587 réponses à ce sujet

[brettc893]

I broke down and bought it when I picked up XCOM(I had a coupon), and I have to say that, thus far, I am thoroughly unimpressed.

The AI is hilariously Stupid making stealth easy and removing the sense of urgency. Furthermore, while it advertises that you can be a pacifist, there's no way to knock out enemies in combat sans Sleep Darts which is fine as it implies that a more subtle sneaky approach is needed, but in one of the early side missions, I had no alternative but to kill 3 thugs that were extorting an old woman. And as for the old woman's quest, it had no impact whatsoever on my Assassination Mission, which Is contrary to what I believed.

The controls are quite wonky, ESPECIALLY the Double jump you get for buying the Agility Upgrade, and the game as a whole lacks fluidity. And also of note, I'm no graphics **** nor do I care about them really, but this game just does not look very good and anyone who praises it on visual fidelity is blinded by bias or some other malady.

And for a game that touts so much "Atmosphere" and "Depth" when it come to the backdrop of the narrative, the writing is woeful thus far. Apparently, the government decided to stage a coup and change their alignment to Chaotic Evil, but at least they were kind enough to tell me their whole plan. Assassin's Creed has such a good narrative because your enemies aren't just Saturday Morning Cartoonesque Villains, they're real people and thus killing them isn't really a joyful task.

And before anyone calls me a troll or just straight up hater, there are some things I like as well;

+The combat is quite fun at times and requires fast reflexes and timing to make it out alive.

+Bone Charms remind me a lot of Gene Tonics from Bioshock and have a "Gotta Collect 'Em All" effect.

+While the aforementioned villains at stupid, many other characters are quite likable and feel genuine. Samuel The Boatman and the Youngest Pendleton Brother in particular.

+The idea of "The Outsider" and "The Heart" are quite interesting and unique, but then again, I'm a sucker for the Occult.


All in all, the game plays and looks like a Bioshock Mod with a little Half Life 2 thrown in, but where Rapture and City 17 were immersive, Dunwall is just bland. Of course, I reserve my final judgement until I get a chance to really sit down and get into it, because as of right now, I've got an Alien invasion to turn back, and it requires my undivided attention.

Modifié par brettc893, 12 octobre 2012 - 09:36 .

[sympathy4sarenreturns]

I find it interesting that after extensive research of rat genetics and evolution of the plague, theuve learned or theorize the rats near or around ports or waterways were the last rats to get the plague and be carriers. Interesting...because that means it was planted. By why? And the most acute strains were used in poor sections. Not a story spoiler...all this info from lore books.

I've never been huge on the stealth genre, or even that experienced. Never played Thief...played every Deus Ex game, though. Definitely the same vein. Got someone to cut he throat of themselves tonight . Guard never knew what hit him. It's like "dude, you just cut your own throat..."

Modifié par sympathy4sarenreturns, 13 octobre 2012 - 07:37 .

[slimgrin]

The prologue and first mission took me about 6 hrs. But I'm playing mostly stealth and exploring quite a bit. The game rewards you well if you do. I find the bits of literature around the world quite evocative. I suspect most of the story will be told this way. Melee is a little wonky. I love the crossbow. And I stand by what I said about the visuals - on high settings it's a beautiful and atmospheric game.

Modifié par slimgrin, 13 octobre 2012 - 01:58 .

[milena87]

brettc893 wrote...

But in one of the early side missions, I had no alternative but to kill 3 thugs that were extorting an old woman. 

Actually there's an alternative to that. Don't open the front door, but go up the stairs and Blink your way past them. Once you reach higher ground, use the crossbow with sleeping darts and take them out. They shouldn't even see you.

Anyway, I just started playing and I'm almost done (I think) with the first assassination mission. So far I like it

[mr_afk]

milena87 wrote...

brettc893 wrote...

But in one of the early side missions, I had no alternative but to kill 3 thugs that were extorting an old woman. 

Actually there's an alternative to that. Don't open the front door, but go up the stairs and Blink your way past them. Once you reach higher ground, use the crossbow with sleeping darts and take them out. They shouldn't even see you.

Anyway, I just started playing and I'm almost done (I think) with the first assassination mission. So far I like it

Yep, sleeping darts work pretty well.
You should also be able to choke out the farthest back one if you drag him off to a side at the same time (if you want to save ammo). The hard part is to do the non-lethal approach without getting detected since chokeouts take considerably longer (before the arm-strength bone charm anyway). 
I also had some luck using thrown bottles to distract them or slow time to shoot and choke at the same time. 

I'm currently taking my time exploring every possible area/doing every interaction and killing every single enemy (but not 'innocents') in a high chaos no-detection playthrough. So far I've got through the first four missions without detection (and with a kill count usually in the 70s haha).

I kinda feel bad for those clueless guards.

Modifié par mr_afk, 13 octobre 2012 - 03:31 .

[sympathy4sarenreturns]

For those three thugs, I decided to be lethal. I opened the door, bent time, placed a few spring razor traps on the ground, and then blinked behind them. Two died almost instantly when I went back to real time from the traps, the other guy went hysterical and I came up and ended his dismay by cutting his throat wide open.

[brettc893]

Didn't think about the balcony, and while I take back what I said in regards to that mission, it reinforces one of the other things I take umbrage with; That Sleep Darts are the ONLY WAY to KO people in straight combat. Why not let me use a Sap or a Black Jack instead of the(Admittedly Really Cool) Sword? Sleep Darts aren't cheap.

[milena87]

mr_afk wrote...

I'm currently taking my time exploring every possible area/doing every interaction and killing every single enemy (but not 'innocents') in a high chaos no-detection playthrough. So far I've got through the first four missions without detection (and with a kill count usually in the 70s haha).

I kinda feel bad for those clueless guards.

I think I'll probably try something like that in my second playthrough. Right now I'm focusing on being stealthy and not killing anyone. I have to say that it's hard, mostly because I see so many (fun) ways to kill those poor guards...

[mr_afk]

milena87 wrote...

mr_afk wrote...

I'm currently taking my time exploring every possible area/doing every interaction and killing every single enemy (but not 'innocents') in a high chaos no-detection playthrough. So far I've got through the first four missions without detection (and with a kill count usually in the 70s haha).

I kinda feel bad for those clueless guards.

I think I'll probably try something like that in my second playthrough. Right now I'm focusing on being stealthy and not killing anyone. I have to say that it's hard, mostly because I see so many (fun) ways to kill those poor guards...

Haha I think I've got up to the part where chaos level starts to have a consequence so I'm going back to my non-lethal playthrough for now (I prefer happier endings). I'm going to miss blinking up and assassinating tall-boys though - it's ridiculously fun.

From what I've seen so far, stealth (whether or not you're detected during a mission) doesn't seem to make that much of a difference outside a challenge or roleplaying, so using a non-stealth approach a high chaos playthrough might be more fun (more direct fights/power usage etc).

A stealthy lethal approach is pretty similar to a non-lethal approach with the exception of assassinating enemies rather than choke-outs, using regular bolts rather than sleep darts, and been able to use explosions (whale oil/grenades etc) to take out groups. I think I'm also going to miss the drop assassinates though - I managed to pull one off from the top off a really high building which was pretty awesome (no fall damage).

Anyhow, this game is amazing!

[sympathy4sarenreturns]

The Outsider almost reminds me of a punk sometimes. But you sense his all-knowingness, and his absolute confidence.

[Addai]

Hello all, we returned from our vacation and I played a little bit tonight- just finished the prologue. Beautiful and atmospheric indeed. Art design > graphics.

I think it plays extremely fluidly, but then the last two games I played were Vampire Bloodlines and Thief II.

Definite Bioshock vibes, too.

[Eternal Phoenix]

@sympathy4sarenreturns

I don't suppose you can change the thread title to something more up-to-date now? Something like "Dishonored Discussion Thread" with a catchy sub-heading or something (as other game threads have). I mean you don't have to if you don't want to. It's your thread and all that....

(It's just that the title gives me the creeps now. Brrh!)

Modifié par Elton John is dead, 14 octobre 2012 - 06:25 .

[Fast Jimmy]

Alright, after a few more days of this under my belt and my enjoyment has much increased.

I'll go ahead and say that I would not like this game AT ALL if it did not have the magic component to it. Without Dark Sight, its nearly impossible to tell if you are in an enemy's line of sight. In addition, the lack of a "cover" option means you can be hiding behind a large object and still be seen, or hiding behind a pole at the right angle and remain invisible. The stealth mechanics could be done MUCH better. Also, there are plenty of upgrades to get more capacity and more weapons and there are plenty of spells that amplify your killing power... but then you don't get the blueprints for the "Silent Boots" upgrade until right before the 4th mission? To me, that should have been standard.

I've decided to ditch a stealth playthrough pretty early on, as I'm not the type of player who enjoys dying sixteen times just to find the magic pathway that lets me skip all of the guards. A "killing everyone" playthrough is, surprisingly, pretty easy (I've been playing on Hard difficulty). Guards never look up, so a high viewpoint, the zoom upgrade, the capacity upgrades for bolts and guns are a recipe to take out every guard in a square without breaking a sweat. I'd highly recommend anyone playing the game for the first time to take this type of playthrough.

To give some background, I've played many games with stealth mechanics before: the Splinter Cell games, Thief 1 & 2, DE:HR and I've played them on Hard or Very Hard difficulty (I recently beat DE:HR on "Give Me Deus Ex!" and got the Ghost achievement on nearly every board). So I don't feel its a lack of skill with stealth games, but more a clunky, unbalanced stealth feature that gets in the way.

Ironically enough, I'm looking forward to a second playthrough of the game to get the Mostly Flesh And Steel and the Shadow Achievements, which will require a full stealth playthrough with no powers. Now that I've bulldozed most of the game on Hard, I have a better idea of how they expected a Stealth playthrough to work, so I'm going to drop the difficulty down to Easy and take a stab at it (pun sort of intended).

Mechanics aside, the story is a bit "meh" and the characters are pretty cookie cutter. The most interesting ones are either crazy or evil, tbh. Anyone you meet at your base is pretty flat and boring. I saw a lot of the "twists" in the plot from miles away (such as the Heart, where the plague came from and other things) and Corvo has maybe a dozen dialogue options the entire game (excluding shops and the ferryman). The game does a good job of creating lore through books, notes and audio recordings (similar to Fallout) but the game still felt very hollow to me.

Overall, I'd say if you love games like Deus Ex: Human Revolution and don't mind sitting backseat to a story, then give this a whirl. If you aren't sucked in, at least wait until your first mission after prison where you start getting spells and give it a whirl. And don't get involved in any close-quarters combat, its pretty much a one-way ticket to frustration, death and reloads.

Thanks for reading, if anyone bothered to look at this patched-together review.

[slimgrin]

Addai67 wrote...

Hello all, we returned from our vacation and I played a little bit tonight- just finished the prologue. Beautiful and atmospheric indeed. Art design > graphics.

I think it plays extremely fluidly, but then the last two games I played were Vampire Bloodlines and Thief II.

Definite Bioshock vibes, too.

It's one of the better FP games I've played regarding controls. The camera movement feels like a head attatched to a body rather than some static thing suspended in the air. The lean mechanic is responsive and touch senstitive. And so far no awkward platforming. I personally think the best way to play this game is to turn off all assists, except maybe the heart finder thingie.

Modifié par slimgrin, 14 octobre 2012 - 02:15 .

[sympathy4sarenreturns]

Yeah Slimgrin, me and you are doing similar playthroughs in that regard. Playing on hard with no assist or markers. It's quite a challenge. The Heart in a lot of ways is eerie....just because it kind of feels random but the concept itself is fascinating and occultish. The Occult is playing a big role...coming across an Outsider shrine of sorts by an average citizen with a rune on it and a corpse of the person succombed to the plague next to it...with a journal of how they were excited to start a new life in a new city with a new job, and seeing step by step in entries how the artifact took over their mind and made them forget those goals, culminating in worshipping this thing like the ring of power and being now a fly infested (and thus maggot infested) heap in a corner is pretty dark.

Elton John...I can't change the thread name...anyways it is neat seeing it how it was during this game's initial small info.

[Cyberarmy]

Granny Rags voiced by Susan Sarandon, she did a great job as usual.

Just finished game without kiiling anybody and getting caught. 2 times i need to replay a mission due to game "said" i killed somebody?
Nevertheless great game. If i can find time in this game mousson im gonna replay it with full bloodshed.

[Addai]

I'm only skimming replies in case of spoilers.

About halfway or less through the first mission and loving it. It's so engrossing and everything is so smooth that it doesn't feel like work to play, though I've had a couple Blink mishaps- definitely going to upgrade so I can get to the hard places. I've had objective helps on but am going to turn them off now.  An open world player doesn't need them because you're going to explore everywhere anyway.  IMO open world and RPG players will get the most out of this game because it rewards exploration and there is a lot of codex and world story.

I'm trying to be stealthy though I have killed a couple guards and thugs. Stealth is harder than in Thief because there are fewer dark shadows, but you also have more options like sleep darts.  I keep forgetting I have those. Enemy AI is pretty good, no twinking allowed.

Modifié par Addai67, 14 octobre 2012 - 08:42 .

[FedericoV]

Looking at your first reaction, I guess I know what I'll be playing in november once I've finished my Ultima V re-play.

[TobiTobsen]

Ha! Just finished the game! What an awesome ride. The last two hours were pure supressed rage against the endboss.

*Spoiler*



I still ask myself: Is Corvo Emilys father? At first I thought not, but Emilys "Daddy" drawing, the rumors the Admiral heard and wrote down in his journal and the fact that Corvo and the Empress, imho, definitely had a "more than just a bodyguard" vibe going on are slowly changing my opinion.

Modifié par TobiTobsen, 14 octobre 2012 - 11:58 .

[brettc893]

So, I've started up again, really trying to get into it, and I have to really ask; When does the Amazing, Incredible GOTY Stuff begin? I honestly would like to know, preferably from someone who isn't in the "Bethesda Games Are All Flawless Masterpieces And Never Overrated In The Slightest" mindset and can provide some objectivity.

I'm far into the 2nd Mission and this game has gone from alright to down right boring. When does it get good?

[Addai]

brettc893 wrote...

So, I've started up again, really trying to get into it, and I have to really ask; When does the Amazing, Incredible GOTY Stuff begin? I honestly would like to know, preferably from someone who isn't in the "Bethesda Games Are All Flawless Masterpieces And Never Overrated In The Slightest" mindset and can provide some objectivity.

I'm far into the 2nd Mission and this game has gone from alright to down right boring. When does it get good?

Can you cut down on the condescension a notch?  You might get a better response if you do.

It's not a Bethesda game as far as I'm concerned- feels very different than Fallout or Elder Scrolls.

As for "when it gets good," can't tell you since I've been absorbed from minute one.  The game just may not be for you.  There are a lot of games I don't consider for me, without thinking they're bad games or overhyped.

Just finished the first mission- 8 hours for me, including the prologue.  Definitely not achieving a perfect game but I'll worry about gameplay challenges later.

Modifié par Addai67, 15 octobre 2012 - 01:11 .

[brettc893]

If I didn't put it like that, more then likely the response would have been something along the lines of, "This game is too deep for you, go Back to COD," as has happened to myself and many more countless times. It is not my fault that that is what I have been conditioned to expect, but if you take offense, I apologize.

I actually have been able to start liking it more, as Fast Jimmy has, but there is one thing that still irks me, and it's not major; This Game wants to be the next Bioshock so badly, it's staggering. You can say things like it's more akin to Thief or Deus Ex, but let's get real, those aren't what anyone thinks about while playing. Not a complaint, just an observation.

[Addai]

Yes as I said upthread, it's got definite Bioshock vibes but since the devs cite that as inspiration and some of them (level designers) worked on Bioshock 2, that's hardly news. There are definite Thief things, too. I haven't played Thief Deadly Shadows yet but since that is an open-city game I can imagine it feels similar. The guards' chatter and choke-holding them is like Thief, also the story has some similar themes.

I don't think the devs were shooting for startling originality, though some previewers have talked about that, I think more based on the art style than anything else.  Arkane just said that they love those kind of games and there aren't enough of them, so they made the kind of game they want to play.

Modifié par Addai67, 15 octobre 2012 - 02:01 .

[sympathy4sarenreturns]

He's into X-Com...a game I couldn't give a 'rats' ass about. Oh no, alien invasion #4827. No need to defend, Addai. Everyone has different tastes. I know mine certainly isnt X-Com.

Modifié par sympathy4sarenreturns, 15 octobre 2012 - 02:11 .

[Addai]

sympathy4sarenreturns wrote...
Elton John...I can't change the thread name...anyways it is neat seeing it how it was during this game's initial small info.

You should be able to change it if you go to your original post, there it should say "edit topic" instead of "edit post."  Not that I really care.

As for XCOM, like I said- different games for different folks.  The other half of our gaming household is getting that and he's excited for it.  I played the demo and was bored, but maybe eventually I'll try it again.  It's gotten great reviews, too.  The fact that there are good games out there, lots of options, can only be a good thing.

Modifié par Addai67, 15 octobre 2012 - 02:07 .