887 réponses à ce sujet

[Saeran]

Kaiser_Wilhelm wrote...

Russalka wrote...

Maybe the religions do not care as much in the future.

According to Ashley, they are often heavily mocked or treated as outcasts outside of human planets, and she sticks very strongly to her beliefs. I don't think it'd be an issue of "not caring".

Religion changes, after the discovery of FTL travel and aliens religions were pretty much abandoned and religious leaders tried changing the scriptures to try and allow it to coincide with the existence of aliens. Or at least thats what it says in Mass Effect: Revelations.

[ipgd]

Kaiser_Wilhelm wrote...

According to Ashley, they are often heavily mocked or treated as outcasts outside of human planets, and she sticks very strongly to her beliefs. I don't think it'd be an issue of "not caring".

You seem to know a lot about the beliefs of her unspecified 22nd century religion.

There are lots of things that were justified by religion 180 years ago that those same religious people do not believe anymore. What exactly requires her to think homosexuality is a sin?

Modifié par ipgd, 23 juillet 2011 - 01:26 .

[Kaiser_Wilhelm]

ipgd wrote...

Kaiser_Wilhelm wrote...

According to Ashley, they are often heavily mocked or treated as outcasts outside of human planets, and she sticks very strongly to her beliefs. I don't think it'd be an issue of "not caring".

You seem to know a lot about the beliefs of her unspecified 22nd century religion.

There are lots of things that were justified by religion 180 years ago that those same religious people do not believe anymore. What exactly requires her to think homosexuality is a sin?

By the same token, you seem to know quite a lot about it too. How do you know her religion does not consider it a sin? It can be personal feelings, religious beliefs, etc., to think of it as a sin. Religious or not, her own feelings may be against it.

[Jade5233]

I was playing DDR this morning and couldn't help making this vid since the song came up.  Sorry about the glare--it was my TV and my iPod

[ipgd]

Kaiser_Wilhelm wrote...

By the same token, you seem to know quite a lot about it too. How do you know her religion does not consider it a sin? It can be personal feelings, religious beliefs, etc., to think of it as a sin. Religious or not, her own feelings may be against it.

You're the one making the positive statement, guy: the burden of proof is on you to prove it is definitively a sin in her religion. If you cannot do so, the argument that Ashley cannot be gay or bisexual because of her religion does not really have legs.

[Kaiser_Wilhelm]

ipgd wrote...

Kaiser_Wilhelm wrote...

By the same token, you seem to know quite a lot about it too. How do you know her religion does not consider it a sin? It can be personal feelings, religious beliefs, etc., to think of it as a sin. Religious or not, her own feelings may be against it.

You're the one making the positive statement, guy: the burden of proof is on you to prove it is definitively a sin in her religion. If you cannot do so, the argument that Ashley cannot be gay or bisexual because of her religion does not really have legs.

Not "cannot", but it "would not" make sense. I suppose it really depends on what religion the players perceive her as being of. I just think that if one thinks she's adamantly religious and against homosexuality, it's quite an odd turn to make her such in ME3, especially if they're used to her personality in ME1 and 2. I am one of those who perceived her as such, and it would be a very drastic change, in my opinion, to change her in ME3.

[upsettingshorts]

Kaiser_Wilhelm wrote...

 I just think that if one thinks she's adamantly religious and against homosexuality, it's quite an odd turn to make her such in ME3, especially if they're used to her personality in ME1 and 2. I am one of those who perceived her as such, and it would be a very drastic change, in my opinion, to change her in ME3.

So you're prejudiced.

[ipgd]

Kaiser_Wilhelm wrote...

Not "cannot", but it "would not" make sense. I suppose it really depends on what religion the players perceive her as being of. I just think that if one thinks she's adamantly religious and against homosexuality, it's quite an odd turn to make her such in ME3, especially if they're used to her personality in ME1 and 2. I am one of those who perceived her as such, and it would be a very drastic change, in my opinion, to change her in ME3.

Again: what evidence do you have that suggests her religion would be against homosexuality? Not all religions believe homosexuality is a sin.

[Kaiser_Wilhelm]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Kaiser_Wilhelm wrote...

I just think that if one thinks she's adamantly religious and against homosexuality, it's quite an odd turn to make her such in ME3, especially if they're used to her personality in ME1 and 2. I am one of those who perceived her as such, and it would be a very drastic change, in my opinion, to change her in ME3.

So you're prejudiced.

Absolutely not. I tolerate all beliefs and actually support homosexual rights. I'm just saying that making her bisexual suddenly like that, when my perception of her has been solidified in both ME1 and 2, would seem like quite a major change, and would not fit her character.

Of course, it all depends on how one perceives her character to begin with, which is something I did not think of prior to making my point on her beliefs.

Modifié par Kaiser_Wilhelm, 23 juillet 2011 - 02:13 .

[Wereparrot]

NICKjnp wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

I tire of knowing more about Christianity than the people who claim to follow it. 

"You shall keep My statues. You shall not let your livestock breed with another kind. You shall not sow your field with mixed seed. Nor shall a garmet of mixed linen and woll com upon you." (Leviticus 19:19) 

Huh. Guess the old laws only matter when it comes to teh gays eh? 

According to Christian teaching the old laws were done away with at the Cross.  Is that what you were wondering?  Leviticus, part of the pentateuch and the book specifically regarding the the practice of the levites (the members of the OT priest class), is part of those things that were done away with.

According to Jewish teachings those are still part of there lives.  Though many of their teachings are not put into pratice as of around 200 BC.  I'm afraid I don't have the specific details as to why.  All I know is that it was officialy changed by the pharisees at that point.

The ceremonial law is fulfilled, but the moral law still stands, according to Matthew 5 verse 17

Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

So no, Leviticus is not done away with. Indeed, Romans reinforces it.

If Ashley were therefore a Christian, and I'm not saying she is, there would be a good chance that she would believe this.

[upsettingshorts]

Kaiser_Wilhelm wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

So you're prejudiced.

I'm just saying that making her bisexual suddenly like that, when my perception of her has been solidified in both ME1 and 2, would seem like quite a major change, and would not fit her character.

Of course, it all depends on how one perceives her character to begin with, which is something I did not think of prior to making my point on her beliefs.

So it's a preconceived opinion or feeling.

I didn't say you were prejudiced against homosexuals, I was implying that your interpretation of the character prejudices you against the idea of her being bisexual.  

Wereparrot wrote...

If Ashley were therefore a Christian, and I'm not saying she is, there would be a good chance that she would believe this.

Leviticus also says Christians can't eat shellfish, and they do all the time.  It would still depend.  She says she believes in God, with nothing specific to say about what particular rites or dogma she subscribes to.  She could have a copy of the Jefferson Bible under her bunk for all we know. 

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 23 juillet 2011 - 02:28 .

[Russalka]

All opinions are valid though. And that is what all we have to offer in this discussion, opinions. Personally, I think it would be refreshing to have a both religious and a bisexual character.

[shepskisaac]

Kaiser_Wilhelm wrote...

Absolutely not. I tolerate all beliefs and actually support homosexual rights. I'm just saying that making her bisexual suddenly like that, when my perception of her has been solidified in both ME1 and 2, would seem like quite a major change, and would not fit her character.

Of course, it all depends on how one perceives her character to begin with, which is something I did not think of prior to making my point on her beliefs.

Sorry but if it feels like a major change for you, than it's just your own fault you interpreted her character incorrectly. Many people didn't think of her as racist and religious zealot. They won't be surprised.

[Kaiser_Wilhelm]

IsaacShep wrote...

Kaiser_Wilhelm wrote...

Absolutely not. I tolerate all beliefs and actually support homosexual rights. I'm just saying that making her bisexual suddenly like that, when my perception of her has been solidified in both ME1 and 2, would seem like quite a major change, and would not fit her character.

Of course, it all depends on how one perceives her character to begin with, which is something I did not think of prior to making my point on her beliefs.

Sorry but if it feels like a major change for you, than it's just your own fault you interpreted her character incorrectly. Many people didn't think of her as racist and religious zealot. They won't be surprised.

Exactly.

Modifié par Kaiser_Wilhelm, 23 juillet 2011 - 03:52 .

[Wereparrot]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Kaiser_Wilhelm wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

So you're prejudiced.

I'm just saying that making her bisexual suddenly like that, when my perception of her has been solidified in both ME1 and 2, would seem like quite a major change, and would not fit her character.

Of course, it all depends on how one perceives her character to begin with, which is something I did not think of prior to making my point on her beliefs.

So it's a preconceived opinion or feeling.

I didn't say you were prejudiced against homosexuals, I was implying that your interpretation of the character prejudices you against the idea of her being bisexual.  

Wereparrot wrote...

If Ashley were therefore a Christian, and I'm not saying she is, there would be a good chance that she would believe this.

Leviticus also says Christians can't eat shellfish, and they do all the time.  It would still depend.  She says she believes in God, with nothing specific to say about what particular rites or dogma she subscribes to.  She could have a copy of the Jefferson Bible under her bunk for all we know. 

That was part of the ceremonial law, which I did say was the law that was fulfilled rather than the moral law.

I've never come across the Jefferson Bible though. A fair point, of course.

[Arik7]

ReconTeam wrote...

As I've said, we're going to continue this until hell freezes over or the topic is locked. I can't decide which is more likely however.

Arik7 wrote...
On the other hand, it would be rude to wonder
about the psychology of one who spends hours upon hours of his time to
complain about virtual same-sex romance OPTION in a sci-fi video game.  


You put so much time and effort into those endless walls of text.  Don't you have anything more interesting to do?

Somebody needs to ramble on for the sake of sanity aroud here. Whatever moral objections aside, this is option which may involve making pre-existing characters bisexual, and it all requires development time and resources best used elsewhere in my less than humble opinion. Plus I don't want a repeat of DA2, nor should anybody sane, including the S/S crowd. You want this feature, go ahead and request it. Yet don't expect people to be pleased by the prospect of existing characters changed to suit your whims, and don't think you're entitled to it like Eronomos here.

Spending hours upon hours whining about a gay option in a video game is "sanity"?  Dude....  

BioWare has already stated that based on the data from DAO, there is significant enough demand for same-sex content.  Your opinion doesn't come across as "humble" , as you presume to know better than the developers.  

DA2 had a lot a flaws, but availability of all LIs to the player wasn't one them.  It made the game more interesting for more people.  Isn't that the point?  If all BioWare cared about is "realism", DA and ME would not exist at all.  You'd probably get another WW2 shooter instead.

Nobody is "entitled" to anything. You are not entitled to even more resources being spend on your "straight only" ME universe as you've insisted.  

According to BioWare, they are making these games not for themselves and feedback from the fans is important to them.  That's what we've been providing and I am glad they've listened.

ReconTeam wrote...
Considering that he just keeps repeating himself it doesn't take too long to churn out a response, but I could ask the same "don't you have anything more interesting to do" of him or pretty much anybody on these boards.

It's a matter of degree.   Judging by the amount of time you spend here, you seem pre-occupied with this OPTIONAL content in a video-game.  Perhaps your crusade isn't really about video games?

[Wereparrot]

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...

We can't discuss religion here.

Nevertheless, religion is relevant in this case because Ashley has a faith.

[Arik7]

Ashley's religion certainly does not preclude her from being bisexual in any way.  Just like the majority of people, most gay/bi people are religious/spiritual.  In the Western World, they are usually Christian.

Modifié par Arik7, 23 juillet 2011 - 04:25 .

[Wereparrot]

Arik7 wrote...

Ashley's religion certainly does not preclude her from being bisexual in any way.  Just like the majority of people, most gay/bi people are religious/spiritual.  In the Western World, they are usually Christian.

Depending on denomination, of course. 

[shepskisaac]

Wereparrot wrote...

Depending on denomination, of course.

No. There are bisexual and gay people in every denomination. There are gay Jews, gay Muslims, gay Buddhists, gay Scientologists and gay Christians of every denomination. Following a set of religious believes does not make anyone straight.

[Wereparrot]

IsaacShep wrote...

Wereparrot wrote...

Depending on denomination, of course.

No. There are bisexual and gay people in every denomination. There are gay Jews, gay Muslims, gay Buddhists, gay Scientologists and gay Christians of every denomination. Following a set of religious believes does not make anyone straight.

Yes. If someone respects the verses in Leviticus and Romans and the verse I quoted from Matthew, they would not behave contary to the content of those verses.

My point stands.

[NICKjnp]

But it does keep them from acting on those feelings. Almost all faiths accept the fact that there are gay people but teach that acting on those feelings is wrong. Those who do are excommunicated from the church. In the case of the Muslim world it is much worse.

[Wereparrot]

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...

Wereparrot wrote...

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...

We can't discuss religion here.

Nevertheless, religion is relevant in this case because Ashley has a faith.

It's against site rules.

I suggest you take that up with Bioware, and Ashley's writer in particular.