Ce sujet est fermé
PrinceLionheart wrote...
I just saw it after posting my initial comment.
But they're joining the ranks of "Ash is teh Racist" and "Paragon Favoritsm" threads of being nothing but a broken record.
They shouldn't be made straight (Ash/Kaidan) just so you're happy because they're bi. Removal of an option to romance them in ME1 does not mean their attraction to same sex was removed, just as removal of Tali's romance in ME1 didn't make her asexual or not interested in opposite sex in general.ReconTeam wrote...
Abispa wrote...
My role playing shouldn't be crippled by your lack of imagination.
Characters shouldn't be made cardboard cutouts designed to please the whims of some fanboys.
Modifié par IsaacShep, 16 juillet 2011 - 04:17 .
NICKjnp wrote...
Her reference to God (in the singular form) as well as her reference to an after life when she speaks of her father puts her in the range of being either Christian or Muslim. Her speach and manerisms indicate Christian.
But I'll save this debate for when they decide indicate who the s/s options are going to be.
Modifié par Jademoon121, 16 juillet 2011 - 04:26 .
Jademoon121 wrote...
*sigh* One can be a monotheists and a bisexual at once. Religions mellow over time.
![=]](https://lvlt.forum.bioware.com/public/style_emoticons/default/sideways.png)
ReconTeam wrote...
Abispa wrote...
My role playing shouldn't be crippled by your lack of imagination.
Characters shouldn't be made cardboard cutouts designed to please the whims of some fanboys.
Modifié par Abispa, 16 juillet 2011 - 04:26 .
Or, y'know, not necessarily. Lots of people have their own beliefs which don't necessarily conform to the doctrine of specific books. Nothing about Ashley makes a strong implication that she is orthodox in her religious beliefs. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if the ambiguity was intentional to make Ashley appeal to a broader audience.Golden Owl wrote...
Was about to mention this myself....Mono Deity strongly suggesting a religon of the books.
Modifié par lietk12, 16 juillet 2011 - 04:26 .
Jedi Master of Orion wrote...
I feel like I've seen this thread before somehwere.
pablodurando wrote...
.................................
But seriously I find it hard to believe that there won't be some conflict regarding religion. Some key characters have vastly different religions, I would be sad if they didn't explore this somewhat with the sillhoute of death looming so close.
Eromenos wrote...
I'm afraid the reality is that queer people do have to fight thrice as hard just to attain even tokenized versions of affirmations that straight people are simply able to take for granted.
Most of us, queer or straight, prefer to project ourselves into the Shepards we role-play as, and we would like to witness our lives reflected in the NPCS all around. Most straight gamers are handed these comforts without second thought thanks to narrow heterocentric writing. Queer gamers cannot rely on being included thanks to continual homophobia in these parts.
Our knowing so means we should give up pointing out that homophobic tokenism is unacceptable. Because it's happened at our expense. We should expect them to try it again and we should speak of it, point to it in the relevant past to try and nip it in the bud before ME3 goes to retail. Considering all this we should not pretend as if being "allowed" M/M means the ME devs are finally heroes in any sense whatsoever. They have a nasty history of willfully mishandling queer depictions while patronizingly denouncing us for defending ourselves.
That's why calling someone homophobic is a mild label for framing our detractors in proper context.
Golden Owl wrote...
pablodurando wrote...
.................................
But seriously I find it hard to believe that there won't be some conflict regarding religion. Some key characters have vastly different religions, I would be sad if they didn't explore this somewhat with the sillhoute of death looming so close.
Yea gods, I hope not...what a debacle and very dangerous grounds for BW to step into.
Modifié par Ryzaki, 16 juillet 2011 - 04:43 .
ReconTeam wrote...
Eromenos wrote...
I'm afraid the reality is that queer people do have to fight thrice as hard just to attain even tokenized versions of affirmations that straight people are simply able to take for granted.
Most of us, queer or straight, prefer to project ourselves into the Shepards we role-play as, and we would like to witness our lives reflected in the NPCS all around. Most straight gamers are handed these comforts without second thought thanks to narrow heterocentric writing. Queer gamers cannot rely on being included thanks to continual homophobia in these parts.
Our knowing so means we should give up pointing out that homophobic tokenism is unacceptable. Because it's happened at our expense. We should expect them to try it again and we should speak of it, point to it in the relevant past to try and nip it in the bud before ME3 goes to retail. Considering all this we should not pretend as if being "allowed" M/M means the ME devs are finally heroes in any sense whatsoever. They have a nasty history of willfully mishandling queer depictions while patronizingly denouncing us for defending ourselves.
That's why calling someone homophobic is a mild label for framing our detractors in proper context.
Fight thrice as hard? Bioware will gladly pander to you if it gains them some free press by politically correct Escapist type rags. Narrow heterocentric writing? No that's just standard writing that doesn't treat you special. It seems you simply don't like the portrayal of a realistic society and would rather have the universe as you would like it, everybody else be damned. Maybe you think your sexuality is far more important than it really is, but you evidently think game developers owe you something. They don't however, and should be left to made the game they want rather than include "options" for people of every race or gender or sexuality. You don't see people demanding LIs of a specific human race or ethnicity, why do you deserve LIs just so you can imagine yourself as gay Shepard?
No. Going around calling people homophobic is simply your way of labelling those who don't think Bioware should meet your demands. You don't see real homophobia here, just people who hurt your feelings by thinking that Bioware shouldn't add anything to suit your particular tastes.
Modifié par Jademoon121, 16 juillet 2011 - 04:32 .
lietk12 wrote...
Or, y'know, not necessarily. Lots of people have their own beliefs which don't necessarily conform to the doctrine of specific books. Nothing about Ashley makes a strong implication that she is orthodox in her religious beliefs. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if the ambiguity was intentional to make Ashley appeal to a broader audience.Golden Owl wrote...
Was about to mention this myself....Mono Deity strongly suggesting a religon of the books.
ReconTeam wrote...
Eromenos wrote...
I'm afraid the reality is that queer people do have to fight thrice as hard just to attain even tokenized versions of affirmations that straight people are simply able to take for granted.
Most of us, queer or straight, prefer to project ourselves into the Shepards we role-play as, and we would like to witness our lives reflected in the NPCS all around. Most straight gamers are handed these comforts without second thought thanks to narrow heterocentric writing. Queer gamers cannot rely on being included thanks to continual homophobia in these parts.
Our knowing so means we should give up pointing out that homophobic tokenism is unacceptable. Because it's happened at our expense. We should expect them to try it again and we should speak of it, point to it in the relevant past to try and nip it in the bud before ME3 goes to retail. Considering all this we should not pretend as if being "allowed" M/M means the ME devs are finally heroes in any sense whatsoever. They have a nasty history of willfully mishandling queer depictions while patronizingly denouncing us for defending ourselves.
That's why calling someone homophobic is a mild label for framing our detractors in proper context.
Fight thrice as hard? Bioware will gladly pander to you if it gains them some free press by politically correct Escapist type rags. Narrow heterocentric writing? No that's just standard writing that doesn't treat you special. It seems you simply don't like the portrayal of a realistic society and would rather have the universe as you would like it, everybody else be damned. Maybe you think your sexuality is far more important than it really is, but you evidently think game developers owe you something. They don't however, and should be left to made the game they want rather than include "options" for people of every race or gender or sexuality. You don't see people demanding LIs of a specific human race or ethnicity, why do you deserve LIs just so you can imagine yourself as gay Shepard?
No. Going around calling people homophobic is simply your way of labelling those who don't think Bioware should meet your demands. You don't see real homophobia here, just people who hurt your feelings by thinking that Bioware shouldn't add anything to suit your particular tastes.
Ryzaki wrote...
Golden Owl wrote...
pablodurando wrote...
.................................
But seriously I find it hard to believe that there won't be some conflict regarding religion. Some key characters have vastly different religions, I would be sad if they didn't explore this somewhat with the sillhoute of death looming so close.
Yea gods, I hope not...what a debacle and very dangerous grounds for BW to step into.
I swear to every deity in existance if there's a single religion fight on the Normandy my Shep is airlocking everyone involved without a single question asked.
If they're not adult enough to respect each others views they can GTFO.
Abispa wrote...
ANY characterization is going to be simplified in a game that IS and SHOULD be about saving the universe through the power of magic powers (oops, sorry, "biotics"), firearms and artillery. I have not doubt that ANY s/s romances that are introduced are NEVER going to make it as epic romances in the tradition of great literature or movies, just as none of the previous ones did.
LI are, have always been, and will always be just ways to customize our characters. If someone wants to have a s/s romance with Kaidan, it doesn't offend me or interfere with MY game one bit. Why is their desire for expanding the game any more shameful that someone who evangelicizes about the need of everyone's game to conform to his/her preconceived notions?
IsaacShep wrote...
They shouldn't be made straight
(Ash/Kaidan) just so you're happy because they're bi. Removal of an
option to romance them in ME1 does not mean their attraction to same sex
was removed, just as removal of Tali's romance in ME1 didn't make her
asexual or not interested in opposite sex in general. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/joyful.png[/smilie]
Modifié par Jademoon121, 16 juillet 2011 - 04:40 .
Riiiiight, because clearly a realistic society has no gay people, which is why it wouldn't make any sense for ME to such a thing either.ReconTeam wrote...
It seems you simply don't like the portrayal of a realistic society and would rather have the universe as you would like it, everybody else be damned.
Oh look, let's make a cinematic, story/character-based game where only certain players are supposed to be able to have full immersion and emotional attachment and blahblahblah. Go play a combat shooter if we managed to fail to capture your interest by not doing what we already chose to do. Or, oh wait, maybe Casey is just imposing his views on *your* game.ReconTeam wrote...
why do you deserve LIs just so you can imagine yourself as
I lol'd at accusations of demanding special treatmentReconTeam wrote...
No. Going around calling people homophobic is simply your way of labelling those who don't think Bioware should meet your demands. You don't see real homophobia here, just people who hurt your feelings by thinking that Bioware shouldn't add anything to suit your particular tastes.
Jademoon121 wrote...
RPGs let you play your character how you want. Yes, it's appropiate.
I just loved how you used the word "evangelicizing". You can arguement for any character, for anyone, for any trait. If you don't like the topic, don't take part in it.
ReconTeam wrote...
Jademoon121 wrote...
RPGs let you play your character how you want. Yes, it's appropiate.
I just loved how you used the word "evangelicizing". You can arguement for any character, for anyone, for any trait. If you don't like the topic, don't take part in it.
You can't do everything theoretically possible, nor should you be able to rewrite NPCs to be exactly what you want them to be.
I wasn't the one who first used the word "evangelicizing", and it would be easier to ignore if Bioware just ignored the crazy LI obsessed fanboys and gays who think they are being discriminated against because they can't sleep with *insert character here*. This sort of nonsense should be left to fan fiction rather than waste the developer's time and effort. Yet this topic is the same broken record that these fanatics have been playing the whole time, so I should probably do something constructive. It's just a shame that Bioware didn't just ignore them
lietk12 wrote...
Riiiiight, because clearly a realistic society has no gay people, which is why it wouldn't make any sense for ME to such a thing either.
Oh look, let's make a cinematic, story/character-based game where only certain players are supposed to be able to have full immersion and emotional attachment and blahblahblah. Go play a combat shooter if we managed to fail to capture your interest by not doing what we already chose to do. Or, oh wait, maybe Casey is just imposing his views on *your* game.
ReconTeam wrote...
I lol'd at accusations of demanding special treatment
Retour en haut