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Ashley/Kaidan are Bi? Yes please!


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#551
shepskisaac

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Quething wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...

Eromenos wrote...

Is she really, in SW canon? Lucas actually didn't stand in the way?

Not at all, there are even two gay Mandalorian dudes who adopted a Mandalorian ophraned girl. One of them is even Boba Fett's right hand.


Yeah, but you can only pull that off in the more hidden corners of the SWEU when Lucas isn't looking. "There's no gay in Star Wars" is still "official" policy as far as I'm aware, so if there's any in TOR, let's hope nobody reports it to him.

Also, this thread still hasn't been locked? Wonders never cease.

There isn't, it was just some stupid thing Sean Dahlberg (TOR Community Manager) said on TOR forums and then retracted and apologized for everything (including his obvious lack of knowledge on EU canon). People had a field day rubbing Juhani and Mandalorian gays into his face haha

Modifié par IsaacShep, 21 juillet 2011 - 12:33 .


#552
Inquisitor Recon

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Eromenos wrote...
Endless wall of rambling text.


For the love of God I do not have the time nor patience to sit through your bull**** sociology theories and over-entitled rantings. Now, I don't know why the hell you bought into all of this garbage. Maybe it suits your personality so you desperately want it to all be true, maybe you're some angst filled teenager who think's he has the perfect ideas for society. Well guess what? You don't. Nobody is going to be able to reason you out of crackpot theories that have the same credibility as those who deny the moon landings to this day. You'll have to deal with this persecution complex on your own terms. If you can't you'll be whining about a "heteropatriachal" society keeping you down for the rest of your life, and people will ignore you for being a fringe ideologue. Maybe you should see a therapist about this, but considering that you seem even more paranoid than myself I suppose you'd run off shouting about he or she is a "heterocentric" bigot somehow. Either way real life will knock some sense into you sooner or later.

The reality is that you should be grateful, damned grateful I might add. For reasons likely relating to political correctness run-amok, they gave you a homosexual romance option in DA:O and you ought to thank them for this kindness. Because despite what you think, they don't owe you anything. Then ideologues like David Gaider push this "everybody is bisexual" DA2 garbage and now you think you're entitled to it. Once again, you are not. The fact that you think the ME1/2 teams are bigots for not catering to you is simply false. It comes down to your group making a request and the decision of how to respond falling on them. Nowhere are you entitled to anything.

I'm amuzed that you're so deluded you would argue that DA2 was the better game. The writing was worse, the characters were worse with some exception, the visual style was worse, it clearly lacked polish, and I could go on like this for a long time. Better yet, go to the DA2 forum and see why the critics there don't like it.  Needless to say DA2 isn't the standard for anything, especially romances. The fact that you thought that Zevran was a "token bisexual" isn't my concern nor Biowares.

I didn't bother reading your essay there, but I saw you mentioned DADT again. Don't try to lecture me about that. What this James Vega would be doing would be violating countless standards of conduct even with DADT repealed. The romance with Ashley in ME1 also violated plenty of regulations, yet not to the same extent. Why? Because of a military culture you wouldn't understand nor care to. In fact I am almost certain that you lothe the fact that it defies your "vision." If you want to continue our PM discussion about this topic, feel free to, but you are in the wrong there just as you are in the wrong here.

Now if you have anything to say that isn't backed by crackpot sociology theories and your perfect vision for the society you want, please try to summarize it. Because I am not in the mood to read a bunch of hot air and chest beating by some over-entitled fanboy.

Modifié par ReconTeam, 21 juillet 2011 - 12:41 .


#553
slimgrin

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Aren19 wrote...

I'm not sure if there's a topic like this..


There's only about five of them a week. But don't let that stop you.

#554
Eromenos

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IsaacShep that's good to know. My shriveled heart even moved once!

Quething, that seems to mirror the tired old Star Trek stance in spite of its own textual EU. I hope the ME comparisons to it will not pan out in that sense.

#555
Eromenos

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[quote]ReconTeam wrote...

For the love of God I do not have the time nor patience to sit through your bull**** sociology theories and over-entitled rantings. Now, I don't know why the hell you bought into all of this garbage. Maybe it suits your personality so you desperately want it to all be true, maybe you're some angst filled teenager who think's he has the perfect ideas for society. Well guess what? You don't. Nobody is going to be able to reason you out of crackpot theories that have the same credibility as those who deny the moon landings to this day. You'll have to deal with this persecution complex on your own terms. If you can't you'll be whining about a "heteropatriachal" society keeping you down for the rest of your life, and people will ignore you for being a fringe ideologue. [/quote]

So you thought this queer would go cry, instead of matching you word-for-word. Guess you're the one who couldn't finish what you started.

Supposedly my "rantings" count for nothing, so in that case I figure you'd have no trouble moving on. And yet you're here? Graceful parting shots about PM now, after what we've done to each other? I think not, since this is going quite well. Feel free to stay as long as you're able to. I need to keep my rhetoric sharp.

[quote]Maybe you should see a therapist about this, but considering that you seem even more paranoid than myself I suppose you'd run off shouting about he or she is a "heterocentric" bigot somehow. Either way real life will knock some sense into you sooner or later.

[/quote]

Surprise, I live around straights, not in a gay ghetto. Surprise, this is also me everywhere I go. I'm not the political neophyte here, I'm afraid you are.

[quote]

The reality is that you should be grateful, damned grateful I might add. For reasons likely relating to political correctness run-amok, they gave you a homosexual romance option in DA:O and you ought to thank them for this kindness. Because despite what you think, they don't owe you anything. Then ideologues like David Gaider push this "everybody is bisexual" DA2 garbage and now you think you're entitled to it. Once again, you are not. The fact that you think the ME1/2 teams are bigots for not catering to you is simply false. It comes down to your group making a request and the decision of how to respond falling on them. Nowhere are you entitled to anything.

[/quote]

What homosexual romance in DAO? Which one is this you speak of?

Kindness, no. Your twisted version of the truth paints BioWare like angels when in fact they made no such effort until DA2. We are all entitled to not being treated like pets just so someone like you can feel safe. I'd rather we be the ones who are safe while you learn to live with being less special than you assume.

[quote]

I'm amuzed that you're so deluded you would argue that DA2 was the better game. The writing was worse, the characters were worse with some exception, the visual style was worse, it clearly lacked polish, and I could go on like this for a long time. Better yet, go to the DA2 forum and see why the critics there don't like it.  Needless to say DA2 isn't the standard for anything, especially romances. The fact that you thought that Zevran was a "token bisexual" isn't my concern nor Biowares.

[/quote]

You say "critics" as if the gaming sites and mags weighed-in, here at BSN. Whether or not they did, your efforts at credibility are getting worse and worse. What we have over there are simply customers, definitely lots of them biphobic like yourself, and thus none worth entertaining. DA2's team already knew what they were getting into.

I'm the one who's actually amazed that you would think DAO were some treasure. Aside for the sorry maps, DA2 had an actual framerate, actual combat, interesting political movements, and definitely all-bisexual LIs who were vocally involved every step of the journey. Protagonist even has a nominal psychological profile.

As I've said before, I need no responsibility from you. BioWare's implementations are my only concern, and now that M/M is on the record as incoming for ME3, you being yourself is much more fun to me during the meantime.

[quote]

I didn't bother reading your essay there, but I saw you mentioned DADT again. Don't try to lecture me about that. What this James Vega would be doing would be violating countless standards of conduct even with DADT repealed. The romance with Ashley in ME1 also violated plenty of regulations, yet not to the same extent. Why? Because of a military culture you wouldn't understand nor care to. In fact I am almost certain that you lothe the fact that it defies your "vision." If you want to continue our PM discussion about this topic, feel free to, but you are in the wrong there just as you are in the wrong here.

[/quote]

I've no doubt you did read it, except now you just don't want to risk having to quote me mentioining several times how you tried and failed to exploit sociology, race, and the influence of queer gamers in your efforts to derail me.

"...violating countless standards of conduct even with DADT repealed." Do tell. Are you active, a veteran, or just some aficionado? Do tell, what these "standards" are. My automatic assumption is of course that you're pulling this out of your...ok, now you're just giftwrapping this to me. First you tried implying that even with DADT dead there might still be stuff on the books that would save your mind from witnessing a situation of American military M/M. Now you're just saying that it's an "American military cultural thing." Hate to break it to you, but you can't pretend to have it both ways. Your latter claim is the only one with any hint of merit to it, and only because the death of DADT is just a recent thing. This latter claim also has less weight than you imagine, seeing as how the majority of surveyed troops commented feeling "no issues against" serving alongside out queer soldiers/sailors/marines/pilots/crew.

Now then, ME is an Americanized military centuries later in the future, without your DADT in anybody's way. It just ain't your daddy's military.

[/quote]

[quote]
Now if you have anything to say that isn't backed by crackpot sociology theories and your perfect vision for the society you want, please try to summarize it. Because I am not in the mood to read a bunch of hot air and chest beating by some over-entitled fanboy.
[/quote]

Why, what changed? You certainly allowed yourself to keep reading when you still assumed you could take me in front of everybody. You also assumed I wouldn't punch holes in every facet of your queer-hating belief-system.

Modifié par Eromenos, 21 juillet 2011 - 01:23 .


#556
AngelicMachinery

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Penis Text measuring on mah bsn?

#557
Skirata129

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I think it's pretty much established that Ash isn't would she have refused the option with liara otherwise?

#558
AngelicMachinery

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Skirata129 wrote...

I think it's pretty much established that Ash isn't would she have refused the option with liara otherwise?


Are you refering to the threesome?  Your logic is flawed my friend.  Bisexuality doesn't require polyamory/hedonism/or what have you.  Besides,  she thinks all aliens are bears... or something.

#559
Inquisitor Recon

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Image IPB

[quote]Eromenos wrote...
So you thought this queer would go cry, instead of matching you word-for-word. Guess you're the one who couldn't finish what you started.
[/quote]

Oh I fully expect you to go cry between reading my posts before coming back with some more chest-beating nonsense.

[quote]
Supposedly my "rantings" count for nothing, so in that case I figure you'd have no trouble moving on. And yet you're here? Graceful parting shots about PM now, after what we've done to each other? I think not, since this is going quite well. Feel free to stay as long as you're able to. I need to keep my rhetoric sharp.
[/quote]

Supposedly? Your rantings DO count for nothing. The only reason I'm still here is because I'm stubborn and think maybe something can get past your thick skull. Rhetoric? That's all your good for, repeating the same nonsense only supported in your head over and over again. Oh and considering you've fled from our PM argument I'd hope you wouldn't bother repeating some of those lines.

[quote]
Surprise, I live around straights, not in a gay ghetto. Surprise, this is also me everywhere I go. I'm not the political neophyte here, I'm afraid you are.
[/quote]

Oh but don't you believe some nonsense about them being all bisexual to some extent or another? But I suppose you've got to be capable of not spewing your "heterosexuals are the cause of all of my problems" nonsense in real life.

[quote]
What homosexual romance in DAO? Which one is this you speak of?
[/quote]

A male romance with Zevran.

[quote]
Kindness, no. Your twisted version of the truth paints BioWare like angels when in fact they made no such effort until DA2. We are all entitled to not being treated like pets just so someone like you can feel safe. I'd rather we be the ones who are safe while you learn to live with being less special than you assume.
[/quote]

Twisted version of the truth? Your vision of reality is so twisted you don't understand truth. You are entitled to absolutely nothing. What do you fail to understand about this? You aren't special because you sleep with men and aren't entitled to quotas or content suited to your whims.

[quote]
You say "critics" as if the gaming sites and mags weighed-in, here at BSN. Whether or not they did, your efforts at credibility are getting worse and worse. What we have over there are simply customers, definitely lots of them biphobic like yourself, and thus none worth entertaining. DA2's team already knew what they were getting into.
[/quote]

My efforts at credibility? You've already proven that you and your views have no credibility. The fact remains that a large portion of customers didn't like DA2. You think you're worth entertaining but they are not because they are "biphobic"? That is arrogance, pure and simple. By the way I'd suggest you go to Metacritic and compare both games. Even official reviewer scores give DA:O something of an edge.

[quote]
I'm the one who's actually amazed that you would think DAO were some treasure. Aside for the sorry maps, DA2 had an actual framerate, actual combat, interesting political movements, and definitely all-bisexual LIs who were vocally involved every step of the journey. Protagonist even has a nominal psychological profile.
[/quote]

DA:O didn't have an actual framerate? We'll I'm sorry your computer had problems with it, the game work fined for me. Plus DA:O had actual combat that required some strategy and planning, introduced this whole new setting that wasn't largely confined to a single city, and had interesting party members and LIs who weren't all bisexual in order to meet the ego of individuals like yourself. Sometimes a more defined protagonist is a good thing (though you would rant and scream if their sexuality was defined as straight), but DA:Os was certainly more customizable.

[quote]
As I've said before, I need no responsibility from you. BioWare's implementations are my only concern, and now that M/M is on the record as incoming for ME3, you being yourself is much more fun to me during the meantime.
[/quote]

And if the ME3 development team is sane they won't go with the "everybody's bisexual" route because David Gaider champions it and fanboys like you feel entitled to it. If you're so confident why don't you run back to the S/S group topic? Or let me guess... they aren't worthy of your presence because they are all grateful for what Bioware has done for the.

[quote]
I've no doubt you did read it, except now you just don't want to risk having to quote me mentioining several times how you tried and failed to exploit sociology, race, and the influence of queer gamers in your efforts to derail me.
[/quote]

Derail you? You've derailed from the topic from the start, and it is you who has been trying and failing to use sociology, race, and your so called "influence" to justify your absurd sense of entitlement. So don't come in here and try to accuse me of what you're guilty of.

[quote]
Do tell. Are you active, a veteran, or just some aficionado? Do tell, what these "standards" are. My automatic assumption is of course that you're pulling this out of your...ok, now you're just giftwrapping this to me. First you tried implying that even with DADT dead there might still be stuff on the books that would save your mind from witnessing a situation of American military M/M. Now you're just saying that it's an "American military cultural thing." Hate to break it to you, but you can't pretend to have it both ways. Your latter claim is the only one with any hint of merit to it, and only because the death of DADT is just a recent thing. This latter claim also has less weight than you imagine, seeing as how the majority of surveyed troops commented feeling "no issues against" serving alongside out queer soldiers/sailors/marines/pilots/crew. Now then, ME is an Americanized military centuries later in the future,
without your DADT in anybody's way. It just ain't your daddy's military.
[/quote]

Wait... are you seriously implying that a soldier could have a homosexual romance with another soldier or officer and not be discharged or severely punished for it? That's not the way it works. It is both regulations on the books and a military culture that does not encourage such behavior. Polls also found that combat personnel where largely against the decision. Tolerance of homosexuals does not mean anybody would tolerate two soldiers having a romance with each other or some soldier behaving flamboyant manner and bothering other soldiers, causing disruption in the unit, etc. Even centuries from now such a scenario where everybody would look the other way at such a romance would not occur. But I love how you live under the impression that your vision of society will come true in the future.

[quote]
Why, what changed? You certainly allowed yourself to keep reading when you still assumed you could take me in front of everybody. You also assumed I wouldn't punch holes in every facet of your queer-hating belief-system.[/quote]

I realized that I had wasted well upwards of an hour debating a fanatic. Punch holes in my "queer-hating belief-system"? All you've given me is rhetoric and repetition. Care to mix it up a bit?

Modifié par ReconTeam, 21 juillet 2011 - 04:12 .


#560
FoxHound109

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I think both of you should put a picture of King Kong at the very top of those text skyscrapers, just for fun.

#561
Siansonea

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Yeah, those two need to just make out already.

#562
Guest_Ferris95_*

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ReconTeam stop being so tsundere and just kiss him already.

#563
James2912

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 I support this. As long as there is no ninjamancing and that goes for hetero too. 

#564
James2912

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IsaacShep wrote...

Quething wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...

Eromenos wrote...

Is she really, in SW canon? Lucas actually didn't stand in the way?

Not at all, there are even two gay Mandalorian dudes who adopted a Mandalorian ophraned girl. One of them is even Boba Fett's right hand.


Yeah, but you can only pull that off in the more hidden corners of the SWEU when Lucas isn't looking. "There's no gay in Star Wars" is still "official" policy as far as I'm aware, so if there's any in TOR, let's hope nobody reports it to him.

Also, this thread still hasn't been locked? Wonders never cease.

There isn't, it was just some stupid thing Sean Dahlberg (TOR Community Manager) said on TOR forums and then retracted and apologized for everything (including his obvious lack of knowledge on EU canon). People had a field day rubbing Juhani and Mandalorian gays into his face haha


I started a new thread about this on TOR general discussion forum. its on fire. 

#565
AngelicMachinery

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Ferris95 wrote...

ReconTeam stop being so tsundere and just kiss him already.


Dawww I hearted all over this post.

#566
Inquisitor Recon

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FoxHound109 wrote...
I think both of you should put a picture of King Kong at the very top of those text skyscrapers, just for fun.


Okay, I'll do it.

*Edited* Check it now.

Modifié par ReconTeam, 21 juillet 2011 - 04:13 .


#567
FoxHound109

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LMAO! Win!

#568
AngelicMachinery

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I don't think Dragon Age 2 sucking has anything to do with bisexuality and everything to do with the fact it was a shoddy product rushed out the front gates in hopes of earning some cash money. It's not "Biphobia" it's an average game attempting to stand on the shoulders of a good game.

Seriously, anyone blaming bisexuality for it's face plant should take a deep breath and reevaluate their opinion, Those who are shouting "BISEXUALITY IS EVIL" would be ****ing about something else, like rehashed environments, short missions, and relatively lax storyline.

Stop QQing about queers and start QQing about what matters.

#569
FoxHound109

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Am I seriously the only person on the face of the planet who loved Dragon Age II? D:

#570
AngelicMachinery

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FoxHound109 wrote...

Am I seriously the only person on the face of the planet who loved Dragon Age II? D:


I like Dragon Age 2,  but,  I don't "love it."  I did enjoy the sped up combat,  but, point in fact...  the story wasn't quite strong.

#571
FoxHound109

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Really? I felt the story in DA II was better. Dragon Age: Origins felt too standard epic Fantasy with one giant faceless evil to defeat. I liked the political intrigue of II.

#572
James2912

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AngelicMachinery wrote...

I don't think Dragon Age 2 sucking has anything to do with bisexuality and everything to do with the fact it was a shoddy product rushed out the front gates in hopes of earning some cash money. It's not "Biphobia" it's an average game attempting to stand on the shoulders of a good game.

Seriously, anyone blaming bisexuality for it's face plant should take a deep breath and reevaluate their opinion, Those who are shouting "BISEXUALITY IS EVIL" would be ****ing about something else, like rehashed environments, short missions, and relatively lax storyline.

Stop QQing about queers and start QQing about what matters.


I definitely agree with this! 

#573
AngelicMachinery

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FoxHound109 wrote...

Really? I felt the story in DA II was better. Dragon Age: Origins felt too standard epic Fantasy with one giant faceless evil to defeat. I liked the political intrigue of II.


If the political intruige was further emphasized I would have been i love.  It just felt like the story was weak considering it's seven year span,  character interaction in my opinion suffered horribly.  Take the Merril romance after the "Romance scene" she shouted out "I LOVE YOU."  

It felt EXTREMELY akward to ME,  because I was looking at it from a player perspective she declared her love for Hawke in four conversations.  My innitial responce was to cut it off because of how weird it was,  I managed to stick through because of the fact it was supposedly years into their friendship.

Point in fact though,  DAO was a prototypical fantasy quest and it did it wel.  DA2 attempted to be something more reactive and political and for the most part it didn't live up too it's big sister.

That's neither here nor there though.

#574
Ryzaki

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...There better not be any ninjamancing in ME3. Het/lesbian/gay I don't care. I better not get f*cking ninjamanced.

#575
Guest_Ferris95_*

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@Ryzaki Agreed. Awkward as all hell when Ash was in love with me after I took a casual interest in her background.