887 réponses à ce sujet

[Ryzaki]

bobobo878 wrote...
I''m sure they're still raining from nowhere, they just have a more logical way of getting to shepard from nowhere in ME3.

Blargh. 

That would suck. At least in ME2 it made sense. 

[Abispa]

I actually liked DA2 DESPITE its MANY shortcoming, but I have to admit that Shepard had to work harder to make enemies explode.

God, but I love Vorcha pyros! I still want to hear the recruitment speech the Krogan give the impressionable young Vorcha to get them to volunteer for that.

[Blacklash93]

ReconTeam wrote...
 Not everybody is as "open" about homosexuality as most are here and if you deserve consideration, why don't them?

Because those who are so uncomfortable with homosexuality that they'd take an optional romance opportunity from an entire community just to satisfy themselves need to get with the program and learn not to be so sensitive. Pandering to irrationality just encourages it.

Modifié par Blacklash93, 16 juillet 2011 - 06:22 .

[Chun Hei]

Abispa wrote...
Recon Team makes me .

[Ryzaki]

Abispa wrote...

I actually liked DA2 DESPITE its MANY shortcoming, but I have to admit that Shepard had to work harder to make enemies explode.

God, but I love Vorcha pyros! I still want to hear the recruitment speech the Krogan give the impressionable young Vorcha to get them to volunteer for that.

 

I hate those little bastards. <_< ****ing pyros. 

[ObserverStatus]

Ryzaki wrote...

Abispa wrote...

I actually liked DA2 DESPITE its MANY shortcoming, but I have to admit that Shepard had to work harder to make enemies explode.

God, but I love Vorcha pyros! I still want to hear the recruitment speech the Krogan give the impressionable young Vorcha to get them to volunteer for that.

 

I hate those little bastards. <_< ****ing pyros. 

They're not so bad, just equip a viper rifle with incendiary rounds, and they'd may as well be firecrackers with legs.

[Chun Hei]

@ Ryzaki -- Abispa can be so sad. I remember how he introduced me to ME2. He was all saying I should watch him play and he kept shooting all the pyros backpacks with his gun. He would then tell me to watch and they exploded and he would laugh.

My Shepard was tougher. She would blow them up with her elbow!

[Dasher1010]

I'm guessing that Vega will be the male counterpart to Liara. I'm calling it now.

[AngelicMachinery]

Biphobia is horribly lame and should be abolished.

[Clover Rider]

AngelicMachinery wrote...

Biphobia is horribly lame and should be abolished.

But TV shows tell me that Bi people are not real!

[Ryzaki]

bobobo878 wrote...
They're not so bad, just equip a viper rifle with incendiary rounds, and they'd may as well be firecrackers with legs.

Sounds fun. 

Chun Hei wrote...

@ Ryzaki -- Abispa can be so sad. I remember how he introduced me to ME2. He was all saying I should watch him play and he kept shooting all the pyros backpacks with his gun. He would then tell me to watch and they exploded and he would laugh.

My Shepard was tougher. She would blow them up with her elbow!

I'm slow. It took me about 4 playthroughs before I realized I could do that.  

Heh. Shepard pawnch is deadly. 

[AngelicMachinery]

Some Geth wrote...

AngelicMachinery wrote...

Biphobia is horribly lame and should be abolished.

But TV shows tell me that Bi people are not real!

It might be the beer,  but, lolwut?

[Chun Hei]

AngelicMachinery wrote...

Biphobia is horribly lame and should be abolished.

That is why I tell people I am bi. Fear. I laugh and then they pee themselves.

[Clover Rider]

AngelicMachinery wrote...

Some Geth wrote...

AngelicMachinery wrote...

Biphobia is horribly lame and should be abolished.

But TV shows tell me that Bi people are not real!

It might be the beer,  but, lolwut?

TV shows have a long history of saying Bi people are not real is all.

But I am with you on that beer makes everything more funny.

[Wolfborn Son]

I hope everyone turns out to be asexual.  Including past love intrests.   Just so both sides come on the forum and whine.

EDIT:  I don't know how to spell at 3AM.

Modifié par Wolfborn Son, 16 juillet 2011 - 06:57 .

[Eromenos]

ReconTeam wrote...

Eromenos wrote...
There, I felt fixing that helped a lot.

Really? Fixing quotes now?

Ya, rly. The majority of your paragraph was equally useful for both sides of this argument, so it happened to be a handy shortcut for me to have you recognize your own words in oppositional context.

They don't owe you anything. You're not special and aren't owed anything different because you think you've been wronged. They don't owe me anything either.

Oh, but they do. BioWare doesn't get to "play with queer images" by exclusively using cop-out "mono-gendered" asari and Kelly the Human Screensaver, then just call it a day and pretend to be good people and big damn heroes.

Think that I've been wronged? First off, it's not just me. Second, there is nothing imagined about ME's purposeful homophobic exclusion against people like me. Third, you can dispense with your disparaging accusation about us wanting "special treatment." Our wanting human treatment is only "special" insofar as it is as-yet-unheard-of coming from the heteropatriarchal ME devs.

First, I'm surprised by the complement. Second, Shepard's sexuality does not need to be determined in the game itself. If it's so important to you, go ahead and think he's gay in your head. Shepard can't confirm he is from any specific country or region of earth. That doesn't mean you can't think he is from the Czech Republic for example. Why do you expect the ability to "confirm" he is gay? 

Bioware made the decision to start adding LIs to their games years ago, and at this point I would forgo them all to get rid of the nonsense we are seeing today. Why should they be heterosexual? Because that's the majority of the human population, the biological standard, and nobody is offended by it. Not everybody is as "open" about homosexuality as most are here and if you deserve consideration, why don't them?

Why would Shepard's sexuality not need to be determined in the game itself? How else? Entering into relationships/flirtations/afternoon-delights are things that establish who/what Shepard has a sexual interest in.

AFAIK, most of us are ok enough using skin-color and/or bone structures to determine Shepard's genetic ethnicity/race. If you want to push BioWare into adding textual labeling for our protagonists' home country, that's your thing. But at this point I fail to see how this relates to your distaste against queer Shepards being able to express who she/he is. My thing and your thing don't even compare. Shepard's Earth ancestry has little bearing upon anything in ME. Shepard's sexuality has everything to do with her/his human need for closeness, intimacy, and simply an adult person whom Shepard loves.

Heterosexuality isn't the "standard" for anything. It's socially constructed to be overvalued. The United States comprise the divorce capitol of the world(give or take), and the only advantages/boons that heterosexual pairings have over others are the result of homophobic "laws" and culture that continually villify any person who doesn't live up to the heterosexual script enforced by those who want a black-and-white world, something that is honestly too strangulating even for heterosexual people.

The "majority" of the current human population is likely heterosexual, but even then there is no excuse for portraying roughly 99% hetero and 1% bisexuals who are tailored to be suitable primarily for straight men. Heterosexuals may be the majority, but most certainly not to that slanted degree. Also, the queer minority are certainly more than the tokenized cop-outs the ME team forces on us. Short answer- there aren't so few of us as you often think, and even when we're fewer, that's a poor reason to think you can try to whitewash us away.

That is what you do when you talk about your voice not being heard. And I'm going to freely admit there can be no middle-ground for our opposing viewpoints. You see it as "stability" and "sanity" for the status quo if (excessive) heteronormativity continues, but you overlook the way it damages every person, especially to queer people much more so than straight people. Therefore I don't entertain the suggestion of "fairness" for your view because the view you've been supporting has had its say well beyond its share and at disproportionate expense against people like me.

I don't abhor "different" sexualitites. I tolerate and hold people to the same standards. But I'm not going to justify my views. You represent a small % of the human population and people playing this game. Why should a gay LI be added specifically for your group? Why not an asian LI for people who want one? What about any other combination of race, gender, and sexuality one could cook up? Bioware should design the game they want to design without quotas or nonsense like this topic. What I do abhor are over-entitled fanboys and this "righteous indignation" from the S/S crowd here.

I happened to be mostly fine with DA:O until they went overboard with DA2, and some still think that route is a good direction for Bioware to take. Regardless of what I want from the game, Bioware should not make the same mistake for ME3. I will also never support making pre-existing characters bisexual.

"Different" as opposed to "diverse." The distancing negative in favor over the equalizer. Your choice of words clings to a constructed hierarchy in which someone like you monopolizes the most benefits. But if you don't cop to the things that are always handed to you in an ideology that overvalues someone just for being straight, well, then you must be still a good person. And you'll coincidentally retain those benefits that only exist by segregating queer people into less.

That framework of "same standards" you mentioned is purposefully and invisibly stacked against queer people, yet they can only work so long as nobody drags those inconvenient facts out into the open. They're no doubt "common" standards you adopted for yourself, and seeing as you rely on the numbers-game, the concept of majority-rule is your sole justification, which is why I'm disappointed, but not surprised that you didn't go in depth about this on your own.

Ah, we're a "small %." I refuted that part earlier...what you like to think of as a "small %" is actually more responsible for the changes to DA2 and ME3 than the BioWare devs you defend so much. Logic implies that the "small %" is much bigger and/or being heard. Either or both outcomes is anathema to your framing of us, so this doesn't speak well for BioWare's ability to continually patronize us as you'd like to think. Short answer- the ME devs realize which way the wind's blowing.

"Why not an Asian LI for people who want one?" You answered it yourself. Lots of us queers speak up for queer LIs. Not many Asians(myself included) call out for Asian LIs. Meanwhile we're able to determine Shepard's skin-color, and for most of us that isn't nothing. We don't require an Asian LI to reaffirm those of us who are Asian. Yet we haven't been able to determine Shepard's sexuality to the satisfaction that we do require, and for all of us that is unacceptable. It takes overt expression to the same degree that straights get to perform. Not one bit less, and you simply wanting to avoid thinking about us is just not good enough of a reason for us to sit back.

Funny you should bring up quotas. It's BioWare's own fault for purposefully mismanaging our depictions. If we could count on them to portray both queer and straight characters (well, TBH at least the queer ones) in diverse fashion and in normalized quantities where one does not overtly dominate the other, then we'd have no need  for quotas to correct BioWare's screwups. Alas.

What I do abhor are over-entitled fanboys and this "righteous indignation" from the homophobic crowd here. Another fix.

DA2 set the new minimum standard. That team went to greater lengths than BioWare had ever committed to in the past in order to avoid harmful tokenism against queer characters. Not 100% successful, but they demonstrated significant and marked progress. They didn't write queer characters to be placating towards mainstream heterosexist America's preconceptions about us. It wasn't primarily a PSA/coming-out(that gets tiresome), but rather it was affirmation to actual queer people and the straight people who are able to "get it."

What is it about allowing characters to be bisexual at later stages that turns you off so much? You don't have to keep buying into all the negatively-cast stereotypes.

Modifié par Eromenos, 16 juillet 2011 - 07:58 .

[SchnityMcGee]

I find it hard to believe that Male Shep could be anything other than straight, due to the fact that in 2/3 of the games, so far for sure, he has been solely straight.

As for the Ash subject, I just couldn't imagine her being bi... idk why, I just can't.

Modifié par SchnityMcGee, 16 juillet 2011 - 07:13 .

[GreedIgnored]

Straight male here that made a Shepard with no romance in both ME1 and ME2 because I want my angry Renegade angry due to lack of sex... and yes I do mean the gay kind. I am in full support of gay Kaidan and lesbian Ashley for ME3. Thank you.

Ps. I have 2 straight Shepard and one whom is faithful to Liara.

[ElitePinecone]

SchnityMcGee wrote...

I find it hard to believe that Male Shep could be anything other than straight, due to the fact that in 2/3 of the games, so far for sure, he has been solely straight.

As for the Ash subject, I just couldn't imagine her being bi... idk why, I just can't.

You're, uh, a little late...



Shepard was solely nothing for the first two games, even if you make the illogical leap that female Shepard (who can sleep with Liara and Kelly) and male Shepard are different characters. 

Opportunity to sleep with members of the opposite sex does not make a person heterosexual. 

Equally, opportunity to sleep with members of the same sex doesn't make a person homosexual. 

[mineralica]

Remind me again why this (and "Miranda for femShep") isn't in central "For the love" thread?

[Ryzaki]

mineralica wrote...

Remind me again why this (and "Miranda for femShep") isn't in central "For the love" thread?

Same exact thing I'm wondering. 

[Errol Dnamyx]

Because the OP gets more attention this way.

[ElitePinecone]

Ryzaki wrote...

mineralica wrote...

Remind me again why this (and "Miranda for femShep") isn't in central "For the love" thread?

Same exact thing I'm wondering. 

In fairness to the OP, I think they didn't check the forum for the other thread.

But certain people always like a place to argue, which might explain why this thread has been reduced to seven or eight pages of ludicrous debate. 

[SchnityMcGee]

I have no problem with the option. It just seems that if he was straight, albeit forcefully, in the first 2, why would he suddenly decide to change his morals? If there is an option for it, that is perfectly fine. I will not choose it, due to the fact that my Shep has been a straight man chasing tail through out every game so far.

[Funkcase]

I'm fine with them being BI, I see nothing wrong with it. I think the option should be if only Shepard persue's it though, they shouldn't flirt with Shepard unless Shepard does first. In that way they remain straight for the people who want them to, and available for people who want them to be BI.

Modifié par Funkcase, 16 juillet 2011 - 08:07 .