More of the same I see, this is getting awfully repetitive. But generally this society which you hate so much exists for a reason, it works, and you can "offer more" but most people with a brain in their heads aren't going to buy it. Whining about stereotypes constantly won't change this I'm afraid.
[/quote]
It works? Really? For who? The top 1% who control 90% of America's wealth, certainly. Are you one? I know I'm not, so I have at least one reason for seeing through the BS of this system you overvalue. Something new I hope, since you felt dulled by what I've been saying. Add this one to the pile, but underneath homophobia.
[quote]
Actually, as you're are so fond of saying "I've refutted this argument earlier." The claim that Kaidan and or Ashley were to be bisexual exists due to some dialouge in the game files. Dialogue which was recorded because both Shepards recorded all of the dialogue for Shepard, including stuff that simply did not make sense depending on gender. Modders swapped the models and then people like you did the rest by clinging to the myth that these bisexual romances were once in the game then cut.
[/quote]
Really now, my claim that Kaidan and Ashley have always been bisexual comes
not only from the fact they have suppressed dialogue files, but
also because their "canon" content in no way shape or form precludes them from S/S the way you do. Yes, really. Both points about their handling in ME1(and ME2 by lesser extent) add up to their being 100% functionally bisexual. It's been past time.
[quote]
We've discussed this in the PM argument we had earlier, but this James Vega should be expected to follow military standards in which such an action would be completely unacceptable even with DADT repealed. Also the military is a self-correcting stucture, people who "define themselves" as flaming homosexuals wouldn't last very long and would soon violate a ton of regulations. There is also a ****storm coming in the future, and the politically correct crowd won't come out of it in good condition. The pendulum always swings back and when it does this time it's going to be messy.
[/quote]
Really? DADT is on its deathbed, and thus it will no longer be "illegal" for guys like Vega to broadcast their sexuality to the same degree hetero guys get to. Now, extend that thought to the Americanized human military in ME.
I'm not sure what it is you're fumbling for here...DADT is dead and dying, and so there's nothing keeping him from hitting on Commander John Shepard if he likes him. Ashley certainly went after her CO. Considering that ME3's LIs will be "reactive" to us, perhaps nobody will hit on Shepard, but in any case. Guys and girls alike in the Systems Alliance military will have demonstrably equal shots at the man who saved the Citadel. Realistically we knew they always could, regardless of the devs' passive-aggressive homophobic efforts to the contrary. It's just nice to know that M/M Shepard scenarios will be immortalized on the internet, for one thing.
Rofl. Flamers. Whatever you say, whatever you say. Have you seen the first episode of "One Man Army?"
There is also a ****storm coming in the future, and the politically correct crowd won't come out of it in good condition. The pendulum always swings back and when it does this time it's going to be messy. So you're borderline doomsaying at this point? Come, even you can be more constructive than that. I mean I see why you're pulling things out of your ass to support your own side over this issue...DADT is tangibly bleeding out...but a lot of nothing is still nothing.
[quote]
Actually no. Only in your head is this better. Also, congratulations, you've gotten me to write the longest response I've ever written here. And guess what? You still haven't changed the opinion of myself or anybody else. We internet crusaders sure are important... yep...
[/quote]
I wonder, at what point did you think I was searching for friends here?
Well certainly now there is little need to "change [your] opinion or anybody else's." ME3's already slated to include dreaded, icky, hot, musky, M/M. I continue to have doubts they'll match DA2's unexpected gift, but just knowing M/M is a tangible part of the ME-universe certainly does count the
tiniest bit in its favor.
Modifié par Eromenos, 21 juillet 2011 - 12:33 .
Ce sujet est fermé
Retour en haut
I did pic him in the end, but I never denied liking Liara. So I believe that it would not have been out of place for him somewhere at that point to divulge the information about being bi as well.
Who knows, maybe Shep is that "someone" for Kaiden.
She was secuded by Morinth and in her journal, it does seem like she was more concerned they're both girls than the fact Morinth was an alien.
