Aller au contenu

Photo

Ashley/Kaidan are Bi? Yes please!


887 réponses à ce sujet

#126
Jademoon121

Jademoon121
  • Members
  • 930 messages

ReconTeam wrote...

lietk12 wrote...
Riiiiight, because clearly a realistic society has no gay people, which is why it wouldn't make any sense for ME to such a thing either.


Typical response from your group. Nobody's saying there aren't any gay people in the ME universe. Yet why do you expect them to be in the game to suit your whims?  Your sexuality isn't as big of a deal as you pretend it to be.

Oh look, let's make a cinematic, story/character-based game where only certain players are supposed to be able to have full immersion and emotional attachment and blahblahblah. Go play a combat shooter if we managed to fail to capture your interest by not doing what we already chose to do. Or, oh wait, maybe Casey is just imposing his views on *your* game.


Do you not understand the defintion of roleplay? Are you incapable of imagining you as somebody other than yourself? The vast majority of the human race is straight so they aren't designing it for only "certain" players by not pandering to you. Go play a combat shooter? Why don't you go play some crap like the Sims where everybody can be just like you want them. That way nobody would have to listen to your "oh were sooooooo mistreated" BS on these forums.

ReconTeam wrote...
I lol'd at accusations of demanding special treatment


You are demanding special treatment. But I'm sure you've deluded yourself into thinking that isn't the case in your head.


Yet you are the one making such a big deal about it. Should the game succed to your views?

Most people don't want to roleplay, they want to play themselves through the character. And even that's not the case, some people just want to roleplay a character that just so happens to like the same-sex and there's no reason why they shouldn't.

Asking what was originally going to be given to you isn't special treatment.

#127
Homebound

Homebound
  • Members
  • 11 891 messages
^ notice how that entire quote tree has nothing to do about the characters being bi?

enough psuedo- social commentary.

i for one play my maleshepard straight and had kaidan as my vs. if he turns out to be gay, i dont really care. its not like im going to romance him or anything.

Modifié par Hellbound555, 16 juillet 2011 - 05:05 .


#128
Inquisitor Recon

Inquisitor Recon
  • Members
  • 11 805 messages

Jademoon121 wrote...
Who's the one talking about rewriting NPCs? You are. Not me.

That's no discrimination? How about originally being able to have the same options as straight people, only to have them denied, have the accuasations against said options being denied denied, and wait four years for the last installment to even have it? Here's an idea, if you promise content to a group of people, but half ass it and call them out on their allegations, someone's going to be angry.

Yet you are the one making such a big deal about it. Should the game succed to your views?

Most
people don't want to roleplay, they want to play themselves through the
character. And even that's not the case, some people just want to
roleplay a character that just so happens to like the same-sex and
there's no reason why they shouldn't.

Asking what was originally going to be given to you isn't special treatment.


I am talking about it because that is what you want. You expect them to be written/rewritten to suit your whims.

Discrimination? By not being given the option to sleep with a LI of the same sex in a video game? Oh the horror... Kaidan and Ashley were never bisexual in ME1. Maybe they considered it but such an option was never in ME1. As I said before both Shepard VAs recorded all of the lines for Shepard.

I'm wasn't the the one who made a big deal out of anything. Now I don't want to see them butcher an aspect of the game by caving into your every demand. Plus some part of me must still think I can reason with you.

Excuse me while I think of something I didn't get in ME1 or ME2 and claim I'm being discriminated against. Because that's exactly what you've been doing for the past 4 years.

Modifié par ReconTeam, 16 juillet 2011 - 05:08 .


#129
Jademoon121

Jademoon121
  • Members
  • 930 messages

ReconTeam wrote...

Jademoon121 wrote...
Who's the one talking about rewriting NPCs? You are. Not me.

That's no discrimination? How about originally being able to have the same options as straight people, only to have them denied, have the accuasations against said options being denied denied, and wait four years for the last installment to even have it? Here's an idea, if you promise content to a group of people, but half ass it and call them out on their allegations, someone's going to be angry.


I am talking about it because that is what you want. You expect them to be written/rewritten to suit your whims.

Discrimination? By not being given the option to sleep with a LI of the same sex in a video game? Oh the horror... Kaidan and Ashley were never bisexual in ME1. Maybe they considered it but such an option was never in ME1. As I said before both Shepard VAs recorded all of the lines for Shepard.

Excuse me while I think of something I didn't get in ME1 or ME2 and claim I'm being discriminated against.


I don't want anyone to be rewritten. You're fooling yourself if you think every GLBT guy on this forum thinks the same way.

They where voiced, scripted, and recorded. With the mods and the right file tapping, you can romance Kaidan or Ashley as a man or woman respectfully despite a few hiccups. Even Bioware admits this.

Modifié par Jademoon121, 16 juillet 2011 - 05:08 .


#130
Homebound

Homebound
  • Members
  • 11 891 messages
MaleShepard: Hey Kaidan, how do you feel about the Alliance Forums bashing you for being the first gay human SpecTre?

Kaidan: Its who I am, if they dont like it, tough cookies.

Modifié par Hellbound555, 16 juillet 2011 - 05:07 .


#131
pablodurando

pablodurando
  • Members
  • 516 messages

Golden Owl wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Golden Owl wrote...

pablodurando wrote...
.................................



But seriously I find it hard to believe that there won't be some conflict regarding religion.  Some key characters have vastly different religions, I would be sad if they didn't explore this somewhat with the sillhoute of death looming so close.


Yea gods, I hope not...what a debacle and very dangerous grounds for BW to step into.


I swear to every deity in existance if there's a single religion fight on the Normandy my Shep is airlocking everyone involved without a single question asked. 

If they're not adult enough to respect each others views they can GTFO. 


Seconded...Brilliant solution Ryzaki....:wizard:


I guess it would be too much controversy, shucks.

#132
Eromenos

Eromenos
  • Members
  • 596 messages

ReconTeam wrote...

Eromenos wrote...
I'm afraid the reality is that queer people do have to fight thrice as hard just to attain even tokenized versions of affirmations that straight people are simply able to take for granted.

Most of us, queer or straight, prefer to project ourselves into the Shepards we role-play as, and we would like to witness our lives reflected in the NPCS all around. Most straight gamers are handed these comforts without second thought thanks to narrow heterocentric writing. Queer gamers cannot rely on being included thanks to continual homophobia in these parts.

Our knowing so means we should give up pointing out that homophobic tokenism is unacceptable. Because it's happened at our expense. We should expect them to try it again and we should speak of it, point to it in the relevant past to try and nip it in the bud before ME3 goes to retail. Considering all this we should not pretend as if being "allowed" M/M means the ME devs are finally heroes in any sense whatsoever. They have a nasty history of willfully mishandling queer depictions while patronizingly denouncing us for defending ourselves.

That's why calling someone homophobic is a mild label for framing our detractors in proper context.


Fight thrice as hard? Bioware will gladly pander to you if it gains them some free press by politically correct Escapist type rags


Ohhhhh, the irony is you're only half-right. Never let it be said that BioWare is above pandering. Even regarding our queer visibility, both the good and the bad. Of course they're using us along the way. Don't pretend that I think otherwise.

As for your (undying)claim that queer people know nothing about fighting, I'm not surprised you'd try to frame ME3's S/S outcome as something that would never have moved forward without the "pity" and honest-to-gods bottom-line pandering on dear institutional BioWare's part, but only so you can try and minimize queer gamers' role in bringing it about. Most queer and straight gamers around here actually  think as you do, but when they lie to themselves and minimize the role of queer voices affecting BioWare's actions, they do it unconsciously. You, on the other hand, consciously do it to yourself and everyone who reads you because the truth about growing queer gamers and our allies' opinions actually affecting a prominent big business like this one is a situation that is your "responsibility" to dismiss and trivialize.

Narrow heterocentric writing? No that's just standard writing that doesn't treat you special. It seems you simply don't like the portrayal of a realistic society and would rather have the universe as you would like it, everybody else be damned. Maybe you think your sexuality is far more important than it really is, but you evidently think game developers owe you something. They don't however, and should be left to made the game they want rather than include "options" for people of every race or gender or sexuality. You don't see people demanding LIs of a specific human race or ethnicity, why do you deserve LIs just so you can imagine yourself as gay Shepard?


Narrow heterocentric writing. Yes, that's whitewashing across the board that pretends straightness is special or pervasive, more so than it ever is or ever was. And, it seems you simply don't like portrayal of a realistic society and would rather have the universe as you would like it, everybody else be damned. Maybe you think your sexuality is far more important than it really is, but you evidently think game developers owe you something.

There, I felt fixing that helped a lot.

They owe us big time. Even if they were genuine neophytes to the issue, had they never exploited us before, they still would owe us because queer gamers are clear-cut exceptions to "one-size-fits-all" heterocentric mentality. And because their mission statement for roleplaying is a lie when they commit the "mistake" of counting us for less.

You don't see people demanding LIs of a specific human race or ethnicity, why do you deserve LIs just so you can imagine yourself as gay Shepard?


You shouldn't play dumb, because of all things that is something you are not. But just for fun-

Shepard's ethnicity never changes and can be determined by the character creation screen. Shepard's sexuality needs to be determined in the game itself. The former requires no interaction with NPCs. The latter requires interaction with NPCs. Kids, who can repeat that for a star?

Now. Why do you deserve heterocentric LIs just so you can imagine an entire military frigate's crew as str8?

No. Going around calling people homophobic is simply your way of labelling those who don't think Bioware should meet your demands. You don't see real homophobia here, just people who hurt your feelings by thinking that Bioware shouldn't add anything to suit your particular tastes.


Since you're the one who abhors diverse sexualities to the point of thinking you can police other people's, the "particular tastes" here are yours, not mine. And yet supposedly, I am the "other" and "abnormal" as if I were alone, like my kind were so few.

Modifié par Eromenos, 16 juillet 2011 - 05:22 .


#133
Inquisitor Recon

Inquisitor Recon
  • Members
  • 11 805 messages

Jademoon121 wrote...
I don't want anyone to be rewritten. You're fooling yourself if you think every GLBT guy on this forum thinks the same way.

They where voiced, scripted, and recorded. With the mods and the right file tapping, you can romance Kaidan or Ashley as a man or woman respectfully despite a few hiccups. Even Bioware admits this.


A good portion of them think that way, and it's those fanatics I'm most concerned about Bioware listening to.

Like I said twice before. Both Shepard VAs recorded ALL of the lines for Shepard. Even stuff that didn't make sense like Mark Meer saying "but Liara we are both female." The fact that some mod added this unused dialouge and swapped models doesn't prove this feature was ever in a developmental version of ME1.

#134
Jademoon121

Jademoon121
  • Members
  • 930 messages

ReconTeam wrote...

Jademoon121 wrote...
I don't want anyone to be rewritten. You're fooling yourself if you think every GLBT guy on this forum thinks the same way.

They where voiced, scripted, and recorded. With the mods and the right file tapping, you can romance Kaidan or Ashley as a man or woman respectfully despite a few hiccups. Even Bioware admits this.


A good portion of them think that way, and it's those fanatics I'm most concerned about Bioware listening to.

Like I said twice before. Both Shepard VAs recorded ALL of the lines for Shepard. Even stuff that didn't make sense like Mark Meer saying "but Liara we are both female." The fact that some mod added this unused dialouge and swapped models doesn't prove this feature was ever in a developmental version of ME1.


Wanting to have something extra is not being fanatical. Please refamiliarize yourself with the definition. No different than the people asking for Tali or Garrus to be romancable in ME2.

He also says that he only likes men. How so you know that they voiced all the lines? Also, the reaction to Bioware after they were allegedly holding off was a little suspcious.

#135
Guest_mrsph_*

Guest_mrsph_*
  • Guests
Shepard also calls himself a woman. So yeah, they recorded all of the dialog just in case.

I think Weekes (one of the writer's) said they originally cut it out of the original Mass Effect because it wouldn't do the sub-plot justice, or something.

#136
Spatchmo

Spatchmo
  • Members
  • 389 messages
ReconTeam, not to derail this thread further than it already is, but I really am curious why you have such a disdain for bisexuals / homosexuals. Is it religion based or are you just uncomfortable with it? I am not going to attack you for your views but I would like to know.

#137
Homebound

Homebound
  • Members
  • 11 891 messages
rainbows are metal.

#138
Siansonea

Siansonea
  • Members
  • 7 281 messages
Someday they'll find a cure for déjà vu.

Nice to see that some things never change. Same folks fighting over the same non-issue over and over again. At least everybody's having fun.

#139
Homebound

Homebound
  • Members
  • 11 891 messages

Siansonea II wrote...

Someday they'll find a cure for déjà vu.

Nice to see that some things never change. Same folks fighting over the same non-issue over and over again. At least everybody's having fun.


war. war never changes.

#140
Inquisitor Recon

Inquisitor Recon
  • Members
  • 11 805 messages

Eromenos wrote...
There, I felt fixing that helped a lot.


Really? Fixing quotes now?

They owe us big time. Even if they were genuine neophytes to the issue, had they never exploited us before, they still would owe us for being clear-cut exceptions to "one-size-fits-all" and because their mission statement for roleplaying is a lie if they commit the "mistake" of counting us for less.


They don't owe you anything. You're not special and aren't owed anything different because you think you've been wronged. They don't owe me anything either.

You shouldn't play dumb, because of all things that is something you are not. But just for fun-

Shepard's ethnicity never changes and can be determined by the character creation screen. Shepard's sexuality needs to be determined in the game itself. The former requires no interaction with NPCs. The latter requires interaction with NPCs. Kids, who can repeat that for a star?

Now. Why do you deserve heterocentric LIs just so you can imagine an entire military frigate's crew as str8?


First, I'm surprised by the complement. Second, Shepard's sexuality does not need to be determined in the game itself. If it's so important to you, go ahead and think he's gay in your head. Shepard can't confirm he is from any specific country or region of earth. That doesn't mean you can't think he is from the Czech Republic for example. Why do you expect the ability to "confirm" he is gay? 

Bioware made the decision to start adding LIs to their games years ago, and at this point I would forgo them all to get rid of the nonsense we are seeing today. Why should they be heterosexual? Because that's the majority of the human population, the biological standard, and nobody is offended by it. Not everybody is as "open" about homosexuality as most are here and if you deserve consideration, why don't them?

Since you're the one who abhors diverse sexualities, the particular tastes here are yours, not mine. As usual, it seems I am the "other" and "abnormal" as if I were alone, or if my kind were so few.


I don't abhor "different" sexualitites. I tolerate and hold people to the same standards. But I'm not going to justify my views. You represent a small % of the human population and people playing this game. Why should a gay LI be added specifically for your group? Why not an asian LI for people who want one? What about any other combination of race, gender, and sexuality one could cook up? Bioware should design the game they want to design without quotas or nonsense like this topic. What I do abhor are over-entitled fanboys and this "righteous indignation" from the S/S crowd here.

I happened to be mostly fine with DA:O until they went overboard with DA2, and some still think that route is a good direction for Bioware to take. Regardless of what I want from the game, Bioware should not make the same mistake for ME3. I will also never support making pre-existing characters bisexual.

#141
Blacklash93

Blacklash93
  • Members
  • 4 154 messages
According to ReconTeam, gays aren't worth anyone's time in anything. They're a waste of time and anytime they want anything, they're demanding "special treatment".

The truth is that no one is entitled to content. Bioware doesn't owe any of us romances at all. Romances in general are special treatment. You can fool yourself into thinking otherwise, but at the end of the day the gay community was asking for something like anyone else. We may be a minority, but numbers don't make or break what makes a certain suggestion more valid than the next.

Modifié par Blacklash93, 16 juillet 2011 - 05:59 .


#142
mya11

mya11
  • Members
  • 1 478 messages
Please I don't want mass effect 3 = Dragon age 2 <_<

#143
Inquisitor Recon

Inquisitor Recon
  • Members
  • 11 805 messages

mya11 wrote...
Please I don't want mass effect 3 = Dragon age 2 <_<


This. I really wish this thinking was common sense of the forums, but it isn't.

#144
Ryzaki

Ryzaki
  • Members
  • 34 400 messages

mya11 wrote...

Please I don't want mass effect 3 = Dragon age 2 <_<


I'm pretty sure we don't have to worry about raining reinforcements and repeating maps. 

#145
mya11

mya11
  • Members
  • 1 478 messages
I am ok for new romance gay for new characteur but I will be disapointed if old squadmates are bi ! it's not realistic or the devs must change her personality and writing new dialogu pff !

#146
ObserverStatus

ObserverStatus
  • Members
  • 19 044 messages

Ryzaki wrote...

mya11 wrote...

Please I don't want mass effect 3 = Dragon age 2 <_<


I'm pretty sure we don't have to worry about raining reinforcements and repeating maps. 

Why not?  They have those fancy flying machines in Mass Effect, paratroopers would actually make sense.

#147
mya11

mya11
  • Members
  • 1 478 messages
Only Bioware know who is romance now we wait on march 2012 !

#148
Ryzaki

Ryzaki
  • Members
  • 34 400 messages

bobobo878 wrote...
Why not?  They have those fancy flying machines in Mass Effect, paratroopers would actually make sense.


Well I more meant raining reinforcements from nowhere (like them magically coming out from the floor even though you're right there). The Cerberus troopers had rocket boots so it was at least clear they came from *somewhere*. 

#149
ObserverStatus

ObserverStatus
  • Members
  • 19 044 messages

Ryzaki wrote...

bobobo878 wrote...
Why not?  They have those fancy flying machines in Mass Effect, paratroopers would actually make sense.


Well I more meant raining reinforcements from nowhere (like them magically coming out from the floor even though you're right there). The Cerberus troopers had rocket boots so it was at least clear they came from *somewhere*. 

I''m sure they're still raining from nowhere, they just have a more logical way of getting to shepard from nowhere in ME3.

#150
Abispa

Abispa
  • Members
  • 3 465 messages

ReconTeam wrote...

mya11 wrote...
Please I don't want mass effect 3 = Dragon age 2 <_<


This. I really wish this thinking was common sense of the forums, but it isn't.


Dude, don't be so hard on yourself. We dig you. Really.

Recon Team makes me :D.